ShinyGospelShoes

I have read each of their studies, and they are based upon the scripture. So I am not citing them for their 'opinion'. I am citing them for their conclusion based upon the evidence they gave from scripture. I have my own study on the subject here in quite some thorough detail (have you read it, or theirs?) - http://s000.tinyupload.com/index.php?file_id=13632827453459163007 If you have not read it, nor theirs, then I think this verse speaks to this situation: Pro 18:13 He that answereth a matter before he heareth it, it is folly and shame unto him. Pro 18:14 The spirit of a man will sustain his infirmity; but a wounded spirit who can bear? Pro 18:15 The heart of the prudent getteth knowledge; and the ear of the wise seeketh knowledge. Pro 18:16 A man's gift maketh room for him, and bringeth him before great men. Pro 18:17 He that is first in his own cause seemeth just; but his neighbour cometh and searcheth him.

Some comparison for thought: Dan 12:1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. Luk 13:25 When once the master of the house is risen up, and hath shut to the door, and ye begin to stand without, and to knock at the door, saying, Lord, Lord, open unto us; and he shall answer and say unto you, I know you not whence ye are: For when Jesus stands, probation closes, even as it had for the Jewish nation in AD 34: Act 7:55 But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God, Act 7:56 And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God. For another probation is soon to close, yes, for the whole world, even as it was in the days of Noe, when that door also closed: Gen 7:16 And they that went in, went in male and female of all flesh, as God had commanded him: and the LORD shut him in. Mat_24:37 But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. Mat_24:38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, Luk_17:26 And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man. Just as it was in the days of Lot, when the angels shut the door and the LORD approached from the east: Gen_19:10 But the men put forth their hand, and pulled Lot into the house to them, and shut to the door. When Homosexuality and all uncleaness try to break into the Church and assault God's people, you know that the end is near, when you see Marriage (the first of the twin institutions of God from the beginning) assaulted and distorted then you know that the assault upon the second twin institution is to shortly follow ... Rev_8:5 And the angel took the censer, and filled it with fire of the altar, and cast it into the earth: and there were voices, and thunderings, and lightnings, and an earthquake. This fills the Heavenly sanctuary with smoke, so that no man can enter, until the 7 last plagues are poured out: Rev 10:7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets. Rev_22:11 He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still. Jesus will "rise up", and cease His intercession, and come as King of Kings: Isa_14:22 For I will rise up against them, saith the LORD of hosts, and cut off from Babylon the name, and remnant, and son, and nephew, saith the LORD. Isa 28:21 For the LORD shall rise up as in mount Perazim, he shall be wroth as in the valley of Gibeon, that he may do his work, his strange work; and bring to pass his act, his strange act. Psa_3:7 Arise, O LORD; save me, O my God: for thou hast smitten all mine enemies upon the cheek bone; thou hast broken the teeth of the ungodly. Psa_7:6 Arise, O LORD, in thine anger, lift up thyself because of the rage of mine enemies: and awake for me to the judgment that thou hast commanded. Psa_9:19 Arise, O LORD; let not man prevail: let the heathen be judged in thy sight. Psa_10:12 Arise, O LORD; O God, lift up thine hand: forget not the humble. Psa_12:5 For the oppression of the poor, for the sighing of the needy, now will I arise, saith the LORD; I will set him in safety from him that puffeth at him. Psa_17:13 Arise, O LORD, disappoint him, cast him down: deliver my soul from the wicked, which is thy sword: Psa_44:23 Awake, why sleepest thou, O Lord? arise, cast us not off for ever. Psa_44:26 Arise for our help, and redeem us for thy mercies' sake. Psa_68:1 To the chief Musician, A Psalm or Song of David. Let God arise, let his enemies be scattered: let them also that hate him flee before him. Psa_74:22 Arise, O God, plead thine own cause: remember how the foolish man reproacheth thee daily. Psa_82:8 Arise, O God, judge the earth: for thou shalt inherit all nations. Psa_102:13 Thou shalt arise, and have mercy upon Zion: for the time to favour her, yea, the set time, is come. Psa_132:8 Arise, O LORD, into thy rest; thou, and the ark of thy strength.

