dad2

The posts are too long. I'll reply to one item here. There is no 'gap' between kingdoms. There is different material that the image is composed of representing the different kingdoms. Rome is the legs of Iron. That is not a time thing. It is a kingdom thing. Notice the feet are different than the legs? The legs are done and gone. When we get to the feet that will be iron and clay. It also has ten kingdoms. The old Rome had nothing like that. The ten kings are not yet here. Neither is the final king revealed yet. So you don't get to try and insert thousands of years into the prophesy simply because there is iron in the toes. Of course there is, since it is the revived modern Roman Empire! Nothing to do with weeks or months or years or days. There is no Roman Empire today. There is no final king today. There is no ten kingdoms ruling today. Now if China and the US (or whatever) blow up half the world and the only major kingdoms left, or the major remaining kingdoms was the European countries that used to be part of the old Roman empire, well then we might see a revived Roman empire. Stop looking for it before it gets here (however it might end up getting here we have no idea)

The final kingdom is a revived Roman empire. Nothing to do with when the old Rome was here in any way that regards time. No. Rome fell apart and stopped existing as an empire. When God allows it to revive, that is ages and ages after Rome ceased to exist as a power. It is then that that last seven years happens. They end when Jesus clobbers them after returning to earth. It is also after that that He restores a repentant Israel. No one. The final world leader will head that empire. It has not arose yet. Dan 2 is a sequence of empires and there is no mention of time. Once that final leader defiles the holy place then there is a lot of mention of time. The toes are not even here yet. They are the final ten kingdoms that rule with the AntiChrist. If you notice he has not been revealed yet. The revived Roman Empire headed by the AC. Not the old one. Dan 7:25 is talking about the AC. He rules the revived final Roman Empire. He does so for only 7 years. Only after the repent in the end. Not yet. Jesus will have returned. Who do you think will take Jerusalem from Him! No possibility. -- No. There is plenty of life left when He returns. How else could He rule the nations and judge the nations? Only after 1000 years will the earth be burned up and made new. Well, maybe find some help. You should be learning not teaching prophesy. He appeared to Paul. That was not a return. That was enabling Paul to see Him where He was. He never came back to earth and will not until He comes back. If you believe in Jesus and that He died and rose again and saves us if we ask, then we agree.

In Dan two we are given the kingdoms from Nebuchadnezzar, who was the head of gold (Babylon) until the end of time when Jesus returns, dashes them all to pieces like a potters vessel as one psalm puts it, and rules forever. There was no iron in gold. Nor in silver. Nor in the brass. The legs were iron. That was of course Rome. The final time (feet and toes) will see a mix. We also notice there are ten toes just as there are ten final powers in the very end. Yes, the very end involves a king that is considered a continuation of the former Roman empire. This is not a time line but a sequence of kingdoms till the end. This has nothing to do with the Tribulation length. We were given that time specifically in various places in the bible in days and months and years. That prophesy has no real relation to the OP either. When someone says Jesus has returned already we have no need to wonder if they are telling the truth or not. Where they live does not matter either.. You did say Jesus had returned correct? You also seem to indicate that you are not predominantly swayed or influenced or representative of any religion or denomination. You made it clear it was not JW. I would have expected that you admit to some sort of general association such as Messianic, Catholic, Orthodox, Born again Christian, Adventist, Methodist, or etc. Instead we see a claim of a person living in the middle of nowhere, that thinks Jesus came back already. Perhaps Josheb who seems to agree with you can be more forthcoming?

A person of what denomination or cult?

By the way answer the question as to what religion you are so we can see who believes that stuff such as that Jesus has already returned! It is still 1260 days or 42 months so it does not matter. I think you mean that you butchery every instance where the time is given in years and months and days to mean some historical period that fits your pet theory. I get it, you can make it shorter or longer as needed and all you have to do is ignore what it says clearly in several ways. Dan 2 says absolutely nothing of seven times. Period. Easy to prove false. Daniel told the king THOU art the head of this statue! Israel being restored does not involve a secular unrepentant nation. It does involve God destroying their enemies which, as we notice has not happened. By the way, the 2 witnesses did not sneak into Israel in the few decades before 1967. What were their names? What miracles did they do? What armies did they call down fire from heaven on? Etc.

