Bro.Tan

20 hours ago, Sower said:

"DON'T FOOL YOURSELF! If we really have faith in Jesus our actions will prove it"
   Well said, and with that, I rest my case

  A soft answer turneth away wrath. Usually.

          “Tis the season to be jolly.”
"Peace on Earth and Goodwill to all men" 
           Why not give it a try .....

               Remember, every day,
      This is the day the Lord has made.
Let us rejoice and be glad in it" (Psalm 118: 24).

             It's OK to Chill out, brother..

In the scripture it's written in Eccesiates 3: 1 To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven: 2 a time to be born, and a time to die; a time to plant, and a time to pluck up that which is planted; 3 a time to kill, and a time to heal; a time to break down, and a time to build up; 4 a time to weep, and a time to laugh; a time to mourn, and a time to dance; 5 a time to cast away stones, and a time to gather stones together; a time to embrace, and a time to refrain from embracing; 6 a time to get, and a time to lose; a time to keep, and a time to cast away; 7 a time to rend, and a time to sew; a time to keep silence, and a time to speak; 8 a time to love, and a time to hate; a time of war, and a time of peace.

I don't want to see people going down the wrong path, so this is the time, like Paul says in 2 Timothy 4: 1 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom; 2 preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine. 3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; 4 and they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. 5 But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry.

22 hours ago, Sower said:

                    "more truthful if you post the rest of what I said"

Your reply was more than forty lines long. I read your first words and decided how cool it would be to respond in kind to those. Didn't know you were actually being sarcastic. I did not read the rest of it, nor even consider as you have been given many scriptures already to think about.

“Tis the season to be jolly.” Peace on Earth and Goodwill to all men.

I honestly thought we might have shared a little peace, brother, not confrontation.

I bow out, conceding, you won. And Goodwill to all men...

Jesus says in Matthew 10: 34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. 35 For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. 36 And a man's foes shall be they of his own household. 37 He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. 38 And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me. 39 He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it.

The bible says, we must not only be a hearer of the word, but a doer of the word also (James 1:21-22). DON'T FOOL YOURSELF! If we really have faith in Jesus our actions will prove it. If Jesus is our Lord then we will obey him. Even a child will obey a parent, by getting good grades in school, for the reward of a new bicycle. The child cannot earn money for the bicycle, but instead must act upon their faith to receive the free gift. We must do the same to receive eternal life. "FAITH WITHOUT WORKS IS DEAD” (James 2:20).

18 hours ago, Your closest friendnt said:

Jesus is not bother what the people of different religions are doing or what they were doing in the past on that day. And why would he bother? With the same mouth they worship the Idols in the past and with the same mouth they are worshiping him. This is to his glory. The one who would bother is the Idol God whom they were worshiping on that day in the past and whom they do not worshiping now. On that day and on any other day of the year. He is the one to complain. Turn on the radio and the TV on Christmas eve and Christmas day and you will hear all the blessed Christmas songs from O' Holy night when Christ was born to a lot of other Christian songs and a few songs about Santa Clause who gives gifts to children that create good memories in them. Jesus does not mind. He is asking anyone to believe in him as they are without any prejudice to anyone. He is asking those who play the Santa Clause to believe if they do not believe. Do not kill the Santa Claus. We need him to bring joy to people and the children and remember if we did not have Jesus and saint Nicolas and other Christian who did good things to people and the children on that day we would not have Santa Claus. This day out of all the other days of the year joy should fulfill our hearts. Even Jesus said that Moses knew of his day and he rejoice. And whether someone wants to say that Jesus gives us the gift of the Eternal Life just by believing without having any money just like Santa who gives gifts to all no mater who they are and with the help of other people in the same way Jesus Christ gives the gift of the Eternal Life with our help when we proclaim the Gospel to others. It does not matter if we make parallels all the time to excuse what we do having to make this day a joyful day to remember. Good will to all men. Let the other people from all other religions participate in the Christmas holidays in their own way which means that the hear about the birth of Jesus Christ and a lot of other things about Jesus Christ and the Gospel. What is your take on that matter well suit your self. But you keep talking about Jesus just like he was any other religious man and why do not say something about how he was born making some reference about that even if it is in your mind and if you celebrate his birth in some other way or some other time. Unless you do not like what you are reading in the Gospel of Luke...we also celebrate for the Jews to know that the Christ was born 2000 years ago who in their beliefs they are still waiting for him to be born this is what the prophetic in their scripture says. That the Christ will be born from a Jewish maiden not married yet and before knowing any man. That's what the Jews at that time believed and teach this is why Mary said that my heart rejoice to hear that I am chosen to be the mother of the promise Christ the promised one as in the book of Moses and in the prophets as in Esaiah and Micah and the others. Merry Christmas to you and if you do not celebrate Christmas on that day then perhaps you celebrate Christmas or the birth of our Savior on another day perhaps on the 7th of January together with the Greek orthodox church or the orthodox believers in eastern Europe or with the Coptic Christians. or together with the monks who keep the Christmas strictly spiritual celebrating the birth of Jesus Christ with fasting and praying and their Calendar has nothing to do with our Calendar and some of them they have inserted a new day that it was not in the Pagan Calendar the Calendar which we continued to have the Roman Calendar.  In many other Countries of the world they did not celebrate the Roman or Egyptians Gods on that day or the Ancient Gods of other people. Jesus took people out of all the ancient religions of the world he conquer all those other powers...those are the ones to complain who lost their worshipers. Perhaps you should consider to talk more about how the Pagans who worship other Gods for generations turn around and start worshiping Jesus and they make a Statement on the day they were worshiping the Idols to worship Jesus to the dismay of their Gods and their followers and to the Glory of Jesus Christ. 