No worries sister, any time. If you have any other questions for me on this, let me know, and I will try to get back to you as I am able. This subject is difficult for some, and I understand that, as I myself had to go through a worldview change when I was shown by the Holy Ghost in prayerful Bible study on it. Took me some time. God was patient with me, and so I ought to be with others.

Yes. You have understood correctly. Michael is just another name/designation/title for the Son (Jesus), just as Immanuel, or David, or Adam, etc is. For when I said: "... He is the one who is the express image of the person of the Father, He is Who is as God the Father is.", this is a reference to Hebrews 1:3, as well as Rev. 12:7; see also Exo. 15:11; 1 Kin. 8:23; Psa. 71:19; see also Deut. 33:26; 2 Chro. 6:14; Job 36:22; Psa. 35:10, 86:8, 89:8, 113:5; Jer. 10:6-7; Mic. 7:18.

The Love of God an my love in Him go with you.

Jesus is "the Angel (messenger) of the LORD (the Father)" (as already cited, and many more texts can be given) uncreated and eternal Son of the Father, equal to the Father, submitted to the will of His Father. The Son is not a created being of the angelic hosts. He is the Creator of the created angelic hosts (ie, Gabriel, Lucifer, Cherub, Seraphim, etc), and is the Ruler (Prince, Arch) over them. He is the one who is the express image of the person of the Father, He is Who is as God the Father is.

I am positive that the WTS has hidden the truth from their people for years on this, since they also would have studied this matter out, and attempt to prove Michael is Jesus, while hiding the Deity. They surely do know of the following:

Yes, not in question. I didn't say you said otherwise. I was making clear the distinction between Power and Will. The Father is all powerful, but does not will satan to be destroyed yet. The Son is equal with the Father, not in question. Also all powerful. He does the will of His Father.

Luk_22:42 Saying, Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done. Joh_10:30 I and my Father are one. (iow, they are in agreement, not the same Person/Being) Joh_5:30 I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me. Joh_6:38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. Not a matter of power (Jesus is Omnipotent). It is a matter of what the Father desires.

Kurios is the koine Greek for JEHOVAH (LORD) of the OT. Jesus rebuked in the name of the Father, as He did throughout all the NT. In Jude, He came as the Messenger of the Father to resurrect Moses (Romans 5:14, etc), having been the one who buried him. In office of the Highest Messenger He can only speak what the Father gives Him to speak. These texts were already provided in this thread. Again, compare Jude 1:9 to Zechariah 3: Zec 3:2 And the LORD said unto Satan, The LORD rebuke thee, O Satan; even the LORD that hath chosen Jerusalem rebuke thee: is not this a brand plucked out of the fire? Again, the Son (LORD), speaks what the will of the Father is, and refers the matter to the LORD (Father) by the LORD (Holy Ghost).

What most persons do not realize, is that this doctrine, is the very avenue to reach the WTS/JW persons who deny the deity of Jesus. This is the door by which to bring them into the Light, for if they were shown (for most do not know) who Michael really is, they would have to admit the Deity of Jesus. They have a mixture of Reformation and Catholicisms' doctrine on this.

Incorrect. All men, including Jesus worship God (the Father): Joh_20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God. All "angels" worship the Father. Your error is in the Persons/Beings.

