Gemstone777

I want to thank you all for your thoughts and insights.  As I said before this post was just so I could make three posts to get into chat, lol.  It wasn't meant to be a place of debate, but a loving, heartfelt discussion of how to process these thing that break my heart, and I believe that Christ disapproves of because of instructions in His Word.

 I have too many friends/family that have gotten out of church because of grave wounds, not petty stuff.  Some are bitter, and yes they are wrong and need to heal, but sometimes depending on the level of hurt/offense it takes time.  Being harsh with people that are already wounded won't help them to heal, it will just further show them lack of genuine concern, and they will perceive it as unloving.   This is not coming from a place of complaint, but observation of seeing others wounded and wronged, and saying that it's not how God says it should be.  Jesus took the plight of the lowly, the sinner, and He was not self righteous.  I don't think I'm better than anyone, and stuff like this makes me see how I don't want to hurt anyone and keep them away from Christ, or growing in Christ. I think we all should desire unity, love, and peace in the body, and work towards creating that environment.  Sure, sometimes things have to be confronted that are wrong, and people aren't going to receive that well.  

A few of you have asked for examples of how churches/Christians have wounded other believers/seekers.  I have many, but these are some that came to mind.  After I share these, I probably won't be commenting on every post, as I feel I've already said my perception, interpretation, and ideas on this situation.  I wish you all well on your journey with the Lord.  Let us strive to love the Lord and others!   

* A friend from a previous employer that is not a Christian that I had invited to church said that he wouldn't come.  When I asked him why, he told me he that he was wounded by a church leader.  He went on to share his story of how when he was a little boy he went to church.  He came from a broken home, and his mom had kids by different men.  There was a male leader in the church that took an interest in him and sort of was a mentor.  There was a father/son outing coming up, and his dad was not in his life.  He overheard one of the pastors and his mentor in the church talking.  The pastor said to my friend's mentor, "Why don't you take the boy you have been mentoring (my friend) to the father/son outing?"  His mentor friend said, "Are you kidding me!  That little "bastard!"  Then both the pastor and his mentor began laughing.  After that he said he wouldn't set foot in church again, and he hasn't.  He remains an unbeliever to this day.

* A brother in Christ who was single (20s/never married) at the time was serving as a youth leader in his church.  He was working with the males since he was a male.  He would play basketball with them, watch football games, go out to lunch, help them with school, and also disciple/mentor them.  He had no complaints from children or their parents, and was influencing the kids in a Christ-like way.  Then, the music pastor felt convicted to share with my friend something that was said because his boys were involved in the ministry and he knew my friend's character was being dragged through the mud unjustly.  He disclosed to my friend that the Senior Pastor had said that he had an unhealthy interest in boys because he was spending so much of his time pouring into them, and accused him of homosexual tendency/desires that were not there and untrue.  That pastor damaged my friend's character unjustly by wrongful use of his position of power/influence and the use of his tongue to harm my friend's walk.  My friend was not as strong in his faith as he is now, and he left the church and said, "If this is what Christianity is, I don't want any part of it!"  He left the church for 5 years wounded before God drew him back and used another pastor's love and kindness to help him heal.  Think of what a servant of the Lord could have done in that 5 years!  Thankfully, God helped him to heal.  He went on to be a pastor himself and now he knows how not to treat people because of what he went through.

*A single female friend of mine had a divorced guy from her church that played in the worship band over to help fix something in her home.  After he had completed the project they were sitting on her couch talking and she thanked him for helping her.  He began to kiss her against her will and unzip her pants.  She screamed, yelled, and tried to fight him off and he finally got off of her and left.  She felt if she hadn't screamed loud and pushed/kicked him off of her, he would have raped her.  When she asked me what she should do (because of the nature of the situation) I felt that she needed to talk with the pastor and get him involved, maybe even criminal charges needed to be considered.  The Senior Pastor of her church said, "We don't use the R (for rape) word around here.  You need to drop this."  He was more concerned about the image of his church then he was about my friend's well being and that she was almost a victim of rape.  Because she respected the pastor's authority, she never addressed the situation.  It made it hard for her to trust men after that.  Thankfully, she is still serving the Lord and many years after this incident she did marry.  

*An elderly female friend that's a widow was a big servant in her church.  She had 2 husbands die, one of her children was hit by a car and killed at a young age, and she struggled with depression because of those things.  She is a very caring, loving, serving, giving, and sensitive person.  Some of the other elderly women in the church did not like the attention that she got because people liked her because of how she served the Lord.  They started gossiping about her, damaging her character, and making others turn against her.  My friend went to the pastor for counseling for her depression/thoughts of suicide.  He told other people in the church (including some of these women) in the name of " requested prayer" that she was, "A sad soul, needing help, and that she wasn't right in the head."  He basically gave her enemies fuel to further harm her character and attack her instead of loving her and getting her the help she needed.  The church leadership had a meeting to let both sides confront one another to allegedly squash the issue.  When they had the meeting only the other ladies were allowed to bring people for their side, and she was left alone to defend herself.  She was attacked and belittled in the meeting.  Due to this, she and others left their church, a mild church split, and there are grave wounds and disunity in the Universal body of believers.  She is currently out of church because of how she was harmed, and is still depressed.

