Larry H

According to Preterist and none preterist alike it was preached to the whole world. I took the liberty to checked some commentaries, and this is what I came up with. If Jesus wanted to refer to "the world" as we know it, he would have used the Greek word kosmos. Instead he used oikoumeneen which in Strong's Greek and Hebrew expanded Dictionary means specifically the Roman Empire. oikoumene. The details are as follows. People's New Testament This gospel of the kingdom, etc. The gospel was preached throughout the Roman empire, "the world" of the New Testament, before A. D. 70. Adam Clarke's Commentary Matthew 24:14 "Perhaps no more is meant here than the Roman empire; for it is beyond controversy that pasan teen oikoumeneen, Luke 2:1, means no more than the whole Roman empire: as a decree for taxation or enrolment from Augustus Caesar could have no influence but in the Roman dominions; but see the note at Luke 2:1" Barnes' Notes Matthew 24:14 [Then shall the end come.] When this general publication of the Gospel shall have taken place, then a period shall be put to the whole Jewish economy, by the utter destruction of their city and temple. [Then shall the end come] The end of the Jewish economy; the destruction of the temple and city. "Jesus said, “And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come” (Matt. 24:14). The good news had been preached to all the world by the time the book of Romans and the book of Colossians were written in the first century. Romans 10:18, “Their voice (the voice of those preaching the good news) has gone out into all the earth, their words to the ends of the world”. Col. 1:23, “This…gospel…has been proclaimed to every creature under heaven”. And shortly after the good news was preached in the whole world in the first century, the end of the Old Testament world came in fiery judgment in A.D. 70, at the destruction of Christ’s enemies." David Green

Hi Uriah Are the futurist suggesting. James 5:7 "Be PATIENT, THEN, BROTHERS, UNTIL THE LORD'S COMING" 8 "be patient and stand firm, because the LORD'S COMING IS NEAR" 1 James was misguided 2 Trying to put the brothers on their toes 3 The children of God should always look for His coming like a thief in night 4 James had it right and it did it come to pass in the first century.

Hi Uriah That is correct that the absence of historical material of the expectation of what the Parousia post AD 70 would bring to the first century Church is a dilemma, unspoken of, by the preterist community. In other words why the silence for three decades by the faithful living Apostle's, if there was one alive, or many other Christians? It would seem appropriate to write about the destruction of Jerusalem, and the demolition of the temple. Matthew 24 Not a word. It's observable there would be some people who witnessed the Parousia, and yet it is a documentation problem. Even so for the futurist. As one Full preterist put it, "Something is drastically wrong with this picture! The silence is SCREAMING -- a "deafening" silence so LOUD that even our critics have heard it. Why haven't we?" BTW according to the partial and full preterist view the book of Revelation was written sometime during Nero's reign. 66 AD. There are many scholars who take the early dating of Revelation.

Hi Uriah There were and still are Pastors across America with false prediction of the second coming in our future supplying atheist, and none believers with ammunition to debunk the bible. As they endeavor to come across a News Paper article to match their last days predictions. So far I have never encountered a futurist who doesn't sweep their guess work under a rug. While these authors inscribe calculation books, that are flying of Christian bookstore shelves, may be good educators of the bible, force Christians to doubt their views on last days eschatology. If the last days phrase in the New Testament only refers to the last days of the Mosaic polity the futurist has no place to go except to preteristic religious studies for solutions. So I advance with an open minds to be filled with the Spirit of God to make sure of all things, and hold on to what is fine in His sight. I'm sure just like yourself. God Bless

Hi Uriah ..... I would rather be called a Child of God, Christian, or just a Bible Student simply like yourself. They say Partial Preterism leads to full Preterism, which at the time seems like the right thoroughfare to take. To me this theology is exceptionally intriguing, but I would not want to be locked into a comfort zone of eschatology with it. Or any other. So I scrutinize it here with those considerably knowledgeable of the futuristic approach of last/days things.

