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Keras

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About Keras

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  • Birthday 08/07/1941

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    Bible study, writing, reading , fishing, hiking, woodwork, gardening......

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  1. People who believe that most, if not all, the prophesies of the Old Testament have been fulfilled in the past or just ignore them, are those who prefer to not face the reality of a forthcoming, worldwide devastation by the Lord. The prophesies of this judgement/punishment onto the enemies of God, are very well described throughout the O.T. and are confirmed by the New Testament. In over 100 scripture passages, this terrifying event is vividly described as a devastating fire sent by God from the sun, that will literally fulfil all that is predicted about it. Some of the prophesies speak in an allegorical way about this event, Joel 2:1-11 is an example. But most say what will happen, in an unambiguous way, for example: Ezekiel 7:17… people will wet their pants in fright as they see what is coming. Isaiah 24:1 Be warned, the Lord is about to strip the earth and scatter its inhabitants. Zephaniah 3:8 On the Day I accuse the whole earth, it will be enveloped by My burning anger. I will pour out My wrath upon the nations. 2 Peter 3:7 …the present heavens and earth are reserved for fire, for the Day of Judgement and the destruction of the ungodly. Psalm 50:3 Our God is coming, with His consuming fire and raging storm… Nothing like that has happened to the world as yet, but what is so clearly described could and will happen; if we are to believe the Bible. Secular scientists are aware of this possibility of a massive explosion of the suns surface, a Coronal mass Ejection, in fact: they say there is a high probability of such an event and it could occur at any time. It is a mistake to think these prophesies and all the others that tell of this event, are past history, or abrogated by Jesus. Remember He is prophesied to come: ‘like a lightning flash, seen from East to West… Mathew 24:27-28 and ‘with His winnowing fork in His hand …to burn the chaff on a fire….Matthew 3:12 Then: where the vultures gather, there will be the carcasses. Vultures: the attackers of Israel. Carcasses: Those killed on that Day. Ezekiel 30:1-5, Psalms 97:3-5, Jeramiah 9:22, Isaiah 6:11-13, + This dramatic event is the yet to happen, Sixth Seal worldwide disaster. Not the Return of Jesus in glory for His Millennium reign, that will be about 20 years later.
  2. Diaste, Revelation 21:1-7 is clear; the new Jerusalem comes down to earth after the Millennium. Note in verse 7 that it is the heritage of the Victorious peoples. That is; of every faithful believer, all who stood strong in their faith during all the trials and tribulations. Please do not think that ethnicity has any significance then. Or now!
  3. You make these two prophesies the one event. Why? They are described differently and are way apart in Revelation. But yes; Jerusalem will be flattened by the terrible Day of the Lord's wrath, the Sixth Seal. Jeremiah 9:11, Isaiah 10:23, Jeremiah 22:6-7, Micah 5:11, + For now, we Christians are the Spiritual Temple, but it is plainly prophesied that there will be a physical Temple built before Jesus Returns. The devil will pollute it, just as Antiochus did to the 2nd Temple in 167 BC. After he was defeated, Maccabeus re-dedicated it and the Jews still celebrate that by the feast of Hanukkah. This history will repeat itself. Actually it seems that the ungodly may still be around in Eternity. Revelation 22:15 Something that we do not need to concern ourselves about.
  4. I have been to the Dome of the Rock. There is no throne in it, only the Rock that Abraham went to sacrifice Isaac on. On the Day of the Lord's wrath, all Islamic shrines will be destroyed. Jeremiah 22:6-7, Jeremiah 4:26-28, Isaiah 24:10 & 13, Isaiah 10:23
  5. So what is it that the Anti-Christ will declare himself to be god in? 2 Thessalonians 2:4 Your quote from Revelation 21, is after the Millennium. There will be a Temple built before the Mill, as we see above and in Revelation 11:1. Jesus will reign from it during the Mill. Rev 20:6
  6. Pre-Tribulation Proofs

    They are the vast multitude, as mentioned in Revelation 9:7, of every faithful Christian person, gathered into all of the holy Land soon after the just previous Sixth Seal devastation has cleared all that area. Do not think they are in heaven, as that chapter describes an earthly scene. God's Throne can be seen from the earth if He wills it. Ezekiel 1:1
  7. Pre-Tribulation Proofs

