samuelg1

13 hours ago, BibleStudent100 said:

Good morning Samuel:

There are several issues here:

A)  It would NOT be proper and legal to drive a vehicle that is not covered with insurance, as that would not be in accord with Jesus' mandate of pay back to Caesar what is Caesar's (Matthew 22:21).  Still, if that vehicle has insurance, it would probably cover you if you are licensed, which I know you are; a quick check with an insurance agent would confirm this fact.

B)  They are taking advantage of your magnanimity.  Your time and energy are valuable and you should be duly compensated for your driving time and skills in this arena.  We are reminded at  1 Corinthians 13:4, that love "does not look for its own interests;" so have a brief heart to heart talk with your relatives and remind them that you are glad to help out now and then, but that you should be compensated for your time commensurate with the going rate.

Best, 

 

Thank you for your message. I agree.

I contacted R1 and R2 and asked them to check with their insurance to see if I'm covered under their policy. When I asked, they dropped my request to drive them. They didn't even bother to check. 

10 hours ago, Neighbor said:

Wow, just think how long that will feel like to them if the driver is grumbling.

 

If one asks  for a load to be carried a mile take it two. Be of good cheer doing so. Reference Matthew 5:41 

 

 

 

 

And yet when I make an even more minor request of them, they refuse to even acknowledge it. Google "hypocrisy."

9 hours ago, Neighbor said:

Life is hard, and then you die. But ya know it is even harder for the person going to dialysis that can no longer drive themselves as example than it is on the person/people transporting them both ways twice a week.

Praise God for the many that help each other out and also those that fill in for  a driver whenever they can, doing so with  the love of our Lord Jesus on their heart, being real testimony of the grace and the mercy of God in action  in daily matters.

Praise God for the volunteers  for Hospice that drive in the middle of the night to get pain relieving prescriptions and then drive them to the home of one suffering sudden onset of violent pain. Praise God and thanks to all that do volunteer without a grumble, doing so  as the quiet lovers of our Lord the servants doing His will in His name.

This is not about dialysis treatment. Your cynical assumptions are a reflection of your personality not of reality. 

Christian trolling, interesting.

Halloween is satanic. 

12 hours ago, Neighbor said:

Not me. (Q: Why would anyone be seeking out  people unhappy with churches?) I love not one but three local bodies of Christ for the compassion of the membership, the active working by individuals there in living the word glorifying Christ in all that they do. If I have a problem with churches it is that I cannot manage to attend all three that I presently associate with  at the same time. I am up early this AM to see if the one that I missed this week has now posted their service online yet, so  that I can keep up. It may not get posted until Tuesday.

Fortunately for me each  does have archives of their services, prayer lists and notices of opportunity to participate in helping and just fellowshipping  with one another.

 

Well yes of course, the moment you ( or I  ) attend. As Spurgeon is quoted as stating; The day we find the perfect church, it becomes imperfect by our joining with it.

Churches are jealous and covetous with their congregations locally. All three churches I have attended with some regularity have rebuked their congregations for a lack of loyalty. In other words, these pastors expect their congregations to attend their church exclusively. I don't believe the Bible commands or requires this. More egotistical nonsense from the local pastors. 

When these so-called pastors continue to preach from a place of ego and worldly ambition instead of from the Bible, it makes me not want to engage with them. 

I have driven R1 and R2 on many, many trips in the past. For whatever reason I never considered the insurance issue. I don't want to be held 100% liable since it is not my car. If I am insured by the car's policy that is a different matter.

What bothers me is that I have requested a ride on a couple of occasions from R1 and R2 and they never even bothered to return my call or acknowledge the request! I haven't brought this up with them but it does factor into the equation. 

Interesting thoughts! This is an intelligent group and I will take some time to consider what has been written here. 

I've attended several of these small groups.

One was composed of an odd mix of folks, some older, some younger. There was one lady who dominated discussions. She loved to tell stories of her abusive ex husband who she claims threatened and abused her in all manner of vile and criminal ways. She was in very poor health and she was wheezing and coughing the entire time while screaming about how crazy and violent he was towards her. Perhaps not surprisingly, most everyone in the group began to make excuses for why they could no longer attend these meetings (something always came up) and I believe the group disbanded in short order. 