Jesus says in John 7:24  Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment. Pay attention what's being said hear in  John 7:51 Doth our law judge any man, before it hear him, and know what he doeth?  If one really read the Bible you would know that it's wrong to lie and deal with paganism. 

Didn't Jesus say in John 14:15   If ye love me, keep my commandments. Isn't it written Thou shalt have no other gods before me. Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me; Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy. (Exodus 20:2-5, 8)  

So you go and buy I tree or cut one down and install it in your home. Put a star on the top of it. Where are the stars? In the sky, which is called Heaven also. And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years: And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so. And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also. (Genesis 1:14-16) Then you fix the tree to look good, buy gifts and put it under the tree. Every time you put a gift under that tree you bow down to it. But let's read a little about what you not suppose to be doing....

"Hear ye the word which the LORD speaketh unto you, O house of Israel: Thus saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them. For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe. They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers that it move not. They are upright as the palm tree, but speak not: they must needs be borne, because they cannot go. (Jeremiah 10: 1-5) 

Also it’s written Daniel 5: 22 And thou his son, O Belshazzar, hast not humbled thine heart, though thou knewest all this; 23 but hast lifted up thyself against the Lord of heaven; and they have brought the vessels of his house before thee, and thou, and thy lords, thy wives, and thy concubines, have drunk wine in them; and thou hast praised the gods of silver, and gold, of brass, iron, wood, and stone, which see not, nor hear, nor know: and the God in whose hand thy breath is, and whose are all thy ways, hast thou not glorified:

Every man is brutish in his knowledge: every founder is confounded by the graven image: for his molten image is falsehood, and there is no breath in them. They are vanity, and the work of errors: in the time of their visitation they shall perish". (Jeremiah 10:1-15)

On 12/26/2023 at 11:38 AM, Sower said:

Well, thank you Bro Tan. I knew you would come around....
Have a blessed enjoyment of celebrating our Father's gift to us, Lord Jesus.
Each and every day of your life. You are blessed...

(hope this is kosher:)
 

Would of been more truthful if you post the rest of what I said. Like Paul says in 1 Peter 2: 12 having your conversation honest among the Gentiles: that, whereas they speak against you as evildoers, they may by your good works, which they shall behold, glorify God in the day of visitation. 

“Tis the season to be jolly.” Peace on Earth and Goodwill to all men. These are sayings associated with Christmas, the day that Jesus the Christ was born; or was it? Certainly this could be a description of Christmas. Celebrations such as these were taking place among non-Christians centuries before Jesus Christ was born! Such customs do not come from the Bible. They have nothing to do with the birth of Jesus Christ. Jesus did not originate them, nor were they observed by the prophets (Old Testament) or the apostles (New Testament). 

Peace on Earth and Goodwill to all men. Why, because we feed and shelter the less fortunate on this one day called Christmas? Shouldn't we care for the less fortunate all year long? Retailers increase the prices on merchandise, to try to recover from poor sales from the 1st three-quarters of the fiscal year.

Jesus says in Matthew 10: 34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. 35 For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. 36 And a man's foes shall be they of his own household. 37 He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. 38 And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me. 39 He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it.

"Hear ye the word which the LORD speaketh unto you, O house of Israel: Thus saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them. For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe. They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers that it move not. They are upright as the palm tree, but speak not: they must needs be borne, because they cannot go. Be not afraid of them; for they cannot do evil, neither also is it in them to do good. 

But they are altogether brutish and foolish: the stock is a doctrine of vanities. Silver spread into plates is brought from Tarshish, and gold from Uphaz, the work of the workman, and of the hands of the founder: blue and purple is their clothing: they are all the work of cunning men. But the LORD is the true God; he is the living God, and an everlasting king: at his wrath the earth shall tremble, and the nations shall not be able to abide his indignation. Thus shall ye say unto them, the gods that have not made the heavens and the earth, even they shall perish from the earth, and from under these heavens. (Jeremiah 10th Chapter)

14 hours ago, Your closest friendnt said:

Jesus before his death on the Cross he spoke about the things that were about to come. And the disciples later understood that when Jesus died on the Cross, the Lamb of God Slain for the sins of the world shed the blood of the New Covenant. Jesus shed the blood of the New Covenant for the whole world. Unlikely when the Sinai Covenant was given to the Israelites in the dessert which included the Covenant of Cirumcision. That time the existing Covenant of Cirumcision was codified in  the Sinai Covenant.  The Law as in the book of Leviticus was to be kept only from the Circumcised Israelites only, and those who the Law allowed to joint the Israelites. Only the Circumcised Israelites were to participate in the celebrations of their religious Calendar according to the Law and the cleansing ceremonies. 

