AlexDofTX

I am not a Lutheran, but I thank God that Lutherans still remember Reformation Day. I find everything about Halloween repugnant and repulsive. It grieves me to see the celebration of demons and death. Why should children be taught to beg as a good thing? Or expect treats when they do nothing more than dress up as ghosts. Nor do I care for many Protestant alternatives with their Fall Festivals which is no better than Earth Worship, or the earth goddess Gaia? But Reformation Day is something all Protestants should celebrate. On October 31st, 1517 Martin Luther nailed his 95 Thesis denouncing the papal sale of indulgences which sparked the Protestant Reformation by which millions of Europeans found the new birth, and the seed was laid for a new country built upon biblical principles AKA the United States. Thank you Lutherans for keeping this true holy-day alive. Since this is the 500th anniversary, perhaps some element of the Gematria might occur. The number 5 is the number of grace and the number 10 is the number of divine perfection. Perhaps a multiplication of 100 will be significant.

This first group I would not consider to be wolves, but seekers on the wrong path. This second group, however, I would defnitely regard as wolves. I would also add Satanists pretending to be Christians so they can infiltrate a group and cause havoc. This third group I would call Carnal Christians who know Christ but live by their natural understanding and their flesh. The non-Christians I would put in group 1 whose pride blinds them from the truth. This fourth group I would call legalists. Believers who are still justifying them selves and have never understood the grace of God, except when they need it for themselves. Most of what you write here are signs of sincere followers of Christ, with some exceptions that should be added to your first set of possible wolves. There is almost always a witness in my spirit when I speak with true disciples of Christ. Fruit is seasonal. There should be some fruit but that does not mean that necessarily there will be abundant fruit. Likewise fruit is a litmus for wolves because Jesus was talking about identifying wolves in sheep's clothing when he said, By their fruit you will know them. I would add this to your fourth group above as believers that are legalistic. This is a hallmark of a mature believer versus a young believer. Again, mature believers instead of young believers. By their very lack of experience young believers naturally gravitate for a list of rules. As Hebrews (5:12) says, strong meat belongs to those who by reason of use have learned to discern good and evil. Inexperience still needs rules as a guide. This is another characteristic of either a true wolf from category two above, or a legalist from category four who needs to convince others that they are right so they can bolster their own self justification. Hebrews 5:12 again in maturity, since you are clearly a mature Christian, brother. Excellent conclusion. We are to reach out to as many people as we can and they come in all kinds of conditions. This is the most thoughtful answer to my question that I have read so far. Thank you again for your feedback.

Thank you for a comprehensive answer. Of course as you indicate, not all these people are wolves in sheep's clothing. However, it is an extremely practical summation on dealing with believers and non-believers alike with the intent of turning them towards Jesus. By the way, I updated my avatar. I took a selfy and used a graphics program to place my eyes, nose and mouth over the artwork of Polycarp. I have not been on this site for a while since CF let me back on their site. But anytime you speak, where ever it may be, I will read what you write, because what you say is always that good. Thanks friend. PS I copied what you had to say so I could save it to my files. Great points!

God's Elect is Jesus. All who abide in Christ are God's Elect.

While our created minds can not comprehend an existence that has always been, God did not come into being, He simply is, hence his name, I AM.

First of all, that is not God talking but Jesus. Jesus has a dual nature: man and God and he was speaking as a man. So the man Jesus was given all authority by the Spirit of God. Second, the word "authority" means "the author". God is the author of all creation, therefore the authority rests in him as the first cause.

I will list verses later.

Yes because he voluntarily laid his life down by accpeting our sins upon himself. If had not, he would not have died.

Very tired right now, will get back to you later.

You are half right, believing is an action. But study is not believing. Doing is believing. Study may give you a guide on what to do, but the mere act of study without acting upon it is the source of carnal pride and weariness of the flesh.

That is not what I said nor meant. I meant imagining him in our reading is not necessarily how he looked just as what we imagine what radio talk show people look like is rarely correct. I do not agree that our spirit is our intellect. The mind is the realm of the soul, not the spirit.

Being hungry, thirsty, sorrowed or tempted does not mean his body aged as we understand it. He experienced everything we experience because of sin on the cross. On the cross he became sin who knew no sin. There he experienced aging, so much so that Isaiah said that he was marred beyond recognition. His being marred was not due to the scourging or crucifixion. It was because the sins of the world were put upon him.

Oh brother, give me a break. Think about what I am saying not what you think I am saying.

He became the last Adam, perfect without sin. He was fully human as Adam was fully human before he sinned. We should not assume being fully human means with a fallen nature.

