FeministWhoLovesABeliever

I cannot. I can say that their website and statement of beliefs are more conservative than I appreciate. But can you prove that the people who collected and interpreted the cannon were free from any politically corrected agenda, secular points of view, and would never try to filter a verse through their agenda? Perhaps we are alike in our opposition. This is why I don't listen to things that have the slightest "sound" of prejudice against the feminine. :-) Having survived a marriage like this, I can tell you from personal observation that if an incapable man is allowed to run his house, he will ruin it. And if the man doesn't respect the woman, they will divorce or she will be abused. I have never tried to "run" my husband. I wouldn't want to. I admire and respect him. He is my hero. We are co-leaders. Neither is THE authority. Still praying. Thank you.

Yes. Someone here suggested it to me. I watched a you tube video about it. It was great! It's the sort of thing that I, if my husband and I are able to explore scripture together, I would really enjoy reading with him. Thank you!

I'm drawn to Jesus and to scripture now but remain morally against what appears to be required of me to be identified as Christian, which is to agree that rapists, killers, and abusers who accept Jesus deserve heaven, while people who earnestly seek God and believe that they have found her outside of Christianity deserve hell. I think this perspective is the epitome of the 7 sins, that it is not Christ like or God like. On the cross, Jesus begged God to forgive those who didn't believe, those who had hurt him. To the extent that Christ and scripture can help me to be more like that, I accept Christ and would like to learn more.

Did you read the article about the word "helper"? I think that we agree that male and female are not the same. And I hear you say that, as a good Christian man, you are responsible for the family. I think that, when both partners agree, this can be a beautiful family relationship. But there are many examples of this not happening, of men that are tyrants and women who are treated as servants. To me, equality and feminism are about preventing that. The term "searing" makes sense to me. I don't want to get rid of God. To me, accepting that God will only accept those of his creations that are Christian results in a " sting of consciousness." I believe God wants me to love and accept others, not to coerce their beliefs or to judge them. I think that this perspective is reflected in scripture, just not in those passages that most most Christians choose to focus on. Did you look at it? i'm curious to hear what you think. I'm praying! Thanks for taking the time to respond.

Yes. I am ready! I am trying! Thank you. Opening my heart is exactly what I'm looking for. <3

Yes. The bible says that. It also says "Therefore what God has joined together, let no one separate." Mark 10:9 and that believing spouses should not leave unbelievers. I'm mostly told here that lack of a wedding ceremony means that these two passages don't apply to us. But I haven't yet found or been shown scripture that demonstrates a wedding is required. (I fully agree that it would have been the biblically correct thing to do 9 years ago. But we can't go back in time. This article says that for the first 1k years of Christianity, most Christians didn't get married in the church. That it wasn't until 1215 that the church formally defined marriage. Yes. Two christian sides, each claiming the other is crazy to claim to be Christian. Yes. It is accurate. Nobody is without sin. Christ came to take that sin on. Many Christians are drunkards, revilers, coveters etc. while claiming entitlement of salvation. Whether or not it's a sin, 80% of evangelicals have had premarital sex. Are they also to be rejected from the Kingdom of God? What % of Christians, do you think, do everything God instructs of them? The question remains, what would God want a Christian man to do with me, today, given our 10 years of history? I think that your analogy backfired on you. . . . If being Christian is about actions, for example loving God and others, turning the cheek when someone slaps you, and "The foreigners residing among you must be treated as native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the Lord your God.—Leviticus 19:34 Than I am more Christian than many who claim that they are. (But not nearly as Christian as I aspire to be.) But if being Christian is about proclamation, than I am not and my husband is. He has turned his life over to God. What isn't clear is what God wants him to do with the person with whom, for 10 years, he professed and took actions with that were based on the mutual understanding that our relationship is sacred and that we are intended for each other in this life and beyond? Thanks for your offerings. I believe that I have found God and that she is not different than the God he is relationship with. I am interested in learning more about his knowing of God and scripture but not in denying my own relationship with God.

