TJGospels

I'm framing this as a general question rather than a specifically Christian question. There are likely books and articles on this topic I'll have to look up as well. It is clear that countries which enjoy a high level of trust tend to have higher average incomes and higher levels of happiness. Which makes sense since corruption is minimized and plans are actually followed through as per original agreements. I know quite a few churchgoers who are prosperous and appear to have happy family lives. Although I can probably say the same for individuals who are not churchgoers as well. I wonder if in my own case I am having unrealistic expectations on how a higher standard of morality would have impacted my quality of life. I believe God has answered my prayers on several occasions almost immediately. But my level of stress which caused me to follow this path, while it has subsided, has far from disappeared. I'm almost certain that I've been expecting too much too soon, and there is clear evidence that God has helped me and that I am improving week to week, but maybe I got ahead of myself and expected too much too soon.

I'm getting more emails from churches that are reducing the number of sunday services. It looks like local churches have lost about a third of their members in the past couple of years.

I'd like to find a church where I'm not overwhelmed by a sense of boredom and repetition before during and after.

Yeah it's confirmed: the flirtatious married lady has been replaced in her position. She's not listed anywhere among church staff.

Open preaching doesn't turn people off. It creates an unexpected pressure and sense of accountability when they least expect it. Going to a busy shopping mall connotes fun, relaxation and enjoyment. Christianity in its institutional form is full of dour hymnals, an extremely old, tired, suffering elderly population and endless admonitions on any attempt to enjoy oneself. Services have gotten shorter and shorter as people's attention spans shorten increasingly over time. They are less able to talk about "hell," not that they could have expounded in any meaningful, rational way prior, but any mention of the topic now could lead to a decline in revenue. Churches are trapped by their inherent asceticism when 99.99999% of the rest of the world just wants to have fun. How do you sell infinite restraint in a fun loving world? Answer is, you can't.

Anyone looking for a wonky, feel good counter at this point is engaging in wishful thinking. Attendance TANKED over the past 2 and a half years. And it will not recover anytime soon. The most likely scenario is that churches bleed more and more members and attendees over time. They've capitulated to a far greater degree than they needed to (which was not at all), and deliberately attempted to keep members aways physically so what else could they have expected? Even with their emphasis on revenue vs substance, they still can't seem to make wise decisions. A few mega churches will remain, maybe for 20 years, maybe 30, but they've already shown their weak underbelly. They are willing to close their doors at the drop of a hat. They are literally willing to lose 19,000 attendees on the pointless whim of corrupt government officials. When returning in 2021ish, churches had dropped so sharply in what they could or would offer, it was chilling. The only option now is to watch the slow decline as the carnival barkers go kaput. And they have no-one to blame but themselves.

There was a small, local-ish contingent which tried that, street preaching that is. They gave up after a while. Like all street vendors they chose one of the busiest spots in town. It made no difference. They stacked a lot of small tricks to try to convince people there was a 'crowd' but they couldn't gain any momentum. Enormous numbers of hours invested for little conversion outcome. It might sound like a good idea, but most people view street preachers as a nuisance to be avoided, even a menace. As far as small groups, it's tough to maintain them without some avenue to replenish participants, which is usually a church. It's not one or the other. Christianity just isn't trending these days, marijuana and sitting on the couch are meanwhile.

Nice ideas in theory. In reality churches have been overtaken with communist ideas and the demographic shift makes most look like senior citizen's communities. Kids have no choice but once they become a bit more independent, starting in high school, churches bleed out members heavily. Churches seem "OK" with the big declines in attendance as long as coffers are filled but they're just a generation away from the crisis stage. You could say the crisis period has already begun.

The women iq are both married to church staff, who are still listed as such. The wives, not so much. Clearly, the women are being singled out. I'm curious as to what happened, but the church is so small, it would feel strange going back. They used to attract many younger adults, but have taken great measures to push their main demographic away. The church is basically a shell of it's former self.