Already addressed, and you did not rebut, you only disagreed (ie, your 'opinion', your 'apriori'): Hebrews 1:13 refers to the created (hence "maketh") angelic hosts, not the uncreated "Angel of the LORD" - Son of the Father, as we see in Hebrews 1:1-3, the highest Messenger sent from the Father. In fact, Hebrews states that the created angelic hosts (Gabriel, etc) are the "fellows" in office of messengers to the uncreated Son, who is the highest Messenger. Mat_21:37 But last of all he sent unto them his son, saying, They will reverence my son. Heb 1:9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows. Context? Hebrews 1 vs 7. Heb 1:7 And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire. The context of Hebrews 1:6 is the created angelic hosts, not the uncreated Angel of the LORD. Therefore, when it says, "Let all the angels ..." it only refers to the created "fellows" of the uncreated Son, and Highest Angel (Messenger) of the Father, as seen in Vs 1-3. You already admitted that the OT refers to the Son as the "Angel of the LORD", thus proving the point. Your assumption is in regards Michael not being the Son. You did not prove that the two are not the same Being. I gave very much evidence that they are.

Thank you. That just proves that not "ALL the angels" worship Christ, since the Son of the Father is an "Angel" (uncreated). You yourself just admitted it.

You may disagree all you desire, but without contrary evidence from scripture, all you have is your 'opinion', and that is not scripture, nor a reason to alter the position. You said, "The reasoning in your material and posts is incorrect." That is without demonstration on your part. Simply saying it, does not make it so. Show me specifically where I have erred and what specific material is incorrect by scripture. From my sources cited, the entire Reformation is against your position which is based upon scriptural exegesis and study, and much of the so called ECF.

Really? "ALL the angels"? Who is this verse (Malachi 3:1) speaking of: Mal 3:1 הנני שׁלח מלאכי ופנה־דרך לפני ופתאם יבוא אל־היכלו האדון אשׁר־אתם מבקשׁים ומלאך הברית אשׁר־אתם חפצים הנה־בא אמר יהוה צבאות׃ Mal 3:1 הנניH2005 שׁלחH7971 מלאכיH4397 ופנהH6437 דרךH1870 לפניH6440 ופתאםH6597 יבואH935 אלH413 היכלוH1964 האדוןH136 אשׁרH834 אתםH859 מבקשׁיםH1245 ומלאךH4397 הבריתH1285 אשׁרH834 אתםH859 חפציםH2655 הנהH2009 באH935 אמרH559 יהוהH3068 צבאות׃H6635 Mal 3:1 hin'niy sholëªch mal'äkhiy ûfiNäh-derekh' l'fänäy ûfit'om yävô el-hëykhälô häädôn ásher-aTem m'vaq'shiym ûmal'akh' haB'riyt ásher-aTem cháfëtziym hiNëh-vä ämar y'hwäh tz'väôt Mal 3:1 ἰδοὺ ἐγὼ ἐξαποστέλλω τὸν ἄγγελόν μου, καὶ ἐπιβλέψεται ὁδὸν πρὸ προσώπου μου, καὶ ἐξαίφνης ἥξει εἰς τὸν ναὸν ἑαυτοῦ κύριος, ὃν ὑμεῖς ζητεῖτε, καὶ ὁ ἄγγελος τῆς διαθήκης, ὃν ὑμεῖς θέλετε· ἰδοὺ ἔρχεται, λέγει κύριος παντοκράτωρ. Mal 3:1 ιδουG2400 INJ εγωG1473 P-NS εξαποστελλωG1821 V-PAI-1S τονG3588 T-ASM αγγελονG32 N-ASM μουG1473 P-GS καιG2532 CONJ επιβλεψεταιG1914 V-FMI-3S οδονG3598 N-ASF προG4253 PREP προσωπουG4383 N-GSN μουG1473 P-GS καιG2532 CONJ εξαιφνηςG1810 ADV ηξειG1854 V-FAI-3S ειςG1519 PREP τονG3588 T-ASM ναονG3485 N-ASM εαυτουG1438 D-GSM κυριοςG2962 N-NSM ονG3739 R-ASM υμειςG4771 P-NP ζητειτεG2212 V-PAI-2P καιG2532 CONJ οG3588 T-NSM αγγελοςG32 N-NSM τηςG3588 T-GSF διαθηκηςG1242 N-GSF ονG3739 R-ASM υμειςG4771 P-NP θελετεG2309 V-PAI-2P ιδουG2400 INJ ερχεταιG2064 V-PMI-3S λεγειG3004 V-PAI-3S κυριοςG2962 N-NSM παντοκρατωρG3841 N-NSM Who are these verses speaking of: Exo 3:2 And the angel of the LORD appeared unto him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush: and he looked, and, behold, the bush burned with fire, and the bush was not consumed. Exo 3:4 And when the LORD saw that he turned aside to see, God called unto him out of the midst of the bush, and said, Moses, Moses. And he said, Here am I. Exo 4:1 And Moses answered and said, But, behold, they will not believe me, nor hearken unto my voice: for they will say, The LORD hath not appeared unto thee. Exo 14:19 And the angel of God, which went before the camp of Israel, removed and went behind them; and the pillar of the cloud went from before their face, and stood behind them: Exo 23:20 Behold, I send an Angel before thee, to keep thee in the way, and to bring thee into the place which I have prepared. Exo 13:21 And the LORD went before them by day in a pillar of a cloud, to lead them the way; and by night in a pillar of fire, to give them light; to go by day and night: Exo 14:24 And it came to pass, that in the morning watch the LORD looked unto the host of the Egyptians through the pillar of fire and of the cloud, and troubled the host of the Egyptians, I think you have missed the distinction that scripture makes between the created angelic hosts (as Gabriel) and the uncreated Angel (Highest messenger of the Father), the Son.

