On 12/15/2019 at 5:53 PM, Walter Goraj jr said:

ok.  I didn't feel completely comfortable posting that last night. I wouldn't like to be called a calvinist as well.  Do you also believe that we are now living in the new earth age?

We live under the canopy of the new and everlasting covenant. I don't know what you mean by the "new earth age." I never heard of that before nor do I know how anyone could say that.

Once the Lord returns, all things will be restored just as He promised (Rev. 21:5). 

23 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

I rewrote it, I was in a hurry, but it makes perfect sense. But the stiff necked will not heed instruction God says. 

 

And I shant try to prove you wrong again as per what it means, I already did it once.

The Harlot is ALL FALSE RELIGION, and shes still on earth, so you are all over the place man. 

Israel REPENTS during the 70th week.

All this meant nothing via YOUR CONTEXT because you have everything backwards, so there is no use replying to this portion.

So you can't understand plain writing ? Its means IN HASTE........He {Jesus} will come FAST/SPEEDILY/In Haste when he comes......NOT SOON. 

I'm not going to waste my time with people who get their doctrine from the internet or from the mouth of dispensationalist which is a cult that took off about 200 years ago. 

Have a nice day.

18 hours ago, Walter Goraj jr said:

bingo... preterist

The truth has no labels. Deal with what I said.

18 hours ago, Walter Goraj jr said:

You actually didn't answer the question ( I'm sorry I didn't know they KJV  would freak you out) if you believe everything happened in that " generation"  then  what about v.30... did Jesus Christ come already?

About verse 30, yes, Jesus "came" but not as you assume. Notice that Jesus did not mention the end of time, but rather He used metaphorical language that everyone understood in those days very well (except modern Christianity). Coming in the clouds means the coming of judgment against the people that not only rejected their own Messiah, but also persecuted to the dead Jews that believed in Him (Isa. 19:1; Jer. 4:12, Rev. 1:7, 7:1-3; 1 Thes. 2:14-16) 

The "sign of the Son of Man" means "A SIGN" which pointed to the destruction of the temple, the destruction of Jerusalem and the end of the age (old covenant age) just as Jesus prophesied in Mat. 22:1-14, Matt. 23:34-38, Lk 11:49-51. When judgment against Jerusalem and against the false Jews that had rejected their own Messiah came, they remembered what Jesus had said 40 years previously and understood the SIGN OF THE TIMES (Rev. 1:7).

Let me remind you that the bible was not written to us directly, but to a people that lived in a certain time and who understood things differently than we do. So you need to take into consideration the culture of the day, the language difference (Jews spoke in picture language using much exaggerations to make a point. Greeks didn't because they spoke in abstract concepts). 

Do

1 hour ago, Revelation Man said:

This is why people that are not Preachers whose job it is to know these things {in some cases that don't work} or people who study these things in depth should be leaned upon, you are trying to interpret a word that doesn't mean what you think it means, Old English is hard enough to understand, I can show you English you can't even read brother. On top of that they got in TRANSLATION MEANING Wrong, or either the word means what it means in the old English and like gay meant HAPPY in the 30's, it changed. We can look at my Hebrew and Greek site to understand this Greek words real meaning. The Greek word used for quickly here is TACHOS and its where we get the English word Tachometer from. It doesn't really mean quickly as on soon, it means quickly as in VROOM, VROOM, VROOM, when I come it will be SWIFT, FAST, in the Blink of an Eye etc. etc. 

The same word is used in Rev. 1:1 except SHORTLY is used, and it is used fir TWO Greek words at once, EN.....and TACHOS. Lets look at what both really mean and what this word you site means. It seems ALL your Eschatology is wrapped around ONE WORD you do not full comprehend. 

Rev. 1:1¶ The Reuelation 602 of Iesus 2424 Christ, 5547 which 3739 God 2316 gaue 1325 z5656 vnto him, 846 to shewe 1166 z5658 vnto his y846 x848 seruants 1401 things which 3739 must 1163 z5748 shortly 1722 5034 come to passe; 1096 z5635 and 2532 he sent 649 z5660 and signified 4591 z5656 [it] by 1223 his y846 x848 Angel 32 vnto his y846 x848 seruant 1401 Iohn, 2491

Greek word EN.....#1722 ἐν en {en} a primary preposition denoting (fixed) position (in place, time or state)

—Greek Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)

A primary preposition denoting (fixed) position (in place, time or state),

—Strong's (Greek Dictionary of the New Testament)

 

Greek word TACHOS.....#5034 τάχος tachos {takh'-os} from the same as G5036; TDNT - n/a; n n

—Greek Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)

1) quickness, speed

—Thayer's (New Testament Greek-English Lexicon)

From the same as G5036; a brief space (of time), that is, (with G1722 prefixed) in haste:— + quickly, + shortly, + speedily.