So I can see where you are coming from. Total disbelief in prophesy as anything other than a bunch of fairy tales with no actual meaning in the real world. Something to be waved away. So where does that come from? Is it a denomination? JW? When I read that God will shake the heavens and earth and that all towers will fall. That will not be from some shaking in outer space! Isaiah 30:25 And there shall be upon every high mountain, and upon every high hill, rivers and streams of waters in the day of the great slaughter, when the towers fall. Isaiah 30:26 Moreover the light of the moon shall be as the light of the sun, and the light of the sun shall be sevenfold, as the light of seven days, in the day that the Lord bindeth up the breach of his people, and healeth the stroke of their wound. Nor did the breach get healed in 1967!

If so then why is that time also given to us in days and months? Using an example from Revelation we see this Revelation 13:7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations So here we have a real man. A man having power over real nations. This man and another man are mentioned. Another man who cames after the first guy. Revelation 13:13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men, That man does wonders like calling fire down. The man is not symbolic. Nor did that man live in 70AD! No it says nothing like that actually. It specifies WHEN in the next verse! Daniel 12:8 And I heard, but I understood not: then said I, O my Lord, what shall be the end of these things? Daniel 12:9 And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end. Sorry, that makes no sense. The witnesses appear in the Tribulation and are killed at the end of it. They could not have snuck in Israel in the past some time. 5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed. 6 These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will. Can you refresh our memory as to when someone called fire out of heaven and devouvered their enemies in 70AD? Ha Since He then rules and reigns with us and judges the nations how is it that you claim the world will still be in the Tribulation after He returns?! Why pick that particular trumpet as having not happened yet? Refresh our memory when an angel dried up the Euphrates? Revelation 16:12 And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared. 1260 symbolic days? 42 symbolic months? What is 1260 symbolic of? In Daniel 12:13 it tells us when the end of the days are actually. Daniel 12:13 But go thou thy way till the end be: for thou shalt rest, and stand in thy lot at the end of the days. Are you claiming Daniel no longer was dead or in his lot in 1967? Where is he, in hiding? Why is 2000 years 42 months? You made that up. There in nothing in Dan 2 that mentions 42 months or any time period. It mentioned Greece and other kingdoms. Sorry no 42 months that really mean (insert whatever you like here) Jerusalem was not restored. God will do that. When He does you will not see them attacked from their many enemies. That you invented whole of cloth. No, they did not flee after the final world leader stopped their sacrifices, and the Euphrates was not dried up and Jesus did not return and restore them, and they did not repent, and there was no 2 witnesses doing miracles, and no 144,000 Jews preaching and protected by God, and no AntiChrist, and no mark of the beast, etc etc etc etc etc etc. By the way, are you JW?

I read it and your pics were not in there.

Rev 8 mentions a star that falls to earth and poisons waters. Mat 24:19 talks of things AFTER the son of mam comes. Nothing to do with broken branches of Israel. It is actually clear by other places that talk of that time. Revelation 8:12 And the fourth angel sounded, and the third part of the sun was smitten, and the third part of the moon, and the third part of the stars; so as the third part of them was darkened, and the day shone not for a third part of it, and the night likewise. Unless you butcher the meaning of what a night is and a day, and what the context of light shining for a certain time is, what this is saying is that a day will be a third shorter, and that the lights in the sky we see at night also will be similarly affected. Maybe you think the angel was not an angel? A sound was not a sound? A third is not really a third? Ha No, it shines a third less exactly! This says nothing of the law, or speeding tickets, or your bedroom light. That is talking about specific lights in the sky both in the night and day that shine a specific amount of ti,me less than usual. You made up the broken branches thing. One third also does not mean incomplete. It means one out of three! The light shines for those that have Jesus or not! He makes the sun rise on the wicked and the just. What it is saying is that the length of daylight on earth will be different. Impossible since it clearly denotes that time as a time like no other in history or ever to come later! That time is clocked. The months and years are known. It could not have happened any time in history. In Genesis that dream was about his brothers and family and represented as stars. There is no secret there. It did not say the day would be shorter or dark. It was not talking about the end time. There are prophesies that talk of 'that day' or 'those days' and they say that it will be dark. Not just spiritually, but physically. It involves all the world actually. All nations gather, all people must receive the mark, all the world will worship the AntiChrist, all the waters turned to blood, all the world shakes etc. Matthew 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. This means the Tribulation will not just be greater than anything Israel saw, but bigger than anyone saw even before there was an Israel!

Not sure what your pics mean inside your head. Hopefully you don't think Jesus already returned or some such.

