Lionroot

First of all I do not "promote polygamy" per se, though I understand why you might think so. Second, I could chat about what we agree on, but that would get boring fast. Third, I enjoy making people think about what they are reading in the scriptures. Fourth, I think this subject reveals what Christians have by and large forgotten. For example: God hates divorce, yet Christians divorce with as much or more regularity than the world. (According to barna.com) God requires men to live holy lives, and take responsibility for their women (wives) and children. Men are to be leaders in their homes, but men are absent in mind and or body from the home. Hosea writes it best: "I will not punish your daughters when they turn to prostitution, nor your daughters-in-law when they commit adultery, because the men themselves consort with harlots and sacrifice with shrine prostitutes

That was a funny commercial. Thanks for your prayers, but in my house I write the "honey do list".

So let me ask you, do we have more or less liberty under Grace?

You do know that a concubine is a wife, right? Not all wives are concubines, but all concubines are wives in a Biblical context anyway. If what your saying is true than half of the tribes of Israel were illigitimate. As such the would have been excluded from the Israelite community. (Yes the English word has other meanings as well, but lets limit the to the Biblical context) Deu 23:2 A bastard shall not enter into the congregation of the LORD; even to his tenth generation shall he not enter into the congregation of the LORD. ...but we know these kids did enter the congregation of the LORD. God Bless, Robert

Now I think your just splitting hairs. Straining at gnat, when the simple answer is right there. "God made concessions"? God is making concessions now? God doesnt make concessions. When he closes a door, it stays closed, and when he opens one it stays open. He is soveriegn over all. Actually it is part of the "biblical pattern" thats why we are having this discussion. If it wasn't in the Bible it just would not be an issue. If God had made it a sin, it would not be an issue. If he didn't deal with polygamists the way he didnt deal with the ungodly, then we wouldnt have the examples we do, and it wouldn't be an issue. The truth is of the holy men of the Bible, that we know about their marital status, most of them are polygynist. Does God perfer polynist, or was he blessing these men that way? Which came first the polygynist or God's favor? In the case of the man after God's own heart, it was God's favor. This is simply not in evidence. This has not been proven scripturally. Its a fine opinion, but let see some scripture. Where is the scripture? Your not argueing from silence are you? Yes, I guess you are arguing from silence. Well lets just talk about what the Bible does say. Shall we? Men arent blessed for marriage, they are however blessed for obedience. Disobedience would disqualify them from such blessings. God Bless, Robert

Haven't you read: God listened to Leah, and she became pregnant and bore Jacob a fifth son. Then Leah said,

Man's law is only against Godly marriage. Man's law doesn't care if you have a mistress. Man's law doesn't care if you have a dozen "babies momma's" Man's law doesn't care about adultery, or harlotry. No! Man's law is only against God's law in this matter. If a man takes another wife, and provides for her food, clothing, and marital rights then they want to put you in jail. Its sad but today's law turns most of the patriarchs into criminals... God Bless, Robert

Only prophets have the right to reveal God's intention, and then only if He shares it with them, so we can only speculate. The evidence indicates that He doesn't distinguish between the two forms of marriage the way we do...in fact the Bible never separates them. They are just marriages. Without scriptures your just stating your opinion, and that

You do understand that "romantic" love, or marriage for love is a relatively new concept? And a pagan invention at that. The scripture says that he who get a wife receives favor from God. There is no scripture that says it doesn

Butero, I agree. I love Doctor James Dobson. To hear him talk you would think that he is much more afraid of polygyny than he is of Homosexual marriage. Appearantly he think Abraham, Moses, Jacob and these other men were worse than homos...not a great way to present the scriptures.... God Bless, Rober

Hey Shiloh, Your comment sidesteps the question. Do you think that men of God, or a friend of God, or a man after God's own heart saw women as chattle? I am very interested in how you see these men. God Bless, Robert

The Talmud is not at issue here. Jesus spoke against the oral tradition that became the Talmud. As a Christian it is not authorative to me. God Bless, Robert

Is that how the men of God viewed women?

I am not either. As I wrote before God didnt wink at the Hebrews he told them clearly what He expected. Its nice to know there are others who let the scripture speak for itself. God Bless, Robert

Paul was addressing pagans. God never winked at the sins of the Israelites.