—Strong's (Greek Dictionary of the New Testament)

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now lets look at Rev. 22:20 in like manner !!

Rev. 22:20 Hee which testifieth 3140 z5723 these things, 5023 saith, 3004 z5719 Surely, 3483 I come 2064 z5736 quickly. 5035 Amen. 281 Euen so, 3483 Come 2064 z5736 Lord 2962 Iesus. 2424

 

#5035 ταχύ tachu {takh-oo'} neuter singular of G5036 (as adverb); TDNT - n/a; adv

—Greek Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)

1) quickly, speedily (without delay)

—Thayer's (New Testament Greek-English Lexicon)

Neuter singular of G5036 (as adverb); shortly, that is, without delay, soon, or (by surprise) suddenly, or (by implication of ease) readily:—lightly, quickly.

—Strong's (Greek Dictionary of the New Testament)

Lets look at the Rev. 1:1 verse first, its OBVIOUS what this means, the EN means at a FIXED POINT IN TIME {FUTURE EVENT that only the Father knows when it will start thus Jesus uses EN, at a future point in time} God the Father will send me an I will come IN HASTE.........FAST {Tachos, vroom, vroom, vroom} Speedily, in a FLASH or in the blink of an eye, because I am God and can move swiftly !! It doesn't mean SHORTLY, it means in a short frame of time I will come, as soon as the Father sends me, at a TIME only He knows !! 

Likewise, Rev. 22:20 is a Greek word Tachu, same root word basically, as you see above, it can mean SUDDENLY by SURPRISE, it also means Quickly, and speedily or without DELAY........But the Father has to send Jesus first !! And Jesus DOESN'T KNOW the time nor day, because he told us He doesn't know the time nor day, and that ONLY the Father knows, so for Him to be saying hes coming SOON would make Jesus a liar. Hes not a liar, hes coming IN HASTE when the Father sends him !!

So every bit of your Eschatology is based on a FALSE ASSUMPTION brother, reading the word would have and should have told you that Jesus doesn't know when he is coming again, this he couldn't tell you or anyone it would be soon,  but he does that that when the Father sends him, at a FIXED POINT IN TIME {future by definition} that he will come SWIFTLY and without DELAY, Vroom, vroom, vroom !! Amen.

P.S. We know Jerusalem was destroyed in 70 AD, HINT........If the Jews had of accepted Jesus when he came Jesus would have rescued them in 70 AD. But they rejected him, and God already {of course} knew they would reject him. 

All you eschatology went down a rabbit hole with you not understanding what a Greek word translated/interpreted into Old Englishe meant.....

Do me a favor and please respond to what I said first before giving me your understanding of what you believe, that by the way, it didn't make much sense,

I said, 

"Surely I am coming quickly" does not mean 2,000 + years into the future, but QUICKLY! Jesus returned to judge the harlot Israel by using the Romans, and to do away with all the wicked Jews that had up to that time been persecuting and killing His true Israel (a people of faith in their Messiah). 

All you have to do read what Jesus CLEARLY said in Mat. 23:34-38, in some of His parable that were meant for unbelieving Israel (Mat. 22:1-14) and then read 1 Thes. 2:14-16 as a follow up. Then read your history (the Jewish-Roman wars that took place in AD 66-70) 

Since when quickly means 2,000 years plus??? 

4 hours ago, Walter Goraj jr said:

ok. so I use the strongs concordance and the englishman's Greek Concordance along with the Easton Bible dictionary. This is all for the King James version, which I consider to be one of the best translations available- some may not agree with that but I've never studied a  Bible that is so consistent from the Old Testament to the New Testament as the King James, especially when you add the Strong's Concordance. When using these  study materials I really do get a more in depth perspective of the word( by no means am I faulting the Lexicon you are using).

