ExactionForce10

The question I asked only requires a one word answer, YES, or NO. Does God, according to the gospels, ONLY care about how much a person puts in the collection plate at church or tithes, whatever you want to call it? It's a very straightforward question, does God ONLY care about how much money a person gives to a church when deciding who is blessed or not, YES OR NO? Can any of you answer that straightforward question and honestly answer it yes or no?

Yes I did.

Again, the gospels say this: In Hebrews 8 it says: By calling this covenant "new," he has made the first one obsolete Merriam-Webster dictionary defines obsolete as: no longer in use or no longer useful. That's what the word OBSOLETE means. God said that too, so I think we are supposed to follow it. We are under a new covenant through faith in Jesus Christ, not by works of the law as in the old testament. Yes, it's upsetting to me, because I've heard prosperity gospel ministers preaching that ALL you have to do to please God is tithe, that's it, but that is false, clearly that is NOT what GOD said: The Parable of the Pharisee and the Tax Collector 9 To some who were confident of their own righteousness and looked down on everyone else, Jesus told this parable: 10 “Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. 11 The Pharisee stood by himself and prayed: ‘God, I thank you that I am not like other people—robbers, evildoers, adulterers—or even like this tax collector. 12 I fast twice a week and give a tenth of all I get.’ 13 “But the tax collector stood at a distance. He would not even look up to heaven, but beat his breast and said, ‘God, have mercy on me, a sinner.’ 14 “I tell you that this man, rather than the other, went home justified before God. THAT is what GOD said about it in the new covenant, the one that he has not made obsolete. You see, God did NOT say. "good , you tithe 10% so you are alright with me my good and faithful servant," but that is exactly what I have heard prosperity gospel preachers preach, and not just one. That following "the law" of God and tithing 10% makes you "right with God" and that is the only "faith" that God cares about. The TRUTH is, that is the only thing THEY are interested in, and the only thing that THEY really care about, BUT that is NOT what Jesus said, as shown in that Bible verse. Just be honest and say that then. I'm just saying if these preachers want you to believe them so bad and believe the Bible so bad, they should not be out there misrepresenting what the Bible actually says. I'm not against tithing, and never have been against it (that is a straw man argument). I am against supporting churches that preach a false gospel. I have also heard prosperity ministers threatening people to try and coerce them into tithing, YES I have witnessed that. I've even heard the minister in my original post say, in church, "they don't want to join this ministry because I make them tithe." Another false statement and straw man argument. I wouldn't join that ministry because he is preaching a false gospel, THAT IS WHY. And I heard him threatening people, saying that if they don't tithe, blah blah blah threats. THAT IS THE DEFINITION OF EXTORTION, FOLKS. That's all I'm saying. Look it up.

Dude, once anyone starts reading from the old covenant to me, they become suspect. Why? Because that is NOT gospel, that is not the gospel of Lord Jesus where all the glory is now. Those statements are backed up by gospel. 2 Cor 14 18 14 But their minds were made dull, for to this day the same veil remains when the old covenant is read. It has not been removed, because only in Christ is it taken away. 15 Even to this day when Moses is read, a veil covers their hearts. 16 But whenever anyone turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away. 17 Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom. 18 And we all, who with unveiled faces contemplate the Lord’s glory, are being transformed into his image with ever-increasing glory, which comes from the Lord, who is the Spirit. Which actually brings to mind another problem I had with the prosperity gospel church that I have been referring to here, that is, they spend more time reading from the old covenant than from the gospels of Christ. I suppose that's because the old covenant is the one that talks about tithing being "law" and all that. Since that is all they care about, that is all they really want to talk about, so they read from the old covenant a lot. By contrast, they only seem interested in that which is material, meaning money and the things money can buy. I've noticed that a lot of the posts here are full of quotes from the old covenant. You will notice that any Bible quotes I posted in here are from the gospels.