Matthew 26:64 "Yes, it is as you say," Jesus replied. "But I say to all of you: In the future you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven." I'll run with that. So these dead folks while in their grave will see, in spirit, in some sort of way, the second coming of Christ in our future. And that is what Jesus meant when declaring judgment on the Sanhedrin. Who if fact according to the that idea had no idea what Jesus was talking about. Instead of Jesus and the Sanhedrin having in mind what Adam Clark's or Ken Gentry's said about the verse. Especially when considering Jesus and the Sanhedrin understood Daniel 7:13, and what it represented. Daniel 7:13 "In my vision at night I looked, and there before me was one like a son of man, coming with the clouds of heaven. He approached the Ancient of Days and was led into his presence. Adam Clark "[Thou hast said] That is, I am the Christ, the promised Messiah (see at Matthew 26:25;) and you and this whole nation shall shortly have the fullest proof of it: for hereafter, in a few years, ye shall see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, fully invested with absolute dominion, and coming in the clouds of heaven, to execute judgment upon this wicked race. See Matthew 24:30. Our Lord appears to refer to Daniel 7:13. One like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, etc." Or on the verse. Kenneth Gentry “The final collapse of Jerusalem and the Temple.. Through these events the Jews were to “see” the Son of Man in His judgment-coming in terrifying cloud-glory: clouds are symbols of divine majesty often entailing stormy destruction. The members of the Sanhedrin and others would experience such in their life times (Matt. 26:64; Mark 9:1; cf. Rev 1:7 with Rev 1:1,3).”

It a hard question to answer, and has baffled commentator for centuries, it has been a problem for many to interpret. Unless we leave the sense of the question, and the phrase "Clouds of Heaven" back where it belongs. I.e. the first century. When the high priest and some of the Sanhedrin would be living to witness the episode.

Hi William I'll try the question for a second time, since it wasn't answered or misunderstood in my last post.. "All capitalization's will be mine" DOES THE RESURRECTION OF THE DEAD PROCEED OR COME ABOUT PRIOR TO THE SECOND COMING OF CHRIST ON CLOUDS OF HEAVEN. IF IT IS AFTER how will those who tasted death in Matthew 16:28, and those who piereced him in Rev,1:7, and the high priest in Matthew 26:64 see the event. i.e. "BEHOLD, HE IS COMING WITH THE CLOUDS" "and every eye will see Him" In other words all those folks will be dead and not able to see the cloud coming of our Lord if the resurrection follows that coming. Matthew 16:28 I tell you the truth, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the SON OF MAN COMING in his kingdom." Matthew 26:63 But Jesus remained silent. The high priest said to him, "I charge you under oath by the living God: Tell us if you are the Christ, the Son of God." 64 "Yes, it is as you say," Jesus replied. "But I say to all of you: In the future you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and COMING ON THE CLOUDS OF HEAVEN." Revelation 1:7 Lo, he doth COME WITH THE CLOUDS, and SEE HIM shall every eye, even THOSE WHO DID PIERCE HIM, and wail because of him shall all the tribes of the land. Yes! Amen! YOUNG'S LITERAL TRANSLATIONS Kind Regards Larry

If anyone is interested there is an upcoming debate between two preterist concerning the Rapture. Don Preston My proposition: “The Bible teaches that 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18, i.e. the coming of Christ at His parousia in A.D. 70, was the return of God to man, to dwell forever, reuniting heaven and earth in spiritual fellowship and life, versus a departure or removal of the then living saints from the earth.” Ed Steven The theme by Ed Stevens is "Silence Demands a Rapture" suggesting that the Rapture is a first century event. The reason for that is that since there is no documentation following AD 70, the conclusion is those Christians were taken up in a Rapture. Leaving the preterist camp with a problem most of them don't speak about. https://www.preteristarchive.com/Hyper/2002_stevens_rapture.html I found various articles penned by full preterist concerning, "Expectations Demand a First Century Rapture." One taking the stand on a physical rapture in the first century, the other considering earth and heaven restored in AD 70 preceding the fall in the Garden of Eden .I.e. the temple of God. "The dilemma is by fact the silence following post AD 70. "The sheer volume of these 'expectation statements' which promise that they would 'know' when the parousia occurred, and 'see' it, and experience it, absolutely stunned me." "Then I was reminded again of the fact that not a single post-AD 70 writer, not even Apostle John (who was supposedly still around) or the "apostolic fathers" who supposedly wrote immediately after AD 70, mention the parousia as fulfilled at AD 70." Ed Stevens Contrary to this is "If a physical rapture or resurrection was the hope of salvation, what benefit does that give me who will continue on this earth until death? I know Ed would not dispute the advantages we Christians have today apart from the law, in perfect communion with God the Father, but can he adequately define what purpose there is to life in the here and now, if it is the hereafter that was the hope and focus of Paul and the first century Christians? Can he adequately describe what our benefit is, truly, if the expectation of the first century were in a disappearance? If the rewards that we are to be experiencing are so great, why did they need to be swept away from it?" Nathan DuBois

