mobile21

So you believe that God the Father has a physical body, like the J.W. do?????. The Church, the "ekklesia" is the assembly composed of the faithful and the hierarchy. The members of this Ekklesia can have eternal life given by God but that doesn't mean they share God's nature. That's correct. The Church was not created on the Cross. The Church was created before, when Jesus Christ founds it (Matt 16:18).

Ok ok but because you declared yourself an atheist you must have already proven God doesn't exist right????. Why don't you prove to us God doesn't exist instead of the age of the Earth????.

Exactly, we are called but not everyone answers that call to be a Priest (religious leader) or a King (political/social leader) of our respective communities. The Bible tells us: "for many be called, but few chosen." (Matt 20:16) We are all called to be perfect: "Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect" (Matt 5:48) Now, to be called to be a Priest is quite a different thing.

The OT was written in hebrew and the NT in greek. The Bible version known as the Vulgata is the latin translation of both scriptures (you don't need to be "a linguist" to understand that). Why the NIV and other versions mistranslate "globe" for "circle"??? that I don't know, probably because of the same reason they mistranslated Acts 1:15 and others, who knows, the only thing that matters is that the word "circle" is not in the original version. P.S. Like I said, there IS NO religious dogma about the Earth being flat whatsoever, never was.

Again, I don't see why we need a "second front" to this debate if all the biblical arguments are in Sandra's thread: THE PRIESTHOOD OF JESUS CHRIST

Protestant traductions because they don't need to be authorized "by no Church" and because every protestant is "his or her own infallible Pope" often take many liberties when it comes to translations. One of the most outrageous is the false traduction of Acts 1:15 when the greek word "adelphos" is translated as "disciples" instead of "brethren" just to support the false protestant (well, of some protestants anyway) assertion that the Virgin Mary had other children according to the Bible. As Yod says, his jewish old testament says sphere and so does the official latin vulgate traduction of the Church. In english, it's translated as globe (again, a "three-dimensional object", not a circle) in the version published by the English College at Douay in 1609.

Excuse me ScientificAtheist, can you tell us how this "copying and pasting" will prove God doesn't exist?. We know God can't be proved or disproved by science because science only works with measurable things and the revealed God of judaism/christianity is not measurable (the "gods" of pagan religions were measurable, for example the greek gods lived "on top of Mt. Olympus"). Unless you truly have a way to prove "through science" God doesn't exist, I don't see the point of all of this copying and pasting.

The Reason It's a fact God chose only men to be Priests but why?. I think the reason for that is simpler than most think: woman have the gift to give physical life whereas men have the gift to give spiritual life. Some may say: "why men get to do the cool part?". The answer is that for us humans, our body is as important as our spirit, we have to remember God created pure spiritual beings (the angels) and pure material creatures (animals) but we are not angels and we are not animals, we are unique inviduals created in God's image (Gen 1:26) who will live eternally with a glorified (physical) body. As you can see, the women's role is no less important than the men's and vice versa.

Men cannot dispense Grace. Grace comes from God, and no man can give out grace. I cannot believe that Jesus would exclude women from His grace, from His annointing, from serving Him. I have been praying and seeking the Lord on this matter. Something happened just the other night that made me question all of this, and I think it may have been God speaking to me in a way. I have yet to decide what it means yet. I am open to this. As I said, I am just going to serve the Lord. HE can send me to do whatever. I don't know If I'll be preaching, I've thought about it, but God will reveal it within time. In HIM, Beth I don't know what kind of revelations you have (I do believe people can have them) but here's a guideline to distinguish what comes from the Lord and what comes from the enemy: Private revelation will never go against public revelation so, if those revelations of yours are about women being Priests then they don't come from God. God in His public revelation (the Holy Scripture) taught us only men can be Priests. Mobile 21, I think the difference here in our beliefs, between the priest issue, is that I assume you are Catholic. I think that Christian beliefs and Catholics beliefs are very different. It is a whole different religion. I grew up catholic and I don't think that through the board, the sanctity of priesthood, taught in catichism, can be explained. I sure had a hard time understanding it when I was younger. I think I believed what you said, but I have since become a Christian for the last 15 years, there is just a big difference. I am sure that is a whole other thread, but I just wanted to state that we were coming from two very different views. GBU I just love these statements: "I was a catholic and now I'm a christian" Excuse me but as lovely as that sounds, it is a false statement. The correct statement is: "I was a catholic and now I'm a protestant" Both catholics and protestants are christians because both believe in Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior, or like I've always said, if you present to me a "catholic" who is not a "christian", I'll give to you the W.B.'s one billion dollar.

