dad2

Maybe give a few arguments in your own words and we'll see who does not understand what

I agree. But the old agers might say that even if Adam was created 6000 years ago that is like yesterday and there were animals and etc already here. So their deep time foundational arguments must be decimated and destroyed.

Been there done that got the tee shirt. Their arguments have the very same flaw radioactive dating does. That fatal flaw is that they too assume that the current laws of physics have to explain it all.

I agree. Yet those flaws alone do not make a good argument for the broad range of samples that are dated.Some dates even correspond with tree rings. So I accept that the patterns of isotope ratios do act as a clock back to a certain point in time. That time, as I mentioned was the time of the tower of Babel, after the flood.

Because the world in the bible record was different after it was created. Men lived 1000 years almost. Trees grew in weeks. From all the changes in created kinds we see in the fossil record we can deduce that adapting happened very fast. When do we know lifespans changed rapidly? The best point to pinpoint it is (not at the flood year) at the time of Babel, when another great change happened...the minds of people on earth were no longer able to process speech the same. One other change at the time of Babel that I deduce is that spirit beings no longer had the same access to the physical world as they used to. Two examples of this is that we no longer see angels marrying women on earth, and also, that it seems likely that a spirit being level at the time of Babel used to exist somewhere up in the sky. That would explain why they thought they could build up to it, and why that now seems ridiculous. The OP stated that this thread was separate from cosmological issues. I can easily deal with those, but this thread is to focus on earth. As to why the oil industry is successful, it discovered the patterns of layers and which ones tended to have the deposits they want! The reasons they think the layers came to exist and the time when they did is another matter altogether. They cannot defend that.

Radioactive dating techniques depend on the forces and laws we see today having also existed in the past. Unless these forces did exist as we see them today, all dates have no meaning. There is no way to know this. There is another problem with deep space distances and time. But this thread is to discuss radioactive dating on earth. Unless you can prove that the laws were the same, then we can use young earth dates and still match all the patterns of isotopes we see in the rocks. We simply lose assumptions such as that all daughter isotopes (isotopes known to NOW form by decay) came to exist because of radioactive decay. (as we see them now coming to exist by this process) In short, ONLY as long as this present nature/forces and laws existed is radioactive decay based dating valid. If our nature, say, started to exist somewhere around the time of Noah, then no date derived from radioactive decay methods is good before that point.

All left alive at the time. The remnant

All left alive are saved.

Ah, that is where we see it differently. I thought only believers fled. What reason is there to think that the whole nation of Israel is saved before the tribulation is over? You think the entire nation suddenly drops everything and not even return to their houses to get clothes and become refugees who leave Israel?

Says...who? Not in the sense in prophesy. For example in Daniel it says 'the people that do know their God shall be strong and do exploits' That does not mean people who read about God in the morning paper. It could give us a glimpse of things to come. In this case they cut the wires rather than knocked walls down I think. If the Eze invasion happens near the end of the tribulation, it may not be possible for Jews around the world to do much of anything.

Long post. Maybe do a short one on topic and clear. Tks

Ezekiel 37:23 Neither shall they defile themselves any more with their idols, nor with their detestable things, nor with any of their transgressions: but I will save them out of all their dwellingplaces, wherein they have sinned, and will cleanse them: so shall they be my people, and I will be their God. Ezekiel 37:24 And David my servant shall be king over them; and they all shall have one shepherd: they shall also walk in my judgments, and observe my statutes, and do them. There is only one time this happens. So we have a timeline.

Me too

Great. Another poster here has been saying they were for days now Your speculation remains just that, speculation OK so your position is that the Eze invasion prophesy is before the seven years start. Not an uncommon position. As the OP here says "Ezekiel 39:22 So the house of Israel shall know that I am the Lord their God from that day and forward. To place the invasion before the time all Israel gets saved in the end when they see Him whom they pierced and repent would mean we have the verse above fulfilled before the nation is saved" Speculation. As pointed out it doesn't fit either. The prophesy is set in the time near His return and when Israel is saved and He is their God. You think that applies now? I am pointing out that it is set at a time near the end of the tribulation when Israel is not saved and therefore able to be attacked. Still the time of Jacob's trouble. Otherwise God would not allow anyone to touch them. Yet it is near the time He returns and they are saved Nope. As the OP here says Ezekiel 39:22 So the house of Israel shall know that I am the Lord their God from that day and forward. They are not saved now or before the tribulation. They do not know Jesus. Speculation Try ferrying a billion man army oover a body of water sometime. Then try it in the tribulation when we don't know what changes will happen that affects technology I used to jump to that conclusion as well. But what if it is a predecessor or first stage of it? Who knows? Many prophesies do talk about horseback actually. Who are you to say it 'really' means tanks or cars?? Say what? The armies of Armageddon were in hiding?