*When my husband pastored in the inner city there was a very poor disabled lady that would come to church.  She was often unbathed, unkept, and she lived in a home that in some places would be condemned/torn down.  Some of the elders, their wives, and suburbanite church people would not shake her hand or talk to her.  They would also sometimes give looks of disgust and would not approach her.  She sat beside me every week and would give her dollar each week, which for her was sacrificial.  She did have an odor to her that was unpleasant, but nowhere in the Bible does is say that we aren't to love people that smell badly.  This lack of love would keep some out of church.  Last I knew after we left that ministry, she is no longer in church.  

I could come up with several more, but these are some of the observations that I've seen as to why people have been deeply hurt which can hinder their growth or make them not want to be a Christian at all.  I desire for people to know the love, mercy, and grace of Christ.  They will not hear the words if our actions as Christians are not meeting the message of love, mercy, and grace.  I know God is a just God, and that doesn't mean we don't call sin what it is, but there must be a balance in all things in order for us to accomplish what He has put before us to do.    

Matthew 5:7 Blessed are the merciful for they shall receive mercy.

James 2:13 There will be no mercy for those who have not shown mercy to others.  But if you have been merciful, God will be merciful when He judges you.   

John 13:34-35 "A new command I give you: Love one another.  As I have loved you, so you must love one another.  By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another."  

Love always in Christ, Gem

9 minutes ago, 4LdKHVCzRDj2 said:

I will tell you about my experience:

I am what people call a "cold" individual, I do not talk much, I do not have friends, I stay alone most of the time, when people talk to me I do not feel to smile, I just feel to hear and answer with a serious face. And I do that most of the time, but I try to force a smile when the other person I am talking to is smiling so they don't think I am emotionless.

 

I am not the type of person who say many kind words, especially in person. I do not know exactly why, I just don't feel comfortable and natural on my part.

But I really care for the people I talk to. I just do not make this so evident when talking to them, apparently.

Every time I talk to someone - and this is not common to happen in my daily life - I think about my interaction with that person, and keep evaluating if I was kind enough or if the person will have a wrong impression of me; if they will think I am rude, ignorant, unloving, cold, etc.

It is hard for me, because I feel I did the best I could. And still it could not be enough.

 

I know I am not cold, but I know many people think I am because they just judge by what they have experienced for a moment. They do not really know me.

 

I am not emotionless, I am not cold. Maybe you are just not seeing it.

I do not hate you. I hope you understand.

Hi 4LdKHVCzRDj2!  

I appreciate you sharing your experience!  It's a good reminder that we all have different personalities, giftings, etc.  Although it could be taken that you are unloving by those actions, I don't think those are the unloving actions/words of which I am mainly speaking.  I'm talking about deep wounds.  I guess unloving could be smaller things, but in my initial post I was thinking more along the lines of bigger offenses.  

I have lots of friends that are shy, wallflowers, and introverted.  I get along with them great, and my outgoing nature and desire to include everyone and make no one feel left out seems to click well.  You wanna know a secret?  Some extroverts/social butterflies feel awkward to and they're winging it, lol.

I do think it's good to try and let your actions meet your words, so if you're happy smile, if your sad frown/cry, as it helps others to know you better.  Please don't feel as if you're not good enough!  We all have quarks, make mistakes, and we are all sinners.  

Yes, that's one of the key things I've brought up in my posts....that people don't know each other.  The reasons they don't can vary...shyness, lack of trust, lack of time, etc.  Just as our relationship with Christ is the ultimate model we are to desire intimacy with Him.  I also believe that our relationships should be authentic and intimate.  It's hard to get that though, I know.

I see kindness, gentleness, and authenticity in your post, and I'm appreciative of that.  Thanks for sharing what was on your heart and mind!  

Always, ~ Gem

16 minutes ago, warrior12 said:

Just saw your post as i was browsing and thought i would give a quick feedback.  Take all the time and yes reading through post can be time consuming especially if you don't want to misquote ect.   As i said to one other earlier on in this thread, i may have not chosen the proper word as resentment, but rather should have used something like "disappointed".     Below was my earlier reply. 

"I think that person can speak for themselves in a reply of their own.  The word resentment, may not have been appropriate in the context that i used it, but it was not meant as the way you took it.  I was merely seeking for an example to see what actions Christians carry out, do or perform that makes them want to "pull away" as the OP has said.  You used the meaning as in your quote, but words do have multiple meaning as below.   So then i choose another one from below.   dissastisfaction or discontent.   How's that, hope it satisfies you and if not, don't hesitate, let me know. "

Thanks for your patience!  Even though I can be a fast typist, I'm trying to not say things that can be misconstrued.  This type of communication is not as effective as face to face because you can't see body language, hear voice inflection, etc., but it's what we got so I'll take it!  I don't want to provoke, hurt, or anger anyone, so I'm trying to be as thoughtful as I can in my word choices.  Some of my word choices as I read over them I thought hmmm, somebody might not understand what I'm saying and take that the wrong way, lol.  