Curiously, the offending women at the TCIQ are no longer staff listed. Perhaps they're on a mission. Maybe they're working at or attending a different church. Most likely, since they were subject to a public, specific and rather prolonged reprimand, their "services" are being de-emphasized. Sensible move on the church's part but merely a drop in the bucket.... This is no longer a faith issue, but an issue of boredom.

As a brief update, I'm completely burned out with just about every "local" church I've attended. When I drive out of town, there are certainly far better services to be sure, but even there, attendance has taken a very big hit. Services which used to be filled are now near empty auditoriums in some cases, often only a quarter full. Every church I've attended locally and out of town is very seriously compromised. As in, none are really christian churches with serious pastors. Mainly, the pastors are grinding away tending to their oldest, most devoted followers who keep the coffers filled (mostly).

This is at the heart of the problem with so-called christianity and christians today: lowering the bar over and over again until the church and christians are so debased and sinful that the church is even more sinful than the secular world. Ironically, the more fake christians lower the bar, the more church attendance and engagement suffer so it doesn't work anyway.

Tax exempt status compromises most all churches to a laughable degree. Reading the banner/headlines on any church website is just like reading the ticker tape on CNN or headline news. It's not even an issue of integrity anymore: church staff need MONEY and in order to make MONEY they need to support whatever evil agenda the government is imposing on all of us, or at least trying to. Sometimes the impact is superficial, but sometimes the impact is severe and the staff wholeheartedly go along with the evil government agenda 100%. The churches I'm attending support the official narratives on a superficial level, but actually offer messages of substance or at least do their best to try to. The buffoonery and lies are often so extreme though it makes me wonder what I'm doing at church at all. Any legitimate christian who thinks most churches are operating in a principled way these days is fooling themselves.

People in cars, on the patio, in church, online, what a sad example of the outcome of the successful divide and conquer strategy of the anti-Christian left. I guess church "leadership" has to kowtow to whatever fears are circulating, however irrational or even absurd.

As you all know, I'v been doing a lot of research on which church I would feel comfortable and enjoy attending. I actually think I've found several. The thing is, I'm enjoying attending different churches and seeing if I "click" with one or several. In doing so, I've noticed that just about every church has taken a major hit in live attendance. Obviously, through no fault of their own. However, this does tend to lend a 'somber' rather than festive feel with so many empty seats most anywhere you go. Clearly, there are people watching a live stream, watching outdoors in some cases, in their cars, listening to a podcast later when they have time, etc. But when I compare current attendance with photos of from years past, it's hard to ignore the fact that almost every room has far fewer people in 2022 compared to 2020 and prior. One of the larger churches in our area is likely down at least by a third. I wouldn't be surprised if live attendance was down by closer to 50%. They claim that there has been no decline if online viewership is counted, but I seriously doubt this claim. This church initiated some severe reductions in staff salary and I doubt that they've been able to recoup enough revenue to return to their previous incomes. It's likely that the pastors were all making at least $100K, as they were all able to afford expensive luxury sports equipment reserved for people in that income bracket. I'm wondering what churches are doing to strategize in light of this ongoing and likely future long term decline in attendance and accompanying decline in revenue. Perhaps we all just need to organize christian meetings ourselves, sans offices, buildings and salaries. There are many, many, many corrupt churches and I don't feel the least bit sorry for the decline in revenue they experience. However, there are also tons of churches with the highest levels of integrity and those are the churches I feel badly for. I'm hoping these are the churches that pull through these trying times.