Only Circumcised Israelites or those who joint them in the Sinai Covenant were allowed to participate in the yearly Atonement according to the book of Leviticus. 

God excluded the Keeping of the Law in the New Covenant by not including the Covenant of Cirumcision. And by doing that he was able to join to Jesus Christ all the Israelites who were not Circumcised and all the Gentiles procylites or not who were not Circumcised. In this way God made Jesus Christ the Savior for all the people of the world which included all people who ever lived, which included all who had died before him. This is the only way to make it possible for Jesus Christ to be the Savior to die for the sins of all the people of the world. Because God included in Jesus Christ all Gentiles who had died before Jesus and to whom Jesus preached the Good News forgiveness of sins in his name and it was not possible for them to be Circumcised because they were in the Spirit. So every one is saved by having the forgiveness of his sins in the same way by believing in Jesus Christ. Every one is saved in the same way by believing in Jesus Christ who died for the forgiveness of the sins of the whole world for anyone who believes in him. And every one is saved in the same way, when he is included in Jesus Christ by believing in him without their good works, in the same way as those who believe in the preaching of Jesus when Jesus preached to them in the place of the dead and as they were in the Spirit Jesus saved them or forgave their sins without works for it was impossible for them to do any good work as they were not in their body or as they were died and were without it in the place of the dead. They were saved and has their sins forgiven by faith in Jesus Christ without their good works and so we are saved and our sins are forgiven before we do any good works. Definitely they were without keeping the Law of Moses. Or participating in the things of the Law of Moses in any way at all. 

 

HI there.....you didn't quoted any scriptures or verses, but you believe all that you wrote. Jesus brought grace when he came in the flesh, but example of grace was in the days of Noah. But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD. (Genesis 6:8), And Noah and his family was saved. Just as you freely accepted Jesus in your life you can also freely choose to stop serving him. Jesus said with his own mouth; (Matt. 24:13) But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. That is until the end of your life, or until the Second Coming of the Lord.

Now Paul said in (Rom. 3:23-25) (v.23) For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God. (v.24) Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: (v.25) Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God.

So the bible tells you to repent and be baptized in the name of Jesus for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost." (Acts 2 :36-38). And by doing so you come up under his precious blood and then you are saved from your sins that are past, not present or future sins but for sins that are past. We were all locked under death by Adam’s sin, even the second death. But when Jesus became (he was God in the beginning) man and died for the sins of the world, he gave us access back to the tree of life (himself) which Adam had caused us to lose. That’s what grace is, our free gift our access back to the tree of life but that’s another lesson for another time.

So by coming under the blood of Jesus you are saved from your past sins. And if you are saved now, it is on a day to day basis. Because for all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God (Romans 23:3), and if you continue to live you will sin again. It is the willful sinning that you need to put in check. For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. (Hebrew 10: 26, 27)

In the scriptures it's written in Isaiah 56: 1 Thus saith the LORD, Keep ye judgment, and do justice: for my salvation is near to come, and my righteousness to be revealed. 2 Blessed is the man that doeth this, and the son of man that layeth hold on it; that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and keepeth his hand from doing any evil.

21 hours ago, Your closest friendnt said:

This is not what the disciples of Jesus Christ teach. Jesus did not give them this comandment to preach in Jerusalem and Judea and to the ends of the world to keep the commandments. 

The mandate to the disciples was about the good news about Jesus Christ and it was to the people who were keeping the commandments to the people in Jerusalem and Judea. And to the Gentiles who were not keeping the commandments in Leviticus also to preach the Gospel of Jesus Christ. 

And to Jews who kept the commandments it was preached that without faith in Jesus Christ they will perish. They will die in their sins. The obedience to the Leviticus will not give them the eternal life with God. Only the obedience in the Gospel of Jesus Christ gives the eternal life, faith in Jesus Christ. 

People we must realize, that it is the keeping of God’s holy laws that separates the righteous from the unrighteous and the Saints from the Sinners. (Titus: 3:8) This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men. You must learn (by the word of God) what God expects of you and maintain his expectations to the end, if you expect to be saved. Jesus says in (Matt. 5:16) Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.

Paul said in (Gal. 3:11) But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, THE JUST SHALL LIVE BY FAITH. This didn’t start in the New Testament, Paul was only quoting scripture, and the just has always lived by their faith. (Habakkuk 2:4) Behold, his soul which is lifted up is not upright in him: but the just shall live by his faith. The just shall live by his belief (faith), and how do you show the Lord that you believe in him? By your obedience to his word.

9 hours ago, Yes, and said:

What @Your closest friendnt just said. I'll say it this way: No, no, no, no, no. A thousand times No! Why would I "oppose you to your face"? Simply because, as said before, you preach "another gospel," which is not good news, and even further, in its essence says that Jesus' sacrificial death on the cross was pointless. We have no need of it if all we must do is obey all the commandments, or at least show God that we're trying.