Yes all gets burned after the 1000 years. That is not the topic here, Focus

No. A pattern of bible prophesy is to go back and flesh out more details. It does not mean that all that happens in the prophesy in the previous chapter takes place before all that is mentioned in the prophesy of another chapter. Additionally Jesus/David is ruling before the final battle of gog after the millennium. You don't get to assume that there is only on event involving gog and adjust all scripture accordingly. I already showed as mentioned a few times now that it is impossible for the Eze invasion to occur after Jesus returns. I outlined many verses and reasons such as how they still all have swords in the Eze invasion. You are not listening. So why preach a doctrine here when it is off topic? The topic is not whether some think there is only one event involving gog in prophesy. The topic, once again it when the invasion of Israel in Eze happens in relation to the last seven years and Rapture. You have shown you are not capable of discussing this because you insist on saying the invasion happens long after the timeframe being debated in this thread. You were told your opinion was noted. Since you have nothing to add to the topic here, thanks for your input. No need to flog your pet theories here any more. Not interested in the slightest.

That does not sound like the fire at the end of the millennium. A new heaven and earth comes right after that fire. In Eze they are still burying dead etc etc etc. Neither is the end of the 1000 years the time when 'God sets his king over them forever' Jesus is already ruling then and doesn't need to be set up.

What verse in eze 37 says fire comes down?

If you have more than an honest educated guess let us know. That is the point of the discussion. After all, as I mentioned a common teaching has been that this battle likely kicks off the last seven years and is roughly simultaneous with the Rapture. That is what I assumed was probably right as I also mentioned. The thread here looks at Scriptural reasons why that actually doesn't seem to be the case, and people were invited to support it if they could. Nothing about all this fits your little accusation of guessing something already stated in the bible. I don't really need any wow factors, thanks. Just a reasoned topical reply. Rather than a drum role why not state briefly what the double aspect of the Eze prophesy is in your opinion? So the question is when is that day? Simply state your opinion. Also tie it in to the topic somehow of the Eze prophesy. There is no question a prophesy can jump far into the future. However, in the case of Zec you bring up, let's look at that. Zechariah 13:1 In that day there shall be a fountain opened to the house of David and to the inhabitants of Jerusalem for sin and for uncleanness. Zechariah 13:2 And it shall come to pass in that day, saith the Lord of hosts, that I will cut off the names of the idols out of the land, and they shall no more be remembered: and also I will cause the prophets and the unclean spirit to pass out of the land. So the context of the prophesy is all future. Not sure where you though it jumped. That was not history. Also in what way are you addressing the timing of the invasion of Eze here? I don't see this as not being real. Sorry. Your speculation about modern armies and what you think they need is noted. I could speculate as well. In the tribulation near the end, where I think the invasion of Eze must likely occur, it is possible that for whatever reason, many modern weapons might not work. One example in the present time that gives us an idea of this is an emp burst. Modern guns and vehicles and planes require an electric charge to function for the most part. How could a huge army cross a big river on foot or horseback? I am not saying it has to be an emp event, but in that time there could be something that renders a similar effect for all we know. There are probably other scenarios as well that would mean that a river drying up suddenly would facilitate an army. So there is ZERO need to accept your personal speculation that renders a prophesy to be just some non literal 'metaphor'. There is no reason from the bible itself to do so.

It is called a battle. As I mentioned a few times, it is more of a swift judgment from God on some rebels. Unlike the invasion of Eze (which is the point)

The Gog God talks to in Eze is as I demonstrated with many verses not in the millennium. There is another 'battle' ( more of a rebellion and quick slaughter by God) after the 1000 years. Not interested in debating what seems like the obvious to me. You have expressed an opinion that the timing of the battle is nowhere near the time of the Great Tribulation that sees Jesus return immediately after that tribulation of those days. Nothing more to discuss there. So far no one has offered any reasons to assume that the invasion of Israel of the tribulation era happens before the tribulation. Interesting. So many preachers say that it does.

I understand you have a set of beliefs to promote, however, it is probably best to focus on the timing of that pesky ol invasion of Eze 38 aqnd 39 tks That is separate event from the one at the end of the 1000 years, yes they both occur. However it is not right to say it is only one event and at the end of the millennium.

The thread, once again is for those who understand that the Eze invasion is before Jesus returns. NOT for some who are confused with another event at the end of the thousand years. Thanks

Let's be honest, I deleted that post when realizing the context, and posted this instead. "We know. Try to understand that most people think of the tribulation as the time immediately before Jesus returns " Better to deal with reality in a truthful way

So spirit people who live forever are attacked by some evil guy during the reign of Jesus, you claim. OK. Moving on..