Yes, "disappointed" I think would fit there better. Thanks for giving clarity there.  I try to give people the benefit of the doubt cause I need it too!   I was hoping to get to the examples tonight, but that might have to wait til tomorrow or the next day since it's the weekend.  We shall see.  

Thanks for participating in the post!  

~ Gem

On 7/24/2017 at 8:49 AM, fixerupper said:

There is no resentment in this persons reply.  I'm surprised you can't tell how this person feels without prodding at their 'resentment.'

"I'm a social, outgoing person.  I used to find it easier to make friends.  I'm finding it harder to find loyal, loving, genuine friendships as I get older. This is making me want to pull away from others and become a hermit.  I know God has called all of us to love others, and I do, but I want to love them from a distance.  I see the ugliness in the world, and it makes my heart sad.  I don't see how truly loving believers can treat people the way they sometimes do.  I want to continue to love others, but I don't want to allow others to hurt me, or watch them hurt others.  Some wisdom, Scriptures, and prayers would be most helpful, thanks!"

__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Maybe Christians on the forum could use better words to express themselves.  

RESENTMENT...

bitter indignation at having been treated unfairly.

I feel the very same way this person does.  I'm older and very tired of Christians PERIOD!  READ what the person SAID!  You don't need any more of an explanation!  

1.   I'm finding it harder to find loyal, loving, genuine friendships as I get older.

2.  This is making me want to pull away from others and become a hermit.

3.  I know God has called all of us to love others, and I do, but I want to love them from a distance.

4.  I see the ugliness in the world, and it makes my heart sad

5.  I don't see how truly loving believers can treat people the way they sometimes do.  I want to continue to love others, but I don't want to allow others to hurt me, or watch them hurt others.

I'm in the same situation.  I've distanced myself from CHRISTIANS because they're NO GOOD! They do NOTHING for my walk with Christ.  All they ever do is undermine it.  They have NOTHING good to say about ME/people.  They are even more difficult to become friends wih than unbelievers.  I like being ALONE away from their self-righteous, holier than thou, "we don't make mistakes" attitude.  I don't like being friends with Christians because they impose their convictions on everyone else and then condemn you for believing different. I have trouble loving Christians even from a distance.  I've been crapped on so many times by PASTORS (which I use to be) that I'm about ready to dump the entire religion of Christianity with all the messed up people in it.  I see ugliness in the world too.  Much of it in the followers of Jesus Christ, and it makes me sad that I have to get away from such people to maintain my 'sobriety.' And most of all...

When I read some of the wonderful, loving replies by people here I get sick to my stomach.  On one reply they're so sweet and they talk about God's love and compassion  Then on another, usually because their beliefs have been seriously challenged or opposed, they say all sorts of derogatory things about you and even condemn people. 

Christianity, It's just not what it use to be even 30-40 years ago.

Fixerupper,

Thank you for your understanding of my original post.  I agree resentment wasn't a good word choice for them to use, but I myself could have used some better word choices in some of my replies.  I wasn't expecting the numerous responses that I received, and I've been trying to reply as quickly as possible.   

I don't have bitterness in my heart towards the people that are unloving, it just makes me sad to see.  I don't think I can ever say it's okay for others or myself to be treated wrongly, or for me to treat someone wrongly.  Now can I forgive others, sure...I should extend mercy, grace, and forgiveness because it's been extended to me by God even if the people don't. 

I have friends and family that have pulled away from the church because of the deep hurts they have experienced.  It breaks my heart to see some out of fellowship in the body, and some non-believers not wanting to know Christ because of the examples they say some Christians are.  Unfortunately, I've seen it too and even been on the receiving end before.  I'm sorry to hear that you've been hurt too and seen others hurt.  

I agree with you that people need to be more edifying and uplifting as Christians.  Sometimes there is so much "self" focus in our world that it pours into our churches.  

My father who's retired used to be a Youth Pastor, and my husband was a Senior Pastor, but is now in the corporate world.  He still fills in teaching/preaching at our church so he's able to use his gifting.  We too have experienced a lot of persecution.  One of the verses that's stuck with me lately is Matthew 5:11-12 Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.  Rejoice, and be exceedingly glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.  

Some of the loving replies are genuine, not everyone is unloving.  We all make mistakes, and God keeps reminding me to be merciful to others even when they are not to me.  It is so hard to do and requires reliance upon Him!

