Heleadethme

19 hours ago, LearningToLetGo said:

The only alternative is a general strike. Truckers need to stop driving. Farmers need to stop taking crops to market. Tradesmen need to stop working. A coordinated strike in this manner will cripple Canada while also give Trudeau nothing to lash out against.

I hope the truckers and supporters know that they have already accomplished a lot by doing nothing more than "holding the line".  Even if they do nothing further but keep holding the line, this has already been a huge success from where I'm sitting....it just needs a little time to percolate down, so to speak.

This has felt like a move of God from the beginning.....and praying it will stay that way as long as we don't try to run on ahead of Him, but stay with Him in what HE is thankfully doing.  There are spiritual forces at work here that are much bigger than us mere mortals....without God we can do nothing.  The battle truly is the Lord's.

It might be worth considering that what gave Trudeau the excuses he needed to invoke the Emergencies Act were only the parts where the truckers went a little too far...blocking traffic on the Ambassador bridge and honking horns too much in Ottawa.   God can't bless lawlessness....... and such things also cause people to withdraw their support, thinking politically.   Anyway, that's my take.

I hope the protest keeps going, but in a way that does not break any laws or cause too much inconvenience so as to not give Trudeau any more excuses to do anything.....that way if he does, it will only continue to reflect all the more badly on him.  Don't let anger or ego entice things to escalate....just be patient and he will be soundly defeated in the next election.  We have to remember it's the peacefulness of this protest that has garnered so much support for it and against him politically.....need to keep that going.  Wise as serpents, harmless as doves.  To avenge is mine, says the Lord.

4 hours ago, WorthyNewsBot said:

British Prime Minister Boris Johnson said Monday that he is scrapping the last domestic coronavirus restrictions in England, including the requirement for people with COVID-19 to self-isolate, even as he acknowledged the potential for new and more deadly variants of the virus.

View the full article

Lockdowns and restrictions are not sustainable for the long term.  I think we all just need to acknowledge that living is now a little more risky than our generation is used to, and get on with life.  Older folks and other vulnerable people can hunker down and protect themselves as they wish, but let's allow the younger and healthy folks to get on with their lives.  Governments need to spend money on increasing health care capacities to deal with this new reality as well, instead of paying people to be out of work every time a 'wave' comes around.  That would be my advice anyway.

2 hours ago, teddyv said:

Not that I like or would vote for the Liberals, but the Cons have to find someone electable. PPC is just a joke.

I agree, it's a sad state of affairs.   And I'm thinking the Liberals must have been in the same boat to consider a drama teacher.  Conservatives couldn't possibly do worse, I'm hoping.   Heaven help us.

Have a hunch the next election is going to have the biggest turn-out in Canadian history.  Think he's helped himself to enough rope to thoroughly hang himself now.   God is exposing a lot.   Hope the media here is toast too....they are every bit as bad as state-run media in communist countries, without any exaggeration.  More people are realizing that too.

The rift and division that is happening here in Canada is similar to what is happening in the USA.....think we should brace ourselves for the possibility of both our countries dividing in two.  When God judged Babylon He divided it in two between the Medes and Persians.  When God judged Israel He diminished it as a nation and divided it in two.  And that would explain why we don't see America in prophecy as well, if this were to happen.

1 hour ago, Starise said:

Just because much of the bible is so eloquently tied to other portions of scripture does not demand that ALL portions will tie together. If it doesn't fit. Don't force it. That's  old mechanics advice that I think applies here. Here's another one- "Always use the right tool for the job". 

Amen.  Trying to force scriptures to fit is called "wresting the scriptures" in scripture.  Dispensationalism is always trying to do that.

1 hour ago, Alive said:

Rom. 8:1 (NAS20S)   Therefore there is now no condemnation at all for those who are in Christ Jesus. ² For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death. ³ For what the Law could not do,   weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, He condemned sin in the flesh, ⁴ so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. ⁵ For those who are in accord with the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who are in accord with the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. ⁶ For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace, ⁷ because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so, ⁸ and those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

Rom. 8:9 (NAS20S)   However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him. ¹⁰ If Christ is in you, though the body is dead because of sin, yet the spirit is alive because of righteousness. ¹¹ But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you.

Yes.  We can't overcome the flesh by the flesh.  It is by the Spirit.

The rest of the first sentence of Romans 8:1 is missing in the translation you quoted.  It should read:

"There is therefore no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh but after the spirit."

And this agrees with where it says elsewhere if we sow to the flesh we will reap destruction but if we sow to the spirit we will reap eternal life.

I find this is a subject that is hard for me to parse in my own mind, but I like the word that Steve Morrow brought....we live by EVERY word of God...some of His word reassures us when our hearts condemn us, while some of it warns us....we need it ALL and want to be careful we don't emphasize one at the expense of the other.