In visiting new churches, I'm noticing that there are different 'types' of churches. In particular, there are 2 types. One type is permissive with a relaxed atmosphere. The second type is 'strict' with a more formal feel. You could think of the distinction as traditional vs contemporary, which works reasonably well. The key differences are as follows 1. permissive churches usually have a relaxed, informal feel. There is less emphasis on reading scripture, and more emphasis on discussing contemporary cultural or sometimes, politics. Behavioral standards are 'lax.' There is more of a likelihood of 'woke' politics being prominently featured. There is often a 'fun' festive feel. The larger the church, the more likely it is to fit this 'modern' mold. There is less stress and tension in the congregation, but more of a likelihood of misconduct, corruption and general lack of mindfulness of the mission of worshiping Jesus and following his teachings. 2. strict churches usually have a strong, patriarchal pastor. This pastor focuses more strictly on reading and interpreting passages from the Bible. Services are longer. There tend to be fewer behavioral problems among staff, and congregation as they are more mindful of maintaining a more pious demeanor and mentality. The downside of such a strict regimen is that the congregation is often uptight, stressed and most importantly, the pastor himself can become angry, overbearing and generally intimidating. I'm looking for a church which strikes a bit of a balance. A christ and bible based church which nonetheless has more of a casual, relaxed feel. I do believe I've found a church or two which have. There is no such thing as a perfect church. The best you can do is to find a church or churches which fit your preferences as to how you practice.

I water down sodas, teas and juices 50%. I don't do it to save money, but because these drinks are all too sweet or sour for me undiluted. I suppose I'm too used to restaurant drinks which are all severely watered down. I was also addicted to those $1 michelina frozen meals. Absolutely delicious and ridiculously affordable. Costco has some crazy sales which can save you a lot of money (although the membership fee eats into savings obviously). They've held the line on their food court and rotisserie chicken prices. I don't need to buy much clothing these days, but I used to always shop at ross, tjmaxx and at various vintage stores which have fantastic selections at very reasonable prices. Old Navy clearance prices were close to free on socks and underwear but it's been a while since I've shopped there. I generally avoid dollar tree when possible: the quality is typically abysmal. Even when you find some great buys you'll wind up throwing away so much because it's unusable it's generally not worth it.

I'm in a (very) blue state and most of the churches will not condemn any form of sin, much less explicitly and consistently. As I have stated in other posts, it's quite clear that many "pastors" locally actually support these things!

For fun, I skimmed through the online video of service from the larger church I used to attend. It's very different watching the "pastors" close up as opposed to hundreds of feet away. You can pick up little details you couldn't otherwise. There's one "pastor" in particular whose sincerity I long doubted, way before I was wise to the corruption of the "lead pastor." Up close, you can see this pastor smirking, rolling his eyes, looking back and laughing with the worship music guy as he delivers his lines. All of these churches seem to use specific hook lines or catch phrases, much like professional wrestlers. At least for this large church, it's all a show. I was conned all along and didn't even realize it for at least 5 years. I have been conned by two churches in a row (at least). If this happens again....

I just checked a local church. There is no more young adults group. It went from 3 dozen regular, attending members to zero in 6 years. Actually, active young adults groups in at least 3 or 4 churches have completely disappeared.

At the larger church I used to attend, there was a relatively active young adults group, both formal and informal. That group "aged out" into their 30's and their numbers were not replenished in the late 2010's into the 2020's. Same thing at the medium sized church I'm leaving, but on a proportionately smaller scale. Both churches also had active high school programs, which I assumed would replenish the 'young adult' church attendance in a few years. Instead, post 2020, young adult attendance at both churches seemed to drop off to near zero. At the medium sized church, high school students simply stopped attending so there is no longer a high school program. Kids and middle schoolers still attend, but they are still under the strong influence of their parents. Once activities ramp up in high school and these children have more freedom they are opting out of church in a major way. What is the future of churches if entire age cohorts are opting out? How can the church possibly continue on with young people avoiding church?

I absolutely prefer as short of a trip as possible to church, no question. Having said that, the local churches are forcing my hand. I've made the rounds before, settled on a church and it blew up in a heap of corruption and decadence. 2nd church, same thing. These are the BEST run churches in town. I am not looking for perfection. I am looking for service messages which are relevant and coherent and for staff and congregations that think and act with integrity.