By the way off topic, Is your name based on the house improvement show, Fixer Upper?  I like that show, that's why I asked!  I will pray that God heals your heart, and feel free to pray for me if you want!  Thanks for sharing your genuine feelings!

Love in Christ, Gem

On 7/24/2017 at 7:14 AM, warrior12 said:

Could you give one practical example of how believers treat people as to your statement?.     Just want to see the kind of resentment you are speaking about .

I will give some examples hopefully soon.  I'm trying to go through all the posts, but I can't keep up with you all!   There is no resentment, it's more a hurting of the heart (sad to see) for the way our world is, the lack of authentic, Christ-like love.

On 7/20/2017 at 8:25 PM, notsolostsoul said:

Some times you just need rest. You need to replenish yourself. There is nothing wrong with that. Some times we are directed to Be Still. It's not running away or being a hermit.

Some times its for our own protection. So we don't fall or stumble and get caught up in the chaos. We just have to learn a balance.

Feeling not of this world I can relate, but as you said

On 7/20/2017 at 8:25 AM, gemstone777 said:

our relationship with the Father/Jesus/Holy Spirit is priority,  

So he will protect that, by pulling you away, healing your heart, suiting you up, and reminding you that you are his and then he'll send you back out their, to do your part.

TO DO YOUR PART. some times we want to do more. He just needs us to DO OUR PART.

Trust that he has the rest. He is God. Oh and he will send you what you need when it is needed.

You will recognize that true fellowship. It isn't necessarily a friend as MAN sees a friend, but it is a friend in that purpose of God.

Nosolostsoul, Thanks for this reminder of rest!  Willa (I believe,) also said about time of rest, and I am going to ask the Lord if that is what I need.  Sometimes when things are repeated, I look to see if God is speaking to me through others.  

I also think it's hard to, "be still," in this world.  What exactly does that look like?  Have we as a society forgot how to rest?  Things I ponder in my head.  

You're right, the workers are few, and sometimes we do more than He even asks.  I know our works don't save us, only the redeeming blood of Jesus Christ, but I do think He sometimes asks a lot of us because few are willing.

I've never found a friend like Jesus!   Thanks for sharing your thoughts!

~ Gem

On 7/20/2017 at 7:42 PM, Reinitin said:

all the christians i know are loving.

Reinitin, thanks for sharing your personal experience. I'm genuinely happy that you feel loved!   As I'm reading the posts in this thread, I'm reminded that everyone has different experiences.  I've been observing both extremes (loving vs unloving) and everywhere in between.  If all the genuine Christians you know are loving, than that is a blessing, and something all Christians can aspire to because that is what God calls us to do, LOVE!  

Unfortunately, mine and many others haven't had that experience.  The more one gets involved in a church or ministry, sometimes the things that are not as they should be can be seen.  The more you are sold out for the Lord, sometimes the more persecution comes.  Also, there are wolves in the midst of the sheep, so we have to be careful for some will stir up trouble and evil.  

Many blessings to you!  ~ Gem

6 minutes ago, Steve_K said:

Because while we are Christians, we are still sinners.

That's true!  We must extend mercy because we also need and want it.

On 7/20/2017 at 8:02 AM, Neighbor said:

Great thread! Many a honest plead of the situation many feel they are in today.

 I too have those "feelings", and it is hard to find fellowship as I age evermore.  Yet fellowship is there, and caring saints in Christ do pray for me by name near daily! I know of the prayers for my well being, even in the lonelier of times.

Seems to me the Psalmists have that common trait too. It shows in their plea to God  out of a sense of being alone and separated- a loneliness of even soul at times.

The fellowship  with saints, it seems superficial and perhaps it is , except when saints do gather specifically for the protection of accountability, one with another in prayer groups. That is perhaps where real friendship is to be found, at least the most intense of fellowship and lifting may be therein.

Much of our local body of Christ's men get up at five on Friday's to then be ready to read pray, and meet at six AM. Our women gather  just a little later in the morning on Thursdays for similar  gathering and bonding. Tuesdays there is evening prayer gathering for  missionaries. And Sundays prior to services there is gathering for prayer for the presenters of information at services. There are  a few additional  gatherings but  the idea has been presented- I suggest these are the places of making strong friendships, not at the meet and greet handshaking sessions before a worship service, nor after services as people leave to go fill their bellies.

The volunteer projects those sign up sheets tell of, they too are the opportunities to  meet fellow saints and become close friends. None the less, loneliness will creep in come the day I slack off being part of active faith's errands. So, I suggest that when  the feeling of what the... happens it is time for me  personally to take it up a notch  get very active in service  as a soldier of Christ Jesus by doing some separate project some special interest thing that does fit into service to our creator. For it is His company  that I need most. Perhaps it is the same for others too.

Neighbor, I'm glad you could share your personal experience here.  I'm also glad you see a real problem here.  We surely can not base everything on our feelings, or they would lead us astray.  However, when our views are aligned with God's that's a good thing.  