1 hour ago, Dennis1209 said:

I have had similar thoughts and a question? 

1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

A Christian goes a period of time without confessing their sins and asking forgiveness. The Lord calls him or her home suddenly. What is the status or results of those unconfessed sins? I assume they are still covered under the blood of the lamb. But I don't recall anywhere in the Bible that addresses that particular question?

We none us even know all our sins and shortcomings so it is hard to confess and repent of what we aren't yet aware of.  But I believe from scripture that willful sins are another matter.  If we keep on willfully sinning there is no more sacrifice.  But ultimately God is the judge...we sometimes are looking for a black and white answer when ultimately only God can judge everything that is going on in a person's life and heart, all the ins and outs of the individual.  What we can count on Him to do is to judge justly and righteously.  If we have any fear of God at all we wouldn't want to die in a state of having been deliberately sinning in some way without a care...it would be very scary for such a one, at least in most cases, in my opinion.  God is not mocked.

6 hours ago, steve morrow said:

EVERY  WORD  OF  GOD

 

2 CORINTHIANS 5:9  wherefore we labor that whether present or absent ---we may be accepted of  HIM---

--5:10-- for we must ---all appear before the judgement seat of CHRIST--- that we may receive the things done in  HIS  body according to that he hath done  ---whether it be good or bad---

 

PSALM 25:10  all the paths of  THE  LORD  are mercy and truth ---unto such as keep  HIS  covenant and  HIS  testimonies---

LUKE 1:50  and  HIS  mercy is on them that fear  HIM  from generation to generation

 

TITUS 2:11  for the grace of  GOD  hath appeared --to all men---

--2:12--  teaching us --- that denying ungodliness and worldly lusts  --- we should live soberly --righteously-- and godly -- in this present world 

 

PROVERBS 10:2  treasures of wickedness profit nothing  ---but righteousness delivereth from death---

PROVERBS 11:4  riches profit not in the day of wrath ---but righteousness delivereth from death 

PSALM 119:155  salvation is far from the wicked for they seek not thy statutes

 

LUKE 4:4  and  JESUS  answered him saying it is written that man shall not live by bread alone but by every word of  GOD

 

LOVING  THE  LORD  JESUS  CHRIST 

Amen.  EVERY word of His.

Wonderful insight about the two angels, praise the Lord.

Just some rambling thoughts this morning.  I agree that consciousness of sin can cause us to fall from grace.  Sometimes it's a battle to remain in grace when the accuser is trying to get a person to have their eyes on themselves instead of on Jesus, or people sometimes have trouble forgiving themselves for a sin or shortcoming and become discouraged.   Different people have different temperaments, some tend to be prone to too much self accusation while others tend to be too much the opposite, too cavalier.  So we need to take to heart all the admonitions and instructions and warnings in scripture and apply whichever we need at any given time.  There are those who use grace as a license to sin...I've come across some unfortunately.  And the word says if we judge ourselves we will not be judged with the world. 

It seems from scripture that there are two sides to this coin....it is possible that we can grieve the Holy Spirit.  We have the example of Israel grieving the Holy Spirit to such a degree that He (His glory, His Spirit) departed the temple, as in "Ichabod".  The wages of sin is death.  Sin separates us from God.  These are not truths to be taken likely.

But none of us are perfect....we all sin inadvertently and have shortcomings that we may not even be aware of in ourselves.  James wrote that "in many things we offend all".  This is why we're told to examine ourselves before partaking of the Lord's supper.  After having the bath we still need to wash our feet periodically.  We are to be seeking righteousness....David prayed "Search me and know me o God and see if there be any wicked way in me".  So it is part of what we are to do as Christians, in a spiritually healthy way.

Many, many people have learning disabilities.  (It is far more common than most might think.)  They may have certain disadvantages as far as life in this world goes, like more limited choices for employment, etc, but it doesn't mean God loves or values them any less than people who happen to have more intellectual ability.  Everyone has problems of one kind or another....we all have crosses to bear in this life, and for some that cross means not being an Einstein.    And someone could even have an ability or talent in some other way that they don't even know they have.

All of God's wonderful promises that are ours in Christ don't depend one tiny bit on how smart or not so smart anyone is.  What is far more important than a high IQ in God's sight is wisdom....because wisdom comes from Him.  The good news is that we can ask Him for it.....He promises to give it to those who ask.  So if anyone is having trouble figuring out what to do in any situation, we can ask God to help, ask Him what to do.  And if we're having trouble understanding anything in the bible, we can ask Him to help us with that too.

I hope you will find this encouraging dear friend:

1Co 1:25-31

Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men.