Again, it's one thing to say you believe celebrating Christmas is an error and you have not the freedom to do so yourself. That would be all well and good. I have some very dear friends and siblings in the Lord who recently came to the conclusion that they would no longer celebrate Christmas. They are following their own consciences, but neither would the judge me for doing so. But, when you go WAY beyond and accuse anyone who does celebrate as being in essence a Godless pagan, that's another thing entirely. And here again, you completely misread and misunderstand Paul's teaching in Ro 14.

PS to Moderators: I do not believe I am exhibiting "righteous indignation" in this thread, nor am I attacking the person. This is too important a matter to leave as just a topical discussion about the origins of Christmas traditions, and @Bro.Tan has gone well beyond that scope. And yes, this belief should be opposed in no less strident terms as Paul and others in the NT did.

It's written  in Revelation 21:  8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

All this is condition of sins, but I guess you are not concern with the second death. All have sinned (broken the law...Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law (I John 3:4)  and the wages of sin is death (Romans 6:23). When Jesus (the true Lamb of God) was sacrificed, he removed our past sins. If we accept Jesus as our sin offering, we are required to repent and get baptized IN THE NAME OF JESUS ("there is none other name under heaven given among men whereby we must be saved..."(Acts 4: 12). This is our last chance Brothers and Sister.

To repent means to turn from our sinful ways and start obeying God's law. The water baptism signifies the washing away of our past sins. After repenting and being baptized in the name of Jesus it would be foolish for us to turn around and willingly break God's commandments. If we make an honest mistake Jesus can help us, but if we sin willingly, look out! "...there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation..." (Hebrews 10:26-27). 

1 hour ago, TheBlade said:

It would have been better to stop awhile ago. In this post there are words obeying and laws. "few are obeying God's Holy days". You said about those laws "must be obeyed". Yet you can't even see what you did. I can't tell someone "best not to lie" when I am lying. 

See anyone can say what you said, just flip it and it will be true? "Many fight to uphold and are keeping the Sabbath the Passover, Pentecost". " Many are obeying God's holy days". Now for me if I do not know many and just guessing, speculating then that's all it is and GOD never does this. I tend to take it further its just lying. I know I don't know many, some, few yet I speak write those words anyway.

If Christ was still walking the earth then yes amen but He died and rose. When He did walk this earth He and all of Israel were under and living, obeying the law all 613. You quote the OT praise GOD yet not Romans or Hebrews which deals with all this.

Were not auditioning for anything here. Some will understand.

Jesus says... Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. (Matthew 5:17-19)

Now, if the Jesus said think not that I came to destroy the law, lets reason together, what do destroy mean; to take away, etc, right. So that simply means that the law is still on the table and the prophets

Jesus couldn't destroy the prophet because he had to fulfilled all of what the prophets wrote about Jesus and what he had to do. First of all, all is not fulfilled, lets look at this again

For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. 

Heaven and earth is still here.

Many fight to uphold man's traditional holidays (Sunday the 1st day as the Sabbath, Christmas, Easter and Halloween), but few are obeying God's Holy Days (Saturday the 7th day Sabbath, the Passover, Pentecost, etc...Leviticus 23:1-44). All of God's laws are still good and must be obeyed if we want eternal life. We might not be able to observe everything perfectly, but can fight a good fight. If we do this our prize awaits us at the end. "...if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments" (Matthew 19:17).

On 12/17/2023 at 3:31 PM, Vine Abider said:

And all I was saying is apart from Him you can do exactly zilch.  Only His life in you can do it bro (if you let Him) - not you.

A man asked Jesus this very question, "...What good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life?", and Jesus replied, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. (Matthew 19:16-19). 

On 12/17/2023 at 3:33 PM, Your closest friendnt said:

I can't agree with you, because you are talking about the beliefs of the English and Scots and Irish and you forget that the Gospel started from the areas around the minor Asian and spread to Cyprus and Crete and Macedonian are Egypt and Ethiopia and Greece and then Rome and Italy and not yet France and not yet England and the Scots and the Irish and the Islandic people.  

While Europe was full with the Gospel the English and Scott's and Irish at the least some of them were in deep darkness. In a very deep darkness because their religion was like that.

You forget that the Gospel at first was preached to Greeks in manor Asia and to the Jews through out Greece and Manor Asia.  

Thank you for your response and peace in Jesus name

Holly has been used in Christmas tradition for almost two thousand years. It's older, pagan origins began at least as early as ancient Rome, when holly was associated with Saturn, the sun god. In Druidic and other related pagan traditions, holly leaves were placed around homes in the winter in the belief that the fairies would use it as a shelter against the cold. Early Christians in the British Isles adopted this tradition at first to avoid persecution, but holly was eventually reinterpreted with Christian symbolism. The pointy edges represent the crown of thorns which Christ wore during his crucifixion. The red berries represent Christ's blood which he shed during His torture and death. 

Why can't we find the word Christmas in the Bible? Why don't we see in the Bible where Jesus, the apostles, or anyone else for that matter, celebrating his birthday? The Bible tells us to remember his death (which is the Passover); it says nothing about celebrating his birth. It doesn't even tell you when he was born.