His brothers and the prophesy was literal you can say. However his brother was not literally the sun. Context. When God talks about the actual sun and moon and stars themselves and how they will all do certain things one day, that is a sign of what we will see. That is not about some pope, or beggar or anyone else. Wisdom is plain to him that understandeth actually. The spirit reveals all things. Unto us it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom. We also should know the signs of the times and what time we are in. The prophesies are more importantly to be believed. When we hear that a great shaking (talked about in many places in the bible) is going to happen in the end time, so that every island is moved away from where it was, we are not to pretend that means the pope will pass gas or something. When we see a prophesy say that all men will need a mark to buy or sell anything, that does not mean the arch Bishop's car will get a flat. When we see prophesies that a horrible abomination will one day be set up after the daily sacrifices are taken away, and there will then be only 42 months left till the end, that does not mean that it won't really happen and we can pretend that it is whatever made up events we like over a span of a few thousand years. Nor does it mean that the daily animal sacrifices are really Mickey Mouse movies. When it says a day will not shine for a third part, that means the length of a day will not be the same, it does not mean someone is mad at his cousin. Etc. Better to believe the lines we do read and be careful for the one that tries to obfuscate and cause disbelief. When Isaiah says Damascus will be destroyed in a certain end time, that does not mean if we really want to get it well, we should think he 'really' meant that that there will be a pride parade in New York. Looking at Eze, it starts like this Ezekiel 1:1 Now it came to pass in the thirtieth year, in the fourth month, in the fifth day of the month, as I was among the captives by the river of Chebar, that the heavens were opened, and I saw visions of God. That is talking about an actual day of the month in a certain time. That is talking about a certain river, and actual people that were captives. It is also talking about the actual heavens being opened and him seeing a vision from God. You can't say that because a woman had 12 stars over her head in Revelation, that this 'really' means that a woman's head was opened up or something!

When we get specific like a day will be one third less daylight, that is not talking about a person. In Joseph's case it was a dream and not in any way literal. In the case of God telling us in different places that the stars will go dark, and the sun, that is no dream. You simply can't believe it. The intended subject is the moon and stars and sun, and not people in all these prophesies.

What does 2000 years have to do with 3 1/2 times (which is explained as also being 1260 days or 42 months? Daniel 2:7 They answered again and said, Let the king tell his servants the dream, and we will shew the interpretation of it. That has nothing to do with anything we are talking about. That is a king telling his servants some things. The angel states that it will be 3 1/2 times from the captivity in Babylon until the scattering of the power of Israel I saw nothing in Dan 2 about that? Which angel? That is truly wholly made up, and total speculation. No wonder you 'forgot' to cite which verse an angel said what you claim. So now you think the two witnesses that called down fire and withheld the rain and died in the streets of Jerusalem and were raised from the dead was something that ended in 1967? Who said that all the main kingdoms of the world rising and falling involved 7 years? That is ridiculous and a strawman argument. So now you toss in 1945 for no apparent reason, and claim the witnesses were here. Not sure how we all could have missed them! NOT the great tribulation. That ends when Jesus returns to earth. It also involves a certain number of days and things that are impossible to have already happened anytime before. What chapter are you even talking about now? The bible does say in a few places how long the Tribulation is. Daniel 12:11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days. Revelation 11:2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months. Revelation 13:5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months. False. The angel there is talking about the end of the world. Daniel 12:1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. Daniel 12:2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt. Daniel 12:3 And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever. Daniel 12:4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased. Daniel 12:5 Then I Daniel looked, and, behold, there stood other two, the one on this side of the bank of the river, and the other on that side of the bank of the river. Daniel 12:6 And one said to the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, How long shall it be to the end of these wonders? Daniel 12:7 And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished. Daniel 12:8 And I heard, but I understood not: then said I, O my Lord, what shall be the end of these things? Daniel 12:9 And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end. The angel is talking about that well known time that has no parallel as Jesus mentioned, nothing in history is like the Tribulation. You can't say that it already happened! Then we see it is when people rise from the dead, did that happen in 70AD? No possible way. Then we see that when His people are scattered that is the end of all things, so it could not have been any of the times Christians or Jews were scattered in history. False. It is possible that if there is a time of great war that people may not be able to use or make modern weapons. Horses and swords will likely be used I would suspect! There is nothing in the bible that says they won't.

Your verses are out of context. Example Exodus 32:13 Remember Abraham, Isaac, and Israel, thy servants, to whom thou swarest by thine own self, and saidst unto them, I will multiply your seed as the stars of heaven. That is a clear comparison to explain a great number. That is not saying you are a star! When it talks of stars and sun going dark and the moon not shining, or a day being a third less light than normal, that is about real heavenly objects. As Jesus said, 'let Him that hears understand' Not sure why you cannot hear.