For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:

But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;

And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:

That no flesh should glory in his presence.

But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:

That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.

I'm not worthy to even speak of such things, but I believe it brings God glory when we behold His beauty and greatness in the scriptures.

Rom 11:33-36

O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!

For who hath known the mind of the Lord? or who hath been his counsellor?

Or who hath first given to him, and it shall be recompensed unto him again?

For OF him, and THROUGH him, and TO him, are all things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen.

It's not about us, everything is for Him, which is as it should be. 

20 hours ago, Alive said:

I am convinced that the 'eternal purpose' as mentioned by Paul is God desiring to pro-create. Simply--to share 'being' with a family.

To have that family work with Him for whatever is to come throughout eternity forward.

His wisdom will be manifested.

We have almost no idea what that is gonna look like--but we will.

I don't disagree, but maybe we are to think of the Eph. 3:9-11 passage as being God's over-arching purpose which everything else works toward...God wants to glorify Himself.  Not because He's some kind of narcissist but because it's right and just that He should be...He is so worthy and only He is worthy to be glorified.  His ways are perfect.  Man was created to serve and glorify Him.  Hard to put into words, but it's as though God being glorified has the effect of putting everything else to rights, in right order so to speak.  I think that passage shows us He has higher purposes than we see from our earthly perspective, it's not really about us ultimately.

Eph 3:9-11

And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:

To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,

According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord

8 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

And, if you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem!

Wow.  Uh-huh.  Yes, that's how we'll be seen....a thorn in the flesh to those who are looking for earthly peace and harmony ( kumbyah), and they will want to get rid of us.  Those who don't drink the koolaid of a strong delusion but remain faithful to the true gospel will be considered standing in the way of world peace and the so-called "co-exist" ideals.  Do you know that the Temple Institute's openly stated purpose of the brick and mortar Temple in Jerusalem is to unite all faiths into one?  Just like Nebby of old, you can keep whatever faith or religion you want as long as you also bow down to his image.  Tsk, tsk, what a sly fox is that devil, and there is nothing new under the sun.

8 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

Are you aware of the disjunct you and other Christians have that you have displayed in the above paragraph?

You start with... "Messianic prophecies [are] for Israel, brother," and conclude with the "apostate mostly Gentile church at the second coming of Christ." You do know that the Israeli "Messiah" = the mostly-Gentile church's "Christ," right? He is not only one and the same Person, but the terms are EXACTLY the same, except for the language behind the word!

Yes I do know, but perhaps you didn't understand my point.

People are looking to a future glorious utopian kingdom on earth, when that glorious kingdom already arrived and fulfilled those Messianic prophecies.  Jesus and His disciples went around preaching the kingdom is at hand....what kingdom?...the kingdom that was hugely prophesied through out the OT scriptures.  ie, the Messiah/Christ and His gospel.  Jesus said "If I by the finger of God cast out demons then the kingdom has come to you".  He also said to those who were expecting an earthly messiah ruling an earthly kingdom, that the kingdom comes not with careful observation, but is within/among you.

And we need to keep in mind that believing Gentiles are grafted into the "Israel of God", not "Israel after the flesh".   Rom. 9:6 says "they are not all Israel who are of Israel".  Elsewhere we are told a Jew is one who is a Jew inwardly.  Isaiah prophesied that though the number of Israelites be as the sand of the sea, only a remnant will be saved.

It is heavenly Zion/Jerusalem that matters to the believer whether Jew or Gentile.....the Jerusalem that is above is our mother.....we were 'born' in Zion, ie, heavenly Zion....here we have no continuing city.  Nobody who is born again is a citizen of earthly Israel, but a citizen of heaven passing through this world as a stranger in a strange land.  We are told to have our thoughts, our affections, our treasures ABOVE, not to be minding earthly things, and not to be entangled in earthly civil affairs, not even earthly Israel's.  Our mandate as the church is to rescue souls OUT of this world that lies in darkness, whatever country after the flesh they happen to live in, including Israel.

3 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

Shalom, t7t7.

Yes, that's what you've been saying, but you're leaving out HUGE CHUNKS of Scripture to form your simplistic "truth." If you were honest, you would leave these verses in their contexts and see the bigger picture ... but that would make your "support" more ineffective. So, you can't AFFORD to leave them in their contexts! Thus, you WRENCH them out of context to make them say what you WANT them to say! That's not only deceitful, but it is POOR logic!

That is ENTIRELY NOT what the Scriptures say! Haven't you even read them ONCE for what the authors and THE Author intended?! Or do you ALWAYS read them for how they can support your theories?

You're entirely SKIPPING A MAJOR STEP!