Absolutely. Christians have and continue to do wonderful work in the world! The article you linked to said "Another crucial point is that the purpose of the Bible is to point the way to salvation, not to reform society." But it seems to me that much of Christ's work was the reformation of society and that if we are to aspire to be like Christ, we should do the same. . I think the article is wrong to downplay slavery in biblical times. Jesus came to make right much of what the old testimate depicted, which was slavery: Lot giving virgin daughters, Abraham casting out the bondwoman and her son, the idea that as long as slaves live a day or two after a beating it is ok to beat them. Israelites were slaves to the Egyptians. I respect other people's right to believe that accepting Jesus is the most important teaching of the bible. But I suspect that the highlighting of such acceptance was the result of people who controlled the scriptures, people who had reason to downplay scriptures rebellion of systems and control. I think that the most profound praise that we can give God is to cherish and protect her creation. I think that self-soothing ourselves with expectations of salvation while condoning horrific acts, like separating immigrant children from their parents, is disrespectful to God. Other's might be right that God wants, more than anything, for me to accept Christ as my savior. But I may be right that scripture like this is more important: "Cursed is anyone who withholds justice from the foreigner, the fatherless or the widow." Deuteronomy 27:19 This is what the LORD says: Do what is just and right. Rescue from the hand of the oppressor the one who has been robbed. Do no wrong or violence to the foreigner, the fatherless or the widow, and do not shed innocent blood in this place. Jeremiah 22:3-5 “You shall not hand over to his master a slave who has escaped from his master to you. He shall live with you in your midst, in the place which he shall choose in one of your towns where it pleases him; you shall not mistreat him. Deuteronomy 23:15-16 He who oppresses the poor taunts his Maker,But he who is gracious to the needy honors Him. Proverbs 14:31

Oh yes. I wasn't trying to say that the bible is pro-slavery. I'm sorry if I came across that way. "Slave" may have only been used once in the but "bondsman" was also used, which is the same thing. I was just trying to point out that there are contradictions, which leaves room for interpretation. I think that there is a decent possibility that I may come to claim Christ as my savior. But I'm getting more and more clarity that, if I do so, it won't be because the bible tells me that it is the only path to salvation. It will be because I feel that it is the good and right thing to do. I will continue to invite Christ into my heart and prayers. I will continue to study scripture. And if God, as Christianity knows him to be, is as certain as Christians are that Christ is the only way to God, than most certainly he will come to me and show me the way.

I do and I love that. No. There is no a head of the household. The feminine and the masculine each have unique gifts and challenges. Neither the masculine or feminine is more or less important than the other. There are times when each must carry the other and times when each should submit to the other. LOL. Yes! There is nature in the divine order regarding the magnitude of how the sexes relate naturally and it is often misrepresented as men thinking that their unique perspectives and gifts are more important than women's and also the laughably absurd position that they are qualified to speak to or define the role of the feminine. I would never presume to tell my beloved how men should behave and he would never do the opposite. It is for me to see and honor the masculine gifts that he provides for me and he to see and honor the feminine ones that I give to him. Really I have no idea. I think that you are suggesting it would be women but that has not been my experience. But let's say for a moment that it is, that women talk most. But let's stay in today and bring the same example to politics where, men are doing considerably more talking. And, instead of asking them to limit themselves to 50% of the time, as Paul could have done in the scenario that you provided. Lets just tell them keep silent in politics. If that doesn't sit well with you, than neither should the latter. I completely agree. (LGBTQUIA readers please know I'm not referring to your body parts but your identity.) The feminine should not try to be masculine. Likewise, the masculine should not try to be feminine. In other words, neither gender should presume to understand, speak for, or represent the other. Instead, because each gender is blinded, they should seek insight from the other. As long as you are using the term "equal" to mean "the same as", instead of suggesting that one is more valuable than the other, I fully agree. Yes. It is horrible and we have horrible violence against women in the US as well. It's not as bad as in some primarily muslim countries. But then some of them have chosen women presidents and prime ministers. So in some ways, some of them, are ahead of us. All of this I can appreciate. This has been how my beloved has cherished me. What you have written does express the most common interpretation of the original text. Will you also read this? Please. https://liferotp.com/acblog/2015/8/20/6-the-ezer-kenegdo . It is another Christian interpretation of the original text. Thank you. I'm working on it!

Thanks. I'll check it out. But I'm not an athiest. I don't doubt that there is one God.

