NickyLouse

29 minutes ago, loverofhumanity said:

I need to consult with Christians if they can assist me as they have a lot of knowledge. I don’t belong to any Christian organisation but I would hopefully sacrifice  my life for Jesus if required to do so.

Well here's the problem loverofhumanity, there is no need to sacrifice yourself for Jesus. The Bible states that sinners need to make atonement for their sins. However, a sinner cannot atone for their sin. It also states that we have all sinned and therefore we all need atonement. Atonement simply means that we have reconciliation with God. Now Jesus' sacrifice was the ultimate sacrifice and we should all be so very grateful for it. However, He only asks one thing for our salvation and that is to believe that His sacrifice did indeed take away our sin so that we can be reconciled to God.

One other minor point that you will want to remember is that Jesus wasn't merely "of" God... He "is" God.

24 minutes ago, Who me said:

Welcome to the forum,

               You will have to check wioth the moderators of this forum about how long you can post here.

I am interested in the contradiction in your views.

You say you believe that Jesus is of God, yet you are not a Christian.

Do you have a reason for this?

A person can believe as loverofhumanity wrote and yet not accept that the atoning sacrifice of Jesus is sufficient for salvation.

14 hours ago, Elihoenai said:

We are using the word "Obey" to mean, do, keep, perform and practice. Are you doing/performing all the Law of Moses? If yes, you would be the first person that I have heard declare such a thing. Even Jews according to the flesh, confess that they are not able to practice all the Laws of Moses.

When you say your congregation agrees with all that, does that mean you practice the things listed? If it is not secret, what congregation are you a member of?

 

Leviticus 18:3-4 King James Version (KJV)

3 After the doings of the land of Egypt, wherein ye dwelt, shall ye not do: and after the doings of the land of Canaan, whither I bring you, shall ye not do: neither shall ye walk in their ordinances.

4 Ye shall do my judgments, and keep mine ordinances, to walk therein: I am the Lord your God.

Our congregation, Arrowhead Messianic Congregation in Peoria, AZ, does not want to put stumbling blocks before anyone and so it is only to our edification to follow certain laws (and I admit wholeheartedly that I do not know where the line is drawn on each one). We do still observe the moedim (feasts), but not precisely as it is prescribed. We are asked not to bring shellfish or pork to our onegs (potlucks). Of course, we teach that all of the commandments given at Mount Sinai should be followed to the best of our ability and we also know that to love Adonai and to love our neighbor will accomplish those requirements.

We believe that the animal sacrifices have been suspended until the temple in Heaven comes when the New Jerusalem is established in the millennial reign at which time the sacrifices will be re-instituted. The reason that it will be required then is for the nations that have made it through the great tribulation and whereas faith has become sight of Yeshua and it is no longer possible to simply have faith by believing. Faith will be recognized by what is done.

I am not an official representative of our congregation and I am not certain that I hold to all that is taught, but I think this is partly what is believed by the teachers and elders there.

1 minute ago, OldCoot said:

The next time Yeshua returns to this planet will be with His bride.

Okay. I think I see the parable as when believers are called to the marriage supper of the Lamb. However, it seems odd that they would be called to it since they are the bride too. Interesting discussion.

Has anyone been taught of multiple raptures? My rabbi teaches that there will be a firstfruits (pretrib) rapture and an ongoing rapture for those who are martyred (re: Revelation 6:9-11) as well as a rapture/resurrection that occurs at the last trumpet (re: Rev 11, 1 Corinthians 15:51-52) in addition to the resurrection at the end of the millennium (re: Rev 20:5).

It may be difficult for me to convey all that he teaches. If you have heard of this and have found insight one way or another, I appreciate your response.

On 5/25/2019 at 10:44 PM, OldCoot said:

No, by the very nature of being part of the redeemed, they are indeed included in the Body of Messiah / Bride of Messiah.  

The early part of Matthew 25 is not about the bride.  It is about virgins / bridesmaids.  Yeshua is not marrying a group of virgin brides from a selection of 10, only one and it is not any of these virgins.  When Yeshua returns with His bride, the wedding feast begins, in accordance to the traditional Hebrew ritual of the 1st century.  But the Hebrew people who have survived the GT period will be separated into those who will go into and partake of the wedding feast with Yeshua and His bride and go into the millennial kingdom and those who will not and be condemned.  The parable of the 10 virgins is related to the Hebrew people in general who will be separated by Yeshua as per Ezekiel 20.