"Hear ye the word which the LORD speaketh unto you, O house of Israel: Thus saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them. For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe. They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers that it move not. They are upright as the palm tree, but speak not: they must needs be borne, because they cannot go. Be not afraid of them; for they cannot do evil, neither also is it in them to do good. Forasmuch as there is none like unto thee, O LORD; thou art great, and thy name is great in might. Who would not fear thee, O King of nations? For to thee doth it appertain: forasmuch as among all the wise men of the nations, and in all their kingdoms, there is none like unto thee.

But they are altogether brutish and foolish: the stock is a doctrine of vanities. Silver spread into plates is brought from Tarshish, and gold from Uphaz, the work of the workman, and of the hands of the founder: blue and purple is their clothing: they are all the work of cunning men. But the LORD is the true God; he is the living God, and an everlasting king: at his wrath the earth shall tremble, and the nations shall not be able to abide his indignation. Thus shall ye say unto them, the gods that have not made the heavens and the earth, even they shall perish from the earth, and from under these heavens. He hath made the earth by his power, he hath established the world by his wisdom, and hath stretched out the heavens by his discretion. When he uttereth his voice, there is a multitude of waters in the heavens, and he causeth the vapours to ascend from the ends of the earth; he maketh lightning’s with rain, and bringeth forth the wind out of his treasures. 

Every man is brutish in his knowledge: every founder is confounded by the graven image: for his molten image is falsehood, and there is no breath in them. They are vanity, and the work of errors: in the time of their visitation they shall perish". (Jeremiah 10:1-15)

On 12/16/2023 at 1:43 AM, Your closest friendnt said:

In the book of Hebrews the believers in Jesus Christ were living under the strict rules of the Sinai Covenant in City and villages where everyone was keeping the religious Calendar given to them under the Sinai Covenant. And their was not religious freedom at that time and everyone who lived in their cities had to abide by the same rules regarding the keeping of the Sabath and regarding visiting the Temple and if they did not keep the Sabath or abide by their cleansing rituals they were Judge by the religious authorities and by their own families who were abiding to the rules of the Sinai Covenant. The believers in Jesus Christ they had to follow the rules of the Coverning religious authorities if not they were accountable to them and also to their Jewish families. The were not given the choice. They were compelled to keep the Sabath and to abide by the cleansing rules and the rules for visiting the Temple but you are not in their situations why then do you want to live like you are a Jew and you are in their similar situations. Compelled to abide by the religious rules of your family and your community like the Hebrews believers were. Are you married to a Jewish wife? 

One thing you have to understand is Jewish people are not jews.  I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan. (Rev. 2:9) again, Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee. (Rev. 3:9) these are Edomites (Esau) The real Jews or Israelites are still in captivity. Pays in Romans 11: 25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

Now pay attention to what Paul says in Romans 3: 1 What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision? 2 Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God. 3 For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect? 4 God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, 

So if you can spiritually put these verses together then I just gave you a big message, but most people continue with their believe, but just like Paul says, shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect? 4 God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written. Rather you believe or understand this, it's still a fact. 

Let me add this in....The lord have not changed his ways. For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed (Malachi 3:6) or Hebrews 13:8  Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.
 

On 12/16/2023 at 8:24 AM, Vine Abider said:

Don't think that you can live the Christian life! You cannot keep the law, and especially the requirements as Jesus put forth in Mathew 5. Only One can do that  - -  and His Spirit is in us believers, and will live His life through us, if we let Him... But only by faith in Him. 

So you believe Jesus would tell us to do things that we can't do, and most people never tried to really serve God. The bible says, we must not only be a hearer of the word, but a doer of the word also (James 1:21-22). DON'T FOOL YOURSELF! If we really have faith in Jesus our actions will prove it. If Jesus is our Lord then we will obey him. Even a child will obey a parent, by getting good grades in school, for the reward of a new bicycle. The child cannot earn money for the bicycle, but instead must act upon their faith to receive the free gift. We must do the same to receive eternal life. "FAITH WITHOUT WORKS IS DEAD” (James 2:20).

Some say you must obey God's word, but then they turn around and teach contrary to God's word. At best they never get around to explaining exactly what kind of works are needed to get eternal life. A man asked Jesus this very question, "...What good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life?", and Jesus replied, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. (Matthew 19:16-19). See Exodus 20: 1-17

This was a direct answer to a direct question, which all of us will do well to take heed to. Anybody can claim to have faith, but actions speak louder than words. Faith and works go together and you can't have one without the other. "Here is the patience of the saints; here are they that keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus" (Revelation 14:12). 

19 hours ago, Yes, and said:

This comment alone shows how completely opposite an understanding of the Word and the good news you have, @Bro.Tan. But in perplexity I am confident you have some way of reconciling the complete contradiction to the Word seen between your statement and Mk 7:19b; Acts 10:9-16; Acts 11:4-10. Peter, the Jew among Jews, was told not only by Jesus in person but by the voice of God from heaven: Get over it! Something new has come!

It is one thing to have different degrees of understanding of the freedom God has bestowed on His children (hence the need for a teaching along the lines of Romans 14, for example), but it is another thing to take the stance you have, hence my perplexity.

