The Light

How do you possibly conclude this? Making this kind of statement is simply your attempt not to address the facts that I have presented in scripture. The Jews are the Chosen people of God. Those that bless the Jewish people will be blessed and those that curse the Jewish people will be cursed. Not even the slightest of chances that I would exalt a group over Israel. I just understand that God says there are two folds, and the Gentiles will be the first fold.

No. That is your misconception that you are portraying as my belief. Are Gentiles that believe that Jesus is the Messiah and follow Him all white, western, dispensationalists? You are attempting to put words in my mouth saying that I have elevated the grafted Gentiles above Israel. Far from it. Israel is the Chosen Bride. God will keep his promise to His Chosen people.

A Gentile that joins the Catholic church and practices the things of Catholicism is a Catholic. A Gentile that joins the Baptist church and practices the teachings of the Baptist is a Baptist. However, a Gentile that attends a synagogue and practices Judaism is NOT a Jew.

You miss the part where the Jews are still blind. Their blindness will not be removed UNTIL the fullness of the Gentiles comes in. The Word is clear the Jews are currently blind to the fact that Jesus is the Messiah.

If I have missed your response on this----------5 times, I apologize. Please point out one of the responses by providing a post #.

You claim one and only coming but your claim is left wanting. Jesus comes for the 144,000 which are redeemed from the earth. That's at least two comings.

LOL. Yeah, I thru that in about the pretrib rapture so you could Darby up. So when are you going to answer the question about Jesus coming for the 144,000 first fruits. It proves that Jesus comes more than once.

I don't get. You said Christ will not kill every tenth man. Why did you say this?

You claim that I claimed that you didn't respond to my claim is FALSE. Here is what I said you didn't respond to" And you never were to respond to this coming. Revelation 14 1 And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads. 2 And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps: 3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth. 4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb. You are never able to address any scripture. I ask you again.....what about the coming of Jesus in Revelation 14. Do you pretend that doesn't happen? Once again you have missed that Jesus comes for the 144,000 firstfruits which we can clearly see in the Word of God. Additionally He comes at the 6th seal which your lack of deductive reasoning keeps you from seeing. Also, you miss the pretribulation rapture of the Church, but I don't expect you see that.

Why are you changing the subject? You said,"In christ there is no decimation ..." Are you saying that God is not going to kill every tenth man? Who said God was going to kill every tenth man so that you would find the need to claim there is no decimation?

So are you saying Christ won't kill every tenth man?????????

Well, you have multiple problems with that statement. But there's no time to list them all. A few would be..........The second coming occurs at the 6th seal when all eyes see the coming of the Lord. And you never were to respond to this coming. Revelation 14 1 And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads. 2 And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps: 3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth. 4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb. You are never able to address any scripture. I ask you again.....what about the coming of Jesus in Revelation 14. Do you pretend that doesn't happen? The first harvest is the grain harvest. The second harvest is the fruit harvest. Does that help?

LOL. Thats an awesome strawman. I missed the part where I suggested that scripture contradicts itself. The elect Jew are those Jews that believed Jesus was the Messiah. The rest were blinded just as the Word of God says. And just as the Word says part of Israel will have its blindness removed when the fullness of the Gentiles comes in. You should be familiar with the 144,000 first fruits. Acceptable first fruits mean a harvest will follow.

Are you telling you don't know what determines a Jew or a Gentile?

Right the election obtained it and the rest were blinded. But don't be ignorant of this. Romans 11 25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

Offhand, I would suspect 50 days or so. These events will occur on feast days. Yeah. But that does NOT play into the rapture of the Church. No. The dead in Christ go to heaven. Then the Lord will bring them with Him when He returns for the alive that remained. If that's what you prefer to believe, that's fine. I prefer to understand what those verses are about. The Lord comes and says arise my love and come away. That might not mean anything more than a symbolic love story between a man and a woman to you, but it is much, much more than that. I guess you could be right if we left out the verses about the Lord saying arise my love and standing behind the wall looking through the lattice of the windows. Might be a peeping Tom story. The dead in Christ go to heaven. No. Most don't see a time delay. And yet in Song of Solomon 2 we see the Lord comes for His love and says arise in the spring. Then we see the same arise message occurs at the end of summer. And of course this lines up perfectly with the grain harvest feasts. I suspect 50 days or so.

Can't happen as the seventy seal is not open which contains the seven trumpets and seven vials. It's that simple. Humm...here is Jesus coming for the 144,000 first fruits which are redeemed from the earth. Do you pretend this doesn't happen also? Is this the one and only coming or are there at least two? Revelation 14 1 And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads. 2 And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps: 3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth. 4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.