Likewise later in Matthew 25, the nations are gathered and separated into the sheep and the goats based on how they treated the Hebrew people.  This is supported in Joel 3.

All who trust in Yeshua right up to the removal of the righteous are considered part of the bride of Yeshua.

 

Does He return "with" His bride or "for" His bride?

On 4/5/2019 at 9:04 AM, Marlene S said:

I have a question and it is very important to know what you think or what the answer is.

In the Scriptures, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob is referred to by several names. Just as in your post here we have the name Adonai, which actually means kingship. There is also the name Elohim, which means Jealousy. There is the name Yahweh, which means lordship, and the name Sabaoth, which means Deity. All these names are found in Scripture.

My questions is: are these names- Adonai, Elohim, Yahweh, different names for the God of Abraham, or are these names the names of  individual entities?

Can you provide an answer; it would be much appreciated. Thx, M.

https://hebrew4christians.com/Names_of_G-d/Adonai/adonai.html has a thorough explanation of "Adonai". I would copy and paste, but their site does not allow it. You can also find the other names you inquired about.

On 4/19/2019 at 4:46 PM, Elihoenai said:

Does any member on these forums know of Hebrew Roots Movement groups that meet the following criteria?

 

1) Accepts Yeshua Messiah/Christ.

2) Obeys the Law of Moses.

3) Does all of the Feast Days.  

4) Place equal value on Hebrew Scriptures/Old Testament and New Testament Scriptures.

5) Views Paul's Writings as being Inspired of Elohim.

 

Genesis 14:13 Young's Literal Translation (YLT)

13 And one who is escaping cometh and declareth to Abram the Hebrew, and he is dwelling among the oaks of Mamre the Amorite, brother of Eshcol, and brother of Aner, and they [are] Abram's allies.
 

With the exception of the word "obeys" in number 2, our congregation agrees with all of that. Shema is misunderstood to mean "obey" when it really means to listen and give careful consideration. Of course, once a thought is given careful consideration and there is no real chance of misunderstanding, then we would naturally follow to the best of our ability.

On 3/23/2019 at 4:31 PM, angels4u said:

Firstly, I love you all and have been finding some great points on both sides in this thread. It has given me much food for thought and I love that. Thank you all on both sides (if there are sides to choose) for your well thought out responses.

As for my congregation, I want to point out by highlighting in yellow, things that are not necessarily true or that I have no knowledge whether it is true or not; and in red those things that are definitely not true from the early response from www.gotquestions.org that is a great resource. Again, as far as my congregation is concerned and to the best of my own understanding, these are my responses.

Answer: The premise of the Hebrew Roots movement is the belief that the Church has veered far from the true teachings and Hebrew concepts of the Bible. The movement maintains that Christianity has been indoctrinated with the culture and beliefs of Greek and Roman philosophy and that ultimately biblical Christianity, taught in churches today, has been corrupted with a pagan imitation of the New Testament gospels.

Those of the Hebrew Roots belief hold to the teaching that Christ's death on the cross did not end the Mosaic Covenant, but instead renewed it, expanded its message, and wrote it on the hearts of His true followers. They teach that the understanding of the New Testament can only come from a Hebrew perspective and that the teachings of the Apostle Paul are not understood clearly or taught correctly by Christian pastors today. Many affirm the existence of an original Hebrew-language New Testament and, in some cases, denigrate the existing New Testament text written in Greek. This becomes a subtle attack on the reliability of the text of our Bible. If the Greek text is unreliable and has been corrupted, as is charged by some, the Church no longer has a standard of truth.