I too have some of those precious people in my life, those rare gems it seems that are hard to find.  I keep them very close and cherish those relationships.  They are God sent to help me go this life so I don't have to do it fully alone.  I know all we truly need is Jesus, but blessings of true friendship I believe are His gifts to us in this world.  

You're right about the Psalmists.  That's a good point.  I'm also reminded of Jeremiah (The Weeping Prophet,) and Job when he lost everything.  They poured out their heart before God, and in their loneliness is where they became even more intimate with God.  

Accountability partner is a wonderful thing.  True community can be found in small groups, Bible studies, prayer groups, etc., but that doesn't always happen.  Sometimes those groups only scratch the surface too.  They are very good real solutions, and I appreciate them!

One can still be lonely in serving Christ.  Again I say if you are always pouring into others and not having your pitcher replenished, you can reach burnout.  

Christ is the answer for everything!  He is our best friend, or should be!  He fills the loneliness that others can't fill!  Basically, God is good!  I really enjoyed reading your post!  I wish you many blessings!

On 7/20/2017 at 1:01 AM, BK1110 said:

Miss Muffet has the right of it, in my eyes. And I was one of them, for many years, raised in a Christian home, well-trained and read, too, and church every week...but it was not my faith, and so there was not love in my heart. There was pride, placing myself above others, not caring about their own spiritual state, unwilling to reach out. Praise God that He did not treat me the same and He continued to reach out to me until I learned my lesson. Many professing Christians are just that; they profess it, but do not live it. It has not changed them.

Thanks for sharing your personal journey!  I love hearing people's faith stories as it reminds me of Pilgrim's Progress how we are all on a journey.  I definitely think as my dad would say, "Tend to you own," meaning we need to focus on ourselves first.  I do think there are issues that grieved Jesus when He was here, and I also think they should grieve our hearts too.  God is far more merciful with us than we are with each other, hence where love is lacking.  You made some good points!  Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

On 7/19/2017 at 4:11 PM, Willa said:

The problem is not how much they love me, but how much do I love them?  God is teaching us to love and forgive, and to love as He does when we determine to love the unlovable and forgive the unforgivable.  

God started me in my Christian walk by showing me that I lacked God's love, 1 Cor. 13 type love, in my life.  I also had pushed people away to avoid being hurt.  And He was asking me to keep on loving even knowing that people would continue to hurt me and reject me.  We are told that people will treat us like they treated Christ, so we should expect that--even in the church.  We are all at different stages of Christian maturity, and we should be an example to the Christians who are less mature in this area.  

When we are hurt, it is the old man in us that is hurting.  It is our pride, our selfishness and even some self righteousness if we think we are better than they are..  These things have to die so that the Spirit of Christ can be seen in me.  No one said that the Christian life would be easy.  

 

Isa 53:3 WEB He was despised, and rejected by men; a man of suffering, and acquainted with disease. He was despised as one from whom men hide their face; and we didn’t respect him. Isa 53:4  Surely he has borne our sickness, and carried our suffering; yet we considered him plagued, struck by God, and afflicted. Isa 53:5  But he was pierced for our transgressions. He was crushed for our iniquities. The punishment that brought our peace was on him; and by his wounds we are healed.

Isa 53:6  All we like sheep have gone astray. Everyone has turned to his own way; and Yahweh has laid on him the iniquity of us all. Isa 53:7  He was oppressed, yet when he was afflicted he didn’t open his mouth. As a lamb that is led to the slaughter, and as a sheep that before its shearers is silent, so he didn’t open his mouth. Isa 53:8  He was taken away by oppression and judgment; and as for his generation, who considered that he was cut off out of the land of the living and stricken for the disobedience of my people?

Having said that, I have to agree that my father in law was much easier to love and forgive after he died.  While alive, he would just do some hateful thing again that I would struggle to forgive so I could try to love him.  But God was showing me my own arrogance and lack of love.  He sent the most unloving person into my life to show me my own sin.  I cannot love him.  Only Jesus could love him while being rejected and hated by him.  Thank You Jesus.  What I can't do, Jesus can do through me when I allow Him to live in me.

Hi Willa!   I appreciate your time and thoughts.  I agree with some of what you're saying.  Actually, my question is about love for everyone, not just me.  This isn't fully about me and my needs, but the lack of love I am seeing overall that should be evident in true believers.  I know I'm not alone in feeling this way, many others have confided that in me also as I do discipleship and lay counseling.  I was being very raw and vulnerable in sharing my thoughts, and this was only my 2nd post on this site.  You have to post 3 to get into chat, and that's what was on my heart at the time.  I had no clue people were going to jump on my comments and dissect them like they did, lol.  

I agree, love and forgiveness are beautiful things that we should all desire to do.  Yes, we're called to love the unlovable, and I sure do try.  I don't actually push people away, it was more a wishful thought in my head caused by the lack of love that I see.  I am a very loving person, I can love anyone, even random strangers that's why love is so important to me.  I think communicating this way and not being able to see people's hearts, or not knowing people can lead to a lot of assumptions.  Tone, meaning are not always clear.  Know what I mean?  I only desire the things that God does, and desiring love for the universal body of believers is not wrong.