How about v.30 when Jesus comes. You don't think that happened in the first century?

I don't care about the kjv. I actually hate it because it is 412 years old and reads like Shakespeare being constipated while trying to poop. So, it you want a real Bible that can be understood, use the NASB or the NKJV, otherwise, you are going to wind up loving the translation but never getting to read it from cover to cover. Don't be part of the kjvo where people love the name but actually never read it because therein thousands of words that we no longer use, much less understand. 

So, let's get back to what Jesus said in Mat. 23:36, 24:34, Mark 13:30. The events the Lord was talking about were going to take place in their own generation, and it did, but I won't waste my time if you don't want to learn the truth. 

1 hour ago, Walter Goraj jr said:

ok. I am not a Greek scholar so thank God for study tools ( although they can't be completely trusted like the Bible). The Greek word for generation in Matthew 24:34 is "genea" #1074. In other places in the Bible it is translated as "age","nation"or "time". I think sometimes the translator (KJV) didn't always use the best suited word for the context. Perhaps there is more of an understanding to the word generation then just a period of 38 years.

In any event when you compare some of these verses in Matthew 24 with the rest of the Bible you really get a good idea of what's going on. Hey, this discussion isn't too hard to reconcile. There are actually people out there  that think that we're living in the new earth age, that Christ actually came back the second time. Can you imagine that?

GENERATION:
11.4 γενεάa, ᾶς f: people living at the same time and belonging to the same reproductive age-class—‘those of the same time, those of the same generation.’ ἐκζητηθήσεται ἀπὸ τῆς γενεᾶς ταύτης ‘the people of this generation will be punished’ Lk 11:51.
The expression ‘the people of this generation’ may also be expressed as ‘the people living now’ or ‘the people of this time.’ Successive generations may be spoken of as ‘groups of people who live one after the other’ or ‘successions of parents and children.’

Louw, Johannes P., and Eugene Albert Nida. Greek-English lexicon of the New Testament: based on semantic domains 1996 : 119. Print.

3 minutes ago, Walter Goraj jr said:

Hi again. Can I ask you something? Do you consider yourself a preterist?

No, I don't. 

20 hours ago, Alive said:

Rev. 22:20   He who testifies to these things says, “Surely I am coming quickly.”

Did this already happen?

Absolutely! "Surely I am coming quickly" does not mean 2,000 + years into the future, but QUICKLY! Jesus returned to judge the harlot Israel by using the Romans, and to do away with all the wicked Jews that had up to that time been persecuting and killing His true Israel (a people of faith in their Messiah). 

All you have to do read what Jesus CLEARLY said in Mat. 23:34-38, in some of His parable that were meant for unbelieving Israel (Mat. 22:1-14) and then read 1 Thes. 2:14-16 as a follow up. Then read your history (the Jewish-Roman wars that took place in AD 66-70) 

20 hours ago, Walter Goraj jr said:

Mt.24:3 "... and what  shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?" (looks like the disciples themselves had an interest in the end of history)

("this generation" in v.34 could also be understood as"age"strong's #1074. Many believers refer to time of Christ on earth  to the last day of the world as the generation of Jesus Christ, since He is the last).

 Where does it say that Jesus was talking about the end of the world and where is the context of what He was saying to His own DISCIPLES??? Your understanding of these scriptures are totally irrelevant to Jesus' disciples since all of the things Jesus said to them was nothing but mere information that applied to no one in particular except for a far, far, far future generation that probably hasn't been born yet. 

Think about it before you respond please. 

By the way, "this generation" means it was it says, not what you would like it to mean. This generation means 'THIS GENERATION"!!! Not 2,000 plus years into the future. 

12 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

Is this a joke ? SMH.......

I'm dead serious. Prove that the book of Revelation was written for a futuristic people that probably haven't been born yet. If that is the case, this book has been nothing but a joke for the last 2,000 years since no one can interpret it correctly because it cannot be proven. 

5 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

I knew you wouldn't try to debate that argument or nullify my points point by point, because you can't. Its easy to stick to belief of others without pointing out the whys, wheres, hows etc. etc. 

A the drop of a hat I can explain any part of this book in detail. That's because I actually learned what it means. It high;y symbolic, but every symbol has an actual meaning. Its like getting this......AHOP81M @#& uhASPZ  and this being a code that says God is love, it actually has a meaning, even if its a code.