I can only take from your position one of three possibilities:

1) You are completely deceived and unable to see and hear the Truth, or

2) You are deliberately attempting to lead people astray, preying upon their fears by using the Word incorrectly, or (and I will allow for this)

3) We who disagree with you are deceived.

On this last, I can only refer to Ro 8:16-17 and all of 1 John as response. The true test of deception is found there, and again, that test is completely opposite of what you write. The way I express this test is quite simple: what is your focus? Is it Jesus and his finished work on our behalf (which by so believing leads one into perfect obedience), or is it something else? Focusing on the other things (Christmas practices and traditions in this thread's case, or the Law) can never (EVER!) lead one into obedience. "The letter kills, but the Spirit gives life" (as already pointed out by a previous poster). Your words are death.

Since you for whatever reason refused to answer the thrice-asked question about how you follow the Law as regards the Sabbath, let me try one last tack, with two requests:

1) Would you please provide your own testimony about how you came to know the savior (or better, how you came to hear him calling you, and how you responded)?

2) Would you please tell us how you arrived at the place you are at such that you say the things you say?

I think your answers would provide valuable insight into your position and help us to better understand why you say what you say.

After you have falsely accuse me, of course I will not give you a testimony of me, how foolish of you to ask that of me. But let's visited that Act 10 and see if the spirit of God is in you, because you have been deceive by someone else, I am trying to show you love that can't receive because of your blindness. 

There was a certain man in Caesarea called Cornelius, a centurion of the band called the Italian band, a devout man, and one that feared God with all his house, which gave much alms to the people, and prayed to God always. He saw in a vision evidently about the ninth hour of the day an angel of God coming in to him, and saying unto him, Cornelius. And when he looked on him, he was afraid, and said, “What is it, Lord?” And he said unto him, “Thy prayers and thine alms are come up for a memorial before God. And now send men to Joppa, and call for one Simon, whose surname is Peter” (Acts 10:1-5) 

The angel of the Lord could have told Cornelius all he needed to know about the Lord, but that would have broken the protocol of God. The word of God is in the hands of Israel and can only be taught by the sons of Jacob (Israel). That's why the angel sent Cornelius, which was a son of Japheth (Gentile), to Peter the Israelite. Cornelius sent two of his servant to find Peter. The Lord prepares Peter before the two servants arrived. Let's skip down to the 9th verse.

On the morrow, as they went on their journey, and drew nigh unto the city, Peter went up upon the housetop to pray about the sixth hour: And he became very hungry, and would have eaten: but while they made ready, he fell into a trance, And saw heaven opened, and a certain vessel descending unto him, as it had been a great sheet knit at the four corners, and let down to the earth: Wherein were all manner of four-footed beasts of the earth, and wild beasts, and creeping things, and fowls of the air. And there came a voice to him, Rise, Peter; kill, and eat. But Peter said, “Not so, Lord; for I have never eaten any thing that is common or unclean.” (Acts 10: 9-14) 

Peter was on the house top and became very hungry, correct? And the Lord showed Peter all different types four footed beasts, creeping things, and fowls of the air. The Lord told Peter kill and eat, correct? But, what was Peter's responds? "Not so, Lord; for I have never eaten any thing that is common or unclean." This vision was shown to Peter three times. Note what the 17th verse states. 

Now while Peter doubted in himself what this vision which he had seen should mean, behold, the men which were sent from Cornelius had made inquiry for Simon's house, and stood before the gate, (Acts 10:17) 

Peter knew that the vision had a deeper meaning. So, what was the Lord trying to show Peter? Let's see what Peter's vision was all about. 

And the morrow after they entered into Caesarea. And Cornelius waited for them, and had called together his kinsmen and near friends. And as Peter was coming in, Cornelius met him, and fell down at his feet, and worshipped him. But Peter took him up, saying, Stand up; I myself also am a man. And as he talked with him, he went in, and found many that were come together. (Acts 10:24-27) 

Pay very close attention to the next verse! 

And he said unto them, “Ye know how that it is an unlawful thing for a man that is a Jew to keep company, or come unto one of another nation; but God hath showed me that I should not call any man common or unclean.” Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons: but in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him. 36The word which God sent unto the children of Israel, preaching peace by Jesus Christ: (he is Lord of all:) (Acts 10:28, 34,35)

So, was the Lord telling Peter its okay to eat things that are common or unclean? No! The verse states, "I should not call any man common or unclean." Peter now understood the purpose of the vision, which was the allowance of the Gentiles into the church of God that was set up by Moses in the wilderness. (Acts 7:38). Which is on the Sabbath day on the seventh day of the week, as written in the Bible. Now that we see Acts chapter ten has nothing to do with the "Dietary law"

16 hours ago, TheBlade said:

Really confused at why your stuck on just this one. If its so bad evil what not why are you giving it any glory? There is no power no gods no spells, no Druids you name it. It is odd just what you pick and choose to talk about as in LAW or OBEY. Greater is He that is in you then he thats in the world. Behold I have you power to tread  on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy and nothing shall by any means hurt you. Just those two verses do you notice there is no "only if".  Did we miss what the lord said when talking about meat offered to idols? This stuff only has power if you allow it and believe in it and man you keep talking about it not Him. 