Thank you so much for your kind and insightful words, Willa! The pseudo-"church" in question (TCIQ) is in my rear view mirror now. It is not a church and the staff are not even close to being true christians. The lower-ranking staff are all in cahoots to foment a politically correct revolution once the time is ripe. The "lead" pastor is struggling in just about every way imaginable. It was becoming increasingly cringe worthy. There is ONE pastor on staff whom I respect, but he is isolated surrounded by some serious knuckleheads. It is astonishing how quickly these phony churches and christians show their true colors once they are faced with even the slightest criticism. It's almost laughable how little effort they put into their facade. I've said this before and I'll say it again: the local churches are almost all incompetent and/or corrupt. TCIQ is facing long odds. Everything seems more or less serene or placid on the "surface" from a distance. However, upon even slightly closer inspection, the stress is written all over their faces. They are scrambling as their weeknight service attendance has plummeted. They appear to be dissatisfied with their numbers for sunday services as well as they have rescheduled service times, to try to attract a larger congregation. The local churches are in a very tough spot. The percentage of the population identifying as christian is dropping precipitously, and our local extremely liberal (yet not very bright) local population has consistently shown little interest in attending or supporting local churches. How can they increase attendance and revenue in this setting? They are scrambling for short-term quick fix solutions like free donut night or shuffling around service times. Despite any and all efforts, there is not much they can do to stem the tide. One possibility is to do their best to sustain membership and attendance numbers by acting with integrity and transparency but they demonstrated long ago they are either not interested or feel it's not possible (at least not without significant inconveniences which they will do anything to avoid).

At this point? It's not clear to me. After reading Pagan Christianity, what's clear is almost all of the practices of the modern church are rooted more in paganism and secularism than the Bible. In so many cases the "pastors" set such a low standard they are not anywhere near worthy of being regarded as role models or as sources of wisdom, about the Bible which is supposedly their area of expertise, and certainly not in other important matters where it is safe to dismiss their views completely. In researching other churches, there is a staggering sameness and homogeneity which leads me to ask yet another question: why am I bothering researching other churches when they are far more similar than they are unique? It's like choosing between Burger King and McDonald's. Should I really bother, or should I avoid both? I am wondering if I am better off hiking, meditating, praying, listening to worship music and reading and studying the Bible on my own instead of attending any church. At least that way I will not continue to be disappointed by dumb, goofy pastors and staff who are pushing their own left wing agenda instead of following the teachings of the Bible. I am also continually shocked at how meek, submissive and uninquisitive 90 to 99% of all members of a congregation are. They will not question ANYTHING. They will believe ANYTHING. They will do ANYTHING they are asked, as long as they believe it is coming from the "governing authorities" or better yet, "church leadership." At this point, given the lack of inquisitiveness, the lack of courage, and the shocking willingness of church members to live in fear and guilt in perpetuity without pursuing the truth for themselves, I am actually starting to become embarrassed by the thought of being associated with these "christians." As far as offering actionable insights, I'd say my current church rates as poor. I say this because they clearly do not understand the Bible. As far as a future church, the prospects once again are "poor" since most every modern church is designed according to the same cookie cutter pattern as any other. It is basically a pagan temple built upon tithing extracted either by enticing the congregation with the promise of wealth and/or with the fear of sending them to "hell" if they don't. I am not sure what church has to offer me or what I can contribute since I am 99% certain that most any church will not want to hear about how their church is un-biblical. tl, dr: Churches are not based upon the teachings of the Bible and no one in a church will want to even entertain this idea.

I've been doing some research on my next church and am finding that as I explore in the neighboring metro area, my options expand enormously if I am willing to drive 45 minutes to 1.5 hours. This sounds unreasonable, but if I double up I can visit multiple churches on the same day AND perhaps do some sight seeing, visit a nice restaurant and go hiking later in the afternoon. I used to drive and travel extensively early 2020 and prior and I stopped doing that for the past couple of years so it almost seems like a hassle to drive rather than an opportunity and adventure like I did before! Time to load up some audiobooks and podcasts while I road trip! What is the longest you are willing to drive/travel for a great church?