I attended another, this time with younger adults for the most part. This group had a "party" mentality and it became clear that the guys' agenda was to "hook up" with one of the prettier gals in the group. It disbanded due to the pathetic sexual desperation of some (several) of the guys in the group. 

I've begun attending another "small group." I am not hopeful of the group's prospects. Again, these meetings seem to serve as a thinly veiled opportunity for singles to meet. There are some younger adults but the majority are middle aged and older married couples or single folks looking to find a Christian partner. Sadly, there are some newly wed ladies (who are all older) in this group who are acting more like new age, hippie swingers than devoted married folk.

I've heard some stories about the local "young adults" groups and they don't seem to be able to sustain any momentum. One or two or three initial meetings are well attended, then attendance tanks, and the group disbands. Later, one or more of the local churches attempts to revive these meetings, beginning the process all over again. 

On 10/2/2004 at 8:37 AM, George said:

Hello my brothers and sisters in the Lord,

Most people don't realize the radical experiment we are doing here! I want you to imagine yourself -- hundreds of years ago -- when all the different denominations were starting! While everyone was insisting their beliefs were the "only" correct way to worship God -- they were creating more and more splits and divisions!

What we are trying to do at Worthy Boards is unheard of when you think about it! We are trying to unify the body -- while at the same time protect those fundamental truths that we can all agree with -- the need for salvation through Jesus -- the source of truth for living the Christian life found within the Bible. Read our Statement of faith! This experiment hasn't happened before when you really consider it!

Of course, there's the ecumenical movement -- unity for the sake of doctrinal compromises! I'm sorry, but the fundamental doctrines of the faith can't be compromised.

So often though when you have so many different denominations, you have many different avenues of thought that have never been explored by other denominations. Just because a teaching is "different" than one you are used to hearing, doesn't necessarily mean it's wrong -- it may be just different!

But differences of opinion is actually a good thing whether you realize it or not! For God didn't create us to be the SAME body part -- but created us all different so that we could join together to form the body of Christ to complement each other!

Oftentimes I learn by realizing other avenues of thinking presented by various believers. By allowing various avenues of thoughts we expand our horizons and allow the Spirit of God to realign our thoughts with the mind of Christ and continue our growth in the maturity of the Lord.

So before you run out and cry "heretic" or "false teacher", be sure to carefully listen, and observe what someone is saying. I honestly believe that things "heard through the grapevine" have a way of being twisted -- but if you go to the source then you can carefully examine the fruit -- test the fruit -- and then make a judgment -- often times you may find that the red grape you were expecting to find was just a white grape -- it was just a different color, but when you examined the fruit -- you find out its still good fruit!

We need to recognize that every word spoken, we will be judged for. And everyone that is hindered from hearing the gospel because someone feels the need to scream - heretic, false prophet, or demeaning someone in some fashion -- let's just say I wouldn't want to be that person sitting before the Lord at the Bema Seat!

This is a problem that I do have and I want to voice my concerns now and I hope you carefully heed these words. When someone comes into the boards, who is not necessarily a Christian -- the first thing you should do is NOT castigate them.

The first thing you should do before you even post -- what would Jesus do? Did Jesus say -- get away from me you prostitute? or get away from me you heathen? or say give me the first stone because I am without sin?

Jesus didn't go closing doors, He went forth OPENING the DOOR so ALL could enter in!

This was the Lord's prayer to the Father before He was crucified! That we may all be ONE! My wife and I don't agree on everything -- but when we disagree -- we agree to disagree! Sometimes it's best to say -- I agree to disagree!

Love breaks down walls of division and covers a multitude of sins! So may the Love of God be abundant in your hearts so that the world can be radically changed through you!

May the love of God be shown in all of your posts!

Your brother in Christ with much agape love,

George

This sounds almost exactly like the agenda of the Alpha courses. I've commented on their nature and purpose elsewhere where it is appropriate. 

I've heard and read the standard suggestion: go find a new church, God will lead you to the right one.

I'm going to tell you my real world experience. EVERY SINGLE CHURCH I've attended is severely compromised. There really is no such thing as a church which teaches sound Christian doctrine anymore. If they do so, they are only emphasizing the elements which are politically correct these days, in essence, twisting and distorting Christianity to the point of non-recognizability. In effect, most every last church is preaching heretical Christianity though lies of omission rather than commission, and this is typically a best case scenario. Either way, it is deception and therefore heresy. 