These so called "public revelations" that you speak of, where are the verses? I am mature enough in the Lord to know when something is from Him, and when the enemy is coming against me, and I do not care about public anything. If my revelations line up with the Word of God, then it doesn't matter what man has to say about it. 1) Public revelation is the entire Bible as approved by the infallible Council of 397. This is why it is called the Word of God. Public revelation is called public because anyone can read it and find out what God says and this is the reason why a true private revelation will never go against public revelation, because our God is fair and it would be very strange that first we have our Bible saying something and then someone claims God told him otherwise. God in private revelations will never ask someone to, for example, "found a Church" because the one and only Church was already founded by Jesus Christ as we can read in Matt 16:18 (this is how we know the "revelations" of Muhammad, "Rev." Moon, Ellen White, Joseph Smith and many others are false). 2) If you have revelations, you must not trust your own senses. The Devil is an angelic creature and as such is way more intelligent than we are. My personal advise is that you should have a counselor who is of course a versed christian so he can help you to shed some light on the (christian) consistency of the revelations. In the case of catholic Saints, this person is usually their confessor or a spiritual director.

Don't mean to try and discredit the Bible here, but... I did a computer search for "Sphere" from Genesis through Revelation. It only appears 3 times and all 3 in 2 COR 10:13,15,16 In Isaiah 40:22 the term used is Circle of the Earth. This is in the 3 translations I checked, i.e., NASB, NKJV and the original KJV. So, I would have to say our atheist friends are correct on this point, a circle is most certainly a two-dimensional object, and the word "Sphere" is not used to describe the Earth. Therefore the flat Earth concept was at least supported in the Bible. I wish I were wrong as I had always been taught the Bible supported a round earth, a sphere. Thanks to computers and various translations it is quite easy and fast to check these things. Bro John Protestant traductions take so many liberties!. The true traduction of the Bible tells us: "It is he that sitteth upon the globe of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as locusts: he that stretcheth out the heavens as nothing, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in." (Isa 40:22) A globe has three dimensions and not two dimensions and that's that.

NO, YOU DID NOT A dogma is a truth appertaining to faith or morals, revealed by God, transmitted from the Apostles in the Scriptures or by tradition, and proposed by the Church for the acceptance of the faithful. The dogmas of the Catholic Church mainly refer to the Trinity, the Virgin Mary and the Church. There is no dogma about the Earth being flat, never was. If you claim there is such dogma, can you tell us what Council proclaimed such thing?.

Then Hugh Ross is incorrect, but that isn't surprising considering that he is an astrophysicist, and we're talking about biology. Here is the order of creation in genesis: God creates heavan and earth God creates light. God creates water. God creates land. God creates grass, herbs and trees. God creates 2 lights in the sky (the sun and moon) God creates fish, birds and whales God creates livestock, creatures that move along the ground, and wild animals, and man God then creates women. Here is the order of the fossil record (and cosmology in general) Sun is formed Earth forms Moon forms from collision of two protoplanets (moon is a mirror btw, not smaller light) Seas form Bacteria and protozoa evolve Plants and Animals differentiate Multicellular animals and plants evolve Jawless Fish and Placoderms evolve Cartilage and Bony fish evolve Land is colonised by amphibians Trees evolve Reptiles evolve. Mammals and birds evolve. Whales evolve. Man evolves. As you can see, the two don't match up. For example: 1. In Genesis, the earth is formed before the Sun and Moon. 2. In Genesis, the Sun is formed after light 3. In Genesis, the moon is describes as a second light, rather than a mirror. 4. In Genesis, trees form before marine life. 5. In Genesis, plants form before the Sun does. 6. In the fossil record, birds (120MY) and whales (60MY) appear nearer the end (birds before whales) - whereas in Genesis the form at the same time as fish, and before the creatures they evolved from (also, whales are mammals, which according to Genesis are created the next day 7. In Genesis, wild animals, ground creatures and livestock all form simultaneous, whereas in the fossil record they are very much seperated to a variety of locations (ground creatures appearing just after fish for example). 8. In Genesis 2 (the second creation account) man and woman are created one after another, whereas the scientific evidence points to the sexes co-evolving. As you can see, it should have been quite simple for Hugh Ross to compare and contrast the different accounts, to find out that they do not match up very well at all. Even a very cursory knowledge of the fossil record should have told him that the order of Genesis was in conflict with general revelation. I am yet to meet a scientist who claims that the order of the fossil record is not in conflict with the order of creation in Genesis, sorry. In the Book of Job, God tells him the stars already existed when the Earth was created: 38:4 Where wast thou when I laid up the foundations of the earth ? tell me if thou hast understanding. 38:5 Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it? 38:6 Upon what are its bases grounded? or who laid the corner stone thereof, 38:7 When the morning stars praised me together, and all the sons of God made a joyful melody?