Thanks for posting this subject, and yes it's is interesting. But it astounds me how one can take the Olivet Discourse Matthew 24:1-34, and chop it up to little pieces of double and triple implications in a world thousands of years after it was penned. Instead of leaving the prediction in the first century where it belongs. And coming up with multiple interpretation, unrelated to each other, of the words of Christ when He said, "I tell you the truth, "this generation" will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened" I thought this article was interesting on the temple verses of the two witnesses. I'm sure this conclusion came up in the post. "Additional evidence that Jesus is the two witnesses is found in the Gospels. In John 12:49-50 Jesus says, “For I did not speak on my own, but the Father who sent me commanded me to say all that I have spoken. . . . So whatever I say is just what the Father has told me to say.” In John 8:13-18 Jesus echoes John 12:49-50 while calling attention to the fact that because He speaks the words of the Father His testimony is that of two witnesses. John 8:13-18 reads, “The Pharisees challenged him, “Here you are, appearing as your own witness; your testimony is not valid.” Jesus answered, “Even if I testify on my own behalf, my testimony is valid, for I know where I came from and where I am going. . . . But if I do judge, my decisions are true, because I am not alone. I stand with the Father, who sent me. In your own Law it is written that the testimony of two witnesses is true. I am one who testifies for myself; my other witness is the Father, who sent me"

Hi William I have a question concerning the second passage, how are the Sanhedrin going to see Christ coming on clouds of heaven in our future. Are they going to be resurrected prior to the that event to witness it. I believe it took some seven days to reach the Mount of Transfiguration. Jesus mentioned some who were standing there. would not taste death till they see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of God. Did all the others taste death within those seven days? If that is what Jesus was referring to in Matthew 16:28 This is the same scenario for Rev. 1:7 since they would be obviously dead at His second coming. How could they see Him? If you put some details in I will have some idea what you are getting at. And respond accordingly. Thanks before posting. Larry

What did Paul have in mind when He penned his letter to the suffering Christians in Rome. What was the earnest expectation? Romans 8:19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God. Philippians 1:20 I eagerly expect and hope that I will in no way be ashamed, but will have sufficient courage so that now as always Christ will be exalted in my body, whether by life or by death. Philippians 3:20 But our citizenship is in heaven. And we eagerly await a Savior from there, the Lord Jesus Christ, This is the Gospel of Christ below, and what the Apostles preached. One can only go to the highly symbolic book of Revelation to present a case. We can go there if you like. I'll get my soap box 1 Corinthians 15:1 Now, brothers, I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you, which you received and on which you have taken your stand. 2 By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain. 3 For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, A commentator Barnes' came to this conclusion concerning the verses in Romans. "Christians only have the prospect of deliverance. To them is held out the hope of final rescue, and of an eternal inheritance beyond all these sufferings. They wait, therefore, for the full benefits of the adoption; the complete recovery even of the body from the effects of sin, and the toils and trials of this live; and thus they are sustained by hope, which is the argument which the apostle has in view; Romans 8:23-24. With this view of the general scope of the passage, we may examine the particular phrases." My two cents also, and I'll raise you a penny God Bless and have a great day my brother All donations are excepted