I've made multiple attempts to address and correct some of the more severe problems at my current church. It has led to arguments already and I can tell that any more attempts to address problems would lead to a lot of friction and pushback. The destiny of the church is clear: it is being debased by people with their own political agenda and they are all fully backed by all of the pastors. It is a lost cause.

I am totally fine being a Christian who carefully sources secondary sources, books, podcasts in addition to reading (or listening to) the Bible. I am tired of pastors saying stupid things which aren't taught by the Bible. It is making me angry and causing me stress. 

Who else is practicing the same?

Alpha is subversive and heretical. They are promoting Jim Carey and Freddie Mercury as sources of Christian wisdom of all people. They are also promoting multiculturalism and open borders, but not explicitly so. They are trying to sneak it in through the backdoor via imagery, especially through choice of interview subjects. 

Their constant flim flamming around, trying to avoid mention of Jesus is especially suspicious. 

Alpha is a project to water down Christianity and subvert it from within so as to render the church as a source and future base of new age religion.

The sad thing is, this subversiveness is totally unnecessary and redundant. The church is ALREADY severely compromised and is becoming more so everyday. Look at how degenerate the office of the Pope has become. That is the future of Protestantism as well: pro-communist, pro LGBTQ, pro open borders. In other words, 100% heresy and anti Christianity Christianity. 
 

Salt in the wound, as they say. 

edit: if the pastors wear street clothes, especially skinny jeans, the church is heretical! I'm joking, but not really. 

Thanks. I think will do that.

It bothers me that they asked however. Both of my relatives are very devout but their behavior towards me is often appalling. They often insult me to my face and have been doing so for a long time. I try to help family out whenever possible, but putting me in a potential legal bind is crossing the line for me anyway. 

They grew up in an environment which was abusive, hostile, and full of constant conflict. I don't think they have a very good common sense understanding of boundaries or decorum. Still, I love them and want to honor them. I feel like they have dishonored me with these requests. 

It's amazing how they present themselves as basically perfect christians but in family matters, they are so callous and unchristian. It is disgusting really. 

While they don't offer payment per se, they sometimes send me "gifts" which quite frankly are useless and which would just add to the clutter of my house. This stuff is often from stores I can't return them to so it's just a waste. For example, they will send me food which they like, but I don't. Or, they send me some clothing item which I would never wear and can't return. This becomes an additional inconvenience as I have to take it to a donation center to get rid of potential clutter.  

Or, they might offer McDonald's for say, 4 hours of my time. I have helped them out many times in this manner before so they just take it for granted. They actually have plenty of money but are extremely aggressive with their savings. A smart move for sure, but as in the cases above, they waste money in ridiculous ways also. 

I have tried to tell them recently that I don't need and can't use what they offer, but they just tell me to return it, which I usually can't. I just have to give it away somewhere. This all points to a lack of respect which they have displayed many times over. 
 

The pastor should be returning at the beginning of the new year, perhaps a bit sooner. For whatever reason, he needed 3 months to sort out whatever he was or is going through.

The church is starting to tiptoe into political issues as well. 3 of the pastors and at least a couple of invited public speakers have spoken of the importance of "diversity" and "multiculturalism" in various ways and to varying degrees in their sermons in the past year. 

Why does this matter? The church opens it's doors to all christians and all who show some interest: is it now important that racial quotas or percentage targets be met? Are we to have certain political points of view regarding immigration or affirmative action or gay marriage?

A relative (1) asked me to drive another relative (2) for an appointment. The understanding is that I will do this for them without any compensation. The car belongs to R1, so I do not have an insurance policy in the event of an injury or accident. This is at least 4 hours out of my weekend. I will make the same drive a few weekends out if I agree. A total of 8 to 9 hours of my time. 

I think an uber would cost hundreds of dollars. 

I am concerned about legal ramifications in the unlikely event of an accident on any portion of these trips. R1 and R2 are devout christians. I am a christian also. I would like to help. I haven't yet asked them about the insurance question but I am certain I'm not covered as the car is not mine. To me, I think the right thing for my relatives is to cover me under the insurance but I don't think they are willing to do that. They are in a good financial situation overall but finances are tight from what I can tell and they are obviously trying to save money. I feel like they should've placed me on the policy or offered a rental where all passengers are clearly covered as I am doing this as a favor. I don't want to put myself at legal risk by doing them this favor.