    The 1 Thess:4:15-17 prophecy is for the Return of Jesus, where He sends His angels to gather those Christians who remain to Him, inin the clouds, then in Jerusalem. Matthew 24:31 The 1 Corinthians 15:50-56 is all about the Judgement at the Great White Throne, that happens after the Millennium. Only then is the Book of Life opened and immortality conferred to those whose names are in it. Proved by verse 55, where Death is no more. Revelation 21:1-7 There will be death during the Millennium. Isaiah 65:20 There is no rapture removal to heaven of anyone other than the 2 Witnesses and they are killed first. We must face trials; 1 Peter 3:12
  8. Millennial Day Theory

    The next prophesied event is not the Return of Jesus, or the Great tribulation, but the great and terrible Day of the Lord's vengeance and wrath against the nations. Proved by Isaiah 61:2b and the sequence of the Seals, Trumpets and Bowls in Revelation. We have now the first five Seals, so the Sixth Seal; the Day of the Lord's wrath is next. Wait for the Day; all the earth will be affected, Isaiah 24, and then all the prophesies for the 'about 20 year time gap'- Rev 8:1, will take place, then Jesus will Return for His Millennium reign.
  9. Pre-Tribulation Proofs

    Back to the OP: To clarify the difference between how those who remain when Jesus Returns are gathered to Him, as 1 Thessalonians 4:15-7 says, and the 2 Witnesses, who are taken to heaven, we need to realize that the gathering, as Matthew 24:31 describes, is not to heaven but to Jerusalem, where Jesus will reign from. It is just a transportation to meet Him and then be with Him forever, the same as what happened to Philip. Acts 8:39 Immortality, as described in 1 Corinthians 15:50-56, is not conferred until after the Millennium. Only after the Book of life is opened. Revelation 20:11-15 Rapture believers say: There might be some dispute about the timing, but the concept is very clear in scripture. Quote The concept of a rapture to heaven of the Church is NOT 'very clear' at all. There is no verse that states God intends to take the Christian Church to heaven. But there are several that say such a thing is impossible. John 3:13, John 7:34, John 8:21-23, John 17:15, Revelation 5:10 And as for the 'dispute about the timing', this ongoing argument should ring bells of concern for all who wish to believe in the rapture theory. For 100+ years this issue has been argued and fought over by Christians, without any resolution. Pre, Mid, Post and now Pre-wrath, all have their exponents and all are wrong because the Bible simply does not prophesy a rapture to heaven at any time. What we see with the rapture issue, is assumptions, inferences and plain guesswork, resulting in lies and confusion. Promoted, of course, by the Author of lies and confusion. We are told that people will be susceptible to false teachings, 1 Timothy 4:3-4, and Jesus warned us to not be deceived. I guess He knew that many would be deceived! What the Prophetic Word does tell us God will do for His people, those who stand firm in their faith; is protection through al that must happen. Dozens of verses state how the Lord will protect His own through fire, Isaiah 43:2 and the 3 men in the furnace, Daniel 3:19-27, are examples. We are told to Call upon the Name of the Lord and we will be saved. Joel 2:32, Acts 2:21.
  10. Pre-Tribulation Proofs