Jesus was 33 years old when he died. I don't want him to be 21, I am thinking of what it means to have been sinless. I don't understand why so many people think that his being fully human means he had a body that was corruptible. He was fully human as the first Adam was fully human which is why he is called the last Adam. As far as his being our high priest, he knows all that we experience in sin because he became sin who knew no sin on the cross. When the sins of the world were placed upon him, then he knew the infirmity of aging as well as all sickness and debilitations. Jesus was perfect just as Adam was perfect. If Adam had not sinned he would have eaten from the tree of life and never died. Jesus is the tree of life, thus would not die. All I am addressing is his appearance, nothing more.

We need to consider death from two points: one is regeneration and the second is as our enemy. It is not possible for anything to grow without cells dying then being replaced through regeneration. Natural healing of torn tissue is done through regeneration. Regeneration has two uses: maturation and replication. Maturation, of course, is the process of growth from infant to adult. Replication is the sustaining of adult life. Death as our enemy is the God created system of regeneration gone awry so the process is slightly off. This is what came after Adam and Eve sinned. Before their sin, they still ate food. What happened to the food? The plant material went into waste back to the earth where decomposition broke the materials down returning it to soil. Ecology in paradise was symbiotic where everything worked in harmony together. After the Fall of Mankind, ecology was bent towards parasitic where life took advantage of other life with no benefit in return. Jesus needs to be understood in two ways. As the Word, He is eternal with no beginning nor end. As the son of man he was created with a beginning, but without sin. Since he had no sin, death as an enemy had no place in him, therefore he could not die until he accepted our sins upon him. He was resurrected because it was no his sin that killed him, but ours. You may see no reason to think deeper on this, and that is fine because these thoughts have no impact on our salvation. But I like to think deeply on all that God has done because I marvel about him and what he has done. Thank you for your response.

Or they are seeing God from a church cultural image.

This is pondering the Word of God, for Jesus is the Word and his life is the center of all my thoughts.

Your answer is a common one. Most people believe as you do. But the question begs itself, since he had no sin, he could not die, for death is the result of sin. If he did not go on the cross and take our sins voluntarily upon himself he would have lived forever. Most people don't believe that, but I do. He could not die with out our sins. Aging is the result of sin, not cells created new as old cells, thus we die naturally if we don't die prematurely. Thank you for your input.

That question means nothing. Our imagination has no spiritual significance in this regard. How many times have you listened to a radio host and imagined what he or she looked like solely by their voice, then when you see a photograph of the them, they looked nothing like what you imagined.

In general I am talking about a societal standard where everyone knows already because it is taught at home, schools, and in churches. Speaking to individuals depends on the individual and the circumstance as led by the Spirit. On another forum I was banned, then later reinstated, because a man in an advise thread admitted that he had a 10 year relation with a woman he did not marry and sired 5 children, then married a woman for 3 years and divorced her after siring two more children, and was currently living with another woman. The man claimed to a be Christian (Catholic). I was stunned by his absolute irresponsibility and made one statement, "Wow, you sired 5 bastards." He was infuriated and reported me. The forum already leans towards political correctness and warned me. As I explained to the moderators I felt the statement was valid because it was true. They argued that while it was true I could have said "illegitimate" instead of "bastard" which has a insulting connotation. I believed that man needed a shock to wake him up to his dismal lifestyle and lack of Christian behavior. They banned me for arguing with the moderators. They later relented and invited me back. I still use their site, but am careful about the water I walk on. At this site, so far, it seems both the members and the moderators stand for Christ and the Bible and do not bow the knee to political correctness. That is solid footing to walk on, whereas the other site is more watery and I have to be careful where I tread. But you are right, Heleadethme. On a one on one basis, I usually want to edify, not condemn because that is the way of Christ. That example I just gave is the exception not the rule. That man had a hard heart and was totally unaware of the great damage he has done to the mother, the children and his last wife.

At work I was talking to a co-worker on this topic, and a realization came to me. Tithing to a church is not sowing and reaping. Paul said, 1Co_9:11 If we have sown unto you spiritual things, is it a great thing if we shall reap your carnal things? In other words, since they had ministered spiritual things to them, they should reap material wealth from them. When a congregation tithes to the paid staff, they are not sowing, they are the harvest of the staff. Now the staff may take that money and sow it into other ministries or needs, but it is not the congregation that is sowing, it is the staff that is sowing. We may think that because we labored to earn the money, that we are sowing, too, when they reap us as their harvest, but I don't think that is the case. This conversation with my co-worker was about a fellow employee who has lived in near poverty her whole life, yet she has faithful tithed to the various congregations she has attended. That is when the thought came to me that she has never sown in that way, because she is the harvest being reaped.

