Lanakila

But, we do need to be careful that we don't just lump everyone together. We don't always know the motives of the person writing the book. Tim Lahaye for example I believe to be a wonderful man who has written some great books on the endtimes issue. I don't believe that he is making so called millions from this writing either, and how do you know what he or anyone for that matter does with their money. I agree that many people are trying to cash in on the endtimes hysteria but we need to be carefull in pointing fingers because this is a very materialistic age and most of us have 2 cars, a home and many nice possessions. In other words, I am carefull what I say publicly about any servant of God, because we are supposed to be building up the kingdom not tearing down those who are part of it.

Levi, if you read my post about 2 Thes I don't see this as conjecture of any type but the truth of scripture. We are discussing supposedly why we believe in whatever rapture we believe, and to ramble on about conjecture doesn't give the reasons you believe whatever it is you believe about the rapture.

Newport News Va, but we are military and move around alot.Won't be here too long either. My name Lanakila I acquired living in Hawaii, it means victory in that language.

Neb, I don't believe in pre-trib beacue I am afraid, but because I believe the Bible teaches this. Matt 24 Jesus was teaching about the end of the age (second coming) the rapture (if its pre-trib) is 7 years before that so it can be easily explained that he isn't talking about the rapture in Mat 24. I know Jesus teaches simply but some of his teaching is a mystery he said that too. I am sure that because it is a mystery the end times is something that can be interpreted many ways. I am not going to argue with God about it if I am wrong (famous author said this) but still believe in pre-trib till all is revealed and we know all. Jesus said no man knows the day or the hour of his coming and I take that to be a mystery. Mysteries will continue to be understood differently by different people and I think thats ok too.

Xan I think you must be talking about 2 Thes 2 but that passage from my understanding clearly teaches pre-trib.  Verse 6 - following And now you know what is holding him (the man of lawlessness) back, so that he may be revealed at the proper time.  For the secret power of lawlessness is already at work; but the one who now holds it back will continue to do so till he is taken out of the way. And then the lawless one will be reavealed, whom the Lord Jesus will overthrow with the breath of his mouth and destroy by the splendor of his coming. I have always understood this passage to clearly teach that when the believers and thence the Holy Spirit living inside believers is taken out of the way in the rapture, then the Antichrist will be revealed. I know you don't agree but, in context read all of chapter two and see if you don't see why others might think differently. Matthew 24 I understand to be after the rapture, and tribulation that the ones taken are the lost taken to appear before the white throne judgement. I don't think that passage in context is describing the rapture of the church either. The books I recommended are just theology books, if you have a problem with that I am sorry, but I do consult them occasionally, to help in a difficult or mysterious passage of scripture.  Like I said the most important thing is occupying until He comes, and I am only giving my reason for my pre-trib belief.

From my understanding its a pre-trib rapture also. The twisting seems to be needed to get post or mid trib.  Some good theology books on the subject are Dwight Pentecost Things to Come, and John Walword is a good author also.  I don't think its something worth arguing about though. The main thing is be ready one way or another, and try to snatch as many out of the enemies hands as possible.

Yes war is ugly to the extreme, but our military although far from perfect has advanced greatly in limiting colateral damage. During WW2 from all that I have seen and heard we won because we had more bodies to take bullets than the enemy had bullets (Saving Private Ryan 1st 1/2 hour showed this philosophy of war. Now at least we have changed that Americans are so upset at even the loss of one American life when in past wars hundreds of thousands perished. We don't target civilians on purpose but, the tradgedy of war is its a far from perfect exchange and lives are lost (both civilian and military). We are a military family and my hubby will give up his commission and leave the military if (the leaders) start targeting civilians on purpose like what happened in Nagasaki and Hiroshima to end that war.

The scripture that says we reap what we sow, applies even after salvation on earth anyhow. After we get to heaven we are dependent on Christ's righteousness not our own that got us there. So in other words it doesn't make a difference with God if we are saved as a young child (few sins) or as an adult murderer like Ted Bundy, but justice must still be done in society and therefore in that case capital punishment.

amen !!!

Most evangelical Christians don't believe all birth control is wrong, Samson. The ones that kill the unborn child such as the IUD or even plain abortion we would say is morally wrong. Birth control that isn't harming the unborn child I would say is up to the individual couple on that. Catholics are opposed to all birth control except for rythym method as a group, although many Catholics still continue to use birth control of all different types. Anyhow, I just wanted to go on record that all Christians don't believe that birth control is wrong.

giggles, astrology may not be worshiping other gods, then again it may be. The strange thing is I read stuff everyday about people who got involved in the new age or other strange religion, sometimes even satanism and they started out by dabbling in astrology. I agree that it is mostly a waste of money, but think it is also a tool of satan to get people away from the one true God and His Son Jesus. A highschool classmate of mine has a website that she advertized on the classmates page. This lady is way out there in the new age movement, and her testimony of how she got there: it started with dabbling in astrology when I was 14 years old. My advice is stay far away from that stuff.

