Exegesis
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Posts posted by Exegesis
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16 hours ago, vic66 said:
if you break of the sin of remarriage while you first covenanted marriage spouse is still alive there is forgiveness.
but if you remarried in second marriage while first married spouse is alive then your sin remains (no forgiveness)
Basic English does not seem to be your long suite. Your sentences above make no sense in their present form.
The guilty party is the one who instigates the divorce, in your flawed scenario. That is biblical fact. It is also biblical fact that according to the OT law, divorce had no terms for fault. So you are also saying Jesus changed the law, which we know He did not. You also evidently don't know that the New Testament was not originally written in English. It was written in Greek. In Matthew 1:19-21, Matthew 5:31-32, Mathew 19:7-9, Mark 10:11-12, and Luke 16:16-18 most of the words translated in later translations as "divorce" are not the Greek word for divorce. They are the Greek word for "putting away" which means a man getting rid of his wife without giving her a certificate of divorce. That is what Jesus was condemning and calling adultery, not divorce itself. A person marrying an un-divorced woman was committing adultery. Pretty simple concept.
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1 hour ago, Who me said:
Go to prophercy and second coming pages and start reading.
I certainly do not need a prophecy page from this board when I have the Bible. I've been studying prophecy for 50 years. Seems you have a problem answering simple questions. And spell check is your friend.
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4 minutes ago, Justin Adams said:
Not true. I have not said they have to do anything.
"why we should ignore it."
Your words. If you know you are doing this, keeping this commandment, why is it so difficult for you to explain how you are keeping it? Surely it should be the easiest thing for you to explain, and since you think everyone else should be doing it, you would be anxious to explain it to anyone who asked. Right?
You can avoid the question by saying you've never told anyone else they need to keep the Sabbath, but your posts say something else. Like this earlier one:
QuoteWords, words and more words. It ALWAYS boils down to a Sabbath 'thing'. And reams of 'reasons' why we should ignore it.
Now I wonder why that is..? (disingenuous tongue-in-cheek-smirk)
Come on. Take a chance. Tell everyone here on this board how you keep the Sabbath. It can't be that hard.
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40 minutes ago, Justin Adams said:
Words, words and more words. It ALWAYS boils down to a Sabbath 'thing'. And reams of 'reasons' why we should ignore it.
Now I wonder why that is..? (disingenuous tongue-in-cheek-smirk)
Words, words, and more words. It ALWAYS boils down to those who say we must keep the Sabbath, but can never explain how we are supposed to keep it.
Go out on a limb. Be the first, on this board or any other Christian forum out there, and actually tell people exactly how you keep the Sabbath. Without doing so, your constant assertions that you do keep it are nothing but empty words. You are a self-proclaimed Sabbath-keeper. Let's match your explanation of how you keep the Sabbath with what the Bible says are requirements to keep it and see if they match up.
Is that too difficult?
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1 hour ago, Justin Adams said:
I think 'protagonist' would be your attitude. I observe the Sabbath (ignoring RCC edicts) in honor of our Great High God.
The Sabbath celebrates Creation and it is Yahweh that likes us to observe it, and Commands us to do so.
Exactly how, or my method(s), is not yours to know or find out either. I just suggest that others might count the times The Lord has mentioned it in the Tanakh, and bemused I am at the hoops folk jump thru to dis that Sabbath.
The RCC crows about the 'protestants' keeping the RCC 'SUN-day' in honor of the Pope's edicts about their Sabbath change to SUN-day.
In other words, you cannot explain to anyone how you keep the Sabbath, even though you have been one of those on this board who continually tells others they have to keep it. But you won't explain to them how to do so.
I find nowhere in this thread where I have "dissed" the Sabbath. Perhaps you could point me to a specific post where I have done so. I am openly questioning a flawed rational that people such as you use in regards to this commandment. Telling people they must do something, but, at the same time, steadfastly refusing to tell them exactly how they should do it. In regards to spiritual matters, when you take it upon yourself to tell someone they have to do something you claim God commands them to do, at the same time, you have to be able to explain to them how they must keep that command, in any detail they ask you to explain. You cannot just divorce yourself from your responsibility to explain something to people after you have told them they have to do something.