Why not go after say "Holidays in Hell: Satanic Temple Colorado Gets in the Spirit With This Event. You don’t have to be a Satanist. We welcome everybody of all faiths and backgrounds. Dec 12 2023"

 its odd huh. Well Christmas some of world and some Christians will say is pagan blah blah blah and how its the wrong day..yet wont even offer up any other time to celebrate. 

See it is also written and can be applied here. Granted I don't think you care about those who listen (it just comes off that way sorry) but its wirtten

"Am I now trying to win the favor and approval of men, or of God? Or am I seeking to please someone? If I were still trying to be popular with men, I would not be a bond-servant of Christ."

No one is told to obey that no name random believer we know nothing what so ever about (I am in that). See they love Him and they're doing what they believe is right and if not.... hmm I think their Daddy their GOD can take care of them no? We do believe Hes real right and trust Him to do this? Or does He need more CP's Christian cops. 

 

I believe you know it's wrong and it's pagan, also you can't find nothing in the word of God to do it. 

Throughout the bible we find that in order to receive eternal salvation we must keep God's commandments to the end. If we make a mistake we must not give up, but I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus (Philippians 3:13-14). The last chapter in the whole bible reminds us of this one last time. "Blessed are they that do his commandments that they may have right to the tree of life." (Revelation 22:14). After this we find only seven more verses in the bible, and none of them does away with God's commandments. 

The commandments of God are not hard to keep (I John 5:3) and furthermore, they teach us love in the highest degree. If you love Jesus you will keep his commandments (St. John 14:15). You will not displease the Lord by: Worshipping other gods, having graven images, taking his name in vain, breaking his Sabbath day (which is Saturday not Sunday), or dishonoring your parents. On the other hand, if you love your neighbor as yourself you will not kill him, commit adultery with his spouse, steal from him, falsely accuse him, or covet anything of his. 

The mistletoe was a sacred plant in the pagan religion of the Druids in Britain. It was believed to have all sorts of miraculous qualities: the power of healing diseases, making poisons harmless, giving fertility to humans and animals, protecting from witchcraft, banning evil spirits, bringing good luck and great blessings. In fact, the mistletoe was considered so sacred that even enemies who happened to meet beneath mistletoe in the forest would lay down their arms, exchange a friendly greeting, and keep a truce until the following day. From this old custom grew the practice of suspending mistletoe over a doorway or in a room as a token of good will and peace to all comers. The kiss under the mistletoe; the token of good will and friendship; the omen of happiness and good luck and the new religious significance.

21 hours ago, Sower said:

I would consider your request more willingly, Bro Tan, should you answer my and other posters how you personally keep the sabbath that you say that all new testament believers are required to do according to your understanding of scripture. Evading the question causes us to wonder and I would rather actually hear what you have to say.

How do you personally celebrate the sabbath, from sundown to sundown?  Do you fulfill the requirements as did OT believers? A very simple and appropriate question.

Thanks, Bro Tan...         (Third and last request)...

The bible reveals that God blessed and set apart (sanctified) the seventh day. This day is holy unto God, and it is the only day of the week that we are commanded to honor. "Six days shall work be done: but the seventh day is the Sabbath of rest, an holy convocation: ye shall do no work therein: it is the Sabbath of the Lord in all your dwellings." (Leviticus 23rd)

In the scriptures it's written in Isaiah 58: 13 If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the LORD, honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words: 14 then shalt thou delight thyself in the LORD; and I will cause thee to ride upon the high places of the earth, and feed thee with the heritage of Jacob thy father: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it.

In Exodus 16: 22 And it came to pass, that on the sixth day they gathered twice as much bread, two omers for one man: and all the rulers of the congregation came and told Moses. 23 And he said unto them, This is that which the LORD hath said, To morrow is the rest of the holy sabbath unto the LORD: bake that which ye will bake to day, and seethe that ye will seethe; and that which remaineth over lay up for you to be kept until the morning.

21 hours ago, Your closest friendnt said:

Paul did not write letters to Hebrews(?). Paul wrote letters to the churches he established. He wrote letters address to a specific church he help to establish. 

Thank you for response, peace in Jesus name

8 hours ago, Vine Abider said:

@Bro.Tan this puts into words perfectly what I was thinking.  What you espouse is indeed "another gospel" - one of legalism, which born-again believers in Christ have been freed from.  It puts bondage on others that the Lord died to remove.

While I am not a strong advocate (by any means) for celebrating the Christmas holiday we have now, saying those who do are in peril of eternal damnation, is a gross misrepresentation of the love and work of Christ and our freedom in Him!

Let's take a look at what was said in 1 John 2: 7 Brethren, I write no new commandment unto you, but an old commandment which ye had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word which ye have heard from the beginning. 8 Again, a new commandment I write unto you, which thing is true in him and in you: because the darkness is past, and the true light now shineth.

Paul says in (Rom. 13:7-10) (v.7) Render therefore to all their dues: tribute to whom tribute is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honour to whom honour. (v.8) Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law. That’s the biblical definition of love, the keeping of God’s law. (v.9) For this, THOU SHALT NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, THOU SHALT NOT KILL, THOU SHALT NOT BEAR FALSE WITNESS, THOU SHALT NOT COVET; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, THOU SHALT LOVE THY NEIGHBOUR AS THYSELF. (v.10) Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law. 

