Amigo42

5 minutes ago, Not me said:

I believe that would contradict scripture where it says, ‘and he became a living soul’…. To me that means that before, he had no soul as was not living…. 

My thinks…

Be blessed in Him, a fellow believer, Not me 

 

 

 

That is a good point, but that only applied to the original human.  I'm just speculating here, but imagine, you are a being who has lived already for millenia on unfallen and perfect worlds and maybe  you want a challenge and decide to come to planet earth as a human.  To fully experience the difference between other worlds and this one, would require one be born as a baby and have to learn everything from scratch.  Any foreknowledge could not be used as that would invalidate the test and experience.  I don't know.  Only God and his angels know the truth.

23 hours ago, Hopefully said:

“Peter said to them, “Change your hearts and lives and be baptized, each one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ. Then God will forgive your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:38‬ 

“But John tried to stop him. John said, “Why do you come to me to be baptized? I should be baptized by you!” Jesus answered, “Let it be this way for now. We should do whatever God says is right.” Then John agreed. So Jesus was baptized. As soon as he came up out of the water, the sky opened, and he saw God’s Spirit coming down on him like a dove.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭3:14-16‬ ‭ERV‬‬

I believe the answer is yes because I did not receive the Holy Spirit until after I was baptized and years later at that.

Some people believe baptism is not necessary, but the verses above do not sound optional. 
 

If Jesus said get baptized and was even baptized himself why would anyone tell people to do the opposite?

Why did the Spirit ascend on Jesus only after he was baptized?

 

 

Water baptism is just an outward symbol of the inward change.  The most important change is baptism of the spirit on the inside.  That's where the Holy Spirit changes us.  The water baptism comes after that and is just a statement of the internal change that has already occurred.

Sometimes some passages are taken too literally and out of context.  Don't forget, above all God gave us all common sense, and if it's doesn't feel right or seem right, it's probably not right.  

19 hours ago, missmuffet said:

It is only a saying because our soul doesn't age but the meaning of the saying is:

It means to have wisdom beyond your years. 

Sure, yes that's part of what the irony could be.  What if the truth is actually beyond that?  What if we truly our old souls meaning that our souls already preexisted for maybe thousands of year prior to coming to this planet?  The Bible kind of hints at that but doesn't say directly.  Of course, some mysteries we may not know in this life.  Just an interesting thought.

In Christianity, this idea isn't focused upon in much detail, but what if all of us truly are old souls?  Let me explain.  Jesus had existed already prior to his incarnation as a human.  How do we know it wasn't the same for all of us? 

Follow my line of thinking here.  Imagine you are an eternal being or soul that has lived for thousands or millions of years.  You've maybe only seen perfect worlds, and maybe you wanted a challenge.  So you choose to incarnate in the toughest, most baddest planet in the universe, earth.  People who make it through this life are greeted as war heroes when they return home to God.

I think when people get to a conversation related to Biblical and spiritual truths, it's important to understand that the Bible while inspired by God is still written by man.  The Bible is a collection of books written by different people with different perspectives, however which resonate.

People should understand from the get go that only God is perfect.  We can't worship the Bible as perfect because it was not written by God directly.  The Bible is a mix of lessons, parables, allegories, history, and prophecy.

The concept of hell is greatly misunderstood and influenced by Greek mythology and hellenistic influences.  Sometimes Jesus spoke in parables and may have used terms or language that people already understood at that time.  It doesn't mean that everything was literal.

I think that people can get a lot from listening to near death experiences of people who have nearly crossed over but were brought back.  While, we can't put too much trust in these anecdotal experiences, overall, they tell a very interesting story.  Nearly all describe a God of overflowing love similar to how Jesus described God.  These people also inform that there is no hell in the literal sense but that all souls essentially return back to God.

I know for most Christians that doesn't sound like what they've learned growing up including myself, but I believe that the true nature of God might surprise people.  In the human form, everyone is subject to the influences of darkness and corruption in this world.  Would God really punish people for being put in an environment where they have placed in a circumstance of disadvantage.  It's like starting a tennis match and already starting off down one set.  God will be more merciful than we think.  He is good and he is just.  

16 minutes ago, Rick_Parker said:

The Government won’t tell us the truth, the real numbers.

Well, nurses and doctors are very frustrated especially in more red States where nearly ALL the deaths are from the unvaccinated.  This isn't even the government here.

2 hours ago, ladypeartree said:

It is not soething that can be forced and as I am retred I do not need to listen to anyone or risk a job I would however lose a job rather than have it thank you One of my daughters had it after being threatened with losing her job and spent 19 hours in intensive care after a bad reaction to it and all the compamies producing these jabs are immune from prosecution no matter what  damage they find in later years  has been caused by them or even by the failies of those that havebeen killed by them now

So how many people died due to being unvaccinated vs from the vaccination?