The Priest (minister of the apostolic succession) can give you the absolution because Christ died in the Cross and so His sacrifice is enough to give redemption to every sinner in history. Without this imesurable ocean of grace, no Priest (no matter how properly ordained) in the world could possibly give you any absolution for your sins.

-MOBI----THE WORDHOLOCAUST is defined as the slaughter of six million jews in world war two-by hitler & his Nazi-party--HOW can you include this horrendous reference of six-million Jewish men--women--& children-murdered--tortured--conducted medical experiments--upon & then use that term in a reference of an incense used in the catholic church?? This terminology is a slap in the face of those six million jews & the few survivors you might just as well walk up to a jewish man--woman or child & SPIT in their face---- then say happy holocaust---merry holocaust--sssshhheeessshhhh-- Webster's Dictionary defines holocaust as: "A burnt sacrifice; an offering, the whole of which was consumed by fire, among the Jews and some pagan nations." The ritual sacrifice of holocaust is explained in the Book of Leviticus.

Yes, I know that the priesthood existed in the OT. It was not necesary to quote that pile of OT scriptures. Now, will you please answer my question? That "pile of OT Scriptures" is our faith, what God mercifully reveals to us: "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them." (Matt 5:17) The Scriptures say that Abraham the Patriarch believed in the very same things we "crazy catholics" believe!. Surprise!.

Hi there! These thread has been open because "of my fault" and it's only logical for me to debate this issue but I won't, you know why? Because of Matt 12:31-32 : "For this reason I say unto you, every sin and injurious speaking shall be forgiven to men, but speaking injuriously of the Spirit shall not be forgiven to men. And whosoever shall have spoken a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him; but whosoever shall speak against the Holy Spirit, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this age nor in the coming one". The sins committed against the Holy Spirit won't be forgiven probably because there is not enough penance for the person responsible for such sin. The sins against the Holy Spirit are those who slander His manifestations to us, in this chapter Jesus casts out demons and the pharisees accuse Him of working with the Devil's power so He teaches us that the sins against Him may be forgiven (that's why jews, muslims, mormons, etc.... can be saved) but the sins against the Holy Spirit won't be forgiven. If I debate this with you, because you have an anti-catholic stance you will probably commit a sin against the Holy Spirit and so I don't want to be responsible for such a thing because then both of our souls would be lost forever so I won't debate it. JEZU UFAM TOBIE

The very fist icons of Jesus Christ (of the 2nd century) portray Him with long hair.

God says only men can be Priests because He chooses men only. As for Peter, he says this: "But you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people belonging to God, that you may declare the praises of him who called you out of darkness into his wonderful light." (1Peter 2:9) Any believer can become a Priest if he wants to but of course, not all believers become Priests, only a few who persevere (just like everybody can be saved but not everybody chooses to be saved).

...And he gave to Simon Peter And to all the twelve The keys of the Kingdom So darkness can never prevail But some of the shepherds Have pastured themselves On their sheep So he has come out against them And scattered His people of faith But there still is One faith, one hope, And one baptism One God and Father of all There is one Church One body One life in the Spirit Now given so freely to all. . . "One Faith" ~ John Michael Talbot And to all the twelve????? That J.M. Talbot guy gotta check his biblical facts: "I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven" (Matt 16:19) Christ gave the supreme authority to one of the disciples only and that makes sense because no more than 1 person can have the final authority.

He is the Head of the Body: "And he is the head of the body, the church" (Col 1:18) but that body happens to be the Church.