Then you can only expect persons to misidentify when you make such statements. You cannot hold me responsible if you continue to withhold. I only asked in charity, not desiring to offend.

Joh_16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. This thread is about Truth, and refutation of error. Joh 17:17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth. Joh_17:19 And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth. For error cannot ever sanctify. Error does not ever become truth by age. Doctrine is more than theological ideology. It deals with the plan of redemption itself and the restoration of the image of God in mankind, and always deals with the character of God. God is shining great light from out of His word, and upon His word. Those who reject it, reject the light sent, which will only increase the darkess: 1Jn_2:8 Again, a new commandment I write unto you, which thing is true in him and in you: because the darkness is past, and the true light now shineth.

Hmm, I am curious then as to your raised faith, since I only know of the LDS faith that teaches that Jesus Christ and Satan's power were equal. You stated you grew up in a cult, so I naturally made such an connection. Apologies for my asking if that was the religion you referred to. Would you care to explain in brief what 'cult' you referred to, at least by name?

1/3rd part of the stars, Revelation 12:4 in part (full detail upon request): “And his tail” – The prophet that teaches lies (Jhn. 8:44; 1 Ki. 22:22-23; 2 Chr. 18:21-22), and that which is last on a body (Deut. 28:13,44), also likened unto the small stick or ‘rush’ (Isa. 19:15; Mal. 4:1), and ‘firebrands’ (that which is burning with smoke and fire (Amo. 4:11; Isa. 50:10-11); see Judg. 15:4; Isa. 7:4; one who ‘deceives’ Pro. 26:18-19); see Isa. 9:14-15; Eze. 28:18. “drew” – To lead by taking away, to separate from another; see Isa. 5:18; Act. 5:37, 20:30; Luk. 22:47; Heb. 10:38-39. Lucifer drew with lies, but God draws with love and truth, Son. 1:4; Hos. 11:4; Jhn. 6:44, 12:32; Heb. 7:19; Jam. 4:8. “the third part of” – Indicates that there are 3 parts, or 3/3rd’s; see 2 Sam. 18:2; 2 Ki. 11:5-6; 2 Chr. 23:4-5; Eze. 5:1-3,12; Zec. 13:8-9; Rev. 8:7-12, 9:15,18. God the Father, Son and Holy Ghost are the true Light (Jhn. 1:9; 1 Jhn. 1:5; Rev. 21:23), even Christ the Morning Star (Rev. 2:28, 22:16), the Day Star (2 Pet. 1:19), while the angelic hosts became divided, there are now holy and unholy (unclean) angels, all of whom are called stars (some fallen); see Job. 38:7; Psa. 147:4, 148:2-3; Isa. 14:13; Dan. 12:3; Mat. 2:2,7,9-10, 22:30; Mar. 12:25; 1 Cor. 15:39-44. “the stars of heaven” – Angels and men (and both apply here); see Gen. 22:17, 26:4, 37:9; Exo. 32:13; Num. 24:17; Deut. 1:10, 10:22, 28:62; Judg. 5:20; 1 Chr. 27:23; Neh. 9:23; Job. 25:5, 38:7; 147:4, 148:2-3; Isa. 14:13; Dan. 8:10, 12:3; Amo. 5:26; Mat. 2:2,7,9-10, 22:30; Mar. 12:25; 1 Cor. 15:39-44; Heb. 11:12; Jud. 1:13; Rev. 1:16,20, 2:1, 3:1, 12:4,7-9. “and did cast them to the earth” – to lower or bring down from an exalted position (such as Heaven, righteousness, holiness, godliness), to debase, to profane, make carnal, earthly; see Exo. 4:3; 2 Sam. 8:2; 2 Chr. 25:8; Job. 41:9; Psa. 36:12, 74:7, 89:44, 143:3, 147:6; Pro. 7:26; Isa. 14:12, 25:12, 26:5, 28:1-4, 29:4, 47:1; Lam. 2:1; Eze. 13:14, 19:12, 26:11, 28:17, 31:16; Dan. 8:7-12; Oba. 1:3; Luk. 13:7; Rev. 12:9,13.