Start by proving that the book of Revelation is a book for the future. Chapter and verse will end the discussion. 

14 hours ago, R. Hartono said:

Sir,

This has yet to come when Jesus comes for His bride : 

Rev 1:7 Behold, He cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see Him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.                                                                                                                                       

Rev 16: 16 And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.                                                  

And the kings of the world with their armies will battle Him at the Armageddon battle to decide who will rule on the earth. After the 7 years of great tribulation.

What you posted is nothing but your personal opinions. Prove with chapter and verse that the book of Revelation was written to an unknown people of the far, far future.  

Thanks,

On 12/10/2019 at 6:35 PM, Revelation Man said:

No, you/we need to ask God to show you/us what it means. That is how I came to understand the book of Revelation in full. I asked God, after being called to Prophecy, why after 25 or so years I was in a rut, why there was 100's of understanding to what Babylon is, the 144,000 is, the Harlot is etc. etc. and  I got this, "You guys already know everything Ron".

DO YOU GET THAT ? God was saying that the reason we don't understand Prophecy/Revelation is because we defer to MEN, just like the Pharisees did when Jesus was alive, they deferred to "MEN'S TRADITIONS" Jesus said. We do the same with Prophecy/Revelation/Daniel because as young Christians we see these things as over our heads, so we heed MEN'S THOUGHTS and we take on these traditions over time and we NEVER DO THE SIMPLE THING, we never Ask God to show us!! We asked God when reading the Gospels to show us His truths, but we lean on MEN when we are young Christians via Prophetic things, the book of Revelation etc. etc.  So we latch onto Men's Understandings and its hard for God to overcome these traditions so to speak.

So I started over, forgot everything I had taken in, as I read the book of Revelation, Daniel, Ezekiel etc. I asked God to show me and guess what, it works!

The Book of Revelation's Chronological Order........

Rev. 1 is the things John has seen {Jesus Glorified}

Rev. 2 and 3 are the things which ARE {Church Age}

Everything after Rev. 4:1 {Rapture} is the things which are {HEREAFTER}

Rev. 4 and 5 is the Church in heaven AFTER the Rapture and BEFORE the Seals are opened, the 24 Elders have all the gifts promised to the Churches in Rev. 2 and 3, the Crowns, Thrones etc. etc.

Rev. 6, 7, 8, 9, 15&16 are the Judgment Chapters that finish off Satan’s control on earth while being over mankind. Its what I cal the Judgment Chapters, the Seal, Trump and Vial judgments are in these chapters. These are REAL TIME EVENTS.

Rev. 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 17, 18 and 19 are Parenthetical Citation Chapters and all of these chapters happen DURING the Judgment Chapters in red above. They are not REAL TIME EVENTS per se.

Rev. 10 is a flash forward to the end.

Rev. 11 is the Two-witnesses chapter, its all about the 42 month ministry of the Two-witnesses, it starts 75 days BEFORE the A.C. becomes the Beast or conquers Jerusalem {SEE Daniel 12, the 1290, 1335 and 1260} or the holy peoples. They die at the 6th Trump {2nd Woe} 75 days before the Beast dies at the 7th Vial. We see the 2nd Woe spoken about in Rev. 11, BUT we get the Details of the 2nd Woe in Rev. 9 where it actually happens. Likewise, we see the 7th Trump sound {3rd Woe} and are told Jesus WINS in ch. 11…….But we are not given the Details, which are given in Rev. chapter 16. We do however see that Jesus wins because the Two-witnesses pray down all the plagues before they die, they PRAY DOWN the 3rd Woe, which is the 7th Trump. {See Rev. 8:13, the last three Trumps ARE the three Woes.}

Rev. 12 is Satan being cast out of Heaven and chasing the Woman {Israel} this happens in Re. ch. 6, of course. All the Seals are opened on day 1261, thus there is 1260 days for the Dragon to chase the Woman {Seal #6} and she has a place ready for her to hide in for 1260 days {Petra}.

Rev. 13 also happens in Rev. 6, the First Seal, actually the first four Seals are the Anti-Christs/Beasts ACTIONS over a 42 month period in each case. 42 Months of Conquering, War, Famine and Death, Sickness & the Grave. The 5th Seal is his Martyrs over  the same 42 month period, then God announces his Wrath over a 42 month period via seal #6. All Seals are opened on day 1261, leaving 1260 days of Beast rule and Satan on earth. 