Although there are many different and diverse Hebrew Roots assemblies with variations in their teachings, they all adhere to a common emphasis on recovering the "original" Jewishness of Christianity. Their assumption is that the Church has lost its Jewish roots and is unaware that Jesus and His disciples were Jews living in obedience to the Torah. For the most part, those involved advocate the need for every believer to walk a Torah-observant life. This means that the ordinances of the Mosaic Covenant must be a central focus in the lifestyle of believers today as it was with the Old Testament Jews of Israel. Keeping the Torah includes keeping the Sabbath on the seventh day of the week (Saturday), celebrating the Jewish feasts and festivals, keeping the dietary laws, avoiding the "paganism" of Christianity (Christmas, Easter, etc.), and learning to understand the Scriptures from a Hebrew mindset. They teach that Gentile Christians have been grafted into Israel, and this is one reason every born-again believer in Jesus the Messiah is to participate in these observances. It is expressed that doing this is not required out of legalistic bondage, but out of a heart of love and obedience. However, they teach that to live a life that pleases God, this Torah-observant walk must be part of that life.

The Hebrew Roots assemblies are often made up of a majority of Gentiles, including Gentile rabbis. Usually they prefer to be identified as "Messianic Christians." Many have come to the conclusion that God has "called" them to be Jewish and have accepted the theological position that the Torah (Old Testament law) is equally binding on Gentiles and Jews alike. They often wear articles of traditional Jewish clothing, practice Davidic dancing, and incorporate Hebrew names and phrases into their writing and conversations. Most reject the use of the name "Jesus" in favor of Yeshua or YHWH, claiming that these are the "true" names that God desires for Himself. In most cases, they elevate the Torah as the foundational teaching for the Church, which brings about the demotion of the New Testament, causing it to become secondary in importance and only to be understood in light of the Old Testament. The idea that the New Testament is faulty and relevant only in light of the Old Testament has also brought the doctrine of the Trinity under attack by many advocates of the Hebrew Roots beliefs.

Please don't give me no lectures. I am looking for help. I finally had courage to confess that I actually hate to go to church.

I never liked much. I am very close to God. I study the Bible, listen to sermons, praise God with hims but just

don't know of any church where I would like to be. Since the pastor of the church where I was a member retired I

can't find a HOME and I am lonely.

First of all, I hope this doesn't sound harsh. It's not meant to. Secondly, I considered replying privately, but there are others with the same sentiment as you.

Let me ask 2 simple questions:

1. What do you not like about church?

2. How are you serving our King?

"Hey, how are you doing? " "Are you a Christian?" And they respond, "Yes, I am." Should we never pursue the question ever again? Just because a person says they are a Christian. Should we just take them at their word? Do we have the right to explore the faith of another beyond their public profession? Example: Involving someone in the church as a leader or performer. Is it enough for them just to verbally say yes to the Are you a Christian question?

I am in agreement with a couple of responses here:

The problem with "labels" is that we assume that everyone means the same thing by them. I have known people from the Bahai faith that would identify themselves as Christians. I think it is better to ask questions that define what you think the label means. For example, rather than asking. "Are you a Christian?" ask something like, "Have you trusted in Jesus alone for your salvation?"

It is always good to agree on the definition of a word before we answer the question. I think that another good question to ask is, "How do you know that you're a Christian?" This leaves the floor wide open for them to give their opinion about what it means.

I think that once we are satisfied with the person's understanding of salvation and their profession as such, we believe them and trust them. As a Christian, they are to be held to a higher standard. When a Christian sins, it is to be addressed as Galatians6:1 says:

Brothers, if someone is caught in a sin, you who are spiritual should restore him gently.

Whereas the sins of an unbeliever need not be brought up. It is only important to convey to them that they have sinned against a holy God. Pick any sin... lying is usually one that everyone agrees on.

Involving someone in the Church as a leader would require theological knowledge, lifestyle questions, family questions and a defined process before one should be allowed to become a leader, I am assuming you are talking about a deacon or an elder? Scripture specifically lays out requirements for leadership, and it is quite a bit more than simply wanting to do it or saying you are a Christian.

The verse that comes to mind is 1 Timothy3:6

He must not be a recent convert, or he may become conceited and fall under the same judgment as the devil.

Murder is legal when it happens in the privacy of the womb where no one can see the violence happening.

but God sees...

I am guilty of betraying my wife's trust years ago. Then God revealed Himself to me and I am crucified with Christ. Although I know God forgives me, my wife never could. I confessed to her, apologized showing my true remorse over the pain I brought upon her and asked for her forgiveness.