John 10 and Psalms 82: John 10:24 - Then came the Jews round about him, and said unto him, How long dost thou make us to doubt? If thou be the Christ, tell us plainly. John 10:25 - Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me. John 10:26 - But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you. John 10:27 - My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: John 10:28 - And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. John 10:29 - My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. John 10:30 - I and my Father are one. This speaks of at-one-ment, of heart, purpose, not of persons. John 10:31 - Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him. They did this, because, Jesus just claimed full equality with God, that is, the person of the Father. He had done this before [John 10:25, "... I told you, and ye believed not ..."], with the same results: John 5:18 - Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God. John 8:57 - Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham? John 8:58 - Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am. John 8:59 - Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by. This would have been blasphemy [Leviticus 24:14; 1 Kings 21:10], and subject for stoning, had it not been that Jesus was who He said He is. John 10:32 - Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me? Jesus, then knowing that they do not believe His words, mercifully points them to His actions, deeds, the very miracles wrought, the lives of people delivered from satan, sin, disease, death. Many say that actions speak louder than words, and therefore, Jesus turned up the volume for them, that these willingly deaf might hear, and have no excuse for their own evil present course: John 10:33 - The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God. They unwittingly condemn themselves by acknowledging that the works of Jesus were "good works". They should have recognized then, the source of them, and recognize, that Jesus' actions, were matching His words, and have drawn the conclusion by following the result back to their source and see that the words were undeniably true, yet this they did not do, because they sought to justify themselves, and to justify their idea of what the Messiah/Christ ought to have been, and do. Jesus, having already told them [1], and shown them [2], that He was equal to God, that is the person of the Father, and did the very "good works" that the Father does, now attempts to show them from scripture [3] itself [rather than His present words, and present actions], who He is: John 10:34 - Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? John 10:35 - If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken; Now, Jesus cites the scripture [OT] itself, specifically Psalms 82:1,6, in its context [see also that the priests and rulers of the people are called by God, "gods" [Exodus 4:16, 7:1, 22:28; Psalms 138:1; Daniel 8:11,25, 11:36; 2 Thessalonians 2:3]], which in context, meant "children of the Most High" [Psalms 82:6], all "brethren" [Matthew 23:8; Hebrews 2:11], equally Kings and Priests, under God: Psalms 82:1 - A Psalm of Asaph. God standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the gods. There is a perfect parallelism: [1A] "... God ..." [1B] "... he ..." [2A] "... standeth in ..." [2B] "... judgeth among ..." [3A] "... the congregation of the mighty ..." [3B] "... the gods ..." Psalms 82:2 - How long will ye judge unjustly, and accept the persons of the wicked? Selah. Psalms 82:3 - Defend the poor and fatherless: do justice to the afflicted and needy. Psalms 82:4 - Deliver the poor and needy: rid them out of the hand of the wicked. Psalms 82:5 - They know not, neither will they understand; they walk on in darkness: all the foundations of the earth are out of course. Psalms 82:6 - I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High. There is a perfect parallelism: [1A] "I have said ..." [1B] "... and ..." [2A] "... Ye are ..." [2B] "... all of you are …" [3A] "... gods …" [3B] "... children of the most High." Psalms 82:7 - But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes. Psalms 82:8 - Arise, O God, judge the earth: for thou shalt inherit all nations. In so doing, Jesus refers to God Himself, being in the midst of the His people, while He being the true just Judge, they being unjust judges, God defending the poor, fatherless, needy, etc, they turing away from them. The very moment that Jesus cites this reference to the Psalm, is exactly the moment of the contrast between Himself, His words and actions, and their [the Jews, leaders, Pharisees, etc] words and actions. So, Jesus' [1] words demonstrated/vindicated who He is, and who they were, [2] His actions, the "good works", demonstrated/vindicated who He is, and who they were, and even [3] the very scripture itself in Psalms 82, demonstrated/vindicated who He is, and who they were. However, more than this, Jesus is drawing a greater argument from the text, notice: John 10:36 - Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God? Jesus, said "I am the Son of God", and in John 10:30, said, "I and my Father are one", which the "Jews" rightly understood Him, to make the claim that He was indeed equal to God, the person of the Father, when they said [John 10:33], "... thou ... makest thyself God." Is Jesus backtracking from making the claim to be God [not the person of the Father, but that of the Son], or backtracking from the claim that He was equal with God [person of the Father]? No. He is making a perfect air-tight case, from scripture, which cannot be broken [John 10:35], from the 'lesser' to the 'greater'. Jesus cited Psalms 82, saying that even the scripture called God's own people, "gods", meaning that they were to be just judges, even "children of the most High", and thus were all 'sons of God' in that sense, called to be like Him in character, words, actions, etc. Jesus had claimed to be the actual "Son of God", who from eternity was equal with the Father. Jesus is saying, since the scripture called the adopted persons 'gods', 'children of the most High', which none of them argued with, how much more then does the actual un-adopted, original, eternal, only begotten heir have claim to such, as "Son of God", and they all knew of the person from the OT, see "my fellow" [Zechariah 13:7], the person at the bush with Moses [Exodus 3 & 4, 23:21], with Joshua [Joshua 5:13-15], etc, etc, and the coming "son" [Isaiah 9:6] who was given from the Father. Therefore, which had the greater claim to the designation and responsibility, the actual Son of God, or those who were later called into the family of God, through adoption, whom were all called "gods", "children of the most High", "sons of God" [Genesis 6:2,4; Hosea 1:10; Ezekiel 16:21, etc]? How then could they stone Jesus, since the Messiah was the real Son of God, and they all only called and adopted? They would to have as soon stone themselves before they could rightfully stone Jesus for the rightful claim, which was superior in every way to their claim to such. Jesus is not saying that He is not God, nor lessening the arguments and words beforehand made, nor backtracking to save Himself, He, instead is making the perfect unarguable case, from scripture that He is who He said He is, drawing from the 'lesser' to the 'greater' example. Jesus finishes by pointing back again to His actions, which were fulfilling the very scriptures: John 10:37 - If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not. John 10:38 - But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him. John 10:39 - Therefore they sought again to take him: but he escaped out of their hand, They did not care about all three means by which Jesus sought to show them, because, they were unjust, and proved themselves so and stubbornly wanted to remain so. They could not refute Jesus' words, actions or scripture.