I do expect mistreatment and rejection by the world, but I differ from you as I think we should expect genuine love by our brothers in Christ.  1 Peter 1:22 Since you have purified your souls by obedience to the truth, so that you have a genuine love for your brothers, love one another deeply, from a pure heart.  Sure nobody's perfect and we shouldn't expect perfection, but believers are to exhibit the fruits of the Spirit.  This is not judgment, or at least not mine, but it's God's commandments to Christians.  I agree we should be an example to less mature Christians, but I'm not only speaking of immature Christians lacking love.  You will have to look at some of the examples I will post later to explain what I mean.  

I also don't agree that when we are hurt it's the old man hurting.  Jesus was like us in every way and knew hurt and pain.  He cried when Lazarus died (John 11), He cried tears of blood in the garden before going to be crucified (John 11:35), and there are other examples of where He had great sadness and tears (all associated with hurt) and He was the only perfect being that ever walked the face of the Earth.  Romans 12:15 says, "Rejoice with those who rejoice, and weep with those who weep."  Clearly the Lord demonstrates compassion for others and approves of weeping, a response to the emotion, sadness, that He created in us.  Also, we don't want to be like Job's comforters lacking compassion as he refers to them as "sorry comforters" in Job 16:2.    

I think hurt can be pride, but it is not always, and that's not a fair judgment unless one knows a person's heart.  The Bible tells us in 1 Samuel, "For the Lord does not see as man sees, for man looks at the outward appearance, but the Lord looks at the heart."  The only person's heart we truly know is our own.  We can however form our opinions based upon the tree a fruit bears Matthew 7:16 (You will recognize them by their fruits.  Are grapes from thorn bushes, or figs from thistles?"   I think that requires a lot of balance to see things clearly and a lot of discernment from the Lord.

The Christian life is definitely not easy!  I've been walking it for 30 some years, and I don't think it gets easier as you get older, maybe harder, lol.  Thanks for the good discussion.  It seems you desire God's ways too, and that is what's most important!  Have a blessed day!

On 7/19/2017 at 2:54 PM, Sojourner414 said:

Gemstone, folks here have given some reasons why that help explain a lot, but I suspect that deep down, this hurts you greatly because you want to be able to fellowship with folks and cannot. I go through the same kind of hurt myself, and it hurts deep at times and I don't want to get hurt either. I think one thing that may be driving the way people act is that they are getting scared with all the violence and wickedness they see, and that can cause folks to become reactionary and combative.

That being the case, some may not be following the Lord as they should, some may be in pain and lashing out at others, and yet more may only be "playing christian", I cannot say. Humans don't exactly come with a neon sign that blinks "I'm a genuine Christian" (would be nice though, right? :lol: ). But for whatever reason they do those things that hurt us, we need to be careful and observant. In the past, I  have found myself acting in ways that were rather aggressive and have had to bring that to the Lord in repentant, humble prayer when the Holy Spirit convicted me on it.

I will be praying that you find some gentle believers to befriend, as well ask the Lord to comfort you. It can be pretty lonely out there.

Sojo!!!  You commented on my post before I got to know you in chat, that made me smile!   I hope you're having a good day, and I've enjoyed getting to know you and the others there!  Man, you people comment fast, and I can't keep up with responses to this chat! lol

I do fellowship with people, and I love them.  I do think relationships within the church can often be surface (How's the weather?  How are you?, etc.,) and not move to the deeper level which I desire, authenticity.  But sometimes I have observed flat out nastiness and the opposite of love.  It's not even always directed at me, but other people that become deeply wounded, some even get out of church.  Not trying to be mean/judge anyone, but just a truthful observation.  I will provide examples in a later post responding to someone elses comments.  

Actually the increased violence, wickedness, and lack of love shows me that we are growing closer to the End Times.  Although those things don't make me happy, it does make me cry, "Come Lord Jesus, Come!"  

I love your neon sign/blinking lights idea, you should take that up with God as it would be most helpful!  I'm not really aggressive with people.  I love people!  I just was being vulnerable and sharing my heart.  Gentle believers are great, but I don't even mind the bold ones cause God made us all different.  I just desire to see more authentic love in the body.  It can be lonely, but God always provides!

 Thanks for listening, caring, praying, and responding!  I appreciate you!  

On 7/19/2017 at 1:58 PM, Mike 2 said:

This ain't easy annnnd, you can't do it from a distance

You can't help whether or not you like someone or their behavior but love.....

Love is something you have to work at....and teach by example

I gotta agree with Omegaman....sometimes humanness steps on love, that's why the verses from Paul can be hard to practice.