Okay, great, then you're agreeing with me that type of behavior for a minister is inappropriate. From your earlier comments, I did not get that impression, but it looks like we agree on that, great :) Looks like you're agreeing that some of that theology is incorrect, too. Great, then we agree on that. I'm not against people giving to help the poor, I'm completely for that. Don't get it twisted. But hey, if churches now are preaching that you don't have to believe in God and you don't have to be a good person to be blessed by God, and that ONLY thing you have to do is tithe, then they shouldn't be surprised if that's exactly what they get. If they are fine with it, then so am I. I'm not being sarcastic, either. I'm just telling you what they preach in some prosperity gospel churches now, and what some evangelical type Christians are trying to hold people to out here. If you don't like it, don't blame me for it, blame them. I'm just telling you what they say. If them preaching that kind of theology actually turns Christians into people who don't believe in God anymore and who aren't good people anymore, and who are just in it for the money honey, I guess that's just part of what comes along with that kind of theology.

Sure, but people who have other dogmas and who may have power because they are connected to people in power can and do impose their particular dogma onto others. It happens in the Middle East all the time. Nothing about that statement should be considered controversial because we all know it is true. It's true that in some countries you cannot be elected to government unless you are a certain religion and hold to certain religious belief systems. It's also true that in some countries only the government "approved" religion is allowed to build places of worship and even pray in public. If you happen to believe in another religion, the government says you have to practice it in private. In some of those same countries, if you want to become a citizen, you have to convert to the state approved religion. You have to then wonder, how many people in those countries really don't give a hoot about those religions? Surely a good percentage of them just pretend to be that religion so that they are not persecuted. The Bible does say that God gave us free will to do as we chose, that's why people can sin and do terrible things if they choose to, even in the name of a religion. So God is not controlling us like puppets. People on the other hand quite often try to do that, and FORCE their particular religious dogma onto others. History shows that to be absolutely true. Nothing I wrote here should be considered controversial.

Wow, learning so much good bible from this forum, and the prosperity gospel. I’m god, there is no God but me, I'm also Equal to Jesus because of my tithes.

Out of all the supposedly thousands of people on this forum, I’m just having a convo with basically one guy. Something is not genuine about that at all. So in your opinion, it's okay for a minister to say that " he dares to think that he's equal to Jesus?" Great, so money is god, I'm god, and I can think that I’m equal to Christ, and love money money money money. I love money I love money i love money, and there is no other god but me. And God doesn't care if I'm a good person or sin all the time, he only cares about how much money I tithe. I'm equal to Jesus, that is a good thing to think and preach, and believe. I can't wait to tell the kids that they are equal to Jesus because of their tithes and that they don’t have to believe in God or go to church, all they have to do is send in checks of 10% to the local church, and they are right with God. And it's okay for them to be lovers of money. Okay, I’m learning a lot of good Bible from this forum In your estimation, it's okay for a preacher to be shouting "I love money, I love money" in church because the bible says "love of money is bad?" What, then, would he have to say before you believe that he is a lover OF money. Now we are playing word games that hold no water. later