Luke 17:20 Once, having been asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, Jesus replied, "The kingdom of God does not come with your careful observation, 21 nor will people say, 'Here it is,' or 'There it is,' because the kingdom of God is within you." The only way I see those verses concerning the animal kingdom in my estimation is if they represent the New Covenant of peace among brothers and sisters in the faith. Many who were once enemies like the Jew and Gentile have now become the body of Christ. Eph. 2 And the prospect of eternal life. John 5:24,25 in the house of God. At one time ......"But these, as creatures without reason, born mere animals to be taken and destroyed, railing in matters whereof they are ignorant, shall in their destroying surely be destroyed" 2 PETER 2:12 Matthew 7:15 "Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves . If preterism is a hard pill to swallow, don't swallow it. We would be going against your conscience at the time, however no theological denomination or group has a handle truth. BTW being a preterist is not like joining some club or denomination. Take what we see is truth, and leave out what we don't see biblical. "But test all things carefully [so you can recognize what is good]. Hold firmly to that which is good." 1 THESSALONIANS 5:21 Consider even preterist have their scriptural problems that some of them find hard to deal with, which I am researching at the time. But the concept holds many truths that are ignored by the Christian community. Did Jesus die for the animal kingdom, in a way He did. God Bless Larry just a bible student like yourself.

Hi George ....... I hate to beat an old horse to death, no pun intended. The book of Daniel speaks of the future "time of the end" however not "the end of time." which I believe was referred to .... in other words the end of history. Dan 12:4 But you, Daniel, shut up the words and seal the book, until the time of the end. Many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall increase.” WHY Daniel was told by an angel to seal up the book for the "Time of the end" " So when the prophet received the prediction concerning what was at a considerable distance of time, he shut his book" Many years later in the book of Revelation, John is told not to seal up the prophecy in the book because the eminent time frame Revelation 22:10 Then he told me, "Do not seal up the words of the prophecy of this book, because the time is near. Revelation 22:10[Seal not the sayings] Do not lay them up for future generations; they concern the present times; they must shortly come to pass, for the time is at hand. See above, Revelation 22:6. What concerned the Jews was certainly at hand. Adam Clarke's Commentary Revelation 22:6 The angel said to me, "These words are trustworthy and true. The Lord, the God of the spirits of the prophets, sent his angel to show his servants the things that "must soon take place." Far from Dan's day Near to John's day. Which begs the question far or near from what. Daniel 12:7 "they will not end until three and a half years after the power of God's people has been crushed" Sound to me like the three and a half year "War of the Jews" finalized by the destruction of their temple in AD 70. "power of God's people has been crushed" Daniel 12:4[Many shall run to and fro] Many shall endeavour to search out the sense; and knowledge shall be increased by these means; though the meaning shall not be fully known till the events take place: THEN the seal shall be broken, and the sense become plain. This seems to be the meaning of this verse, though another has been put on it, namely, "Many shall run to and fro preaching the Gospel of Christ, and therefore religious knowledge and true wisdom shall be increased." This is true in itself; but it is not the meaning of the prophet's words. Adam Clarke's Commentary Is this the observable thing to the eye you mentioned in our day. Who were the Holy people spoken of in verse 7

Hi William. Not all Jews, there were many then and now who became followers of Jesus. It is of my opinion the kingdom of God was establish in the first century, and there were some Jews who listen to the words of Christ who witness it. References below. Matthew 16:28 I tell you the truth, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom." Matthew 26:64 "Yes, it is as you say," Jesus replied. "But I say to all of you: In the future you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven." That's because the first century religious leaders had the mistaken idea regarding the kingdom, their minds were set on corporal things. Instead of having their mind set on the things above. However Jesus set them straight. Luke 17:20 Once, having been asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, Jesus replied, "The kingdom of God does not come with your careful observation, 21 nor will people say, 'Here it is,' or 'There it is,' because the kingdom of God is within you." The kingdom of God permeates in the hearts of men, men born again each day by entering the "paradise of God" and partaking of the "tree of life." Where does Jesus or the Apostle speak of an earthly paradise, and all the trimming that go along with it. Outside of the very symbolic book of of Revelation. Or the suggestion that our Lord was crucified for the animal kingdom also, the only restoration I see in scripture is man's relationship with God through Christ. Romans 5:1 And that restoration has already taken place with those of faith in God's arrangement. I believe Christians should not get into the habit of making predictions, or near prediction happenings. Deuteronomy 18:18 I will raise up for them a prophet like you from among their brothers; I will put my words in his mouth, and he will tell them everything I command him. 19 If anyone does not listen to my words that the prophet speaks in my name, I myself will call him to account. 20 But a prophet who presumes to speak in my name anything I have not commanded him to say, or a prophet who speaks in the name of other gods, must be put to death." Larry

Malachi 3:1 "See, I will send my messenger, [John the Baptist} who will prepare the way before me. Then suddenly the Lord you are seeking will come to his temple; the messenger of the covenant, [Christ] whom you desire, will come," says the LORD Almighty. In the last book in the OT one would think it's prophecy of blessing, instead it is a message of doom. Malachi 4:1 "Surely the day is coming; it will burn like a furnace. All the arrogant and every evildoer will be stubble, and that day that is coming will set them on fire," says the LORD Almighty. "Not a root or a branch will be left to them. When was this fulfilled?