This is incorrect. "devils", are fallen (once holy) angels (Rev. 12:8-9; Jude 1:6; Luke 10:18; 2 Peter 2:4; Matthew 12:24; Mark 3:22; Luke 11:15,18; Revelation 18:2; Matthew 25:41; John 8:44; 1 John 3:8; Revelation 12:9; Ezekiel 28:15-19) and as such are beings, with "celestial ... bodies" (1 Corinthians 15:40), with heavenly "flesh" (1 Corinthians 15:38-39), rather than terrestrial (of this earth) and differing from the flesh of man-kind, being a differing kind, for they came from the worlds (Hebrews 1:2, 11:1; Isaiah 13:5; etc) above. They are not 'disembodied', for that is pagan theology, even neo platonic. Possession works by the devils not inhabiting the physical space of the body of mankind (hollywood garbage), but rather they take control of the mind/heart (John 13:2) through humans submitting themselves to them (as Eve), through which they then control the body, and as such the human becomes a channel, conduit, or medium to influence others. This may be demonstrated also in some detail. Nephilim are not 'dead looking for a host'. Again, that is hollywood error. The Bible says: Ecc 9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten. Ecc 9:6 Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun. Ecc 9:10 Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest. Psa_146:4 His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish. and so on. The very “sons of God” who rule the unfallen worlds, as Adam [Luke 3:38], the first [1 Corinthians 15:45,46,47], on earth had [Genesis 1:26,28; Psalms 8:5] before his fall, and the angelic “morning stars”: Job 1:6 - Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them. Job 2:1 - Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them to present himself before the LORD. Job 38:4 - Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding Job 38:5 - Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it? Job 38:6 - Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof; Job 38:7 - When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy? Side note, none of these Job texts, in regards the “sons of God”, are dealing with the Genesis 6-9 account and are not referring to created heavenly beings. Job 1:6, 2:1 deals with the timeframe in a period well after the flood, and Job 38:4-7 deals with the timeframe long before the flood, when the earth was created. The only texts in Job which are dealing directly with the timeframe of the flood, are Job 22:15,16,17, 26:5, and please notice it speaks of “men”. They (men) died in the flood and are buried beneath the earth and waves as per Job. Isaiah 14:13 - For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: Dualistic texts, for godly men [whose names written in heaven] and angelic beings [who physically are in/from heaven]: Psalm 29:1 - [[A Psalm of David.]] Give unto the LORD, O ye mighty, give unto the LORD glory and strength. Psalms 89:6 - For who in the heaven can be compared unto the LORD? who among the sons of the mighty can be likened unto the LORD? For more on who the “sons of God” are in Genesis 6:2,4, please see Luke 3:38; Genesis 4:26, etc., and for the daughters of men, see Genesis 4:16-24. See also the following for “sons”, “children”, “father” of the good, etc: Genesis 6:2,4; Deuteronomy 14:1; 2 Samuel 7:14; Isaiah 8:18, 9:6, 63:16, 64:8; Hosea 1:10; Matthew 5:9,45 6:9; Luke 3:38, 6:35,36, 11:2, 20:26; John 1:12, 11:52, 12:36; Romans 1:7, 8:14,16,17,19,21, 9:8, 9:26 [citing Hosea 1:10]; 1 