Let's look at each of these passages you quote and see them in their context:

Let's back this up a few verses and begin here:

2 Peter 3:3-13 (KJV)

3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, 4 And saying,

"Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation!"

5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: 6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: 7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

[THIS is when the "fire" will be! On the "day of judgment" AND "PERDITION" of ungodly men! "Perdition" means "eternal punishment" and is referring to the Lake of Fire in Revelation 20:11-15, accompanying the Great White Throne Judgment.]

8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. 9 The Lord (Yeshua`) is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

[THEN, we get to the verses you quoted:]

10 But the (1,000-year) day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. [at the END of the 1,000-year day!]
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for [anticipating] and hasting [hurrying] unto the coming of the (1,000-year) day of God, wherein (sometime in which) the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

It's not the Coming of the Lord that is "like a thief" for "every eye shall see Him!" BUT, the END of the 1,000-year Day will take people by surprise at how easily the freed dragon will be able to sway the disgruntled nations to attack the King of kings and His people! This will happen AFTER the 1,000-year lock-up of the dragon, known as "Satan." Furthermore, the 1,000-year-lock-up of the dragon doesn't begin until AFTER the Lord Yeshua` has returned and has begun His reign, which begins with the sounding of the 7th Trumpet. (See Revelation 11:15-19.)

And, He shall indeed make all things new; HOWEVER, He must reign first until all of His enemies are subdued:

(See 1 Corithians 15:20-28 and how it fits with Revelation 20-22.)

Yeshua` said nothing in this passage about coming with fire. His arrival comes with the sun and the moon being darkened like an eclipse, and the meteorites falling from the sky, and the weather patterns of the skies being shaken! At that time, the sign of the Son of man (Yeshua` the Messiah) shall appear, and all the families (tribes) of the Land ("earth") shall mourn (as prophesied in Zechariah 12:).

Zechariah 12:10-14 (KJV)

10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn. 11 In that day shall there be a great mourning in Jerusalem, as the mourning of Hadadrimmon in the valley of Megiddon. 12 And the land shall mourn, every family apart;
the family of the house of David apart, and their wives apart;
the family of the house of Nathan apart, and their wives apart; 
13 The family of the house of Levi apart, and their wives apart;
the family of Shimei apart, and their wives apart; 
14 All the families that remain, every family apart, and their wives apart.

It is from this passage of Scripture that Yeshua` quoted in Matthew 24:30 and John quoted in Revelation 1:7. In fact, John gave us a verbal link to Revelation 11:15-19. ("hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever"), the same phrase repeated in Revelation 5:13 ("Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever"). And, the words of the loud voices in the sky in Revelation 11:15 are "The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever."

Then, the 24 elders said in Revelation 11:17-18, "We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned. And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth (Land)."

The phrase "the nations were angry" further links in Psalm 2:1-12, which I mentioned before!

Again, look at this verse in its context:

1 Corinthians 3:10-15 (KJV)

10 According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon. 11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; 13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. 14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. 15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

This is not talking about the end of the age; this is talking about the Judgment Seat of the Messiah DURING the initial 1,000 years of His reign! Notice that BOTH parties, whether builders with durable works or builders with works that shall be burned up, are built upon the FOUNDATION which is Yeshua` the Messiah! (If you will appreciate the wording better,) both parties shall be saved, because both are built upon the SURE FOUNDATION!

Again, by not including other verses in the context, you've been deceptive with this quote! Let's expand it:

Luke 17:22-37 (KJV)

22 And he said unto the disciples,

"The days will come, when ye shall desire to see one of the days of the Son of man, and ye shall not see it. 23 And they shall say to you,

"'See here!'; or,

"'see there!':

"go not after them, nor follow them. 24 For as the lightning, that lighteneth out of the one part under heaven, shineth unto the other part under heaven; so shall also the Son of man be in his day. 25 But first must he suffer many things, and be rejected of this generation. 

26 "And as it was in the days of Noe (Noah), so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man. 27 They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all! 

28 "Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded; 29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all!

30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed. 31 In that day, he which shall be upon the housetop, and his stuff in the house, let him not come down to take it away: and he that is in the field, let him likewise not return back! 32 Remember Lot's wife! 33 Whosoever shall seek to save his life (by going back to pack) shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life (by just running) shall preserve it. 34 I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left. 35 Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left. 36 Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left."

37 And they answered and said unto him,

"Where, Lord?"

And he said unto them,

"Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together." [I.e., "wherever the carcass is, that's where the buzzards will gather."]

Thus, there were TWO examples prior to Yeshua` talking about the Son of man being revealed. (1) Noah and the Flood, and (2) Lot and the destruction of Sodom. Although the second was by fire and brimstone (sulfur) falling from the sky, the first was certainly NOT by fire! It was by WATER! Yeshua`s point was not to say they would face fire, but that their lives would SUDDENLY be in jeopardy!