Rev. 14 is the Harvest Chapter, we see the 144,000 which I contend is ALL Israel {we see them in Rev. 7 where God holds up the Trump judgments until they are PROTECTED in Petra IMHO, the 144,000 is a Metaphor, meaning ALL Israel, 12 x 12,000 = ALL Israel} and thus when the 144,000 are seen on Mt Zion, with Jesus rescuing them, they are THE WHEAT and the Wicked Tares of the world are seen in Rev. 14:18–20, they are bound or killed via the Wine-press of God’s Wrath where they will await in the grave to be BURNED UP in 1000 years at the Second Death. In a sorta Soliloquy, we see the Rapture in verse 14, where Jesus takes the Church up to Heaven to be with the Lord, so this is the Harvest Chapter. This chapter therefore covers the full 7 years in essence.

Rev. 17 is about the Harlot, not Babylon, Babylon is one of her Four Descriptors or NAME TAGS on the Harlot like Harlots of old wore headbands on their head so their clients could identify them. MYSTERY, {COMMA} Babylon the Great, Mother of Harlots AND Abominations of the Earth. All four of these identify what ? ALL FALSE RELIGION of All Time !! Mystery Religions that went underground after Shem killed Nimrod. Babylon was her Zenith or Birth place. Semiramis was the Mother of FALSE RELIGION and of course God sees any worship of any god other than Himself as an ABOMINATION, we know this via Leviticus.

The Harlot is KILLED OFF in Rev. 17:16, the kings in league with the Beast HATE HER and kill her off. But why ? Because there is no place in the Beasts world for Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism, Witchcraft, Judaism etc. all, the Beast will DEMAND to be Worshiped as the ONLY god, or else !! This is where most of his 1/4 of all mankind deaths happen {2 billion people}, the Christians are in Heaven at this time save the Remnant Church of Rev. 12:17 {Gentiles saved AFTER the Rapture who become the Martyrs under the Altar at the 5th Seal.} This chapter starts in Rev. ch. 6 also.

Rev. 18 is about Babylon {THE WORLD under Satan or his Dark Kingdom on Earth} getting hit with the Seal, Trump and Vial Judgments, so it runs from Rev. 6 to Rev. 16. When God says COME OUT OF HER my people in verse 4, lest you receive of her sins and plagues He is telling Israel to Flee Judea to Petra. In verse 2 when God says Babylon is the habitation of Devils, it simply refers to the fact that Satan and his Demons have been cast out of Heaven and down to earth, AND that Apollyon {the Scarlet Colored Beast of Rev. 17} has been released from the bottomless pit, so Babylon or THE WORLD is now a habitation of devils.

Babylons {The World} Merchants no doubt are CRYING, the Seals kill 2 Billion people, the Trumps BURN all the grasses and 1/3 of the trees, 1/3 of the Seas turn to blood and 1/3 of the fish die, 1/3 of the ships are destroyed and 1/3 of all the fresh waters are poisoned, and the 7 Vials are even worse, the 2nd Woe kills 1/3 of the remaining people on earth, about 1.5 billion people. So of course the Merchants are crying and wailing. No crops, no trees, much smoke, much deaths, etc. etc.

Babylon’s Judgment comes in ONE DAY {Day of the Lord} and her Judgment also comes in ONE HOUR { See Rev. 17:12, the Kings rule with the Beast for ONE HOUR = 42 Months}. So the Day of the Lord lasts 1260 days or 42 months and ONE HOUR also = 42 months. So Babylon’s Judgment comes over a 42 month period running from Rev. chapter 6, the First Seal to Rev. 16:19, the 7th Vial. God even states in Rev. 16:19 that GREAT BABYLON has been defeated, Go read it guys. And who is He referring to ? We have to look back at the 6th Vial to see this, but it basically says this, the THREE DEMON FROGS, entice the Kings of the WHOLE WORLD to come do battle with God. Fighting God can only be CONFUSION, and Babel means CONFUSION, why else would anyone in their right minds fight against God ? Satan has deceived the masses on earth, and when God defeats them, He calls them Babylon the Great !!