 

You got that right Mike!  I agree, the distance thing doesn't work, I just meant it sounded nice!  I do love people, even the unlovable ones.  Sometimes I'm actually drawn to them because sometimes that's because they're hurting, and they need love the most!  Giving love actually comes easier for me than some.  My real name means love.  That's why I think it's so hard for me to see love lacking where it should be the greatest, withing the church, true believers!  I'm not saying that all Christians are unloving, I've been blessed to know many that are full of love!  None of us have arrived, and we all can grow even more in love.  This is not meant to be a criticism, more of an observation and reflection.  Thanks for sharing your thoughts!  

I will try to respond to you soon for those that have asked questions of my statements.  I am not ignoring you, but I've not been on the forums every day.  Your patience is appreciated.   

My favorite gemstone is me!  Haha!  Actually, I like emeralds cause my eyes are green!

5 hours ago, Redemption79 said:

hello

if you outgoing social person, i don't see how you would struggle to make loyal friends who cares about you in the Church.

unless you are attending a wrong church.

i personally think and i could be wrong, that church preaches prosperity gospel tends to drawn people there for the wrong reason, so can church there are dead in the sense that it is religious and no longer has the Spirit in them

or could  it be your circumstances, i do think as one get older, if you are still single, then yes, it is hard to make friends as nobody want a third wheel.

 

Hi Redemption,

I think there is a misunderstanding that if people are outgoing, social that they can easily make deep friendships.  Many people are drawn to this personality type, but it can lead to a lot of surface relationships with many people and not the deep, authentic relationships that I desire.  In essence it equals lots of acquaintances but very true friends.   By the way, my husband and others tell me that I don't know a stranger, so it's not for me lacking investing in others and showing them love.  

Also, what I didn't share previously is that I've had many years of chronic health issues (nearly 20 years) that have gotten progressively worse, so I'm not always healthy enough to be out of the house as much.  Being kept inside more often (I am an outdoor person,) further makes the hermit a more easy possibility.  It's not just singles or introverts that have trouble making friends.  I do have some extra challenges with my health, and not having kids.  Most people my age have kids and some are even starting to have grandchildren.  To me though, in the body of Christ are marital status, age, race, etc. shouldn't matter because we have the most important thing in common (Christ) that should bond us together.  

I also think that although we have quick access to people through internet, cell phones, and social media that people are less connected on a deeper level, or at least that has been my experience.  People tend to keep themselves very busy too and don't always make the time needed to develop deep relationships.  

Also, My church is a predominantly elderly, and a conservative church and I'm in my early 40's.  Although I don't mind fellowship with people of all ages, some people only wish to hang out with people their own age.  People also have already established friendships, and when you're the new one to your church (less than 2 years,) it's hard to find where you fit in.  

My church is a Bible believing church, and friendly, just hard to make deeper relationships.  I wasn't specifically referring to my church, but the Universal Church of all Christ followers.  I'm not looking for a church just to meet my needs, but church in part is for the edification of the saints, and I don't think there's anything wrong with wanting to be encouraged, supported, and loved.  I serve and use my gifts, and I do it without expecting anything in return.  We are like pitchers though, and if we are constantly pouring into others without our pitchers being replenished, we can run dry and then be no good for service to the Lord and others.  By the way, my husband was a pastor, so I am formerly a pastor's wife and know all about servitude and what is required.  

I agree that some churches can draw people as more of a social club and for wrong motives.  It's not a wrong motive to want to be deeply connected to your brothers and sisters in Christ.  It's not a wrong motive to want all believers to be a loving, holy example to a dark world that needs to see the love of Jesus in all of us.  

  Thanks for sharing your thoughts!

21 hours ago, enoob57 said:

Matthew 7:14 (KJV)

[14] Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

In this Christianity has also succumbed and the only correction is to walk outside of the worlds influence where The Holy Spirit can realign motives... The most important and continuous relationship we are to have is with The Father through The Son by the aid of The Holy Spirit. When this relationship is what it should be we are complete in Him and are not dependent upon others in anyway in said completion... thus I am now ready to be a friend to those who are messed up in their lives because they are not where I am!

Galatians 2:20 (KJV)

[20] I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

It cost our Lord ... it will also cost us. But The Lord warns us

Hebrews 10:38 (KJV)

[38] Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.

To look upon the man who has the pleasure of The Lord in them is to see Jesus living His Life in them...
Love, Steven

Steven,  

Thank you for your heart felt insight.  I appreciate you taking the time to respond.  Yes, few find the gate.  I think that brings up another challenge that the lack of love sometimes exhibited in our churches create.  We are to test the spirits (1 John 4:1) to know if they are of God or not.  When people are not loving to others within the church is it a spiritual maturity issue, are they non believers "wolves in sheep's clothing," (Matthew 7:15,) etc.  Then it becomes hard to distinguish who your true brothers and sisters in Christ are.  I don't expect people to be perfect, we all make mistakes...even the most mature believers do.  Desiring people to be authentic and loving (the greatest 2 commandments...God and others) is obviously of the utmost importance and I think that's a good expectation/standard to have.  John 13:35 By this all people will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.  