 

This passage is talking about a more local vengeance! "Them that know not God" were the Gentile (non-Israeli) nations that will attack Israel, and "them that obey not the gospel of our Lord Yeshua` the Messiah," which refers to the "gospel" that He heralded! His "gospel" or "good news" was not about Himself dying, being buried, and resurrecting the third day; HIS "gospel" was the "gospel of the KINGDOM!" That is, He would announce the coming of God's Kingdom in which Yeshua` was the One Anointed to be God's King over Israel (the Messiah). His Gospel, according to Paul's letter to the Romans, was,

Joel 2:15-3:21 (KJV)

15 Blow the trumpet in Zion, sanctify a fast, call a solemn assembly: 16 Gather the people, sanctify the congregation, assemble the elders, gather the children, and those that suck the breasts: let the bridegroom go forth of his chamber, and the bride out of her closet. 17 Let the priests, the ministers of the LORD, weep between the porch and the altar, and let them say, Spare thy people, O LORD, and give not thine heritage to reproach, that the heathen should rule over them: wherefore should they say among the people,

"Where is their God?"

18 Then will the LORD be jealous for his land, and pity his people.

19 Yea, the LORD will answer and say unto his people,

"Behold, I will send you corn, and wine, and oil, and ye shall be satisfied therewith: and I will no more make you a reproach among the heathen: 20 But I will remove far off from you the northern army, and will drive him into a land barren and desolate, with his face toward the east sea, and his hinder part toward the utmost sea, and his stink shall come up, and his ill savour shall come up, because he hath done great things."

21 Fear not, O land; be glad and rejoice: for the LORD will do great things. 22 Be not afraid, ye beasts of the field: for the pastures of the wilderness do spring, for the tree beareth her fruit, the fig tree and the vine do yield their strength. 23 Be glad then, ye children of Zion, and rejoice in the LORD your God: for he hath given you the former rain moderately, and he will cause to come down for you the rain, the former rain, and the latter rain in the first month. 24 And the floors shall be full of wheat, and the fats shall overflow with wine and oil.

25 "And I will restore to you the years that the locust hath eaten, the cankerworm, and the caterpiller, and the palmerworm, my great army which I sent among you. 26 And ye shall eat in plenty, and be satisfied, and praise the name of the LORD your God, that hath dealt wondrously with you: and my people shall never be ashamed. 27 And ye shall know that I am in the midst of Israel, and that I am the LORD your God, and none else: and my people shall never be ashamed.

28 "And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions: 29 And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit. 30 And I will shew wonders in the heavens and in the earth, blood, and fire, and pillars of smoke. 31 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come.

32 "And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance," as the LORD hath said, "and in the remnant whom the LORD shall call. 1 For, behold, in those days, and in that time, when I shall bring again the captivity of Judah and Jerusalem, 2 I will also gather all nations, and will bring them down into the valley of Jehoshaphat, and will plead with them there for my people and for my heritage Israel, whom they have scattered among the nations, and parted my land. 3 And they have cast lots for my people; and have given a boy for an harlot, and sold a girl for wine, that they might drink.

4 "Yea, and what have ye to do with me, O Tyre, and Zidon, and all the coasts of Palestine? will ye render me a recompence? (LOL!) and if ye (try to) recompense me, swiftly and speedily will I return your recompence upon your OWN head; 5 Because ye have taken my silver and my gold, and have carried into your temples my goodly pleasant things: 6 The children also of Judah and the children of Jerusalem have ye sold unto the Grecians, that ye might remove them far from their border. 

7 "Behold, I will raise them out of the place whither ye have sold them, and will return your recompence upon your OWN head: 8 And I will sell YOUR sons and YOUR daughters into the hand of the children of Judah, and they shall sell them to the Sabeans, to a people far off:" for the LORD hath spoken it.

9 Proclaim ye this among the Gentiles;

"Prepare war, wake up the mighty men, let all the men of war draw near; let them come up: 10 Beat your plowshares into swords, and your pruninghooks into spears: let the weak say, 'I am strong!' 11 Assemble yourselves, and come, all ye heathen (non-Israeli nations), and gather yourselves together round about":

"thither cause thy mighty ones to come down, O LORD."

12 "Let the heathen be wakened, and come up to the valley of Jehoshaphat: for there will I sit to judge all the heathen round about. 13 Put ye in the sickle, for the harvest is ripe: come, get you down; for the press is full, the fats overflow; for their wickedness is great. 14 Multitudes, multitudes in the valley of decision (GOD'S decision on them; not their decision!): for the day of the LORD is near in the valley of decision!"