So how is it that David was not accused of Adultery until he messed with Uriah's wife? The scripture says: So how can this be, seeing as you say such a man is "already commiting adultery"? After all God knew he had other wives, after all He gave them to David. It seems unlikely the LORD would have created an adulterous situation for David. Something to think about. God Bless, Robert

The first mention tent dwelling herdsmen, musicians, and also the use if brass and iron are all first mentioned in the same line of Cain. Does that besmirch these activities? Should we avoid such activities because they were first practiced by the desendants of Cain? And to follow that line of reasoning with monogamy... ...the first person to have only one wife brought sin and death into the world, and the next one was a murderer, who killed his own brother in cold blood. I think it is pretty clear that this just is not sound reasoning. God Bless, Robert

Greetings DOK, I understand exactly what you mean about Paul's writing. I struggled with this issue myself for many years. Like many Christians my first focus was on the words of Christ. (After all, isn't that why his words are highlighted.) When we do that we read his words out of context, and make a very natural mistake of creating context, usually from our own lives. God had been talking to men since the very beginning, so in away this is very much like catching the end of a conversation other people are having. There is a huge possibility for misunderstandings. Though to his Jewish listeners, they had an awareness of all that had come before. It reminds me of the old show, Threes Company. There was a repetitive gag where someone (usually Jack Tripper) would over hear the end of a conversation, misunderstand what's being said, and then create funny moments as they reacted to the other characters through their own misunderstandings, the hilarity would begin. We the viewer though had seen the whole show, and understood the misperception. Consider what Paul wrote to the Corinthians in the tenth chapter: Is it any wonder than that much of what Jesus said is quoted straight from the law and the prophets, the books we call the Old Testament? Paul did not write in a vacuum either. He was a Pharisee and had a strong foundation in the Law and the Prophets. It is no wonder that much of his writing is peppered with the OT scripture. He was already steeped in the Old Testament. He also taught the same Gospel. I make no attempt here to straighten out the specifics of your post, except to say that Paul was in complete agreement with Christ. Where you see a discrepancy you can be sure that there is a misunderstanding. Take care not to take interpretations of Paul as "gospel truth". Consider what Peter said about Paul: In my own walk it was the time spent reading all of the word that reconciled the differences that I had previously perceived. I hope that will help you. God Bless, Robert

Greetings Ted, I want to thank you. You have opened my eyes to something I had not seen before. Thats very true Ted. One of the things that can help us do that is context. Not just understanding the surrounding text but in this case I want you to consider the author. 1Ti 3:1 This is a true saying, If a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work. 1Ti 3:2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behavior, given to hospitality, apt to teach; 1Ti 3:3 Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous; 1Ti 3:4 One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity; 1Ti 3:5 (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?) 1Ti 3:6 Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil. 1Ti 3:7 Moreover he must have a good report of them which are without; lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil. You, as have others, have supposed that the qualifications for Bishop and Deacon were ideals that all should aspire to. The problem with this is that not only did Paul not live to this standard (consider what you bolded), he discouraged people from marrying at all and thus meeting the standard. <doh> "It is good for them to stay unmarried, as I am. "- 1Cor 7:8b Do you suppose now that he did not want people to be Bishops and Deacons? No, rather he knew that not all would be Bishops and Deacons, even as he himself was not, and did not qualify to be one. Thanks again Ted. God Bless, Robert

Greetings angels4u, Show me one bible verse where God told anybody to marry "only 1 wife", many men did have one wife but did God gave them their blessing ? Seriously, I need an example, of what you consider a blessing? God Bless, Robert

"Your desire will be for your husband, and he will rule over you." Gen 3:16b "They were submissive to their own husbands, like Sarah, who obeyed Abraham and called him her master. " 1 Peter So who writes the "honey do" lists in a Bible believing home, led by a Godly man? Just a thought, God Bless, Robert

You should tremble to debase the actions of God in this way. (Ezekiel 23) It is a shame to you and upon your head, and all those who stood by and said nothing. How dare you insult a friend of God! (Isaiah 41:8, James 2:23) Is there truly no more fear of the LORD? May He forgive you. Robert

I wrote a post Christianity.com and in it I qouted an article from the Barna website. I encourage you to read it as well. read this Here is the excerpt I used: With odds like that there has to be someone for you, unless of course your a female. In which case your fighting an uphill battle in the church today. Never give up, God does have someone special for you. Get in His word, keep your eye on the LORD, and he will take care of that need. God Bless, Robert

Greetings other one, This scripture is great for self evaluation. I am not sure how I would apply it toward anyone else. How can I know what a man believes in his heart? For it is written: These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me. God Bless, Robert This pretty much does it for me........ <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Greetings DIME Ministries, I have read and enjoyed many of your post. They are without a doubt some of the most well reasoned ones I read here on WorthyBoard. I have to ask you the same questions I had for Leonard. Could you expound on your thought here? God Bless, Robert