MyLordsServant

Luke welcome, mate. I see you've already started experiencing some of the senseless opposition. Don't get dragged into these empty debates of virtual nullity. You'll be thrown down a rabbit trail of nonsense. Some people have a habit to twist concepts and opinions, in order to correct them. Even the most fundamental and basic concepts you present, will be interrogated from the first word to the last. Otherwise, people tend to disregard what you say completely, and provide you with their almighty and powerful wisdom. Logical responses should be considered, but again don't be pulled in. It's best to ignore with love, peace and patience. Don't get discouraged, stay strong brother.

That's not describing Jesus as the cornerstone. Irrelevant verse.

I'm not saying he isn't the corner stone. If you carefully read what I say in the OP, you'll understand. The corner stone can be the top of a triangular pyramid. All I'm saying is, the pyramid(object) fits better than the corner of a building foundation.

Be kind, friends.

For sure. It's not something worth getting into strife over.

"‘The stone the builders rejected has become the cornerstone. This is from the Lord, and it is marvelous in our eyes’? Therefore I tell you that the kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a people who will produce its fruit. He who falls on this stone will be broken to pieces, but he on whom it falls will be crushed." How can the corner be the head, if there's 4 corners? How can you fall into a corner at the bottom, and be broken to pieces? Would make more sense, that Jesus refers to a pyramid. The head corner, being the top of the pyramid. "What are you, O great mountain? Before Zerubbabel you will become a plain; and he will bring forth the top stone with shouts of "Grace, grace to it!"

Amen brother. It is incredibly simple, and so much so, that it's easy to look past the simplicity, and make it complicated. I believe people are assuming and referring to perfection as instantaneous: boom, no more sin forever. Rather than realizing, it's something that's matured in, and worked on with patience, prayer and fasting. And we do not do these things, because we believe it will save us. But because we love Jesus, and therefore keep his commandments. "If you ask Me anything in My name, I will do it. If you love Me, you will keep My commandments. And I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Advocate to be with you forever." Do you love Jesus enough to keep his commandments to perfection.

If you don't sin for 5 weeks, and die on that 5th week, didn't you end with a sinless close to life? For some people this could be 5 seconds to death, without sin. Then why not 2 years or 2 decades? Is it impossible? It's unlikely, but it's possible. All is possible through Jesus, if we ask and pray, and strive for perfection. When I say sinless, I mean you have sinned, but from the point you sinned, until the next sin or until death. But the simple fact the striving for perfection is gone, it will lead you nowhere good. Everyone here preaches, "don't sin, don't sin, follow commandments". But as soon as you say, "I will strive to follow commandments and not sin, and ask the Father for help in perfection", then everyone has a problem all of the sudden.

The term metaphor passes you. You claim "you are not Jesus", yet ignore your friends claim of "Pharisee". So do you sin when you sleep? or eat? Do you sin every second of existence? Or do you agree that it's possible to avoid sin for more than 5 seconds? If so, then why not a lifetime? Poking and pointing fingers at "false doctrine", with weak responses doesn't qualify. Especially when you have no foundation of scripture. Other than making empty statements of your opinion. Also blanketing your friends sourness, by assertion of "false doctrine", doesn't qualify.

Why were Pharisees sour with Jesus? Why did they crucify him for speaking the truth?

Take a look at my threads.

1) I know, because I type out a full 3-5 paragraphs, and within 5 seconds, you hit the button. Who knows, maybe you can read 50 words/second. 2) I plan to pray for you, brother.

Why such sour people on this forum?

1) If you want to talk to Yowm without having anyone reply, go to private messenger. 2) I didn't make any presumption, other than state the fact that you said, "demand", which you couldn't defend your reasoning for. 3) Ignoring a fellow Christian isn't Christian like. Also I think your "Oy Vey" button is broken. Hitting it on every post of mine, without even reading what I write, simply because you don't agree. I could write, "Praise God", and you would throw an "Oy Vey".

Demand? Interesting, I'd like to know how you came to that conclusion. At what point does 'asking' become 'demanding'. Like one post stated, can you be sinless for more than 5 seconds. Yes, so why not your entire life. Everyone misinterprets "If we say we have not sinned, we make Him out to be a liar, and His word is not in us." I have sinned, but I have been sinless for the last 5 seconds.