Corinthians 1:3; 2 Corinthians 1:2, 6:18; Galatians 1:4, 3:26, 4:6,7; Ephesians 5:1; Philippians 1:2, 2:15, 4:20; Colossians 1:2; 1 Thessalonians 1:1, 3:11,13; 2 Thessalonians 1:1,2, 2:16; Titus 1:4; Philemon 1:3; Hebrews 2:10,13 [citing Isaiah 8:18], 12:7,9; 1 Peter 1:3; 1 John 1:3, 3:1,2, 5:2. See also the following for the “sons”, “children”, “father” of the evil, etc.: Genesis 3:15; Matthew 13:38; John 8:42,44; Acts 13:10; Romans 6:16, 9:8; Ephesians 2:2, 5:6; Colossians 3:6; Hebrews 12:8; 1 Peter 3:19 [compare to Psalms 142:7; Isaiah 42:6,7, 61:1; Luke 4:18], 3:20; 1 John 3:8,10,12, 4:4,5,6,7,8. See the following for comparison with the Genesis 6:2,4 account: See Abraham and Isaac in Genesis 24:3,37. See Esau and Jacob in Genesis 26:34,35, 28:8,9 [comparing to Jacob in Genesis 27:46, 28:1,6], 36:2. See Isaac and Jacob in Genesis 27:46, 28:1,6. See Jacob and Hamor in Genesis 34:9,14. See Moses in Exodus 34:15,16. See in Deuteronomy 17:17. See Balaam in Numbers 25:1,2,3. See in Judges 3:5,6,7. See Samson the Judge in Judges 14:1,2,3. See the Chronicles in 1 Chronicles 5:24,25. See Ezra in Ezra 9:1,2,11,12. See Nehemiah in Nehemiah 9:2, 10:28,29,30, 13:23,25,26,27. See Solomon in 1 Kings 11:1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8. Many “Sons of God” “looked”/“saw” [“saw the daughters of men that they [were] fair” and “took them wives of all which they chose” [Genesis 6:2]] and "beheld" [Just as did Samson, “she pleaseth me well”, or King David who went after Bathsheba, the wife of Uriah the Hittite and his friend, through covetousness had Uriah killed in action “from the roof he saw a woman washing herself; and the woman [was] very beautiful to look upon” [2 Samuel 11:2, 12:9] and Solomon who “multiplied wives” and “loved many strange women” and all Israel who took of the “daughters of the land”], and then “lusted and coveted” and so were ensnared being “Vex[ed], Beguiled, To Commit Trespass Against The LORD, Commit Fornication, Eat things sacrificed unto Idols, worshipped idols” [Numbers 25:18, 31:16; Revelation 2:14]: Jude 1:11 - Woe unto them! for they have gone in the way of Cain, and ran greedily after the error of Balaam for reward, and perished in the gainsaying of Core. See also the words of Jesus, as it was in the days of Noah and Lot: Job 21:7,14, 22:15,16,17; Matthew 24:37,38; Luke 17:26,27; 2 Peter 2:5, 3:3,6. In the greater overall picture there is a like message and call for the “people of God” also today to “come out” of “Spiritual Babylon” [just as God had done with physical Babylon; Jeremiah 51:9; Isaiah 52:11] that “great Whore” [Revelation 17:1, 19:2]: See 2 Corinthians 6:14,15,16,17,18; Revelation 18:4. For “giants” of men, after the flood, see: Genesis 10:8,9, 14:5, 15:20; Numbers 13:32,33; Deuteronomy 2:11,20,21, 3:11,13, 9:2; Joshua 12:4, 13:12, 15:8, 17:15, 18:16; 2 Samuel 5:18,22, 21:16,18,19,20,22; 1 Chronicles 11:23, 14:9, 20:4,5,6; Isaiah 17:5, 45:14 For “men of reknown” see: Numbers 1:16, 16:2, 26:9; 1 Chronicles 5:24, 12:30 For more details, please ask. You have a misunderstanding of the word "spirit" which may be demonstrated in thorough detail upon request.

Thank you for your time.

Your prerogative. No evidence contrary to was given by yourself, but still your prerogative.

Do you see the other highlighted words in Matthew 8:31, in green in your reply that I took the liberty of also highlighting? Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.