I used to think the same thing long ago. I believe that the dead in Christ rise first. The alive remain. When Jesus returns for the alive that remain, He will bring the dead in Christ with Him and the alive will meet the dead in Christ in the air. 1 Thes 4 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. 15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. 16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Here is the rapture of the Church in the Old Testament. In blue is the dead in Christ rising first and we see Jesus is behind our wall shewing Himself thru the lattice of the windows.......secret rapture. The timeframe is spring as the winter is past and it is the time of the singing birds. Song of Solomon 2 8 The voice of my beloved! behold, he cometh leaping upon the mountains, skipping upon the hills. 9 My beloved is like a roe or a young hart: behold, he standeth behind our wall, he looketh forth at the windows, shewing himself through the lattice. 10 My beloved spake, and said unto me, Rise up, my love, my fair one, and come away. 11 For, lo, the winter is past, the rain is over and gone; 12 The flowers appear on the earth; the time of the singing of birds is come, and the voice of the turtle is heard in our land; This is Jesus returning for the alive that remain. The fig tree is putting forth green figs and the tender grapes give a good smell. This is the time of the summer harvest. Again, secret rapture........clefts of the rock, in the secret places of the stairs. 13 The fig tree putteth forth her green figs, and the vines with the tender grape give a good smell. Arise, my love, my fair one, and come away. 14 O my dove, that art in the clefts of the rock, in the secret places of the stairs, let me see thy countenance, let me hear thy voice; for sweet is thy voice, and thy countenance is comely. The dead in Christ are rapture first in the spring and the alive that remained will be raptured at the end of summer. Good point. Revelation 19 And after these things I heard a great voice of much people in heaven, saying, Alleluia; Salvation, and glory, and honour, and power, unto the Lord our God: 2 For true and righteous are his judgments: for he hath judged the great whore, which did corrupt the earth with her fornication, and hath avenged the blood of his servants at her hand. 3 And again they said, Alleluia And her smoke rose up for ever and ever. 4 And the four and twenty elders and the four beasts fell down and worshipped God that sat on the throne, saying, Amen; Alleluia. 5 And a voice came out of the throne, saying, Praise our God, all ye his servants, and ye that fear him, both small and great. 6 And I heard as it were the voice of a great multitude, and as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of mighty thunderings, saying, Alleluia: for the Lord God omnipotent reigneth. 7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready. 8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints. 9 And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God. I don't think this is the marriage supper of the Lamb. The marriage supper of the lamb takes place during the one-year wrath of God. However, I do find this interesting. It needs more study from me. The marriage supper of the lamb does not take place when the Church is raptured prior to the great tribulation. The marriage supper does not take place until after the 6th seal when both brides are in heaven. Jacob had two brides. There are two raptures. The fig tree has two harvests. Two folds into one fold.....the great multitude. The wrath of God is one year before Armageddon can occur. Christ will spend that year with His bride. The marriage supper does not occur until after the 6th seal when the great multitude is in heaven. According to scripture the end times is way, way different timewise than is commonly perceived. I believe the Church will be in heaven before the Great Tribulation that kicks off in the middle of the week. Then the seed of the woman, Israel, the twelve tribes across the earth will be in heaven at the 6th seal, before the 7th seal is opened which is the wrath of God. The nation of Israel itself will remain on earth in a place of protection. God's people are not appointed to wrath.

The first fold is known by the Lord and we know Him. There are other sheep not of this fold. They will be a second fold. Both folds become one fold at the gathering from heaven and earth which occurs at the 6th seal. Actually, the verses are saying that when the fullness of the Gentiles comes in, part of Israel will have its blindness removed. That is the seed of the woman, the 12 tribes across the earth. When Jesus comes for the harvest at the 6th seal, those of the 12 tribes across the earth, that believe will be raptured. National Israel will remain on the earth during the wrath of God in a place of protection. They will not yet believe. If they believed at the 6th seal they would be raptured at that time. They will believe when the deliverer comes out of Sion as God will keep His covenant with Israel. Romans 11 25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. 26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: 27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

That doesn't change the provable facts of scripture.

Disagree all you want. That will not change the FACT that Jesus returns at the 6th seal based on scripture. The fact that you are unable or unwilling to perform simple deductive reasoning does not change the provable facts. Matthew 24 29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. Revelation 6 12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood; 13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

I was hoping your math skills were better than your reasoning skills. He does return at the 7th trumpet 7th vial. But He also returns at the 6th seal as proven by scripture. And that doesn't even count His return for the Church before the great tribulation.

Please clarify. If you are saying that the 7th vial and 7 trumpet occur in the same timeframe, that is correct. But that does not change the fact that Jesus returns at the 6th seal immediately after the great tribulation. And then returns again at the end of the wrath of God which is the 7th seal.

Ok. I can support what I'm saying with scripture. You cannot. One of us is right. You do the math.

Impossible. Jesus comes at the 6th seal immediately after the tribulation as proven by scripture. Then the 7th seal containing the 7 trumpets and 7 vials is opened. Jesus returns at the end of the one-year wrath of God for Armageddon.