dad2

So who does Israel belong to now, Peru?

Interesting statements, albeit unconnected from Scripture or reason

It says north. Look at a map. Damascus may get nuked, but that doesn't mean there will be no Syria

So the trib saints then. What about them?

The AntiChrist and the ten kings/toes of his kingdom

There are lots of saints. There are the saved believers or church. There is the saved Jews that will be saved in the time of Jabcob's trouble. There are the millennium saints, saved in the 1000 years. There are the tribulation saints saved in the tribulation. There are the saints of the old testament. So which ones are you talking about?

They do come through the north which means Syria. Someone does. So don't claim that there are no unwalled villages.

Whatever some nations think is an option may not actually be as things turn out. The bible does not indicate that either the world or the middle east is destroyed in the tribulation. I am not sure why you call invading forces from the north an ally. And finally the ten horns rule with the AntiChrist and there is no indication they are of the religion of Islam. In fact the AC demands worship of himself and his idol. You are not going to have your 10 kings helping you rule the world being Muslim with actions like that.

What saints? How does that relate to the topic, or what we were talking about the last few posts?

You said this "After the ten Islamic countries have defeated the Israeli government armies protecting it and is killing all the Jews.." You did not specify their leader was not. Regarding the world being destroyed you said this "The abomination off desolation is not used by the armed forces of the north untill after Jerusalem has been attacked and overcome by its enemies. The reason why there is not a full blown worldwide nuclear war is because it's the armed forces of the king of the north that destroys the middle east.The king of the north is going to destroy the world and doesn't want to. Unless your English is poor that is exactly what you said. What was promised to Abraham is only given after Israel is saved. Not today.

How would it be worth mentioning that someone specifically goes after the unwalled villages if there were no walls somewhere?

The bible says when we see that abomination there is so much time left. It says nothing about when certain forces start 'using' the abomination. Nowhere did I read that the entire middle east is destroyed. We return to the mount of Olive area and do stuff from there. It can't be all destroyed. Then you go on to say the whole world is destroyed by someone. Totally made up. Who says the king of the north is 'islamic'?

Answer the question, are ALL villages in Israel walled or not? In case you don't know, the answer is no. Therefore unwalled villages can be attacked. (thus neutering your point totally)

Who said a verse in Daniel you randomly picked spoke of an invasion somewhere? This world is heading for a nuclear war. More and more countries have nuclear arsenals and threaten to use them. Looking at the bible it seems clear that God will not allow a full nuclear was on earth. Now for part of the tribulation when a third of the trees are burned rather than all of them, etc, one could argue that a nuclear war of limited scope does happen. So how does God stop a worldwide end or almost end of life by nuclear war? There will still be wars in the tribulation period. How come nations will not use the bombs they have for a real full nuclear war? Probably not because they are too nice. One possibility is that the new nature on earth comes. (changed by God). In such a case, atomic realities would not be the same and probably nukes and many other weapons would be useless and no longer function. Lifespans would also be part of how the new nature (as shown in the millennium) so when we see people running around in the very end trying to kill themselves, but can't do so, that could be connected. I suspect that if our bodies repair themselves so well and repel sickness so well in the new nature, it would be much harder to kill ourselves. (men beg mountains to fall on them) here again the possibility that physics are different even in the latter part of the tribulation becomes a reasonable and possible fit. Looking around, I have never seen a bottomless pit. No one really knows what that is or where. Whatever it is or is not, one thing it is will be a conduit for spirits below the earth to come to the surface! In the world before Noah, again we see that spirits were on earth openly visible among men. Some married women here. The world has not been like that in all of history since then. Yet we know in the future it will be again! So once again, this could be due to the nature and laws of earth being changed again. Then as mentioned there is the issue of the sun going dark *without killing life on the planet) and the universe going dark (partially at first) Once again, a fundamental change in physics would explain such things better than some cloud over Boston or someplace! Then there is the matter of land masses all over the planet, on a continental scale suddenly moving around! Under the physics of today that would be a lot of heat from friction and probably a threat to life on earth (if even possible at all under our nature)

Or could it be villages that don't yet have walls? Who is to say?

When Good restores them to that land here is what will happen. Ezekiel 37:13 And ye shall know that I am the Lord , when I have opened your graves, O my people, and brought you up out of your graves, Ezekiel 37:14 And shall put my spirit in you, and ye shall live, and I shall place you in your own land: then shall ye know that I the Lord have spoken it, and performed it, saith the Lord . I would say that did not happen. Ezekiel 37:23 Neither shall they defile themselves any more with their idols, nor with their detestable things, nor with any of their transgressions: but I will save them out of all their dwellingplaces, wherein they have sinned, and will cleanse them: so shall they be my people, and I will be their God. Ezekiel 37:24 And David my servant shall be king over them; and they all shall have one shepherd: they shall also walk in my judgments, and observe my statutes, and do them. None of those things happened in 1948. Far from it.