Close. I'm not really interested in other people's answers. I'm hoping for thoughtful biblical dialogue. I'm not sure that it's the only answer. The people on this forum appear to be much more "hard core" than other Christians and pastors that I've spoken to. But it is an answer that I'm willing to explore, which is why I'm here. His is a grandfather of 4 and my youngest is almost out of the house, so this won't be a problem. But, I've always said that if we had kids, I would want him to baptize them and bring them to an egalitarian church. I've never attended church with him but, now that I'm becoming interested in scripture, I think that I would like to. No I wouldn't want him to try to get me to go to every church event. Neither of us have tried to get the other to go anywhere and we both often enjoy doing our own things. But if there was something special at the church that he wanted me to attend, I would. I would also like to share church with him. I think that I would especially enjoy bible study. We have historically kept separate finances. I don't interfere with his spending. We got further together than either of us did without the other or than he did when he was "equally yoked." We have a long way to go but our life goals are in alignment. We both love to travel. I've especially loved service work and imagine spending most of my time in refugee camps or something similar. I suspect that he would prefer more developed countries than I am drawn to but he hasn't had the chance to experience the ones that would be my first choice yet and, if he does and still prefers developed countries, I'm fine with adjusting accordingly. We love spending time together but we are also both rather independent so there would be times when he might visit his kids while I go to developing countries or where I am with mine while he is fishing and hunting in Alaska. Using this analogy, my husband might have to plow most of the field. But I won't be sitting on my butt and instead of having to also cook, clean, gather and care for the oxen, he will rest when he is done with his work and I will rub his shoulders. I appreciate your honesty. What do you think God would want a Christian man to do with a woman with whom he had spent 9 years pledging a lifelong relationship and assuring her that it was blessed by God? I've been working on that. Will keep trying. I'm NOT calling Christ nonsense. I'm saying that I aspire to be like Christ, to beg God to forgive those who are killing me, regardless of their religion. I think the answer to that hinges on whether or not he considers me worthy. If he does, I believe that we will have a wonderful life together, that we will learn from each other and serve each other and the less fortunate, together. I believe that we will, once again, find solace and inspiration in each others arms, as we did for so many years. I believe that our relationship can be strengthened by bringing God into it. Thank you for taking the time to respond to my post. Please pray for us.

Now a church that supported this would be interesting to me! I seek inspiration and knowledge, not indoctornation.

I don't want to turn my beliefs over to any gospel, person, or group. For me, belief isn't a choice. It's a result of knowledge, experience, and inner-knowing. I don't think that these things are separate from God, nor do I think that, in spite of my diligent efforts, these components that lead to belief are safe from the unconscious influence of my desires. This is why it's so important to seek the guidance of those I respect. Slavery was once widely justified by Paul's words: “Servants, be obedient to them that are your masters according to the flesh, with fear and trembling, in singleness of your heart, as unto Christ; not with eye-service, as men-pleasers; but as the servants of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart; with good will doing service, as to the Lord, and not to men: knowing that whatsoever good thing any man doeth, the same shall he receive of the Lord, whether he be bond or free.” (Ephesians, VI, 5-7) God's wishes haven't changed since slavery was an institution. Our collective interpretation of the bible did. I suspect that, long ago, people who were interested in accepting Christ experienced reluctance that is similar to mine because the bible they were being told to accept as the word of God was used to promote slavery and that they too were dismissed by many Christians for being under the influence of "deceiving spirit." God doesn't want slavery. God doesn't want misogyny.

Thanks. I'll read Gospel Of 1 Cor15:1-4 tonight. And also thank you, so much, for praying for me. tears.

Thank you for the apology. I assure you that I'm not at all concerned about what Michael said. I think it is important to stand up to bullying. I hope that when you were attacked people stood up for you.

It is true. I'm judging you. But I've kept those thoughts to myself. Instead I only wrote of the way you treated me. you justify your treatment of me with the Old Testament. In contrast, the new testament says: 39 But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to them the other cheek also. 40 And if anyone wants to sue you and take your shirt, hand over your coat as well. 41 If anyone forces you to go one mile, go with them two miles. 42 Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you (Matthew 5:38-48) And the Pharisees and gtheir scribes grumbled at his disciples, saying, h“Why do you eat and drink with tax collectors and sinners?” 31 And Jesus answered them, “Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick. 32 iI have not come to call the righteous jbut sinners kto repentance.” (Luke 5) Why are choosing scripture that suits your stance? Thank you, Michael, for serving as an example of many of the things that I've been saying.

I might be able to get to the above. I aspire to be like this. I want God to forgive those who have harmed me. I want God to save those who have not accepted Jesus as their savior. I'm seeing that, with Jesus. But Martha was distracted by all the preparations that had to be made. She came to him and asked, "Lord, don't you care that my sister has left me to do the work by myself? Tell her to help me!""Martha, Martha," the Lord answered, "you are worried and upset about many things, but few things are needed--or indeed only one. Mary has chosen what is better, and it will not be taken away from her." (Luke 10:40) Not so much with Paul: "Women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the law says." (1 Corinthians 14:34) "I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet." (1 Timothy 2:12) I do! This is what I love about the Faith in Feminism podcast. It talks about things that I can relate to, things that help make scripture relevant to me :-) I'm not saying that is only a man-made book. I'm saying that if my husband welcomes me as Jesus did Mary than I want to be part of that. But if he or any other teacher thinks that I am not to speak in church and that I shouldn't be allowed to teach or assume authority over a man, than I want no part of that. (My beloved is very much the former instead of the latter. But the bible that he wants me to embrace contains the latter.)