The tribulation lasts 3 1/2 years. It could not be what started in 70AD 2000 years is 3 1/2 times? There was no restoration because that comes after they repent and the vengeance of God. When God restores it all their enemies will have been utterly crushed. They will have repented. The Tribulation will be over. The 3 1/2 years is given to us in Rev and Dan in days and months so there can be no mistake. Except you made that up and it is against Scripture. The length of the Tribulation after the abomination is set up in known. In days, in months, in years. No, they are about the days Jesus just spoke about, and therefore cannot be history.

I did not realize you restricted yourself to one chapter. Matthew 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. Matthew 24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened. This tells us what days are involved. You get that much? We did not see the great tribulation. You could not even say that unless the days in 70AD had been shortened no one would be alive on earth! Lots of flesh is here and has been since 79AD if you notice. And no you cannot spiritualize the stars falling as meaning Israel. Or the sun and moon as being something else. that is where the rest of the bible comes in handy. Nor can you claim the great tribulation spoken of happened. We are giver the exact time that will last. That cannot be any old tribulation.

The days, specifically when this happens... Luke 21:27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. Luke 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh Where did the Son of Man hide then? Even the dead will see Him when He comes. Sorry, He has really not come yet. When that time comes we shall see what men have resorted to having to use. When His vengeance comes it will be for all the world and all nations. It also will be impossible to miss or mistake! Isa 33: 1 Come near, ye nations, to hear; and hearken, ye people: let the earth hear, and all that is therein; the world, and all things that come forth of it. 2 For the indignation of the Lord is upon all nations, and his fury upon all their armies: he hath utterly destroyed them, he hath delivered them to the slaughter. 3 Their slain also shall be cast out, and their stink shall come up out of their carcases, and the mountains shall be melted with their blood. 4 And all the host of heaven shall be dissolved, and the heavens shall be rolled together as a scroll: and all their host shall fall down, as the leaf falleth off from the vine, and as a falling fig from the fig tree. 5 For my sword shall be bathed in heaven: behold, it shall come down upon Idumea, and upon the people of my curse, to judgment. Oh, and notice the heavens will be dissolved also? Try that on for size for 70AD! Anyone familiar with prophesy would know right away that it would be impossible for all the things that are written have been fulfilled already. Israel is not restored and won't be until after the vengeance when they repent and God restores them. -- Then obviously it had zero to do with the Great Tribulation Jesus was talking about, or the abomination of desolation having been set up. There is only 3 1/2 years after that happens.

When you see these things start then this generation will not pass. Which generation? The generation that saw those things. That could not be until those things happened. Yet He has not yet. He has not destroyed all their enemies and returned to rule from Israel. Israel did not repent and weep as for an only son when they saw Messiah! The nations were not judged. You do not get to say this was all done. Not in any sane way. You inserted 'our lifetime' from out of your magic hat. All we know is that only when God, the Prince of Peace returns will or could they have peace. Good question why do you invent that claim? Believers today, though DO see many things lining up that show that this could be near that time. We see the countries named to come against Israel in place for example. We see Israel there as nation ready to be invaded for example. We see trouble in Damascus, and that is where we see in prophesy the city will be wiped out basically. We see a king from the north parts ready to ally with Turkey and those countries prophesied to invade Israel. We see preparations have been made for daily sacrifices to start anytime. We see the UN and how all nations could be gathered against Israel. We see a world racing toward a one world government! We see many churches in outright apostasy. We see preparations for a mark of the beast type system where some mark could be required one day to buy or sell. We do see the gospel preached in much of the world. None of these things were true in Jesus' day! So, no, we do not know exactly when, but the signs of the times are everywhere. Future of when those things He was speaking about happen. It would look dark. That would be why they need candles. Ezekiel 32:7 And when I shall put thee out, I will cover the heaven, and make the stars thereof dark; I will cover the sun with a cloud, and the moon shall not give her light. Joel 2:10 The earth shall quake before them; the heavens shall tremble: the sun and the moon shall be dark, and the stars shall withdraw their shining: Joel 3:15 The sun and the moon shall be darkened, and the stars shall withdraw their shining. Matthew 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: Mark 13:25 And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken And before they all go out, there is a time when they are only partly dark Revelation 8:12 And the fourth angel sounded, and the third part of the sun was smitten, and the third part of the moon, and the third part of the stars; so as the third part of them was darkened, and the day shone not for a third part of it, and the night likewise. Revelation 16:3 And the second angel poured out his vial upon the sea; and it became as the blood of a dead man: and every living soul died in the sea. Revelation 16:4 And the third angel poured out his vial upon the rivers and fountains of waters; and they became blood. Revelation 9:15 And the four angels were loosed, which were prepared for an hour, and a day, and a month, and a year, for to slay the third part of men. we also see another instance where 1/4 of the population die.. Revelation 6:8 And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth. That was not history!