We are looking at two sides of a coin. Sin always brings its own condemnation. Once the sin occurs, it is not the place of Christians to condemn, but to restore. We are in agreement. However, we are called to be salt and light. This is the other side of the coin I was addressing. We are to stand up for what is right and to declare what is wrong. The church is not salt and light anymore because many do not stand up and declare what is right and wrong anymore. When the church is salt and light, sin is prevented. That is what I was saying. Those two uses of the word "bastard" in the Bible do not have spiritual meaning first, they have material meaning first. Without the material meaning, the spiritual meaning is lost. To say in Deut. 23:2 that "a bastard shall not enter the congregation of the Lord" can not be understood spiritually in the sense that you have to be in covenant with God, if there was no understanding that a child born out of wedlock did not have the covenant of marriage first. And, as an expression of foul language it is only foul because it is still remembered that children born of fornication are children born of sin. This is why the Pharisees accused Jesus of being an illegitimate child and could not believe he was the Messiah. Political correctness is not new. It has influenced the church for centuries even though the term is new. Euphemisms have been used for centuries which cause the language to change in meaning. Euphemisms have a place, of course. We don't want to rob children of their innocence by saying things to directly when it is something that they do not need to know until adulthood. But in general, euphemisms are used to cover sin so as not to remind people of the shame that goes with sin. I told you of my own perversion. It is a shame to me that I had done such things, and when I became a Christian I apologized to my sister for my behavior. But I have no shame now, because I walk in the light and have been transformed. Every sin carries consequences and as a new believer I had many years of undoing those consequences in my life. Specifically, fornication trains men to view women as objects, not people. It took the Lord a long time working with me to get my mind in the right frame. Your child is still your child and is the love of your life. That should never be taken from you, but the consequences of its birth still has to be worked out by the Lord, your child and you. If your child is a believer then such a thing becomes a part of the past and someday will be forgotten. Words matter. Jesus said we will be judged by every idle word that comes out of our mouths. Words have positive and negative impacts. What seems negative in the moment may actually be positive in the long run, and what seems positive in the moment may actually be negative in the long run. The enemy of our souls knows this better than we do, which is why political correctness seems right in the moment, but is deadly in the long run. We should be the masters of the words, not the enemy.

I understand your point of view. However, these thoughts come to my mind. In the historical past when shame was publicly endorsed by using such terms as bastards or perverts, few indulged in the activities that created illegitimate children or perversion. Of course, some people still did. Children were still born out of wedlock and homosexuals still engaged in their perversions, but the number of them was quite small. Today, now that shame has been politely covered with euphemisms and these activities are openly endorsed, the number who engage in such activities is exponential. If you lived in the era when it was disgraceful to have children out of wedlock you may not have had your child. Shame is important in a society that wants to live righteously to prevent shameful acts from happening in the first place. That being said, I also realize two other points. You admitted to feeling shame anyway and were glad it was not compounded by others calling it disgraceful by using such terms. I also experienced that, too. When I was 12 I committed incest with my sister. I was raised in an atheist family that was sexually immoral and encouraged sexual immorality. Nonetheless, my divorced father came to our home to visit and caught me in the act with my sister. I was totally mortified that I was caught. He tried to encourage me by telling me that when he was a youth he committed incest with his sister and that it was alright. But his words did not dissuade my shame. [I admit, I was a pervert. Not only with incest, but as a fornicator, but now I am a new creature in Christ, and those old things have passed away] The truth is, that experience was an element in my believing in Christ when I was born again at the age of 32. Right and wrong is in the heart, regardless of what people say. My point in telling this story regards a Christian perspective. Once the deed is done shaming people is useless. They already know what they did was wrong. Helping them after the fact in getting their lives together and loving people and accepting them is the way of Christ. We should also remember that God loves people and wants children born. He wants them born in committed marriages because that will give the children the better upbringing, but he wants them born, nonetheless. So you child is precious in His eyes and He loves him or her dearly. And, as I said before, right and wrong are in everyone's heart. Your child knows he or she is a bastard, or will know simply in the course of growing up. So there is no need to increase condemnation. Finally, this last thought comes to my mind. Depending on how it is said, it is possible you may have come to Christ (if you were not a Christian at the time) sooner if people had not disguised the situation with euphemisms, but matter of factly stated the child is a bastard. What I mean is that many do not come to Christ until they hit rock bottom, and that might have been a catalyst to throw you to rock bottom sooner driving you to cry out to the Lord sooner. It could also make you more defensive if condemnation was laid on you instead. It could make you hunker down and say "to heck with God, I will live as I please." I do not write to say these happen every time, but history supports what I am saying.

Correct. I mean that followers of Christ are wild in contrast to those who conform to the world system because they care not for the world system and are willing to go against the system. Sadly, too many Christians who conform to the world regard the wild followers of Christ as rebels in the negative sense. Yet we are rebels in the positive sense in that we throw off the yoke of tyranny.