Glad you bought that up. My Bible says it like this: 2 Corinthians 9:5 I have therefore though it necessary to exhort the brethren to go to you in advance and to get ready this promised contribution, so that it may be as a matter of bounty, and not extortion. "As a matter of bounty," that is implying that the more one has the more one should give, it is NOT exacting a certain pre-determined amount from people as they had to under the Old Testament Law. 2 Corinthians 9:7 Let each one give according to as he has determined in his heart, not grudgingly or from compulsion. That couldn't be more clear, It's stating that each one should give according to what's in their heart, and following from verse 9:5 "as a matter of bounty" which means the more bountiful you are the more you can and should give, NOT a predetermined exaction of a specific amount. If it was a specific amount then it would not be worded this way, it would just say everyone bring 10%, like it did under the Old Testament Law. Matthew 6:24 “No one can serve two masters; for either he will hate the one and love the other, or else he will be loyal to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and mammon. I'm glad you brought that up too, because that said same Prosperity gospel minister would be up in his church, on camera, YELLING loudly "I LOVE MONEY, I LOVE MONEY, I LOVE MONEY, I LOVE MONEY" over and over like some lunatic. That was another reason I said to myself, I can't support this lunacy" and stopped watching it. That is absolutely what he did. So if he LOVES MONEY, then he is telling you the master he serves, right? You asked: Do they typically teach it in that "church", or did one of their ministers simply say it a few times? If it is taught typically, then they have elevated the issue out-of-balance. And as far as saying we are gods/ "I AM god," that was not just a one-off. For them, it is a central part of their theology. They would tell everyone watching to write "I AM god" in the chat room, and if you did, they would compliment you and say "that's right, very good" and if you didn't, they would act like you were doing something wrong. They would say, "God doesn't mind you saying that. They would CONSTANTLY be saying "I am god" and exhort people to say that all the time. Which brings to mind another Bible verse where Jesus was teaching: The Parable of the Pharisee and the Tax Collector. 9 He also told the following parable to some people who prided themselves about their own righteousness and regarded others with contempt: 10 “Two men went up to the temple to pray. One was a Pharisee and the other was a tax collector. 11 The Pharisee stood up and said this prayer to himself: ‘I thank you, God, that I am not like other people—greedy, dishonest, adulterous—or even like this tax collector. 12 I fast twice a week and pay tithes on all my income.’ 13 “The tax collector, however, stood some distance away and would not even raise his eyes to heaven. Rather, he kept beating his breast as he said, ‘God, be merciful to me, a sinner.’ 14 This man, I tell you, returned to his home justified, whereas the other did not. For everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, but the one who humbles himself will be exalted.” That's just like they were in that prosperity gospel church. That minister actually said that he thought "he was better than other people" because he tithed, and that whole thing about saying they are gods, isn't that exalting yourself? I mean, they even taught that you should NOT be humble. Yes, they taught that. That fool even had the nerve to say that "he dares to think that he's equal to Jesus." I'm not kidding you, this fool said that up in his church sermon. So if you want to continue trying to minimize this stuff and say "it's just semantics," then I'm going to have to think that maybe you're really into that stuff yourself and that you're jusr trolling me. My Bible says: "You shall have no other God's before me" period. It doesn't say after that, buuuut it's okay if you mean god with a little g, LOL. And every time anyone called anything or anyone a god besides our Lord, God was not happy about that at all. Now that he's shown blatant disregard for what Jesus taught in the gospels, Now I’m supposed to take that guy's advice on what is biblically correct. Really????

Thanks for the reply, hope that actually happens. Believe me, I have no problem with tithing, I'm actually passionate about giving to help the poor. It is, however, important to me to not support any church that I feel is preaching a false gospel. Isn't that supposed to matter too? I mean, that place was all wrong scripturally, IMO. I mean, dude up there saying that he doesn't disclose what he does with all the money that his church brings in because, "it's none of your business (he actually said those exact words), and you should just trust him." Huh??? Please show me the scripture that says we are just supposed to blindly trust a minister because he tells you to. I challenge you to find it. And you didn't really address any of my other questions. For example: is it okay for Christians to go around saying that they are gods, just because they mean gods with "a little g?" Isn't that blasphemy? If you think not, then please explain to me how that is not blasphemy. Please explain to me how that is not breaking the first commandment. Don't get me wrong, I’m not saying to not tithe, I am tithing right now and things have NOT suddenly gotten totally good for me the way the prosperity gospel preachers promise. In fact, it seems like some things have gotten worse, much worse. What about that?

This is a serious question, and I would like some serious theologically correct answers here, please. I;'m just trying to get all this stuff figured out. I was watching some "prosperity gospel" preacher online and that church was saying that the ONLY THING God cares about is your tithing 10%, that that is ALL you have to do to get the "favor" of God and be blessed. They were teaching that God doesn't even care if you're a good person or if you really even believe in God, that He only responds to your tithing 10%. Is that true? For example, if you were poor yourself and were not tithing 10% is it true that God won't care about you and bring you blessings because you are not tithing 10%? When I read the Bible, it seems to say that the poor ARE BLESSED automatically because they are poor, and that those that have are supposed to give them money so that they won't be poor anymore. Also, that prosperity gospel church was teaching that we are gods, and it's okay to say that you are a god as long as it's god with a little g. We are "little gods' with a little g (whatever that means?). That is what they teach. They also teach that "money is god" and it's okay to go around saying that money is god. I wonder if the people in Ukraine would say money is God when the Russian bombs paid for with money are being dropped on their town? Is that correct theology according to the gospels? This is a serious theology question, because they are teaching this in their prosperity gospel churches. Is that proper theology?