Why is this question so difficult for you to answer? If you are so confident that you are keeping this commandment, then it should be patently easy for you to explain to other people exactly how you keep it. Why the constant avoidance of an actual explanation?
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7 hours ago, Jedi4Yahweh said:
And you give the same old excuse for not obeying God's word, which was instituted by God from the beginning of Creation on the 7th Day he rested from his work. The Levitical Priesthood and the Sacrificial System has been replaced by Yahshua our high priest who is also the sacrificial offering read Hebrews or do I need to explain that to you as well? And you dont need a Earthly Temple to keep the Sabbath where do you get that? There is a heavenly temple where Yahshua serves as high priest...do you need that explained as well?
In the past I was living in sin just like everyone else, then I repented in learned God's way, and now keep the Sabbath just as Jesus, Paul and all the other Apostles did.
When you place your salvation on a work, i.e. the Sabbath, you cannot claim Christ's sacrifice on the cross. Using a rather unique spelling of Jesus' name gets you no points either.
If Jesus' sacrifice on the cross delivered us from our sins completely, why would we need to observe a certain day of the old covenant when you are telling me all of that covenant is done with, except for a day?
I will ask again, because you still have not answered the question:
How are you keeping the Sabbath? Explain it to me. In terms an unbelieving secularist could understand, as if I just walked up to you off the street with no spiritual or biblical knowledge at all . . . In the post above you plainly say you are keeping the Sabbath, so explain to all of us here exactly how you are doing that, in 2020. Surely, since you are telling all of us that we need to do it, you can explain to us, in great detail, exactly how you, yourself, are keeping the Sabbath.
I will also add that you have absolutely no idea of my position on the Sabbath yet, but you call me disobedient, because I question you on your methodology. You have made a clear claim. I am waiting for you to explain to us exactly how you keep that claim, biblically. So far, you have not answered the question.
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1 minute ago, Jedi4Yahweh said:
Brother read Lev 23:3 its spelled out for you. No work, Holy Assembly, Day of Rest on the 7th Day.
Not a satisfactory answer. I asked you a specific question, and you gave me the same tired reply every so-called Sabbath keeper gives me. I ask again:
How are you keeping the Sabbath? Because unless you are offering a sacrifice at the Temple every Sabbath as well as all the other daily and Festival Sabbaths, you are not keeping the Sabbath.
Explain to me how you are keeping the Sabbath without a Temple, the Levitcal Priesthood and the daily sacrifices.
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12 hours ago, Justin Adams said:
Few seem to understand the Levitical law. It was so people did not profane sacred space. There is NO sacrifice for most moral turpitude in the Law. Mostly you were cut off or killed for those transgressions.
That is why the Blood of the Lamb allows us to pass thru the veil into the Most Holy Place and live. We can now come boldly right to the throne of Yahweh.
Have you not, in the past, been a protagonist of "keeping" the Sabbath?
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On 7/13/2020 at 9:47 AM, Jedi4Yahweh said:
Cease from work and honor God by assembling with other believers to worship God on his appointed day of worship (Sabbath).
That is not a satisfactory reply. The Old Testament has very specific mandates as to how the Sabbath is to be kept. Which of those are you keeping? Such as, perhaps, the ritual Sabbath sacrifices at the Temple?
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On 7/13/2020 at 4:27 AM, Betha said:
simple ! we do the good works of God and have fellowship with the Father and His Son Jesus Christ.
That is not keeping the Sabbath. If someone claims to be keeping the Sabbath there are very specific mandates that have to be kept, well-stated in the Old Testament. Since you are so familiar with them, perhaps you could tell us what those rules are?
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On 7/13/2020 at 10:11 AM, Who me said:
Because that is what all those who go round the many forums crying 'woe, woe, woe!' are doing.
Contrast Paul when talking to Christians already experiencing perscution. He talking about there light and momentary trouble and went on to talk about the hope that they had.
Yes perscution is already happening in the west. Christians need to be built up, strengthened, taught the strong meat of the Bible so they know what they believe, why they believe and amid real problems are confident in the faith they have.
Point those people out. Name names. It is easy to toss a supposition out there. It is a great deal more difficult to prove it.
Try again.