People knew there would be a terrible time in the end. They knew Jesus would return to earth in Person and rule one day. They knew we would be caught up in the air to meet Him. They knew if they read Scripture He would bring Israel back to the land and restore them. We would call that belief. That was not new. They were right that the Catholic church was corrupt. They had no authority to guess the day when He would return. Those dots do not connect. Belief in Scripture should have been. That just tells us so called mainstream christianity was out to lunch. Somewhat like the Laodocians church was. Scripture is actually older than that. I never got lost in the confused babblings of the so called church. Call the various ages and periods whatever you like. Either they exist or not. Prophesy became more popular as we got closer to the days! Also, as the bible got out and people did not need to depend on the word of priests, naturally it would be noticed much of the bible was prophesy! The bible predicts we will not know the day. If some people claimed they did, don't blame God...or me. Which part of I could not care less what religious people thought are you not getting here? They don't want to marry naturally, they don't teach Scripture, they invent mumbo jumbo doctrines and traditions that have no real connection to Scripture...etc. Appeal to popularity. Notice that most or many church outfits also embrace what believers would consider apostasy? For example, some of them promote Sodom like lifestyles as Christian. (etc etc etc) They would be the last people on earth I would ask. Not belief in the bible and Jesus. Only falsely called churches. Of course they were and are wrong. Who said 21 century? Who said no to that century either? Since some of the signs have already been seen (not the tribulation or return of Jesus etc as you falsely claimed) then people in tune with His word know that times are late. How late we don't yet know. I must have missed that. You claimed all the wrath and return of Jesus was history. Did we miss something else? Then why did Jesus have them start preaching there? Why did Paul point out that the gospel went first to the Jews? Why did Jesus talk about folks in Israel in the end time that needed to flee etc? Why are there many prophesies about Israel being restored to the land? Anyone in the 1800 who missed all that was blind.

God has always been faithful and honoured His promises. That did not start in the 1800s. God prophesied Israel would turn to Him and be saved in the end long before there was even a New Testament, forget the 1800s. Your idea of 'Christianity' seems flawed. A better word for what you seem to have in mind is churchianity. The same God that made promises to Israel made promises to believers in Jesus. What makes you think He would screw the one and only come through for the other? That is not the God of the bible, that is not Jesus. That may be the religious traditions you thought was Christianity. But that does not matter at all.

Say what? God's promises to His chosen people is irrelevant? No. His keeping His promises is extremely relevant. No one mentioned any 21 century, yet you keep spamming that strawman argument. Since God is bringing Israel back to the land after the tribulation of course that is prophesy and relevant. Your claim that God is not likely to come in our lifetime is absurd and totally without any basis whatsoever. How would you know? Have you some inside info as to when He is coming that even Jesus while on earth and the angels did not have? But since you said He already came why would we ask you?

The days when those who would see the things are stated. The things did not happen yet, despite your claim Jesus returned already. All trees were not burned up and all grass was not burned up. None of the bowls of wrath were dumped out yet, and that is plain. All water on earth was not made into blood and undrinkable. Obviously.

Every eye saw Him return? Good luck with that. He judged the nations already? No deal there either. The mount of Olives was where His feet touched down? Nope. I could go on, but your claim is so patently false there is no need.

In verse 27 it says Jesus comes back. Those days were not any days in history. That should be obvious. Not sure what your problem is. Unless perhaps you can remind us when Jesus returned? Is He hiding in the desert?

No. You were the one tossing 24 dollar phrases and doctrinal words here. Not me. They are religious doctrines of men that were made up. Here is the real deal. Matthew 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: Matthew 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. Matthew 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. Matthew 24:32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh: Matthew 24:33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors. Matthew 24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled. So when we see those things (bolded to make it easy for you) THEN this generation won't pass till it is all done. You saw Jesus come back? You saw His angels gather believers together? No.