Rev. 19 is the Church, seen in Heaven, then we Marry the Lamb, return with Jesus where he defeats the Beast and his Kings at Armageddon, which is the Marriage Supper. Thus Rev. 19 also covers the full 7 years.

Rev. 20 is the Judgment Seat chapter. Rev. 21 and 22 is the Ever after and New Jerusalem.

The Chronology is solved. So you assuming I am taking one verse/chapter out of context are pretty far adrift from the facts brother. 

There is  nothing in the book of Revelation that points to a future age. You need to start reading the other 65 books ad understand why Jesus came and what He accomplished. Leave Revelation alone and stop playing the guru game of a future age. What you posted above is embarrassing.  

18 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

You do the same thing he does brother, just on the other extreme. He sees the RCC/Pope, and that is a head fake by Satan. But so is Israel being the Harlot. Go read Rev. 16:19, it tells us plainly what Babylon is, because it says that God sees those Jesus defeats as Babylon the Great. Who did he defeat then ? Well the 6th Vial tells us, the THREE DEMON FROGS gather the Kings of the......WHOLE WORLD......to battle against God. But that just means that the Babylon reference means the Whole World under Satan's Rule, that is not THE HARLOT, so who is she ?

Hint, she is KILLED OFF in Rev. 17:16, the Kings HATE HER, but in Rev. 18 the Kings cry and lament when Babylon {WORLD} is destroyed.

Harlots of old wore a Headband/Name on their heads to identify them to their customers. So Mystery {COMMA}, Babylon the Great, Mother of Harlots and Abominations of all the Earth IDENTIFY HER !! 

She is ALL FALSE RELIGION of All Time. She is the Mystery Religions of Babylon, Greece, Rome etc. etc. she is Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism, Witchcraft etc.

Her Mystery Religions went underground when Shem killed Nimrod. She was at her Zenith in Babylon, Semiramis was the Mother of False Religions and of course God sees ALL FALSE Religions, gods as an Abomination, as we see in Leviticus.

Those are NAME TAGS identifying who she is. 

Israel is not the Harlot, nor is the RCC. You both are being faked out. Follow the FACTS !!

 

There is no extreme views from my part. Actually, I believe I have an understanding of the scriptures which makes a lot more sense than most because is 100% Christ centered and Christ glorifying.  I don't go for what's popular or worse, just because 90% of the church believes God is a God of the future and will accomplish what He hasn't accomplished yet. 

I believe that the Lord accomplished all things just as the OT prophesied and now, (not in the future), He sits on the throne of Glory as the final and eternal descendant of David the king. 

One last note, you cannot isolate one verse of Revelation and give it your own personal meaning. Chapters and verses are not inspired. Chapters were created in 1,100 AD while verses came about 300 years thereafter. Chapters and verses are helpful in finding passages in the Bible, but such divisions have often obscured the meaning of Scripture by breaking sentences in the middle or by separating thoughts that should be joined together.

If you want to learn what Revelation means or at least have a better understanding, you need to read the book about 100 times and get a picture in your head as to why it was written to seven churches of the first century, look at the history of those days and try to understand what the churches understood as the prophecies were given to them in picture language. 

On 12/5/2019 at 3:17 AM, R. Hartono said:

In Aug or Sept ? 2012 i had a dream of seeing Pope Benedict was eating from a bowl, God then let me had a look into the bowl, it was just some scrap of food remaining, then in early 2013 Benedict immediately resigned.

In February 2013 while i was watching TV i suddenly saw a man appeared in front of me and then immediately disappeared again twice, he was in religious attribute, i didnt know who that was. When the new Pope was elected in March 2013 God reminded me of the vision and i recognized him, this below picture is the same with his appearance in the vision.

I dont know what will become of this man, but some people assume him as the 8th king of Revelation. Just sharing.

I dont mind if people think this is only an illusion.

https://www.worldslastchance.com/end-time-prophecy/revelation-17-prophecy-of-the-seven-kings-8th-king-identified.html

This is parallel with the prophecy of St.Maleachy regarding Peter the Roman.

We dont really have much time remains, do we ? As in the days of Noah, nobody really cares.

 

Totally ridiculous. The book of Revelation is not about the Pope or some sort of sinister idiot that most Christians are waiting for. The book of Revelation was strictly written for the 7 churches of Asia Minor. Nothing spooky about that. Revelation is a book that deals with the judgment of harlot Israel and all the false Jews that rejected the Lord; it is about the end of the old covenant, and the supremacy of Christ over all creation. 