"It was revealed to them that they were not serving themselves but you, when they spoke of the things that have now been told you by those who have preached the gospel to you by the Holy Spirit sent from heaven. Even angels long to look into these things." 1 Peter 1:12 "the word of the Lord stands forever." And this is the word that was preached to you". 1 Peter 1:25 Your brother in Christ Larry

I see it this way, there is no evidence the apostles considered a dual twofold prediction concerning the end. Or have multiple meaning of prophecies. Many say I didn't see this or I didn't see that happen in the first century. The simple answer is they didn't see the crucifixion also. So if Jesus predicted that event would soon take place, then they did. Just as He said it would. No matter how those Happenings are interpreted. Or what they represented in the Olivet Discourse. Matthew 24:34 I tell you the truth, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened. "This generation" expression is about 10 time used in the NT and always refers to the audience of Christ in the first century. Example Matthew 23:35 And so upon you will come all the righteous blood that has been shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah son of Berekiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar. 36 I tell you the truth, all this will come upon this generation Audience Relevance is of the most important when considering the NT text. In many places it speaks of thing in the future to come, however it was future to the first century audience and history to us. weather it be spiritual or literal. Matthew was as all the other letters were written between the transitional 40 period between the cross and AD 70. And most if not all were fulfilled in that time frame according to the preterist view of things. Which seems to me to make sense, and not drift into the imagination of those who predicted a no show of Christ. God Bless and thank you for the prayer

"The word angel here is the Greek word [aggelos] meaning messenger, and is the "exact" same word translated messenger throughout New Testament scripture" Who is The Messenger of The Covenant who came down from heaven to bind Satan in Revelation 20, just asking those who are familiar as I am with the term.

"Typical and symbolic nature of the Old Testament" I appreciate the foremost picture you referred to In my estimation good job well explained. Stop me if I am wrong, Israel's worship under the OC shadowed, school mastered, the good things to come i.e. "the reality found in Christ" Col.2:16,17 "Almost everything, if not everything, in the OT pointed to Him. In like manner the NT points to the second coming. I'll run with that, Jesus die to end one age of shadows and symbols, to set in motion a supplementary age of shadows and symbols. In like manner we have the second coming of Christ in our future ending, finalizing, redemptive history. It begs the question, were the Apostles aware of this scenario, and where do they verbalize the dual meanings of things.. I heard one verse posted to demonstrate a future coming of Christ, by taking it out of the first century, However does it? 1 Thessalonians 5:3 While people are saying, "Peace and safety," destruction will come on them suddenly, as labor pains on a pregnant woman, and they will not escape. The question could be asked who are these people that are saying "Peace and Security" in Paul's letter? A commentator Adam Clarke's explains it this way. [For when they shall say, Peace and safety] This points out, very particularly, the state of the Jewish people when the Romans came against them: and so fully persuaded were they that God would not deliver the city and temple to their enemies, that they refused every overture that was made to them. [Sudden destruction] In the storming of their city and the burning of their temple, and the massacre of several hundreds of thousands of themselves; the rest being sold for slaves, and the whole of them dispersed over the face of the earth. Does this make sense. I want to thank you for making this interchange interesting by giving me the opportunity to provide another view. By the way the preterist view is not without its problems in their theology. And I am kind of surprise those things have not been posted as of yet. I am studying into them lately. And perhaps in future will be posting the results