Says who? Most of Israel in the trib is dead period. Only a remnant are saved in the end. Now you are building on a fallacy you just created. Check the premise. So who do you think that king from the north will come to invade? There is a clue right in the verse. The mountains of Israel. Eze 38 says nothing of a chosen people. Ezekiel 38:20 So that the fishes of the sea, and the fowls of the heaven, and the beasts of the field, and all creeping things that creep upon the earth, and all the men that are upon the face of the earth, shall shake at my presence, and the mountains shall be thrown down, and the steep places shall fall, and every wall shall fall to the ground. These events show what time it is talking about. The latter days tribulation. Not a time after the 1000 years. Ezekiel 38:5 Persia, Ethiopia, and Libya with them; all of them with shield and helmet: Ezekiel 38:6 Gomer, and all his bands; the house of Togarmah of the north quarters, and all his bands: and many people with thee. All these countries will be involved. If your interpretation were correct, you need all those countries still around at the end of the 1000 years. We can have different opinions on that. All? All Israel? Every village and town? No. Looks like there are plenty of unwalled villages one could attack.

Are they raised before that war? Future from thousands of years ago. Not future to the latter days.

In that chapter we see this 13 And ye shall know that I am the Lord, when I have opened your graves, O my people, and brought you up out of your graves, 14 And shall put my spirit in you, and ye shall live, and I shall place you in your own land: then shall ye know that I the Lord have spoken it, and performed it, saith the Lord. The problem is that means they are saved. So that does need to be in the future. So when? Ezekiel 38:17 Thus saith the Lord God ; Art thou he of whom I have spoken in old time by my servants the prophets of Israel, which prophesied in those days many years that I would bring thee against them? This refers to the final leader spoken about in many places. (unless you claim it is someone else, then you better show where someone else was much prophesied about for the latter days) That pinpoints the time. Another confirmation of the timing is something bible students would recognize right away. The time of great shaking which is also in that tribulation time.

If you are referring to Eze then yes. My guess is that Jesus returns in the air to rescue us somewhere around that time. That is not the battle where Iran and Turkey etc try to invade Israel in Eze. Sorry if you thought there was only one battle one time.

No that was an exercise in taking a verse totally out of context and time and grossly misunderstanding it. When Israel is invaded is likely around the time of the Rapture (that you don't believe in) and just before or at the start of the last several years of history (which I am not sure you believe in either?) So that is way before the islands and mountains all move (which you say you don't believe either) etc etc

Obviously some laws had to be in place. Which ones are the question! There will be laws in the earth in the 1000 year reign of Christ also, and in heaven. That does not mean nature never changes if He sees a need for it to change. You base that claim that God cannot violate earth physics on what? A dream? A hunch? Do explain. With God, actually, nothing is impossible. Fair enough. But you might also say that every little crop and blade of grass that will grow fast (as cited in the previous post from Amos, will require some special intervention and special miracle! So will each person living on earth then because they live 1000 years or so! Etc. Likewise, before the flood, trillions of little angels or whatever would have been needed to change the former world that was the same in most ways! I see no reason why that makes any sense whatsoever. Better to think of physics and nature as tweakable by God. Once the nature is changed, all things such as people living a certain lifespan etc adjust to the laws in place. Any state of physical laws and nature has perimeters obviously. That does not mean they are the same. All things change. (except God). From the record of the future and the past on earth He gave us, it did change and will change again. On that we agree! It makes sense that the animals and man had already walked or moved to various places on earth before the continents separated. OK, that is another matter. But before the flood we also saw gods walking and marrying on earth! So if spirits again can walk and be here on earth with men and visible etc, that could be evidence that the nature has changed again.

Let's do the experiment then. Have a tractor seed a field with, let's say, corn. Then have a crew follow it, harvesting the corn and having to slow down lest they pass the tractor planting it! Amos 9:13 “Behold, days are coming,” declares the LORD, “When the plowman will overtake the reaper and the treader of grapes him who sows seed; when the mountains will drip sweet wine and all the hills will be dissolved. By the way all the high mountains will be made low, so the earth will have more room for crops as well. Let me guess, you don't really believe that any more than the islands will move?

I was trying to swat all your off topic pet doctrines like whack a mole, and the topic came up. Nothing to discuss though, since you do not even believe there so much as is one. Get on topic or don't bother posting.

OK, thanks for clearing that up (whatever you are talking about) Great, so what do you think what you posted means? Something about the great tribulation? In this thread we are looking at what nature itself on earth will be like in that time, not whether that time will exist or not, in case you missed that. A few posts ago you claim the bible says nothing about what most call the rapture. Earlier, you denied that islands and mountains will actually move. Anything else to add here?