    The prevalent error is in thinking that the Israel visible today is still the chosen of God. Wrong; they un-chose themselves, Matthew 27:25 and now it is every born again Christian, who belongs to the new nation of God's people. Matthew 21:43 With the rapture cult, the initial error is that of separating Israel and the Church, so they could still look for salvation to come to ethnic Israel, as a major tenet of their doctrine: Israel on earth, the Church in heaven. The pre-Trib rapture teaches removal to ensure survival from tribulation, but salvation has always been stated to redeem us from our fallen sinful state, in our earthly situation. Acts 20:21 I know that when I am gone, savage wolves will come in among you and will not spare the flock. 2 Peter 2:1-3, 2 Timothy 4:3-4 The rapture idea is that God will “save us” from that which must occur – thus equating this supposed removal with salvation. After so many Christians saw the inadequacy and misappropriation of the verses used to promote Pre-Trib, the Post-Trib alternative was then built around surviving the tribulation – thus sustaining the illusion that survival is somehow related to salvation. A strong delusion is mentioned in the New Testament: 2 Thessalonians 2:11 And for this reason God shall send them a strong delusion, that they should believe a lie. This delusion has people looking forward to the 2nd Coming (in the so called rapture to heaven, Pre, Mid, or Post) believing in a rapture removal from the earth. The reality is, we experience His glorious salvation when we enter in to the blessed assurance that Christ’s Death means the penalty for our sin has been paid because of His sacrifice on the Cross. Ever since then, believers must trust in Jesus for their salvation and for their protection during the testing times to come. Isaiah 43:2, Psalms 31:23-24 And if the Lord does not save them, just as has happened to the millions of martyrs in the last 2 centuries, then we must die trusting in His promise of resurrection. Revelation 12:11, Revelation 13:10 Our souls will be kept under the heavenly Altar, Revelation 6:9-11, and Jesus will bring them with Him at His Return, then bring us to life again, to reign with Him for 1000 years. Revelation 20:4 Jesus said: take care that you be not deceived..... Seems that many have been rather careless!
  11. Pre-Tribulation Proofs

    Some of us will see.... that seems to mean; will experience a pre trib rapture, as you believe. others won't ..... those who don't see it in the Bible, because it isn't there. But not based on eschatology..... The end times are not Biblical? but their relationship with the Lord..... There are faithful Christians and all the rest of the world. That's how I read it, Old Coot. More scripture and less opinion, please.
  12. Pre-Tribulation Proofs

    Thanks for your good reply, Old Coot! Firstly, I want you to know that I am an 'old Coot', too. Been around for 76 years and got into intensive Bible study 7 years ago. Secondly, I [we who oppose the rapture theory] never say that by believing ideas and theories about the end times events that may be wrong, has any effect on a Christians salvation. Although it seems that some may renounce God when what they expected doesn't happen. Re; what I believe from the Prophetic Word, will happen, I have posted in many threads here and elsewhere. Plus all available free at logostelos.info Your attitude in the post above, is one of a sadly wronged person. But we post scriptures that prove there is no rapture removal to heaven of anyone except the 2 Witnesses, in the end times. The 'harparzo' of 1 Thess 4:17, is merely a transportation to meet Jesus and then to be with Him in Jerusalem. There is no other scripture that even hints at a rapture to heaven. There is plenty that say how the Lord will protect His own during His wrath. You say: You or anyone else will never be able to show where I used the same demeaning tactics on anyone. Quote Old Coot. You did just that! Its the old pre-trib threat: If you don't believe it the Lord won't take you! BAD fruit!
  13. Pre-Tribulation Proofs

    This is the common reaction of a pre-tribber to having their beliefs challenged. We who post proofs against that teaching are called 'militant and chastiser's'. It is because the 'rapture to heaven' believers have no scriptural support and are forced to make personal accusations against us. I have received much abuse and even actual threats of personal harm from rapture believers. This attitude is not Christian and can only come from Satan, who is the Deceiver and the originator of the lies and fables preached today. As for the 'Blessed hope', that is our Salvation thru Jesus and His promise of Eternal life. John 3:16 NOT goin to live in heaven, as Jesus plainly said that was impossible. What we are told, is the Lord will protect His own during His wrath. Isaiah 43:2, and how we must call upon His Name... Joel 2:32, Acts 2:21
  14. Israel and Judah: When Will They Be Reunited?

    What I ascertain from the Prophetic Word, is that the world will be a very different place after the soon to happen, Sixth Seal worldwide disaster. I guess you are thinking that the Catholic Church will be the OWG. I do not see that and Revelation 17:1-18 tell of the demise of the Pope and his empire.
  15. Israel and Judah: When Will They Be Reunited?

    As the questions and the speculations here are irrelevant to what is about to happen; I decline to become involved in issues like - who is Abaddon, etc. All those things will be revealed in due course. Our concern and study right now, should be about the Lord's day of wrath, the forthcoming worldwide disaster that will commence all the things prophesied for the time leading up to the glorious Return of Jesus.
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