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On 7/13/2020 at 2:18 PM, vic66 said:
GENESIS 2:21-24
21 And Yahweh God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh in its place:
22 And the rib, which Yahweh God had taken from man, he made a woman, and brought her to the man.
23 And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of man.
24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall cling to his wife: and they shall be one flesh.MATTHEW 19:3-9
3 The Pharisees also came to him, tempting him, and saying to him, Is it lawful for a man to put away his wife for every cause?
4 And he answered and said to them, Have you not read, that he who made them at the beginning made them male and female,
5 And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cling to his wife: and they two shall be one flesh?
6 Therefore they are no more two, but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, do not let man separate1.
7 They say to him, Why did Moses then command to give a writing of divorcement?
8 He says unto them, Moses because of the hardness of your hearts suffered you to put away your wives: but from the beginning it was not so.
9 And I say to you, Whoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, commits adultery: and whoever marries her who is put away commits adultery.Mark 10 King James Version (KJV)
10 And he arose from thence, and cometh into the coasts of Judaea by the farther side of Jordan: and the people resort unto him again; and, as he was wont, he taught them again.
2 And the Pharisees came to him, and asked him, Is it lawful for a man to put away his wife? tempting him.
3 And he answered and said unto them, What did Moses command you?
4 And they said, Moses suffered to write a bill of divorcement, and to put her away.
5 And Jesus answered and said unto them, For the hardness of your heart he wrote you this precept.
6 But from the beginning of the creation God made them male and female.
7 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and cleave to his wife;
8 And they twain shall be one flesh: so then they are no more twain, but one flesh.
9 What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.
10 And in the house his disciples asked him again of the same matter.
11 And he saith unto them, Whosoever shall put away his wife, and marry another, committeth adultery against her.
12 And if a woman shall put away her husband, and be married to another, she committeth adultery.
Luke 16:18
“Whoever divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery; and whoever marries her who is divorced from her husband commits adultery."1 Corinthians 7:39 kjv
The wife is bound by the law as long as her husband liveth; but if her husband be dead, she is at liberty to be married to whom she will; only in the Lord.Roman 7
2 For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband.
3 So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.
Mal
That was a fail.
I asked for textual proof that what you are trying to sell passes biblical scrutiny. Your response failed.
Show me biblical proof that divorce and re-marriage is an unforgivable sin.
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On 6/28/2020 at 9:47 AM, R. Hartono said:
College was built to make money.
No, right now, in this country, most colleges and universities are intent on indoctrinating students in the Liberal way of thought and activism. Plain and simple.
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3 hours ago, Jedi4Yahweh said:
Correct which means if your keeping these Two commandments means you are keeping the Ten Commandments...because as you quoted "All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.” (Matthew 22:36-40)
If you are claiming to keep the Sabbath, can you please explain to us exactly how you are keeping it? Thank you.
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58 minutes ago, Who me said:
A simple question for you.
What ever happens in your country or in the world, how will that affect your Christian life style?
If the antichrist appears will you stop being Christian?
If it makes no difference to how you act, or causes you to be more obedient, why seek to frighten people?
Why would you couch it the terms of "frightening people?" The country is in grave danger, and as Christians, it is our job, every day, all day to warn others around us of danger. There is no fear to it. It isn't so much about what is happening to the country itself. The Christians in this country, collectively, are letting evil in the country go on, and grow, un-checked, and un-challenged. And they will have to answer for that, if they don't quickly change their hearts, and their behavior.
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13 hours ago, vic66 said:
To put this verse in the context of divorce, if a person does not love their husband or wife whom they have seen, how can they love God whom they have not seen?
www.biblicalresearchreports.com/divorce-and-remarriage-why-didnt-we-see-this-before/
Long-winded. Self-righteous, but it isn't what I asked for. I'll try again:
You have yet to provide evidence, textually, that says a person who remarries is in a continual state of adultery. Show biblical proof for that. Divorce is not always wrong and it is certainly not unforgivable. Neither is adultery. If I am married, and the other person divorces me, for whatever reason, I am under no obligation to remain unmarried, whether that other person lives or dies.
You are saying, without putting it into actual words, that divorce and/or marriage are unforgivable sins. And you base that on no biblical standard, because there is only one unforgivable sin in the Bible. I'm waiting for textual proof.
You are cherry-picking, and this is by no means good, or accurate exegesis. You are also clearly saying that God punishes one person for the supposed sins of another. We know that is false.