15 The sun and the moon shall be darkened, and the stars shall withdraw their shining.

16 The LORD also shall roar out of Zion, and utter his voice from Jerusalem; and the heavens and the earth shall shake: but the LORD will be the hope of his people, and the strength of the children of Israel.

17 "So shall ye know that I am the LORD your God dwelling in Zion, my holy mountain: then shall Jerusalem be holy, and there shall no strangers pass through her any more. 18 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the mountains shall drop down new wine, and the hills shall flow with milk, and all the rivers of Judah shall flow with waters, and a fountain shall come forth [out] of the house of the LORD, and shall water the valley of Shittim.

19 "Egypt shall be a desolation, and Edom shall be a desolate wilderness, for the violence against the children of Judah, because they have shed innocent blood in their land.

20 "But Judah shall dwell for ever, and Jerusalem from generation to generation. 21 For I will cleanse their blood that I have not cleansed: for the LORD dwelleth in Zion."

 

This is why you need to read the WHOLE prophecy before passing judgment on what you should believe. It's not just "<POOF!> The End." There's MUCH of the prophecies yet to fulfill!

Well, first, let's understand what "fullers' soap" is. A "fuller" is a launderer. Someone who professionally cleans clothes for others, like our dry cleaners shops. Fullers' soap is LYE SOAP! Its chemical name is "sodium hydroxide," and it's symbol is "NaOH." It's also called "caustic lye." It's a highly corrosive base that's easily dissolved in water. In high concentrations, it can "wash" the skin right off your hands!

Now, let's open up the context:

Malachi 3:1-6 (KJV)

1 "Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me: and the Lord (the Messiah), whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come," saith the LORD of hosts. 

2 "But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap: 3 And he shall sit as a refiner and purifier of silver: and he shall purify the sons of Levi, and purge them as gold and silver, that they may offer unto the LORD an offering in righteousness. 4 Then shall the offering of Judah and Jerusalem be pleasant unto the LORD, as in the days of old, and as in former years.

5 "And I will come near to you to judgment; and I will be a swift witness against the sorcerers, and against the adulterers, and against false swearers, and against those that oppress the hireling in his wages, the widow, and the fatherless, and that turn aside the stranger from his right, and fear not me," saith the LORD of hosts.

I'm reminded of an old saying: "You can have it fast, cheap, or good. Pick any two."

This means if you want something fast and good, it will cost you, because it won't be cheap.
If you're okay with it being fast and cheap, it will be an inferior product.
If you want something to be good and cheap, it will take time. It won't be done quickly.

Good judgment is THOROUGH! Therefore, Good judgment takes TIME!
Quick judgment is SPEEDY but CAREFUL!
Cheap judgment is neither.

The point is that Yeshua`, a wiser man than Solomon, will still be careful and take whatever time is necessary to be thorough in His judgments. Being a judge is one of the offices of a King of Israel, just as Solomon was. When Yeshua` sits upon His Throne, He will be judging matters of State as well as difficult cases that could not be decided by lesser judges, who will escalate a matter they can't handle.

That's all for tonight.

Messianic prophecies for Israel brother.....prophesying of the glorious gospel and Messiah who was to come and did come in the first century, as well as the wrath and judgment upon Jerusalem/Israel in 70 AD for apostasy and rejecting her Messiah.  Already fulfilled to Israel, but also I believe we should consider that some of it is also alluding at the same time to the judgment of the nations and apostate mostly Gentile church at the second coming of Christ.

If we apply a " to the Jew first then to the Gentile" principle.  And "One thing He has spoken, two things have I heard..." principle as well.  Israel being the ensample to the church....a prophetic type/shadow/pattern of how things will go for the church.  Consider whether, just as Israel was forewarned and foretold of the first coming, to be ready for Him, the mostly Gentile church and indeed the world of Gentiles is being forewarned and foretold by some of these same prophecies of the second coming of Christ, to be found faithful and ready for Him.  Speaking of two gatherings to Christ as it were, the first century gathering of the elect Jews, then the gathering of mostly Gentiles to forever be with the Lord.  And alluding to two judgments in one breath so to speak, first the judgment of Israel at His first coming, then the judgment of the mostly Gentile world at His second coming.

Rom 2:5-11

But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;

Who will render to every man according to his deeds:

To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,

Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;

But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:

For there is no respect of persons with God.

24 minutes ago, Starise said:

Good point. The leadership needs to determine the right actions when congregations become larger. More children means you need a better equipped Sunday school. Larger churches mean larger groups of people in the same age group. Dedicated youth ministry is required if you want to help minister to that age group. Adults need to be ministered to. Their ages can range from 25-95, so groups are created to deal with those different places in life to consider.

The home group in a larger church is a nice way to deal with fellowship since it helps members to make connections.