1 hour ago, Butch5 said:

Oneness isn't a Binlical doctrine. Jesus is not the Father and the Father is not Jesus. Paul plainly tells us that Jesus shall reign till all enemies are put under Him. Then He will turn the Kingdom over to the Father. And, Jesus will be subject to the Father. 

Word games aren't going to change that. Jesus doesnt reign forever, the Father does.

Who is talking about oneness here? God is one God revealed in three distinct persons. The Father is God, the Son is God and the Holy Spirit is God. God the Father cannot be God without God the Son and God the Spirit. God the Son cannot be God without God the Father and God the Holy Spirit. God the Holy Spirit cannot be God without God the Father and God the Son. 

The Father cannot reign without the Son and the Spirit. Did you know that there is only one throne in heaven? This is Christianity 101. 

By the way, our original discussion had to do with dispensationalism. I say it again, this doctrine is false from the get-go. 

Do you care to debate me on the unbiblical teachings of dispensationalism? 

17 hours ago, Butch5 said:

I don't think it's me that needs the refresher. Note what I said, "I don't see the Father reigning on the throne". Jesus doesn't reign forever, The Father does. 

 24 Then comes the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power.
 25 For He must reign till He has put all enemies under His feet.
 26 The last enemy that will be destroyed is death.
 27 For "He has put all things under His feet1." But when He says "all things are put under Him," it is evident that He who put all things under Him is excepted.
 28 Now when all things are made subject to Him, then the Son Himself will also be subject to Him who put all things under Him, that God may be all in all. (1 Cor. 15:24-28 NKJ)

Paul clearly states that Christ will reign until all enemies are put under His feet. Then He, Christ, will turn over the Kingdom to the Father and Christ Himself will be subject unto the Father. The Father will reign forever.

I don't see the earthly Kingdom and I don't see the Father reigning on earth. So, that's why I believe the tribulation in Mathew 24 is future.

 

Have you forgotten that Jesus is God and that God has revealed Himself in three distinct persons? If Jesus is not reigning, God is not reigning  because Jesus is God. 

2 hours ago, Butch5 said:

Well, I'm not one of them. To answer your question. I don't see Jesus anywhere. I don't see the Father reigning on the throne. We find in Jeremiah that in the kingdom there will be no more tears in Israel. I don't see peace in Israel. They're constantly under attach. All of these things are indicators of the Kingdom. 

You don't see Jesus reigning in heaven? He is Lord of all (Eph. 1:20-22, Mat. 28:18, Heb. 1:3). Perhaps you need a refreshment course on the epistles of Paul and the book of Hebrews where Jesus who is God reigns forever. 

On 10/16/2019 at 11:57 AM, Butch5 said:

Not sure how this affects what I said.  Jesus stated in Mathew that He would return after the Tribulation.  

29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
 30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. (Matt. 24:29-30 KJV) 

What makes you think that the tribulation that Matthew 24 was talking about in the first century,  has to do with a far future fulfillment of 2,000 years  later?

I find it very odd that most Christians don't know how to read or interpret the scriptures correctly. 

21 hours ago, Tampered With said:

Would moderation at some point moderate. Please!

Yes, go ahead and moderate your scriptures. None of what you claim is found in the scriptures. God does not dwell on earth, but in heaven (Isa. 66:1). 

Jesus is GOD.

On 10/29/2019 at 2:10 PM, Tampered With said:

I read, study, and understand Bible Scripture as It is written. 

No, you deny Gal. 3 as it is written because national, modern and secular Israel is more important than what Jesus accomplished at the cross? 

For me it will always be Jesus + Nothing. 

40 minutes ago, Tampered With said:

It was not possible for the Abrahamic Covenant to be fulfilled in Christ's first appearance on earth because of what the Abrahamic Covenant entails however Christ will fulfill the Abrahamic Covenant upon His Second Coming as recorded in the Book of Revelation and as described by the Old Testament Prophets. Christ fulfills the complete Abrahamic Covenant to a now saved Israel.  It is quite clear for those with ears to hear, eyes that see clearly, and an understanding quickened by the Spirit of God. We gentile believers are graphed into this promise (see all of Romans 11) but remember: 

Romans 11:29 Amplified Bible (AMP)

²⁹ For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable [for He does not withdraw what He has given, nor does He change His mind about those to whom He gives His grace or to whom He sends His call].