So Jesus, in his life, did was not heard to say these things. Instead they were written by people who were led by his spirit. To me, this just circles back to human fallibility. Christianity, Catholicism, LDS, JW, all make different determinations about what was ultimately from God. The "We know that the cannon that we hold is the full, complete, clear, and only words of Christ because it says that it is." approach isn't going to work for me. If I come to the conclusion that it is, it will be from a different angle. Maybe because scripture will start to resonate with me or I'll have a personal experience of Christ. I am finding that, for the most part, this forum isn't increasing my desire to know Christ. (This is a general statement. It isn't directed at you, Coliseum) I suspect that a good number of you will think it's because I'm not getting the answers that I want. But I'm not here for social proof or other people's opinions of what my answers should be. I'm looking for inspiration and questions that will engage my mind, heart, intuition, and experiences and bring me closer to Christ. The Faith and Feminism podcast is doing this for me, so I'm going to turn most of my time and attention there and slow down my responses here. Insofar as we all share the same goal of my coming closer to Christ, perhaps those of you who can't meet me someplace besides "it is true because it says it's true" might be so kind as to drop out of the conversation? I think that if I do come to accept Christ as my savior, it won't be from a place of fear, but from one of joy and wonder. It won't be from finding the right answers but from finding the right questions. I hope that those of you who are interested in engaging in such conversations with me will be patient in waiting for responses. This single response has taken me 2 hours and I'm super-behind with work. Thank you all for engaging with me this far. I've learned a lot. <3

I assure you, my heart is intimately familiar with the horror of who I was and what I have done. Yes, there have been terrifying revelations. I am more than 800 days into woe as me, most of which I longed for death. Though what I did was not intentional, I was responsible for the immense suffering of people that I was responsible for protecting. I am deserving of damnation. I feel contrite towards those who I've harmed and hope to earn their forgiveness. But I believe that I have Gods' mercy and forgiveness. (I know that this doesn't fit into the Christian box.) I am praying for it. Thank you for praying for me and blessing me <3

Thank you so much for acknowledging this. It soothes my heart. Fascinating. Some translations of Matthew 19:29 include leaving the wife, others do not. I'm sorry. I will pray for you also. <3

This is way over my head.

Thanks. I'll check that out when I run out of Faith and Feminism podcasts or find a little extra time :-) And, again, thanks for joining in to encourage thinking.

I'm not talking about small kinks. I'm talking about the removal of women and the reduction of their value. If God has and will preserve the integrity of his word, than Catholics, LDS and Jehovah's Witnesses texts are also under Christ's authority? This is from a letter that was written by Paul, who did not know Christ but instead experienced divine revelations. In essence, how is this different from Joseph Smith's revelations? yes. the ultimate chicken and egg conundrum. without him I cannot understand. I cannot have him unless I understand.

Godismyloveforever, You have offered guidance about how to navigate the forum, and the importance of capitalizing God and including reference information when I quote scripture. Thank you. But this time around, Michael is the one in need of some guidance. The words "even if" do not make what he did acceptable. Instead of starting his own thread to discuss his thoughts, he chose to enter into a conversation that I started, am a central part of, and am actively participating in. But he did not include me in his response. Instead, by referring to me in the third person, he spoke to everyone except me. He insinuated that I am foolish and weak and that everyone else in the conversation is wise and mighty, that I am a thing to be despised. I responded to his infantilizing me, with respect, by speaking directly to him. I made my sentences questions, in order to afford him the opportunity to correct anything that I had misinterpreted. You patting me on the head and suggesting that I lighten up, in the face of being disrespected, emboldens disrespect. Is it not your missive to correct him, instead of me? What business of mine is it to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? God will judge those outside. Expel the wicked person from among you. (1 Corinthians 5:12) "Anyone else musing that the title of this thread "Seeking Guidance On Common Law Marriage", is posted on a Christian forum populated by Bible believers at various stages of enlightenment, yet its author rejects the teachings of the Bible as the inventions of fallible humans? Hopefully the light of the gospel will shine through the darkness underlying this request even if it has been posted for the author's amusement. 1Co 1:27-29 But God has chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God has chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty; (28) And base things of the world, and things which are despised, has God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are: (29) That no flesh should glory in his presence."

James 4:12