Space can certainly be an issue when a smaller church begins to grow. One church I attended was a beautiful church with enough room for a medium sized congregation, but there was nowhere to park. How are you going to get to a church if you can't find a place to park? That church was forever destined to be small because it is mostly walk ins.

My NATURAL tendency is to seek smaller gatherings. It has a lot to do with my personality type. I don't like large groups of people. I consider the social element to be secondary to ministering and being ministered to. I have felt more comfortable in smaller settings in the past. Not that I don't believe it's important to be in touch with other Christian brothers and sisters. Where do I end up? In a 400-500 congregation often up front helping in worship. That's out of my 'comfort zone', but it is where the Lord has seen fit to put me for now.

My church is small compared to the 3000 member church not 20 miles away.

I have seen the results of a disorganized smaller church. The place where people show up and just say 'whatever'. It isn't a good feeling for me, especially if I am supposed to be participating in some way. After having been in numerous under staffed churches that were poorly organized, I can say without reservation that organization, planning and very importantly HELP are the way to go lol.

Not only that, but I'm finding meeting other brothers and sisters in Christ is a very uplifting positive thing. Those numerous connections have been nothing but positive. Granted smaller churches can still be responsible and organized, but I have found the types of people who go to those types of churches are often low pressure individuals who have no interest in organizing anything. They like informal laid back church. The only problem with informal laid back church is it often doesn't spur us on to anything. We are never challenged and we might not be using our gifts.

Amen! Man made never works long term. It's like trying to keep a kite aloft when there is no wind.

There is a series of podcasts on Google called The Rise And Fall Of Mars Hill. These are free.

It sheds light on a church that grew very large very fast. It had some good well meaning people in it. The leader was narcissistic and became too focused on all of the wrong things. That church basically imploded.

I believe it's a good way to see where things can go wrong in a large congregation.

I see churches changing over time. The large church has never been in many parts of the world. Due to government lock downs and rules, I see more smaller groups and less larger congregations. Thankfully no one is bothering our church so far. We are growing. What the future holds, I can't say.

 

Flesh is always the culprit, and power certainly corrupts and feeds the flesh instead of starving it to death.  God's way of simplicity and sharing the power so to speak, in a more egalitarian way of doing things, helps to keep the flesh on a short leash by depriving it of 'opportunity'.

1 hour ago, truth7t7 said:

Millennialism is one of the greatest deceptions today, setting up for the coming (Man Of Sin/Antichrist) to be received as the Messiah returned

Many claim Jesus will literally return and rule "On This Earth" In A Millennium this being false, he warned his followers against this teaching, Jesus wont be found anywhere upon this earth as many claim

The Antichrist will be in Jerusalem, claiming to be Messiah Returned, "Beware"!

"Believe It Not" "Go Not Forth"

Matthew 24:23-27KJV
23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
25 Behold, I have told you before.
26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Revelation 13:13-14KJV
13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.

Revelation 19:20KJV
20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

Amen.  Jesus said His kingdom comes not with careful observation but is within/among us.  Heaven and earth will pass away but not His words....He's not going to change His mind.  He is ruling and reigning NOW by faith in this age and the devil is being loosed to deceive nations at the end of this age.

The Lord has been so gracious to rescue this dumb sheep out of a few different ditches I've stumbled into over the years, thankfully!  

6 minutes ago, truth7t7 said:

It's my belief that the future (Man Of Sin/Antichrist) will be a Jewish King/Ruler, it's my belief that the Roman Catholic Pope will be the future (False Prophet) my "Opinion"

Jesus Is The Lord

That is very possible in my opinion as well.  We will see how things play out.

This is why  I believe so much of the Jewish Roots movement (which I used to embrace) is a snare.  A lot of it is well meaning I'm sure, but the devil is a very crafty fellow and exploiting emotions to lead believers into something that is not of God.  Love and evangelize the Jews YES, but we are not to be unequally yoked with unbelievers and Jesus said if ye have not the Son ye have not the Father either.

We want to be sure we're leading Jews to their true Messiah who is not an earthly king, not being led by them to an earthly messiah.

1 minute ago, truth7t7 said:

I fully agree that Judaism and Rome are false religions, also the Church is in apostasy

However the whole, mystery Babylon is clearly described as (Great City) and is guilty of the (Prophets Blood)

Rome didnt exist to be guilty of this blood, only Jerusalem matches this (Great City)

In Love, Jesus Is The Lord

Rome has strong foundational ties with Jerusalem...Constantine and his mother...as well as that Rome owns a lot Jerusalem real estate in present day....and seems to be hungry for more.  Rome is also guilty of terrible persecutions of true believers since its inception down....I am sure there were true Christian prophets warning Constantine about the hybrid he was forming back then.  It might be that we can consider Rome and Jerusalem to be one and the same, in spirit.  They are both spewing false ecumenical doctrine of unity with all faiths in these days.  It's worth noting that Jerusalem bends over backwards for Rome, even forbidding Jews to be in certain 'holy' sites on days when Rome wants to be there.  I think this all bears watching and considering.