The problem is that when I did not receive the forgiveness from her, it became my mission to use those guilty feelings to manipulate her into accepting Jesus herself. I thought that if only she knew and loved Jesus, she would be able to let go of the painful past, realizing how much she has been forgiven herself. Even though I did not manipulate her with forethought, it was a prideful sin that I was committing.

If you're not following this, imagine that my wife accepts Jesus one day. Her testimony is linked to the remorse and self-sacrifice that I have shown her. It almost places myself above the grace and sacrifice of Jesus. In my mind, her salvation would have been credited to me for all the blubbering and sacrifice that I was showing her.

Today I want to praise God for showing me the error of my way that truly did seem right in my eyes as I have spent the past 4 years bending over backwards trying to please her at every possible turn. While it is noble and Christlike to love our wife and always seek good for her, it must be accompanied with the proper intention. I confess that my intention was not always the best. My ploy was a sneak attack of passive aggressiveness rooted in bitterness over her unwillingness to forgive me.

Now we have been divorced for over 20 months and during the past 16 months it has been my mission to be there for her at any time. Even though it was her that sought the divorce, I have been abiding by 1Corinthians7:10-11, which says that if you do separate that you should remain unmarried as long as the possibility for reconciliation is there. And in spite of godly advice that showed me that this passage is intended for two believing spouses, I have been endeavoring to remain faithful to her.

So I praise God today, for His wisdom puts the wisest wisdom of man to shame. And He is patient with me and my superego. And I praise Him and worship Him for His loving kindness and mercy as He forgives me yet again and I am letting go of the guilt.

1 Cor 7:10-11

10 To the married I give this command (not I, but the Lord): A wife must not separate from her husband. 11But if she does, she must remain unmarried or else be reconciled to her husband. And a husband must not divorce his wife. This verse speaks of a wife leaving the husband but it certainly applies to the husband leaving the wife also.

As far as 1 Cor 7:10-11 is concerned, I believe it speaks to two believing persons, husband and wife, because of of verses 12-16 that follow after are instructions to any couple that have only one believer involved. I had a wife who left me. I was the believer... she was not. I, like you, was worried that I could never marry again and that I should hold out hoping for reconciliation. According to my pastor at the time, my wife was an unbeliever making it very clear to him and myself she wanted nothing to do with Christianity. Therefore according to 1 Cor 7:12-16, I was released from her in the eyes of God and free to marry again.

Thanks for your confirmation of what I was feeling was true. Our pastor spoke on 1Cor7:1-16 Sunday and he mentioned that v10-11 were indeed directed towards believers. As I mentioned earlier I have been hoping for reconciliation after my ex-wife recognizes her salvation through Jesus, our Lord and God. For the same reason you gave about v12-16 being addressed to unbelievers, my thoughts were in agreement. But I have learned not to trust my feelings in regard to what God is saying and instead rely strictly upon the truth.

So anyway now, my emotions are swinging again. On one hand, I am getting that feeling you get when a weight is lifted. On the other hand, I am suffering through those feelings of aloneness and separation that you get when you are first divorced.

I think there are so many wonderful signs that God loves us that we often times take them for granted. Did you ever marvel at how your eye sees? Or your ear hears? Or how when a seed sprouts the stem goes up and the roots go down. Or the properties of water? The list is endless. Miracles and wonders are all around.

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Nathele

bump... and an Amen

no. the believer was "loosed" by the unbeliever.

Do verses 1Cor7:10-11 not apply?

What about 1Cor. 7:15

God has called us to live in peace, Hunterpoet. Thank you for sharing that.

I have come to realize that God has not gifted me with singleness and I am sorrowful over 2Cor6:14-17 since I have hoped for reconciliation, but my sorrow is a consequence of my sin I will face. My greater grief is over the fact that I have lost what I consider my first and foremost ministry.

Hi nicky,

I take it that you are one of the parties involved.

Whatever you choose God will work out the detail "for your Good" (Rom 8:28) if you love Him and are called according to His purposes.

On the one hand, I feel more free to serve in His service as a single person and I could be much happier without the burden of waiting for reconciliation.