@Josheb You make a very good point in your discussion of Jesus using language of the Pagans but not necessarily confirming a pagan view of judgment.  That's the key that so many Christians get wrong when trying to interpret the Bible from a completely literally standpoint.  Sometimes language is used to convey a meaning beyond what the words themselves actually appear to say especially when talking about etymology from a Jewish perspective.  No, there is no eternal suffering for any sinner.  There's no amount of sin a person can commit to be worthy of not millions, not billions, but eternity in suffering for a short life of sin in this world.  It just doesn't make sense, isn't Biblical, and Christians really need to stop teaching these lies and corrupted doctrines.

Maybe we can all just say that we truly don't know.  There are so many mysteries that we simply will never be privy too in this life and in this world in our current state.  The rest is pure speculation.  Did an almighty create make us?  Yes?  Was a literal six days? Was there another creation event prior to mankind.  Was the earth already formed prior to creation?  I don't know.  Questions that really don't impact the Gospel message either way.  God knows the truth, and one day all may know it, but for now no need to strain our brains to find answers we may never have in this life.

On 10/6/2021 at 12:41 PM, Arrabon said:

 

@Amigo42

For me this is like you said in your post I quoted, HERETICAL thinking. You said it.

Not that your a heretic, but your posted thoughts open the door for some to believe there are other ways to honor God and get to heaven, than God's very "NARROW" thinking, Matthew 7:14, "14But small is the gate and"NARROW" the way that leads to life, and only a few find it."

As far as being saved by His blood, or any other way we choose to believe to be saved, it is certainly by a choice, as are all the other parts of our faith, and none of it happens without us knowing it.

We live in a real world of choices being made by the minute, so I stand against your reasoning, and I stand against the entire post, and wish whole heartedly that you hadn't been capable of thinking like this. I know your a good brother, so I am a bit shocked.

We have our marching orders from God Himself in

Matthew 28:19-20, "19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you.

I will be praying for you my brother.

Arrabon

So what of unborn children and those who have mental disabilities?

On 9/28/2021 at 12:13 PM, Andriya said:

The verse Jesus refers to is Psalms 82:6, and Psalms 82:1 goes with this, too: "God presides in the divine assembly; He renders judgment among the gods".

Ah... The divine council of gods.  There's a lot of context there that most Christians including myself didn't realize till recently.  The ancient writings of Ugarit provide a lot context here.  The ancient Israelites we're immersed in and around cross cultural influences of other Near East nations.  So, in a few Biblical writings you will see this.  This may be one of those.  It could also be referring to angels in the Biblical context.

On 9/27/2021 at 11:01 PM, johnthebaptist said:

I would compare Joe Biden to one of Israel's evil kings, found in the Old Testament.

Just curious what has Biden done to call "evil?"  If you consider Biden evil, how do you classify Trump who...uh... let's see was a liar, tax cheat, tried to destroy America, cheated on all of his wives, groped 20+ women, and who knows what else?  You can take the definitions of Trump's character and find an equivalent person with those attributes in the Bible called the devil.  You don't have to look to far to see that in the scriptures.  

3 minutes ago, Josheb said:

I think there's a red herring here that perhaps isn't recognized. It is not you or me that claims exclusivity; it is Jesus. Jesus, not Josh, said he's the only way. All the "great religions" have some guy (or gal) who made claims of exclusivity. They cannot all be correct. When it comes to exclusivity, only one of them can be correct; all others must be false. So either Jesus is true and correct or he is not. If he and he alone is the way the John 3:17-19 is true, not just John 14:6. If Mohammed or Buddha or Siddharta or David Koresh is the way then Jesus is not the way. 

I agree with you that they all cannot be correct.  That is not logical.  There is universal truth.  I'm just saying within that universal truth, how do we truly know all that God has planned.  I don't really know.  Jesus is indeed the only way, but again, what if it's possible for people to be saved by his blood even if they don't realize it?  How about unborn babies who never had the opportunity to learn about Jesus?  This is what I mean.  There are areas that I think we may not fully understand in this life.  

1 hour ago, Josheb said:

 

The op contains its own irony. The op asks about the salvation of "others". The reality Christians will be in heaven is redundant; it is tautological. Christians will be in heaven. Will non-Christians be in heaven? Normally the answer would be an immediate and unequivocal, "NO!" but the simple presuppositional fact of this very discussion is that the vast majority of us were previously non-Jewish outsiders to Christianity, outsiders to knowing Jesus salvifically, and we came from other theological perspectives. I was raised in  the Episcopal Church but as an adult I was a practicing Buddhist before coming to Christ salvifically. 

 

So, almost every group believes that "only" members of their group will experience the afterlife in heaven.  Muslims think that they'll be the only ones, Christians think that they'll be the only ones, and even within Christianity certain sects or denominations think that they'll be the only ones.  So, what I'm trying to say is, what if we're all wrong.  What if God has a glorious plan that we don't fully understand.  I mean, what do we really know besides what we're told.  Sometimes we only see the surface not beneath the surface.  It's just difficult to think that all people who have lived otherwise righteous lives will be doomed for "everlasting" fire for a truth they haven't even learned.  How about unborn babies?  They are innocent and did not have the chance to hear the word of Jesus.  Aren't people who live in the jungles innocent like them in the sense that they can't be held accountable for something they've never learned.  I'll be honest, I don't know the answers to these questions.  Maybe we'll never know in this life.  I just believe there is more to it that we think.

