dad2

I am not interested in why various people think evolving happens. It happens because God created us with the ability to adapt and evolve. The theory of evolution involves a long history of supposed evolving that resulted in life as we see it. "The theory of evolution is based on the idea that all species? are related and gradually change over time. " https://www.yourgenome.org/facts/what-is-evolution "The theory of evolution encompasses the well established scientific view that organic life on our planet has changed over long periods of time and continues to change by a process known as natural selection. Charles Darwin, the 19th century naturalist, is given credit for the theory, not because he was the first person to suggest evolution occurs, but because he proposed (in his seminal 1859 text, On the Origin of Species) a mechanism that explains the process of change." http://theconversation.com/explainer-theory-of-evolution-2276 I do not believe nature was the same in the past, so any explanations (natural selection etc) about how evolution happened over (imaginary) long periods of time are pure speculation and belief. One cannot deny that science talks about common ancestors of man and creatures like flatworms.

OK. Glad to hear that.

As I actually said, evolving at the present time has not bearing on where we came from. Nor does current nature adapting/evolving reflect what we would have seen in Noah's day. Yes, common descent is part of TOE. It happens to be the only part that matters in the creation evolution debate. Abortion is a sin against life. No offense but I would not respect Catholic opinion on the matter since, by some accounts, a third of the clergy might be involved in it. " We have no reliable figures on just how many priests in the Catholic Church are gay. The Vatican has conducted many studies on its own clergy but never on this subject. In the United States, however, where there are 37,000 priests, no independent study has found fewer than 15 percent to be gay, and some have found as many as 60 percent. The consensus in my own research over the past few months converged on around 30 to 40 percent among parish priests and considerably more than that — as many as 60 percent or higher — among religious orders like the Franciscans or the Jesuits. " https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/01/gay-priests-catholic-church.html OK, so you gave your opinion.

Ok. So any evos and bible believers at all out there that would like to admit their beliefs regarding the few basic tenets of faith mentioned?

You seem to be right on that. Maybe we should do a poll and ask the creation denying 'bible believers' if they also support abortion, and homosexual unions. Will they tell us their honest position on these items? My experience has been that many liberals in the US and Canada who espouse a belief in the bible deny creation and do support abortion and same sex unions. One example is the Democratic party in the US, and the Liberals and New Democrats in Canada.

Not true at all. The TOE is about how we share relatives with flatworms and that man is a product of evolution rather than a creation of God directly. It does not matter what happens now. We are long after the time of creation. If nature now works a certain way, great. That does not mean our origins were determined by that. Adam had the ability to evolve as did all creatures. That does not mean we came to be because of evolution. Cart, meet horse.

When people badmouth conservative agenda ( I am not a conservative politically in many ways such as war) I would ask them two questions to see what the real heart of their problem is. One: Do you agree with killing babies. Two: Do you reject the man woman relationship and natural sex God instituted?

False. The reasons it loses all reliability when we get many thousands of years into the past is because the method is based on the present nature only and how it now works. Unless there were this nature in place the ratios simply lose the meaning science assumed. The only question becomes was nature the same or not? The answer is science does not know. I kid you not. The truth is you have not and cannot show evidence. All you do is use your belief and plaster it all over evidence! Period. Seriously? Your support for an impact from above is the shape of the crater? https://s3-us-east-2.amazonaws.com/orbitz-media/blog/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/16134626/orbitz-yucatan-Chicxulub-crater-ken-thomas.jpg If an impact from below happened as a fountain of the deep erupted, I do not see any reason to expect anything other than what we see. " But Gulick points out that the tsunami deposits and impact breccia found between 620 and 670 meters all came after the impact itself, .." https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2016/11/updated-drilling-dinosaur-killing-impact-crater-explains-buried-circular-hills It seems to be a matter of how we interpret things like a tsunami of water after the impact! \But as I have said, it doesn't matter to me. The event happened in the former nature, so expectations of what would occur from an asteroid impact would need to be changed also. Man has never been more than several miles down anyhow so who know what we would expect from an event in the former nature that brought a world of water upwards? Who knows how deep the water was? Who knows that science is correct about what is actually down there and at what depth? Who knows how much of the iridium came from space? No. Who says iridium floats on top of water? The iridium is found in clay, so that suggests water was involved. God called the kinds to the ark. This is news? If dinosaurs were not created original kinds, why would they be called? False. Name one method that does not assume a same state past? Ha. Scripture and ancient history are evidence. Science has none either way. Why would we disbelieve the ancient record for no reason? You might as well deny last week. It makes no sense to assume that things must have worked the same without any evidence to do so, and in opposition to actual records of the past! There is, of course, God told us about the past and the truth of creation. Demon influenced so called science has deceived people and made up stories abut origins that are in direct opposition to God. All through the bible creation is spoken about, and no interpretation is needed, or hinted at whatsoever. Only belief. Jesus is creator. You obviously believe the conclusions that scientists believe over God. That's fine. Pretending evidence exists is silly, though. There is only belief that is imposed and projected and foisted onto evidence. I kid you not. I agree. Of course God made us with the ability to adapt and evolve. There is absolutely zero evidence for the theory of evolution though!