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On 7/10/2020 at 3:43 PM, vic66 said:
this thread in about divorce and remarriage and a person continuing it the state of adultery will pervent them getting to heaven
one off taxes incorrect payment can be corrected (by making restitution if possible)
continuous state of unrepentant adultery far more serious and dangerous before God.
You have yet to provide evidence, textually, that says a person who remarries is in a continual state of adultery. Show biblical proof for that. Divorce is not always wrong and it is certainly not unforgivable. Neither is adultery. If I am married, and the other person divorces me, for whatever reason, I am under no obligation to remain unmarried, whether that other person lives or dies.
You are saying, without putting it into actual words, that divorce and/or marriage are unforgivable sins. And you base that on no biblical standard, because there is only one unforgivable sin in the Bible. I'm waiting for textual proof.
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On 7/9/2020 at 4:02 PM, Gideon said:
In fairness, let me present the "other side" of the coin, lol.
Should it bother us that divorce in the church is almost exactly the same percentage as those in the world? Absolutely! Does it? Hmmmmm, I think not. We simply do not have ears to hear the answer, or, perhaps we have ears and simply don't like God's answer, so we would rather ignore it, claim grace anyway and think nothing of it.
The current state of the church, mirrored by our divorce rate, is shouting to the world that having the love of God shed abroad in our hearts by the indwelling Holy Spirit is not exactly working out as God planned it. They see us as shallow hypocrites.
How can we say we love God whom we have not seen if we cannot love our brothers whom we have seen. And should marriages between saints be the crowning glory displaying that love?
Do we love others as we love ourselves? Do we even want to? and if the answer is no, do we desire to be changed in our inner man so that God's love flows through us?
The red flags are being raised that something is wrong with our understanding of the gospel. We believe sanctification is time-related, but are we truly progressing to being changed into His image with more and more spiritual fruits abounding in our lives?
Is sin becoming more and more sinful to us? Are we overcoming it more and more? Or have we become content to simply be saved by grace but not delievered from the power of darkness by that same grace?
Are we not fulfilling the very same sin as the laodecians, content to be forgiven but totally lukewarm to seeking God's face for more of Him so that our actions, marriage included, point those in the world to Jesus? Are we not, in essence, saying that because we have grace for forgiveness, for salvation, somehow we now have need of nothing?
I pray we wake up to the lateness of the hour and the Spirit's calling us to come up higher, to hate our self life so He can finally live through us. to hate our worldliness and compromise, and to seek for a deeper indwelling of the Spirit that actually causes us to live, to act, to think differently.
blessings,
Gideon
I understand your line of reasoning, and your conclusions above, to some extent. But they are a non-sequitur for a couple of reasons. In some cases are people getting or giving the wrong gospel? Of course they are. Not everyone who labels themselves a Christian actually is one. So they will either preach a super-holiness doctrine, or a super lax doctrine which says a Christian can do basically anything they want as long as the say Jesus' name once in a while. Both doctrines are wrong.
Using the logic of "Christians shouldn't have almost the same rate of divorce as the secular world" is both skewed and unrealistic logic, and you could insert just about any sin out there in that statement, compare it to the secular world, and end up with the same result. It's a fallen world, and redeemed people are still just as fallen as the ones who aren't redeem, operationally. They just have an avenue with which they gain forgiveness after repentance. Does that mean the frequency and severity of the sins should be greatly reduced once you are saved? Absolutely. But the reality is not going to match the theoretical application because we are still fallen in spite of our relationship with Christ. 'Ole vic66 will have some problems himself which he should probably be working on instead of trying to guilt shame people who have been divorced and or re-married, but yet, here we are . . . Looking at his topics, I see no thread about abortion. I see no thread about homosexuality. I see no threads about theft, or gossiping, or slander. Just holiness stuff and divorce. That is telling. That's a clear sign of someone who is looking out, at other peoples perceived actions in regards to their relationship with Christ, and not inwards and focusing on what they themself still need to work on.
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1 hour ago, Gideon said:
You did not answer my question. If you stole from the IRS in 1986 and never made it right, are you not then still a thief? According to you, you are.