Except the LORD build the house they labour in vain that build it.  It's so important to remain in the simplicity of Christ rather than man-made versions of what He wants to create.  God is longsuffering and merciful, and will bear with us to some extent, He will sometimes be present and minister to individuals in various churches, just because He is merciful, but man cannot create life, only God can.  Everything that man creates is artificial and unable to beget life. 

We can always find justifications for what we do against His word, but if a congregation is too big to be able to obey the instructions and example of scripture, then apparently it must be time to form another congregation, not make a mega-church.

This is the mystery of Mystery Babylon I believe....that she represents the people of God in bed with the world (riding the beast), which created/es a sort of man-made false version of what God had made - Judaism - as well as, I believe we must not rule out that Israel is our ensample prophetically symbolic of the church....so perhaps we should consider whether it speaks and warns also of a false church in bed with the world.  It's very hard not to think of the Catholic institution and her daughter churches in that light, and interesting that the colours match Rome as does the picture of seven hills...as well as there are other parallels in which Rome and Jerusalem resemble each other.

Merchants and merchandising and trading in souls of men.  What does this remind us of?.....Jesus' indictment of Jerusalem's temple as being a house of merchandise as well as Paul warning of those false leaders in the church who would "make merchandise of you".   The harlot's merchants are all the false leaders who are peddling their wares of false doctrines and enjoying a lot of personal gain, in terms of status as well as $$$.  "Christianity" has become big business in the western world.

What I've gleaned from the scriptures is that we need to remain in the SIMPLICITY of Christ.  We do not see anything in the epistles of the apostles that indicates the church getting together to have a thing called "services".   But rather....God's house shall be called a house of prayer, and wherever two or three are gathered in His name there is Jesus in the midst of them.  SIMPLY gather to seek the Lord together and let Him orchestrate the proceedings by His Spirit as much as possible.   In scripture, we see prayer (which I believe should be No. 1) in the Father's house, we see hymn singing, we see praise, we see words being brought, we see revelations being shared, we see prophecies being given, we see people being healed, we see the hungry being fed and we see the Lord's supper for self-examination and renewing of His cleansing blood to us, since we "offend in many things all" (James)

 And I believe we need to have our minds renewed to be thinking in terms of Body ministry, not a one-man ministry.  Priesthood of all believers, not just one class of believer.  There is to be no schism in the Body.  That notion (Levite priests) was supposed to have passed away with the old covenant.  Spiritual gifts of various kinds and operations have been given to EVERYONE.  When you come together EVERYONE OF YOU HATH something to contribute from the Lord.   The bible says the Body edifies ITSELF but that only happens when the Body participates, not just one gift (pastor).  There should be more than one pastor/elder/overseer in most groups anyhow.  It isn't seminary school that qualifies pastors/elders, it is the LORD......whoever He has given that gift to....they can exercise their gift informally along with the rest of the Body exercising theirs....but they should be matured and seasoned and know the word of God well before taking up leadership responsibilities.  And the Body needs to be built up also through discipleship, not just talking at folks....as Jesus was our example.

Ancient Jewish synagogues had the right idea I think.....from what I heard they formed their seating in a circle or semi-circle and whoever's turn it was to speak or read etc, SIMPLY stood up to do.  No going up onto a "stage" to put on a performance or dominate the whole shebang.  We're not supposed to be respecter's of persons and reserve special seats for anyone, yet this is done as a matter of routine in most churches.  It's amazing how we can be so blind to blatantly do what scripture explicitly says not to, but that often happens since we are in a spiritual war.

But change needs to happen from the inside out...to begin with we need to have our minds renewed to understand what the bible is showing about this, to understand the will of the Lord and how He wants to do things.  And the more the Holy Spirit is present without being quenched, the more He will do things according to His will.  Flesh is always what gets in His way...the priests bear rule by THEIR means and the PEOPLE love to have it so......the worldly ways of the flesh and how corporations and earthly kingdoms do things.  But the more our flesh is crucified the more we will get out of His way and let Him be Head of His Body.   In an ideal world, which we don't often see.  Paul did what he could to keep the early church on track, a constant battle....but he did say that things would go downhill after he departed.  The early church had "much grace", but the reality is that we only seem to see much grace in various pockets of the church from time to time ever since.  But I believe a change in mindset to conform more to scripture would be a good start at least.