Since you have zero science support either way you are in no position to overrule bible claims. All evidence from science is best viewed from my beliefs. No evidence in science opposes my beliefs. None supports yours! Could be. I do not care either way. However, can you prove that the impact was not from below that made the crater? That depends if you mean imaginary belief based so called science time or actual time. It also depends on whether the impact was from up or down! Easy. If science was correct iriddium comes from 2 sources. Space and the inner earth. That is where flood waters came from! Being laid down in the former nature we would not look to normal rules for deposition. Now would I expect all the year of the flood to be wildly turbulent! Space and deep under the earth. After all the waters above the firmament (where the stars are and were made) came down to earth through a portal. (windows of heaven) The change itself tells us it was something. The evidence itself does not tell us what so we must chose what to believe. no. I do not recall that at all! Even if all dinos had not already died before the start of the flood it does not mean they would be invited onto tha ark. ONLY the kinds (created kinds) were invited! If dinos evolved from birds or reptiles or whatever original kinds there were, they would not BE original kinds! Not in the least! Most animals that lived as well as man likely could not leave remains/fossil remains in the former different nature! Feel free to have them debate here if you can't then. Or lift out a few relevant quotes from their material and try to defend them. They would be easy to defeat. One belief applied three ways! A belief that nature was the same. False. You date DNA by assuming a same nature always existed. The real dates are nothing remotely similar to your belief based 'dates'. In any case you have no DNA that is usable from the time in question here..pre KT! There is zero evidence supporting the idea that genetics worked the same at some unknown point in the past. Real time or so called science imaginary time? Not at all. Your points are destroyed and I never worked up a sweat, or missed a stride. If you want to decide what to believe based entirely rejecting God and the Bible for no reason, I can respect that. Just don't pretend that there is scientific justification for your assumptions. Capice?

Right, and one of the Guys was God.

Let's remember that people who can't defend their position blabber.

Science cannot support any dates from imaginary time. Only beliefs form the foundation of the 'dates' So it would not be dating that could support either side here. In science we do have some facts. Such as that there was a worldwide layer of sediment that contained iridium. That supports a flood. The great change in life about that time (example, no dinos above the KT) also supports my position. Etc. You need to learn to separate science from so called science. The fact that no scientific evidence supports it being accurate! No science supports genetics being any way at all since we have no usable dna for the time, and do not know the forces and laws that existed and acted upon whatever genetics we did have! No. You will not, there is none. That is why we see humming and hawing and stalling.

I agree, it is not your place...unless you happened to read His word, where He tells us!

These pears didn't fall too far from the evo tree.

All the evidence fits my position. But scientific evidence alone is not adequate either way. For example, the fossil records fits, the continental separation fits, etc. You have no evidence for your position. You have beliefs that you would like to impose on evidence.

There IS no evidence to discuss from science, otherwise you would have posted some! What you thought was evidence was belief only. Really. Name any evidence and we will see. There is evidence of history and the bible. That agrees with me. The KT is a sedimentary layer. It contains material that science says comes from deep under the earth, or out in space. The flood waters came from there also. The fountains of the deep erupted so we may have had forceful eruptions/impacts in places that came from down, not up! We all have the same evidence. No one needs to embrace your beliefs. Unless you post evidence that the sediment was produced as you claim, you have lost. Stop pretending you have scientific evidence.

In your head, not in God's word. Evolution is not mentioned in Scripture, and certainly not as the way we got here. In fact it tells us God formed man and woman separately and directly. So if you use the word evolution to mean the theory of evolution, that is not observed. The first man is not you, or me. Adam was not born of a woman as you were. Eve was not born of a woman! Neither were born but created directly by God. Evolution (TOE) denies this. And the morning and the evening were the sixth day. How did God do this? " And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind " So God created every kind of animal using the earth. The earth did not bring forth of itself anything! Likewise, the sea creatures were created by kinds and THEN told to multiply. 21 And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind:

That is a lie. Evolving, reproduction, intelligence, eyesight, etc etc are all God given attributes. They cannot be credited with creation. No. He says He formed man from the dust of the earth. He also says He formed woman from a bone of the man. Eve was not produced by the earth, but created by God, as was Adam. Nor did animals get produced by the earth, but buy God from the earth. He made the earth bring forth the kinds. That is not the earth producing, it is God. I can understand pagans who are deceived and confused. I cannot countenance people claiming to be believers and accepting Scripture actively deceiving and trying to confuse others repeatedly and fanatically.

No, that is God creating and could never resemble the theory of evolution. Be honest. Parroting foolish slogans is not debating. His body was formed by God and Eve was created from a bone of the man. Why not just admit you do not believe Scripture? Translation: God did not really create a man from the dust and form and fashion him, and did not take a bone from the man and create woman, but man reeaaallly evolved from common ancestors with flatworms. Correct anything in this translation that is not accurate.

Are you going to attempt to provide different evidence, or plausible explanations consistent with evidence to support your conjectures?

No. There is no evidence, only beliefs. You believe a same nature in the past existed. Period.

The evidence actually does not suggest that. The belief based methods for dating suggest the dates. As for how the iridium actually got dispersed, that is very much a matter of debate. Very much post flood man, so that is irrelevant. If there were sufficient reason to assume that genetics used to work the same in the past, that would make sense. There isn't. So when we see the records of the past that we have, there is no reason to deny that the realities of life spoken about existed.

There is no denying we have no genetics or DNA that is usable from Noah's day. So what you do is look at today and the DNA now, and imagine how this present nature resulted in what we see. My guess at when the flood was currently is around the time of the KT layer. Have you DNA we can use from this era? Unless nature was the same, the last place we should start would be in the present.

I do not find history and Scripture to be like that. Using foolishness instead of rational substantive intelligent supported debate is cheap.

We know all about last week. Do not use foolishness to try and excuse what you do not know. On earth we had trees growing in weeks, man living about 1000 years, and spirit beings marrying women and living here. That does not happen in this nature. It is not reasonable to deny history and Scripture for no reason, and to assume anything about the nature of the past on earth without support and evidence.