If Jesus came to earth and said: "Yowm, be perfect, go and sin no more". What would you say? "Sorry, Jesus no can do, I'm a sinner for life. I'll be perfect once you take me to heaven". Or instead, "Yes Master, help me be perfect". If it's so important to you, that you stay a sinner, then do as you will. And yes I mean, stay a sinner. When you deceive yourself to the point where you don't believe in perfection, you will indeed not be perfect. Nor have a full intent to at least strive for perfection through Jesus. But I will strive for perfection and ask my Father for help in doing so.

In case you missed the original post, I said to pray and ask for God to help us be perfect. Are you saying God can't make us perfect?

Who here said they were sinless? Who here accused another of sin?

When Jesus says "Be perfect", he isn't referring to be perfect in the after life. So what you're saying makes no sense. Is Paul your Jesus? Why does it matter that Paul hasn't attained perfection? If Jesus is perfect, then through him we can be perfect, like him. He was an example for us. "I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me." Philippians 4:13 Okay, I see you're reversing your logic now by saying, they definitions didn't say "sinlessness". What's the opposite of perfect? I've already proved by deducting the term, to meaning sinlessness. : Teleios(Greek): perfect, (a) complete in all its parts, (b) full grown, of full age, (c) specially of the completeness of Christian character. Mature(consummated) from going through the necessary stages to reach the end-goal. What's the end goal? To sin? No. What's the Christian character, to be complete in all parts and fully mature in Christ? Christian character = character of Jesus. Does Jesus sin? It is to be sinless. Choosing one synonym("complete") to help twist your doctrine, doesn't work.

Teleios(Greek): perfect, (a) complete in all its parts, (b) full grown, of full age, (c) specially of the completeness of Christian character. Mature(consummated) from going through the necessary stages to reach the end-goal. Perfect in Hebrew: blameless (22), blamelessly (1), complete (1), entire (1), full (1), intact (1), integrity (4), perfect (5), sincerity (1), unblemished (2), uprightly (1), who is perfect (1), whole (2), without blemish (12), without defect (36) Are you saying the translator doesn't know how to translate properly? I didn't translate or "cram" these as you say. Can you not deduct sinlessness from these synonyms which you ignored?

It is written: "Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity."

Teleios(Greek): perfect, (a) complete in all its parts, (b) full grown, of full age, (c) specially of the completeness of Christian character. Mature(consummated) from going through the necessary stages to reach the end-goal. What's the end goal? To sin? No. What's the Christian character, to be complete in all parts and fully mature in Christ? Christian character = character of Jesus. Does Jesus sin? It is to be sinless. Choosing one synonym("complete") to help twist your doctrine, doesn't work. Perfect in Hebrew: blameless (22), blamelessly (1), complete (1), entire (1), full (1), intact (1), integrity (4), perfect (5), sincerity (1), unblemished (2), uprightly (1), who is perfect (1), whole (2), without blemish (12), without defect (36). He tells us to be perfect. So yes, it is HIS WILL that we become perfect, like HIM. "Be perfect, like your FATHER IN HEAVEN IS PERFECT". So why would he not help us be perfect if we ask? Are you saying God is merely 'complete'? Not perfect? "I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me." Philippians 4:13 "Jesus declared. “Now” go and sin no more." John 8:11

Exactly, well said. Too many people are conditioned by false mega-church doctrines; "I will never stop sinning". They overestimate the power of Satan, and underestimate the power of God. "with God ALL things are possible". It is Gods will that we do NOT sin. If you do not do Gods will, what will happen? "Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity." Satan is weak and his only power is great deception. He has centuries and centuries of time, to slowly turn man from God. All throughout scripture we are taught that we can live without sin, but the deception of Satan convinces people otherwise. He twists scripture in a way that says, "you can't stop sinning, because I'm more powerful than God". Same as he twisted Gods words when he deceived Eve, and tried to deceive Jesus 3 times. For goodness sake! Jesus(God) became man to die for us and teach us how to be perfect! He even commands it! "Be Perfect"! Yet people still have the boldness to say, "you can't live without sinning". Absolute deception! This is how we battle deception: It is Written: "Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect."

You're saying not all things are possible for God? Where does it say in scriptures that Christians can't be perfect?

Next year? Where did you get this information?