The more I learn about the historic and cultural context in which the Bible was written, the more I realize that we really don't know as much as we think.

What if people will be in heaven who we thought would not be like some Muslims, Buddhists, and Hindus?  This might seem heretical, but what if people are saved by the blood even if they don't realize it.  There are people who live righteous lives up to the knowledge they have.  Yes, Jesus is the only way.  However, the patriarchs did not know Jesus such as Moses, David, etc. Yet, these people are saved.  This is food for thought.

 Ah this is too much confusion.  I'll let Yahweh sort it all out in the end.  The more I learn the more I realize how much I don't know in terms of the writing of the Bible and the culture of the Near East at that time.

What if the answer is somewhere in between.  In general, I believe the creation account is true because we're all here obviously.  However, I don't think it's as important to focus on a literal reading for on of the creation account.  People can get caught up on the weeds.  What's important is that we were created by God.

36 minutes ago, Justin Adams said:

Much of the older writings in the scripture are polemics and poke fun at other deities. They may even hijack some texts and put YHWH in place of the Baal deity or whatever. It is quite obvious to Christian scholars what was going on. Even one of the psalms mimics the Baal cycle in certain places. The ungodly purveyors of misinformation are to be expected and suitably ignored for their literary ignorance.

I agree with your point exactly, and to me that is logical vs Hebrew scribes just repeating pagan theological points.  I'd like to add for all we know in some cases, it could be the opposite that the pagans borrowed from the Hebrews.  Nonetheless, if that is true that the Hebrew scribes were mocking the pagans, then what does it say about certain passages that appear prophetic in nature?  Can the respective passages in Hebrew be true prophecies if they are just designed to mock the pagans, or did God just to honor them as prophecies regardless of how they came about?  This is a puzzling question.  Either way God is sovreign and in control.  I think that even as Christians there is so much that we grew up learning and thinking were literal that may have been simply literary devices.  This doesn't detract from the truth of God's existence and his Son's existence.  It's just something that I think most Christians will usually just gloss over.  However, the truth will set us free.  God is good.

I'm a Christian who loves the Lord, but I also like to be informed.  Does anyone have any good arguments to rebuff critics who claim that some texts or motifs from the book of Daniel were influenced by Ugartic texts.  To me, this is not too significant especially considering that the Canaanites and Hebrews were a Semitic people group who interacted and had vocabulary and language that was very similar. Now, it's possible that the Hebrew influenced the other, but scholars claim the Ugartic text is older, but of course it was written on stone.  We don't know for certain which is older.  It's speculation.  

I used to think that Ron Wyatt made some amazing finds.  I then did research and realized that he may have been sincere, but I believe he made himself believe things that weren't there.  I think he began to think of himself as a great adventurer.  It appears that he may have made up or exaggerated his findings. I do believe he did come across some legit discoveries.  I just think it's interesting that for some of his claims he produced no evidence when the time came.

Anyone know why there keep being problems with posting on the site?  I thought it was fixed.

test

I'm not sure about some of you, but in recent years I started keeping track of the ways God has moved in my life.  I started writing them out, and we trust God not out of blind faith but because He has proven himself over and over in our daily lives.  When God has come through for us in the past in whatever way we needed him, we can have confidence that He'll be there for us in the future.

Sometimes we can ignore or simply miss the multitude of ways God speaks and moves in our lives.  We may pass it off and coincidence or nothing, but when you have a million "coincidence s" it starts to look like a higher power is trying to show us something.  So, I encourage you all to keep track by writing all of the ways God has come through for you even small things and circumstances.  God speaks through the simple and mundane areas of life ALL the time.  You won't always hear a voice of thunder through the clouds, but the multitude of ostensibly small things can be significant when the Creator of the universe speaks.

3 hours ago, David1701 said:

Why not just rip up your Bible and use it as kindling?  You might as well, if that is your attitude (the parts of your post I've made bold).

God expects us to have balance in our lives.  Most Christians today don't even honor one of God's 10 commandments to keep the Sabbath instead finding every excuse in the book.  That's overt sin, but it gets swept under the theological rug. Divorce and remarriage in contrast are vague areas not clearly outlined so wisdom from God must come into play.

11 hours ago, other one said:

I'm just quoting a friend....   now that I think about it, I would not know him if he was over in Africa running around with a bone in his nose, so it's kind of hard for me not to think his ancestors did us both a favor.  It is really sad it happened that way, but it is what it is.

Let us not confuse Racism with Slavery.  They are two separate things/issues.  The Bible does not condemn slavery, but it does racism.   There is no rational excuse or defense for racism in the USA, period.

While you can't control what individual people think about each other, one can make rules about how they might act on those thoughts.    Rules have been made since the 60s and the systemic racism has come a long way toward extinction. 

I see talk of racism today mostly as a political tool to divide and conquer our government system.   And it seems to be working to a point.   It's also going to set back 50 years of progress if it's not stopped fairly soon.

 

I would say that slavery and racism go hand-in-hand.  If one believes other groups are inferior to them or even subhuman as some European colonists believed, then it allowed them to treat the Africans no better than ox or cattle.