On the other hand, I hear God's command to deny myself very clearly, meaning that I should be obedient to 1Cor7:10-11 and remain unmarried.

By the way, at this time there is no interest in any other person by either of us.

no. the believer was "loosed" by the unbeliever.

Do verses 1Cor7:10-11 not apply?

This is not a poll.

Here's the scenario:

2 unbelievers are married. 1 of them receives faith in Jesus. The new Christian sinfully leaves the unbeliever. The Christian repents and tries to return, but is then rejected and ultimately is divorced by the unbeliever. The unbeliever wishes to maintain a friendly relationship, but currently does not want to remarry.

Here's the question:

Is the Christian obligated to remain unmarried as long as the possibility for reconciliation exists?

But is it not said in Genesis 19:24 "Then the LORD rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the LORD out of heaven" This was a direct retaliation to the people of Sodom and their wicked practices. For their blatant disregard for the word of the Lord they paid with their lives. For us to allow it now is in direct contrast of the Word and as such are we not ignoring the Word, which would damn ourselves along with the homosexuals?

The words of the Lord also tell us to be forgiving to those who sin, even such an evil sin as sodomy. We should not interfere with their sins of the flesh, as it is already to late to save them from themselves; God will do as he sees fit when they pass on to judgment, and they will atone for eternity. Instead, we should enlighten those who have not been tainted by the evils of the lustful ways of the homosexuals, and ensure that the union between man and woman is upheld in the house of the Lord, through law if we have to. For if we do the Lords work, and remove them from this plane, are we no better than them? By killing another man, do we not warrant eternal damnation as much as they do?

Welcome Isaiah!

I think I get what you are saying about not interfering with their sins. The heart of the unsaved sinner must be turned before any behavioral modifications have any bearing on their eternal souls. We would not want the unsaved person to believe that if they change their ways, they'll be guaranteed entry into Heaven. It is only by faith that we are saved.

However, I agree with OneLight about it never being too late as long as the person still is alive. There is no depth of which God cannot pull us out. I thank God He was patient with me and there would not be just a few that would have written me off... for sure.

14. Least Favorite Christmas song? Rockin' Around the Christmas Tree

I don't know how many times I have heard this dreadful song lately.

1. Wrapping paper or gift bags? both

2. Real tree or Artificial? none

3. When do you put up the tree? n/a

4. When do you take the tree down? n/a

5. Do you like eggnog? I think so

6. Favorite gift received as a child? I don't remember... funny huh?

7. Hardest person to buy for? ex-wife

8. Easiest person to buy for? nobody

9. Do you have a nativity scene? yes

10. Mail or email Christmas cards? sometimes mail

11. Worst Christmas gift you ever received? I don't remember

12. Favorite Christmas Movie? Little Drummer Boy

13. Christmas song(s) you like the most? Hark the Herald Angels Sing, Rose of Bethlehem, Joy to the World

14. Christmas song(s) you like the least? Santa Baby

15. Favorite thing to eat at Christmas? ham

16. Lights on the tree? n/a

17. Lights outside? no

18. Travel at Christmas or stay home? hometown

19. Can you name all of Santa's reindeer's? maybe

20. Angel on the tree top or a star? n/a

21. Open the presents Christmas Eve or morning? both

22. Most annoying thing about this time of the year? bad or tasteless decorations

23. Favorite thing about this time of the year? family gatherings

23. Favorite ornament theme or color? huh?

24. Favorite for Christmas dinner? clam chowder

25. What do you want for Christmas this year? a saved ex-wife... or if already saved, one who will say so

I haven't read all 46000 posts, but wonder what this thread is about.

God continues to hold a relationship together that was all but dead 2 years ago. I know it may be easier to maintain a relationship with someone who is not living with you, but when we were divorced 18 months ago, I gave up ever seeing or talking to her again. Today, we had a very nice time with my sister's family. God is constantly working and although I do not know if we will ever be remarried, I am better able to be a witness for Jesus to my ex-wife now. She is less offended by my witness and I sense that she is much more receptive to things of God. Please rejoice with me as I praise Jesus.

I find peace and rest in Hebrews 4.