Kiwi, you can not force anyone to accept Christ so I don't think its possible that God will judge you for them not being lead to Him. If you are as you said trying to be a positive influence then, you should just pray for opportunities to witness. I undertand where you are coming from in this (I think). My family is mostly unsaved and I have friends and neighbors that are unsaved. I try my best to be a good example of what a true Christian should be, and pray for opportunities to share with them the true gospel. The most important thing is staying right with God and following the leading of the Holy Spirit in your life. Christ will give you boldness when necessary to share either your testimony, or a word of wisdom, or even the entire gospel. You should know how to witness, the Romans Road is a good place to start, and walk with God so as to have an answer for the hope that lies within you. From there God will give you opportunities to be "salt"and "light" in this world. You can email me or message me if you have any questions about what I have posted. I am not an expert on witnessing and sometimes feel guilt for not taking opportunities that are there to witness. So, I am far from perfect at this (just forgiven), I have been involved in evangelistic teams though and can share some of my training/experience.

Angels, I love Lori Wick and have read a lot of her books. Have read a few Francine Rivers (can't for the life of me remember the names though,LOL).

Thanks George, I was a little frustrated and you answered my questions with that link.

I am not kidding but, refuse to argue further. You ignored the rest of my post.

This apparent contradiction is easily explained because there were 2 Marys. One named Mary Magdalene, and one the sister of Lazarus. Please stop looking for contradictions in the Bible and just believe it is God'd Word and the Jesus did raise from the dead. The Bible isn't the only evidence of this either. Study Josephus.

(Edited by Lanakila at 2:28 pm on Feb. 17, 2002)

Levi, I didn't say that Jews were in a cult. I wasn't even speaking of cults in my statement. Jews follow monotheism and worship the one true God although denying the Messiahship of Jesus Christ. I would not say they are part of a cult. Actually I was trying to get away from the cult statement and to the point that the only way to be saved is through Christ Jesus our Lord. He proved he was God by his resurrection from the dead. God's Word explains how to be born again--and the need for the same--clearly in the book of Romans. That many people ignore these passages of scripture and form their own doctrine (even religion) is common doesn't make it right. Jesus said I am the way, the truth, and the life, no man comes to the father but by me. Then he rose from the dead authenticating his authority to say that. Those who deny his diety can't be saved. That doesn't necessarily mean they are part of a cult. Some are some aren't. Mormonism is called a cult because as a whole its doctrines pervert the word of God (by adding to, taking away). Most of the members I would say are decieved into thinking its a "Christian" religion. I am not trying to be offensive in this just informative. Mormons aren't ok believing a lie and if we can convince a few that their doctrine is messed up and win them to Christ then, Praise God.

Levi, I would add that if you haven't visit the website I mention how would you know if the information is misrepresented. (You wouldn't) Jesus said in John 14:6 I am the way, the truth, and the life, no man comes to the Father but, by me. The scripture is exclusionary, those who try to make it to the Father through church membership, baptism, or even good works, will fall short.  I didn't say that and its not a private interpretation either. Jesus himself said this. In America there is a pluralistic view of religion and belief, that isn't so in most of the world. But, God isn't pluralistic in the way the website you sent me to is. God loves everyone and if there was a way to heaven without faith in Christ then as Paul said Christ is dead in vain, and our faith is vain, God forbid. Mankind has the power to believe whatever they want, but not the right morally. If this weren't so than why did God command that the Jews drive the pagan idol worshipers out of the promised land. It is morally wrong to believe in anything other than the God of Heaven and His Son Jesus and thats why God can and does send those who don't to ####. He loves mankind and is not willing that any should perish, but that all would come to repentence 2 Pet 3:9.

Leviathon, you must be saying Mormons are lambs based on a lack on knowledge of their doctrine. More like wolves in sheeps clothing I would say. They are totally mixed up on the diety of Christ, and you have to believe in Christ to be saved.

A suicide bomber is "patriotic"???  I don't think so and neither does our President. Suicide bombers are terrorists and you can't get around that. They are engaging civilians in a supposed time of peace. I know you side with the Palestinians in this undeclared war "interfada", I am still trying to figure out why from your posts though. I know Israel isn't right with God right now, but God isn't through with them. I do pray for the peace of Jerusalem and will continue to do so.

I am a fan of Christian romance or mystery novels. I love Peretti, The Left Behind Series, Janette Oake, Gilbert Morris, BJ Hoff, and others along that line of books. For non-fiction I am reading alot of textbooks right now as I am in college and although not for enjoyment I am learning alot anyway, LOL.

Apologetics does mean the defense of the faith.

Pointing our heresy isn't judging but be careful that you are accurate in your pointing out.  Also, God knows the heart and motives we do not and cannot claim to.  When you post things that appear to point to the fact of false motives you will be accused of judging.  The fruit of Benny Hinn is obvious enough. His doctrine is in error, but we don't know why he does the things he does and can't claim to know that unless Benny has told us personally he is in it for the money or whatever.

Blessings and peace to all