This has nothing to do with "the Law", Christ Completed His Salvation Mission; this has to do with the rest of God's Plan for the universe. The Bible did not end at Calvary it was just the beginning  of "Spiritual Life." One can't stay a "spiritual infant" just born again forever; at some point we all have to start growing up in the Lord and understanding. Praise God!

 

OK, so you deny the scriptures I provided because you already decided what to to believe? Got cha! 

20 minutes ago, Tampered With said:

"All admit the importance of the Abrahamic Covenant in understanding biblical revelation, but not all agree on its interpretation. Genesis 12 is a pivotal statement of the covenant because it contains God’s first recorded speech to Abraham. There God promises to make Abraham a great nation, to bless him, and to make his name great. Genesis 15 makes clear that the LORD took upon Himself alone the responsibility for fulfilling the covenant. Genesis 17 adds the revelation that the covenant would be everlasting. Genesis 18 and 22 restate terms of the covenant in connection with the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah and the offering of Abraham’s son Isaac. Exodus through Deuteronomy describe the initial outworking of the Abrahamic Covenant. The elements of the covenant are threefold: making Abraham into a great nation, blessing Abraham personally, and blessing all nations in Abraham. The promises of the covenant are unconditional. The rest of the OT repeatedly refers back to God’s oath to Abraham in the Torah. The NT does the same by pointing out that Jesus Christ, Abraham’s seed, will make possible the final fulfillment of that covenant in the future." Excerpt from: THE ABRAHAMIC COVENANT, Keith H. Essex, Assistant Professor of Bible Exposition

 

The Abrahamic covenant was fulfilled in Christ. 

Galatians 3:7–8 (NIV)

"Understand, then, that those who have faith are children of Abraham.

⁸ Scripture foresaw that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, and announced the gospel in advance to Abraham: “All nations will be blessed through you.”

Galatians 3:13–14 (NASB95)

"Christ redeemed us from the curse of the Law, having become a curse for us—for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree”—

¹⁴ in order that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we would receive the promise of the Spirit through faith."

Galatians 3:16 (NASB95)

"Now the promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. He does not say, “And to seeds,” as referring to many, but rather to one, “And to your seed,” that is, Christ."

2 hours ago, Montana Marv said:

There inheritance is the Land. Yet Daniel will die. But at the end he shall rise to receive his inheritance, the Land.

Christ will rule 1000 years with a rod of iron.  Why, because of all idol worshipers who came out of the 70th Week.

In Christ

Montana Marv

Nope. Their inheritance was conditional to their obedience so unless you can provide chapter and verse where they repented after they lost the land in A.D. 70 while the Jews were scattered to the nearby nations. The fact is that the destruction of the temple and the setting of the entire city of Jerusalem on fire was the result of God's judgment against them for having killed His Son, for having killed His prophets and for having persecuted both Jews and Gentiles to the death afterwards. You have no case. 

Matthew 23:34–38 (NIV)

"Therefore I am sending you prophets and sages and teachers. Some of them you will kill and crucify; others you will flog in your synagogues and pursue from town to town.

³⁵ And so upon you will come all the righteous blood that has been shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah son of Berekiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar.

³⁶ Truly I tell you, all this will come on this generation.

³⁷ “Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were not willing.

³⁸ Look, your house is left to you desolate."

1 Thessalonians 2:14–16 (NIV)

"For you, brothers and sisters, became imitators of God’s churches in Judea, which are in Christ Jesus: You suffered from your own people the same things those churches suffered from the Jews

¹⁵ who killed the Lord Jesus and the prophets and also drove us out. They displease God and are hostile to everyone

¹⁶ in their effort to keep us from speaking to the Gentiles so that they may be saved. In this way they always heap up their sins to the limit. The wrath of God has come upon them at last."

Let me know if you want me to provide OT scriptures where the giving of the land to Israel was conditional upon their obedience to God's laws and statutes. Besides that, the land was given to them within the terms of the old covenant promises/responsibilities. Nothing in the NT speaks about giving the Jews the land back after they lost it in A.D. 70, but you are welcome to do a search.