If you have noticed, he does not answer direct questions very well, if he doesn't want to answer them. That is what Beaujangles was trying to point out early. He conveniently fails to answer questions that he does not wish to deal with. And that is duplicitous behavior. A person who is confident and above-board answers all questions asked of them. There is no reason not to.
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1 hour ago, Gideon said:
The woman at the well, who had multiple previous husbands and the man she was with then was not even her husband..... remember her? Did Jesus demand she go back and undo all six marriages or did He offer her the cure for a heart that had committed those sins?
Good point, and the answer is "no." Because by His very words, Jesus legitimized all 5 of her previous marriages or He would have replied to her very differently.
John 4:16 He told her, "Go, call your husband and come back." 17 "I have no husband," she replied. Jesus said to her, "You are right when you say you have no husband. 18 The fact is, you have had five husbands, and the man you now have is not your husband. What you have just said is quite true."
Jesus did not tell the woman she had had 1 original husband and all the other ones were not her husband. If what vic66 is teaching were true, Jesus would have said something along those lines. The holiness doctrine, which is 100% false, leaves no room for compassion, and it leaves no room for mistakes. He has implied many times over in this thread that if someone divorces and remarries out side his doctrine that they are living in perpetual sin. Which is false. There is only one unforgivable sin. It is not divorce or remarriage.
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1 hour ago, Gideon said:
Ok, I agree with Beaujangles. You are deep into legalistic territory..... like Pharisee deep.
What is done is done. You cannot undo it. Do you realize how many have married a second time, had children, raised a family. And you seriously are proposing the man ot woman now leave their second mate, tear up an entire family, destroy the security of the children, and this is somehow pleasing to God? Seriously?
Yes, it is sad this has become our norm, but your answer will inflict more pain, not lessen it.
blessings,
Gids
Sadly, yes, that is what he is saying. People like him would have people stay with a person they married to no matter how bad it is. It wouldn't matter if they were being verbally, sexually, or physically abused. It wouldn't matter if they had been abandoned by the other person. They got married, it turned out to be a mistake, and now God has condemned them to live their life alone, for the rest of what is left. And what he is also teaching, even though he isn't saying it bluntly is this:
That if a person divorces, or remarries, their sin is unforgivable.
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On 9/12/2019 at 9:25 AM, johnthebaptist said:
The Lord's commandments are meant to help us find the way. Shouldn't we let people know what those commandments are, rather than keep them a secret?
Perhaps you can show me where I said we should keep these things a secret? What I am saying is many people who rail against "sin" have a pet sin they constantly whinge about, but they ignore others. Homosexuality is not the only sexual sin.
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On 9/12/2019 at 7:58 AM, BeauJangles said:
I must have missed these particular passages of scriptures. Could you post them for our benefit?
We were never requested of the Lord to carry protest signs and rail against determined women at abortion clinics. Nor are we asked to gather massively to rant at Gay Pride parades.
You must have. Try reading 1 Corinthians chapter 6.
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17 hours ago, johnthebaptist said:
Or are we missing the point? Is it about EXALTING homosexuality and EXALTING abortion on demand and EXALTING coveting your neighbor's hedge shears?
You are missing the point. Jesus plainly says that any sexual sin is worse than than stealing your neighbors hedge shears. Because you willingly involve someone else in your sin.
You can sleep with your neighbors wife. That is a much worse sin than stealing that same neighbor's hedge shears because you have defiled yourself, and your neighbor's wife through your act of using her, sexually. The theft of the hedge shears can debase no one but you.
The sins you are fixated on anger God extremely, but they are not the only ones He abhors. He also abhors sins that people repeatedly fail to speak out about beyond abortion and homosexuality.
Biden at it again.
in U.S. Politics
Posted
"Trumpian" has nothing to do with it. A person who enters the country illegally is an illegal alien. A person who enters the country legally is an immigrant. A migrant is just a person who moves around. Basic English.
Jesus also instructed Paul and Peter to give instructions to obey the law of the land. That would mean you do not enter someone else's territory illegally. It has nothing to do with loving one's neighbor. Progressives always try and hinge it on love when what people who believe in controlled borders want is for outsiders to not be able to arbitrarily break our laws and then get rewarded for it. What you support tells people to actively break the law. And if you also claim to be a Christian, then you support a political position that directly violates scripture.