And that is what God’s holy commandments are all about; the first four tells you how to love God and the last six tells you how to love your neighbor. If you love your God you will not do any thing to offend him, like having other gods before him. You will do as he says like remember the sabbath day to keep it holy on the seventh day of the week. If you love him you will obey him when he tells you not to eat certain meats etc… And the same goes for your fellow man, if you love your neighbor you wouldn’t steal from him, you wouldn’t kill him, you wouldn’t try and sleep with his wife and so on and so forth. (See exodus 20: 1-17) 

So if I'm a legalist because I follow the word of God, so be it. Better then being a illegalist. No prophet, apostles, even Jesus dealt with paganism, they all kept the Commandments, statues and judgements. But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him. He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked. (1John 2: 5,6)

20 hours ago, NConly said:

I do not see that in

Eph 2

Colos 2

Phillip 3

Acts 13

11 Corin 3

and other places

Let's go into Hebrews, because Paul explained this in; (Hebrews 10: (v.1) For the law (what law, the law of animal sacrifice?) having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect. (v.9) Then said he, (Jesus) Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first that he may establish the second. (v.10) By which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. 11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins: 12 but this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God; 13 from henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool. 14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

The point that is not understood is that we all have sin, but until Jesus came, there was no way of getting out from under your sins. So God institute a Priesthood and laws that went with the priesthood to control the sinning, and so the Lord use animal Sacrificial laws, even though it could not remove sins.

When Jesus died on the cross that was the end of the first covenant, which consisted of the blood of animals and the keeping of God’s commandments. And his death also brought in the second covenant, which consist of the blood of Jesus and the keeping of God’s commandments. (v.18) Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin. In other words, no more animals are going to die for your sins. (20) by a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh; (21) and having an high priest over the house of God; (v.26) For if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins. 

Now do we understand what’s being said here? If you sin willfully after you have knowledge of what the truth is, no more animals are going to die for you. (v.27) But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. Now if you are being deceived into believing that once you are under God’s grace you no longer have to keep his commandments, all you have to look forward to is the day of judgement and the lake of fire (fiery indignation). 

1 hour ago, Vine Abider said:

I don't think your response addressed what I stated at all . . . rather it goes off into the notion that once born-again, if we err, it's off to damnation we go.  Fine, as in various exchanges with you I know that's what you think (though - as per what you stated in an earlier post about not agreeing with those who are in error - I don't agree with that incorrect stance).

Regardless, I don't know how that aligns with the topic of this thread:  Celebrating Christmas . . . are you saying if someone celebrates Christmas they will go into damnation? (If so, this is pretty far out legalism in my mind)

Paul says in (Hebrews 10:26-27) 26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, 27 but a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

All of the word of God fits together, but you mention not having to keep the law, so I brought to your attention the law that we do no have to keep, which is the animal sacrificial law. The Commandments, statues and Judgements are still on the table. Throughout the bible we find that in order to receive eternal salvation we must keep God's commandments to the end. If we make a mistake we must not give up, but I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus (Philippians 3:13-14). The last chapter in the whole bible reminds us of this one last time. "Blessed are they that do his commandments that they may have right to the tree of life." (Revelation 22:14).

I rather be legal then illegal, because salvation is in your hands.

Many of our present Christmas traditions and symbols have historical roots in ancient paganistic rites related to Celtic, Druid, Roman or Nordic. Druid ceremonies were based on an eight-fold year. Four were solar and the other four were lunar. The Yule celebration is Dec. 22 or Winter Solstice. Yule is one of the eight festival days of the pagans. The Roman and Nordic invaders of Ireland had an influence on the prominence and significance of Yule. Yule, in both old Roman paganism and in Norse tradition, was the start of the New Year. Yule comes from a Nordic word meaning "wheel." The Christmas wreath is a symbol of the wheel of the year. Yule altars throughout paganism show the influence of Ireland and the Druids with their holly, pine and mistletoe coverings. Yule rituals enact birthing rites, ask for the sun god's return, and beseech that the wheel of the year be turned again. 

The very word "Druid" means wise man of the oak, or "One who has knowledge of the oak." The custom of lighting a Yule log is an ancient Druid practice. A log, usually of the god-related oak tree, is carved into a small section which is brought into a dwelling. Holes are drilled into the log and candies inserted. The entire log is then decoratively covered with holly and evergreens to represent the intertwining of god and goddess, or male and female elements. Hopes for fertile crops, herds, and families are invested in the Yule log image.

Consider the habit of putting up lights. The profusion of lights on house and tree at Christmas time is a carry-over of the candles and fires lit in sympathetic magic to lure back the waning sun. Today it's still an Irish custom to leave lights burning all through the house on midwinter night to honor the sun's return. Fires and lights, symbols of warmth and lasting life, have always been associated with the winter solstice festival of the pagans.

On 12/12/2023 at 5:09 PM, Starise said:

All of this over a Christmas tree? Seriously?

Can you name another Pagan Holiday that has the name of Christ mix up in? I can.