You said in your above post, "When this relationship is what it should be we are complete in Him and are not dependent upon others in anyway in said completion."  I don't think wanting others to be loving makes us dependent upon them.  Desiring people to be loving is what God desires of them and us.  Not liking what sin has done to the world (lack of peace, love, unity, etc.) should make all believers sad, as I am sure it does our Father.  

Hebrews 10:38 is a good reference to not give up.  I don't plan on it! Galatians 6:9 is another good one... Let us not lose heart in doing good, for in due time we will reap if we do not grow weary.   Just because I "feel" like being a hermit doesn't mean I will, but honestly sometimes I want to.  I was made for another world, this is not my home, and just thinking out loud I guess.  

Some things you said that I really liked is that the Holy spirit realigns motives is our hope, that our relationship with the Father/Jesus/Holy Spirit is priority, it will cost us a lot just like it did our Lord, and not to give up!   

Love in Christ, Gem

21 hours ago, Yowm said:

Sounds like a fulfillment of prophecy...

Very true!  I am an optimist, and I guess it's just hard to see the lack of love, especially in our churches.  Thanks for sharing!

23 hours ago, 4LdKHVCzRDj2 said:

I experienced similar feelings. The answer I found is that I should love them and treat them the way I would like to be treated, expecting nothing good in return.

"For if you love those who love you, what reward have you? Do not even the tax collectors do the same?" - Matthew 5:46  

 

There will be people who will love me, there will be people who only show to love me, and there will be people who will hate me explicitly.

"But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you,
do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you" - Matthew 5:44

 

On 7/19/2017 at 1:51 AM, gemstone777 said:

This is making me want to pull away from others and become a hermit.

"You are the light of the world. A city that is set on a hill cannot be hidden." - Matthew 5:14

 

But God loves me, and He loves you too. Thank God!

I agree about loving the unlovable, and I do try to treat the people that are unloving with love.  I definitely don't want to repay evil with evil. (Romans 12:17; 1 Peter 3:9)  Just because others actions make me "feel" like being a hermit doesn't mean I will or keep my love from others.

Thanks for the Matthew 5:14 reference! But Ecclesiastes 4:9-10 says Two are better than one because they have a good return for their labor.  For if either of them falls, the one will lift up his companion.  But woe to the one who falls where there is not another to lift him up.  We were created for relationships, and we need authentic friendships.  In the church it is sometimes much harder than it should be to establish these kind of relationships and that is the issue I am bringing to light.   

If someone is your enemy/unlovable yes we are still supposed to love them, but that doesn't mean include them as a close friend.  Our brothers/sisters in Christ are supposed to be our "family."  If they are unloving, unkind, and not supportive it's hard to establish genuine, close relationship with them.  This is a real problem in our churches, and I'm looking for real solutions.  

I believe this is serious because it hinders non-believers from wanting to accept Christ, and it causes a lot of hurt and sometimes even disunity in the body of believers.  Thank you for reminding me that God loves me!  Yes He does!  All of this has made me much closer to Him, so that's a positive.  Thanks for sharing your heart!

22 hours ago, AFlameOfFire said:

love of many shall wax cold.

Yes, I think that is exactly what we are seeing.  I definitely think it applies.  Thanks for the reminder!

On 7/19/2017 at 5:29 AM, JesusGivesLifeMeaning said:

Because many have not "died to self" yet in their Christian walk.

That is very true.  Selfishness is the enemy of loving.  Thanks for sharing your thoughts with me.  

19 hours ago, 4LdKHVCzRDj2 said:

I agree with all of what you said.  These are similar things that I am reminded of when I get to feeling that way.  I know we can't base our decisions on our feelings, or we wouldn't fulfill God's purpose for us in furthering the Gospel.  Thank you for the reminders!

Thank you for your reply.   I understand they are human.  I understand we all need forgiveness and we must be merciful to others because we need mercy extended to us.  When do you say this is not how things should be, and stop tolerating unrepentive sinfulness that is damaging to unity, growing in maturity, and furthering the Gospel?  I've heard non-believers say that how some Christians have treated them, or observations of how they treat each other makes them want no part in it.  I know for some that is probably an excuse, but for others it's turned them off to Christianity.

I'm a social, outgoing person.  I used to find it easier to make friends.  I'm finding it harder to find loyal, loving, genuine friendships as I get older. This is making me want to pull away from others and become a hermit.  I know God has called all of us to love others, and I do, but I want to love them from a distance.  I see the ugliness in the world, and it makes my heart sad.  I don't see how truly loving believers can treat people the way they sometimes do.  I want to continue to love others, but I don't want to allow others to hurt me, or watch them hurt others.  Some wisdom, Scriptures, and prayers would be most helpful, thanks!