bukeye2745

It's all a big mess, I agree. I pray Yahshua Messiah returns soon.

Amen?

Jen

Amen Constant!!

Love those great men and women. Very brave souls!

God bless them all. I have a very dear friend in the ARNG and I pray for him all the time. He has not gone anywhere yet though so I'll keep praying he doesn't. He's a single daddy with 2 beautiful girls.

God bless!!

I did vote for Bush because I did not want someone in charge of this country that is perfectly ok with abortion but thinks the death penalty should be abolished.

I also did not care for his wife. Don't get me wrong, I'm very "out spoken" like she is but I think she's just out right rude.

As far as your belief in God, I can not really give you any advice. Scientists are wonderful people and they do a good job utilizing what God gave them to cure diseases and what not but only you can decide if you believe He is real. I know in my heart He is. My life has been so incredibly blessed since I started doing what I'm supposed to be doing that I couldn't possibly give that credit else where. Before I was baptized and realized how much I need Him my life was a freekin mess and in constant turmoil. I pray that you come back to your Father because He loves you.

Jen

Yer most welcome Caroline!

I love that part about Satan's first lie. When I first heard that in church it was a real eye opener for me. It already made sense but to see how far back it starts is a huge slap in the face!!

Awesome post sister.

By the way, I see you live in SD. I visited there quite a few years ago. It's so beautiful there!

Blessings,

Jen

This has been a very good thread with much scripture posted that supports the fact that when we die we go to the grave.  We do not go immediately to heaven or hell.

If you still doubt this just read John 11.  Jesus himself said, "Our friend Lazarus sleeps, but I go that I may wake him up."

Martha said to Jesus, "I know that he will rise again in the resurrection at the last day."

Of course, there are many more examples that support this; much of which have been posted already.

Some of you are missing the point of why this is so important, to have a clear understanding of this issue.

What is the first lie Satan told?  "And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die."  Gen. 3:4  Why did Satan want the human race to believe that we have immortality?  Because Satan can deceive people with powerful miracles, sorcery, he and his angels can appear as angels of light.  He has been doing this since he deceived Adam and Eve.

It is one of the cornerstones of the devil's kingdom.  He has worked powerful miracles down through the ages through people who claim to receive their power from the spirits of the dead.

Satan invented the teaching that the dead are alive.  Re-incarnation, channeling, communication with spirits, spirit worship, and the "undying soul" are all inventions of Satan, with one aim -- to convince people that when you die you are not really dead.  When people believe that the dead are alive, "spirits of devils, working miracles" (Rev. 16:14) and posing as spirits of the dead will be able to deceive and lead them astray. 

That is why in the end times, which we are living in, we are seeing an increase in spiritualism, channeling, communicating with the dead, etc.  Many people are lead astray by this false doctrine.  And that's why it is so important to know exactly what scripture says. 

In Chirst,

CarolineS

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Jen,

Its just so much easier to debase then to defend. Who cares if we are told to be ready to give a reason for the faith that we have, or that we are supposed to correct in meekness, and with love.

Sorry Jen, but you will find little of that stuff here.

God Bless,

Robert

P.S. On a side note I think I would know you from Adam.

Thanks Robert.

You're right, I don't look like an Adam

Wrong, wrong, and wrong.

I don't belong to the way or JW. Don't make assumptions when you don't know me from Adam.

If it makes you feel better to call me a cult you go right ahead friend because I could care less!

Blessings,

Jen

Besides all that, we HAVE to leave this earth at some point, because this entire planet, as well as the current heaven, is going to be scrapped and God is going to start over from scratch.

Revelation 21:1 - And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

Because the body has not risen...

We have happen to us what happened to Jesus.

Jesus dies on the cross, his Spirit went to the Father,His body went into the grave.

DSmith,

Please show me where scripture says Yeshua's spirit when to heaven immediately after death. If it's because of "he gave up the ghost" I don't think that means that.

Paul didn't mind dying because he knew the next thing he would see would be Yeshua.

If death is so great than why do our bodies fight it off until we no longer can. If I knew that I was going straight to heaven I would be praying that God make my life as short as possible. Why would anyone want to live in this miserable world? We would all be like the terrorists gladly willing to die because of the promise of paradise and 70 virgins or whatever craziness they teach.

Seriously though, if you really think about it, what I suggest and SD also really isn't so terrible because you really won't know any different. The fact that we will all rise together won't be such a bad homecoming will it?

I don't think we deserve the label cult because of that.

Not that you said that but it was thrown out there earlier.

Blessings,

Jen

Is not the fact that three of the disciples were wide awak and observed Jesus talking with two old testament prophets who were long dead proof enough that we go directly to be with the Lord?

Luke 9:28 And it came to pass about an eight days after these sayings, he took Peter and John and James, and went up into a mountain to pray. 29 And as he prayed, the fashion of his countenance was altered, and his raiment was white and glistering. 30 And, behold, there talked with him two men, which were Moses and Elias: 31 Who appeared in glory, and spake of his decease which he should accomplish at Jerusalem. 32 But Peter and they that were with him were heavy with sleep: and when they were awake, they saw his glory, and the two men that stood with him.

Why did the Lord do this? Sending saints back to allow the disciples to see them? Because earlier in the chapter we are told that some were saying that Jesus was Elijah or John, or maybe even Moses, but the Lord showed the disciples that they were already glorified and in heaen! Their presence was so awesome that, like John in Revelation, Peter began to mispeak and declare that they ought to make tabernacles for the departed saints! Which brought a sharp rebuke from the heavens as God The Father himself rebuked Peter!