What should I do if I am not covered under their insurance policy? Thanks. 

I'm not even sure if I need to do anything, at least not urgently. The pastor has been absent for approximately two months now. I don't know exactly what's going on, but very shortly after delivering his heretical messages, he is now suddenly missing from all church proceedings. 

It's an interesting church in the sense that the church just rolls on, with or without him. I often get the sense that few people at this church care who is "in the pulpit" so to speak. Without going into too much detail, this church has often stated that they want to attract attendees in large numbers, so perhaps none of this is terribly surprising. 

Yes, I believe communication in writing will work better.

I'm not that thrilled about my options in the local area, quite frankly. Maybe it means traveling out of town to find a better church. I'm not obligated to attend this particular church. Thank you all. 

Thank you for the suggestions. This is a non denominational church. There is a leadership board of some kind, and a staff and membership list, but I doubt if there is a parish council or any similar body for this particular church. 

I'm glad that there is actually encouragement to actually do something, speak out, or to take pro-active steps of some kind. I've been advised elsewhere that the situation is hopeless! Amazing, they of so little faith!

I will investigate a bit further. There are definitely some funny things going on in this church. As I said before, the lack of concern on the part of the congregation troubled and puzzled me, but the video below clarifies things in a rather succinct manner. I'm not sure how to embed, so I just include the link.

There are "pastors" who are addicted to crack, painkillers, engaging in infidelity, threatening and bribing their congregations, and yet, their congregations do nothing. No one protests. One of the most corrupt churches ever exposed still has a congregation of well over 8,000 people even after massive corruption was exposed inside of the church!

People can be very, very stupid, gullible and seem largely indifferent to hypocrisy and immorality, even within church!!!!

The church is very large, well, very large by our standards. The pastors stay up at the front of the stage at the end of service, the congregation exits in the opposite direction. I suppose the congregation is too large for the pastor to walk to the exits to greet church members. Actually, we are only attendees. The actual number of members is very limited and has to be vetted (not sure what the actual process entails). 

So really we're just spectators. Kind of like a large herd of cows to be managed (and milked?). 

This church has actually attempted to expand with three new services: a Spanish language service, a service in a neighboring town, and a third on Saturday evening. All closed due to a lack of attendence. It is now back to it's three main Sunday service: two morning, one evening. 

The evening church I attend also has plans for expansion, but has a much smaller congregation and far less aggressive in fundraising. The pastor is ok. He follows scripture but is a bit dull and formulaic in his sermons. He tries to touch upon current events, but not in a way which would be controversial. 

I enjoy attending church, even the heretical larger church. This church for the most part follows scripture closely. For the most part. The prosperity theology and aggressive requests for donations is troubling however. 

I've been attending this church consistently for the past 4 years, since 2015. It's a large church but the pastor is the best in the local area, by far. 

Sadly, as the church has grown more successful with a larger congregation and with the ability to meet multiple high dollar target fund drives in the past year alone, the pastor has grown more ambitious still. 

The pastor is now preaching a variant of prosperity theology in a way which is clearly non doctrinaire. In essence, the pastor is more or less guaranteeing financial prosperity very specifically in exchange for donations to the church. The pastor also states that the congregation should give until it is actually painful or detrimental to your own welfare. I wish I was making this up.

I haven't heard a peep from anyone in the congregation complaining or even raising concerns about these wildly non orthodox teachings. As long as there is free coffee and a croissant and day care, no one seems to mind. 

This is very upsetting to me as I've yet to hear this pastor speak in a manner which was in any way outside of the bounds of the teachings of scripture. 

I have/had a plan b, which was to attend an evening service with a different church. This church has a far less aggressive approach with regards to fundraising, but then again, they are a significantly smaller church which cannot offer as much to the community. It saddens me that a church which steps outside of doctrine has so much more worldly success than others. 

I've attended many other local churches and regrettably the pastors are not as competent as I would hope. I enjoy attending church but wonder what heresy will follow next. 

I've scoffed at many new age pastors in recent years who teach this type of mumbo jumbo: Paula white and the Osteens in particular, but large church scammers have been a thing since the early 80's at least. I've long been drawn to Christ but it's often embarrassing sharing my faith since these televangelist scammers are the first to come to mind for most people. 

I didn't really think it was possible for my local church and pastor to become corrupted in this way. I'm saddened and angered.