Good to hear from you, I would choose the first century coming on clouds glory that was witnessed in the first century. obviously not the distant future. Unless these people were resurrected in our future prior to the event. Matthew 26:64 "Yes, it is as you say," Jesus replied. "But I say to all of you: In the future you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven." The is the same way in the OT God would come, whether symbolically of literally in some sort of way in like manner in judgment upon a nation. I.e. in this case the first century Israel. Isaiah 19:1 An oracle concerning Egypt: See, the LORD rides on a swift cloud and is coming to Egypt. The idols of Egypt tremble before him, and the hearts of the Egyptians melt within them. "everything to do with Israel was prophetic for the church" If you have not already done so add 1 Cor.10:1-6 and you will see I was paying attention to your posting on this principle of subject matter. Perhaps you can add these verses in to prove your point. As for the last days idiom, they began and ended ,as Jesus said it would, in the first century. Matthew 24:1-3 Since I believe it was referring to the end of the OC dispensation that was realized by the destruction of the temple in AD 70. Meantime you may want to read some more of them, here are 13 out of 101 of those idioms. Keeping in mind If God wanted to say something was imminent how else would He say it. As for the parables you mentioned, look at the 11th in the list. 1. "The Kingdom of Heaven is at hand." (Matt. 3:2) 2. "Who warned you to flee from the wrath about to come?" (Matt. 3:7) 3. "The axe is already laid at the root of the trees." (Matt. 3:10) 4. "His winnowing fork is in His hand." (Matt. 3:12) 5. "The kingdom of heaven is at hand." (Matt. 4:17) 6. "The kingdom of heaven is at hand." (Matt. 10:7) 7. "You shall not finish going through the cities of Israel, until the Son of Man comes." (Matt. 10:23) 8. "....the age about to come." (Matt. 12:32) 9. "The Son of Man is about to come in the glory of His Father with His angels; and will then recompense every man according to his deeds." (Matt. 16:27) 10. "There are some of those who are standing here who shall not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom." (Matt. 16:28; cf. Mk. 9:1; Lk. 9:27) 11. "'When the owner of the vineyard comes, what will he do to those vine-growers?' '....He will bring those wretches to a wretched end, and will rent out the vineyard to other vine-growers, who will pay him the proceeds at the proper seasons.' '....Therefore I say to you, the kingdom of God will be taken away from you, and be given to a nation producing the fruit of it.' ....When the chief priests and the Pharisees heard His parables, they understood that He was speaking about them." (Matt. 21:40-41,43,45) 12. "This generation will not pass away until all these things take place." (Matt. 24:34)

THE ANGEL OF THE COVENANT It's interesting people can read the same bible, and come up with diverse interpretation on the second coming, and the binding of Satan. How can men who love God come up with different views on eschatology. Eschatology regarding the "time of the end" i.e. preterist, or the "end of time. "i.e. futurist. And only a paradigm shift can change ones viewpoints. Which really happens. In my case it has. Each of us manufactures our theological paradigms stemming from the Middle Ages. Causing an unbreakable religion among Christians while living in a comfort zone in things concerning God. Christian and atheist alike are challenging Christian dogma worldwide on the internet which in my estimation is a good thing. If anyone thinks they got it made with a handle on the truth, they don't. That surely has caused some 33 thousand denominations. Fulfilling the words of Christ, Matthew 10:34 "Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword." splitting families, separating denominations. Now there is a new one developing where all come under one roof as I believe Joe brought out which I wasn't aware of. Whatever I post is without doubt not the last word, as if it could, or think it can be concerning the areas under discussion. The Angel of the Covenant. Thanks or reading,

I agree He went up in a cloud in like manner returned in a cloud in judgment on an apostate Nation. Just as God did in the OT on Egypt. As one commentator said "He was not riding of a cloud to Disney Land." Isaiah 19:1 An oracle concerning Egypt: See, the LORD rides on a swift cloud and is coming to Egypt. The idols of Egypt tremble before him, and the hearts of the Egyptians melt within them. I to don't like labels, but that seems to be the way it comes out when posting. It's a short cut like Trinitarian, to cover ground that's all. I see George with a good sense of humor and in like manner I post. No harm was intended. I would appreciate being called a bible student myself with not all the answers. Just like yourself. Tell George I apologize even though I don't think he took it the wrong way.

The only peace that counts, is peace with God right now, that is your kingdom of Peace. Romans 5::1 Therefore, since we have been justified through faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, The next is the only verse in the bible that tells us what the kingdom of God is. Romans 14:17 For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking, but of righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit, As for our roaring Lion Romans 16:20 The God of peace will soon crush Satan under your feet. The grace of our Lord Jesus be with you.