Silly me.... I thought Jesus paid the price for our sins with His death on the cross and that His sacrifice was enough.   

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He did but that is for the second death. Our reward of everlasting life with the Father and His Son. We all must die and see corruption because of Adam and Eve but when Yeshua returns if you hear His voice then you will raise and be with Him in the Kingdom. If you don't, you will raise at the end of the 1000 years for the Great White Throne Judgement and be judged by God.

Blessings,

Jen

The punishment that we receive because of what Adam and Eve did in the garden is death.

We all have to die that first death because of sin.

If we don't really die but we go straight to the Almighty, then what kind of punishment is that?

Jen

The lake of fire is not eternal torment. It is death period. It's the second death for those who do not raise in Messiah.

The day cometh, that shall burn as an oven...shall burn them up, saith the Lord of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch. Mal 4:1

The wicked shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death. Rev 21:8

Thou shalt make them as a fiery oven...the fire shall devour them. Psa 21:9

They shall be destroyed for ever Psa 92:7

Is not destruction to the wicked? Job 31:3

Speaking of the resurrection

Every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people Acts 3:23

In other words, if you don't rise when Yeshua comes, you don't rise until judgement and then you will be destroyed.

Jen

It's ok dude. But from you saying that and that only leads me to believe you were not being nice. At least that's what I'm used to on most forums. Sorry if I misunderstood.

I'm pretty sure they agree with my beliefs on heaven.

By the way, I'm a dudette.

For the second or third time....I'm not a JW

I do not believe that Yeshua was an angel. OK?!

Yes isnt his similar to what Jesus said to the thief on the cross, that thay day he would be with him in heaven? Nothing delayed.

Mark,

Yeshua said "I tell you this, today you will be with me in paradise"

or did He say "I tell you this today, you will be with me in paradise"

You could look at it both ways could you not?

We won't know until then because there was no punctuation in the Hebrew text so we don't know why that comma was put where it was do we?

Hopefully you see my point.

Blessings,

Jen

Luke 9:30-31 And, behold, there talked with him two men, which were Moses and Elias: 31 Who appeared in glory, and spake of his decease which he should accomplish at Jerusalem.

This, to me, is a vision of the Kingdom. Future.

Blessings,

Jen

I believe when we die, we sleep. Scripture is very clear to me on this.

All the OT talks about people "sleeping". Not raising to heaven. Hell is not eternal torment anyway. Hell is the grave. Messiah was in hell but it could not keep Him. Even in the NT it is very clear. Lazarus was not dead he was asleep (John 11:11) Yeshua is the first fruits of them that slept. The only one ascended into heaven.

1 Thes 4:14 them also which sleep in Jesus.

It really doesn't matter because if you are His then how close are you to seeing his face? The span of your lifetime because just like when you sleep, time will be not known to you. The next thing you will know is you will either be waking up to be with Yeshua or you will be waking up for the Great White Throne judgement.

Hopefully the first of the two.

Blessings,

Jen

IMO it's all idolatry. I choose not to take part at all. Not that I judge anyone who does, it's just not for me anymore.

Blessings,

Jen

Praise ye The Lord.

Blessed is the man that feareth the Lord.

That delighteth greatly in His commandments.

His seed shall be mighty upon earth:

The generation of the upright shall be blessed.

I'm ashamed to say that it was mainly fear that finally got my dumb head straight.

There is also a series of Left Behind books, for teenagers. I started to read some of these 2 years ago, but gave up, because I had to pay for them myself .

I DID enjoy them though!

You can get any of these books on Amazon used and very cheap or go to a half priced book store.

I actually am not pre-trib but I loved the books.

I've read them all. I love books though and they did help me with my walk early on because they helped me realize how important a relationship with God is because I didn't have one.

Jen

IMO God chose us all from the beginning. Otherwise why would He have created children? But He at one point grieved in His heart that He had made man on earth (Gen 6:6). Therefore He knows what will be in the end and knows who will make it and who won't but we don't. We have our own choices to make if we want to be in the Kingdom or not.

Blessings,

Jen

I'm not a JW first of all.

I never said a lot of the stuff you said either.

The dead in Christ shall rise first, along with those that are still alive who will meet with Him in the clouds and go to where it is that He will rule. David's throne.

The White Throne Judgement isn't until after the 1000 year reign and that's when the rest will rise and be judged along with those that live and still reject Him during the 1000 years. They will be annihilated.

That is how I see it.

Ok. Now you can go ahead with more sarcasm but unless you can prove to me scripturally that there are people up in heaven throwing pennies down then I don't need the sarcasm.

God bless.

Jen

This is what I have to say on the subject. I might add I have never touched it.

The marijuana smokers in my life:

My father..smoked a lot when he and my mother were married. Did some other drugs as well. I know he was an addict because when he was home he wouldn't do them and he was very grouchy. All I listened to was yelling and cursing when I was growing up.

My step-father...did smoke at home. Would wake me in the middle of the night beating the living crap out of my mom. Very mean and evil with my young brother.

My brother...still smokes it. He is the moodiest person I have ever know. When he doesn't have it he is soooo mean and nasty. I basically don't call him because I never know what mood he will be in and I won't deal with it.

My best friend...she is still my best friend but for a while she wanted nothing to do with me because of my feelings towards drugs. She now has her own practice of counceling teen drug users.

I think I got my point across.

Blessings!!

Jen

If all else fails, ask yourself if you would do it with Jesus sitting across from you...

Keith....this is my favorite!

Hey!

I know I'm from Ohio but I have loved the Steelers since I was about 6!!

Love them always will!!

Jen