Trust & Obey

For years I struggled and struggled with the sinful nature. And the more I fought it, the more it fought back. It was a continual battle that always left me with a sense of condemnation that God was disappointed with my efforts. But later on, when I finally decided to just simply look at what God

Another Christian made the following point:

Many/most(?)evolutionists will accept the proposition that Mars had a world wide flood, with either no evidence of water, or very little evidence of water, on the planet. And yet many/most(?) evolutionists will  scoff at the idea that the Earth experienced either a massive "localized" flood, or a world wide flood, as described in Genesis 7-8, despite the fact that  the Earth is covered with 2/3 water, and if all the mountains were pushed down and the ocean basins were lifted up, the whole earth would be covered again with water at least a mile and a half deep.

In light of all the water in recent days/months, I thought this may be of interest.

"Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD...." Isaiah 1:18

In Christ,

John M. Whalen

Find me geological proof of massive flooding in Australia please. Then find me geological proof of massive flooding in South America. Then cross reference them so that the date range lies within, ooh lets say 1000 years of each other.

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After you do it for Mars.

Amen. I love the analogy of the Jordan River vs. The Dead Sea. The Jordan River is filled with life. Whereas, the Dead Sea is completely devoid of life. The difference? The Dead Sea has not outlet.

We need to be vessels that God can move through, not merely move to.

Sister, the Church should be the place where you can feel at home and comfortable. There is absolutely nothing wrong with "interracial marriages." I don't even like the term "interracial" because I only believe in one race, and that's the human race.

God has made us all of one blood:

Act 17:26 And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;

Hi all, I started this thread about the NKJV and all my initial posts were deleted, yet many people seem to be interested in this topic.

I will post the links to three different articles I wrote myself (not copied and pasted from anyone else), which are the product of my own comparative studies.

What I find is that most present day Christians do not believe that The Bible (any bible) IS now the inerrant words of God.  The recent polls show this to be true.  I firmly believe that if the King James Bible is not the preserved, inerrant and inspired words of God, then there is no inerrant Bible or text in any language on this earth.

I do not believe that you have to be a KJB only in order to get saved at all.  The gospel is found in any version no matter how inferiour it may be.  This is not the question.  The central issue is this:  Is there an inerrant Bible somewhere on this earth today?  If so, which one is it?  I am convinced that it is the King James Holy Bible for many reasons.

Anyway, what I wanted to show through these three comparative studies I have made, is to show that the NKJV is not "just like the KJV but with updated language".  The NKJV is a perversion of the true words of God.  It is that simple, and I believe I can prove it.  However, the managers of this board apparently do not like for me to post my articles in their entirety.

So, here are the links.  The first one has to do with Is the NKJV the same as the King James Bible.  The second one is called Don't go on safari with a NKJV translator, and the third one shows some of the many examples that could be given of how the NKJV unnecessarily and for the worse changes many good Bible words, and how one NKJV edition varies from the other NKJV edition.

The central question is, Do  you believe The Bible IS the inerrant words of God?  If so, then please identify it for us so we can compare it to what we are presently using.  Is there an absolute, 100% true, written final authority for the words of God, or are we left with only conflicting, ballpark approximations of what God may or may not have said, and we can never be sure one way or another?

http://www.geocities.com/brandplucked/nkjvsm.html

http://www.geocities.com/brandplucked/safari.html

http://www.geocities.com/brandplucked/nkjvwords.html

God bless,

Will Kinney

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No english Bible is the inerrant Word of God. I am as much of a Bible-literalist as you'll find on this board (I'm sure others will agree). I believe that what the Bible says the Bible means.

But, it is important to note that the KJV is not inspired by God. Neither is the NKJV, NIV, NASB, NLT, or any other version.

God inspired the original manuscript writings. That means that not even the copies of the original manuscripts are inspired. That is how we have "copyist errors."

The KJV is a man-made translation of copies of manuscripts, to which the originals were inspired, and thus we have errors in some manuscripts as well as in the KJV.

Can a person have Christ as his Savior without submitting to Him as Lord?

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No.

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I agree 100%. I do believe in, what has been coined, "Lordship Salvation."

However, true believers do stumble and struggle with things in their lives. It is very difficult to draw a line of "how far" one can go and still be saved. We cannot make that determination. Yet, we can conclude from Galatians 5 that if people are practicing the works of the flesh and that is the main characterization of their life then they will not inherit the kingdom of God.

I have talked to one Catholic who says they are  a "catholic christian"  I have heard thing from this person like praying to their dead mother because she's close to Jesus the they are.  This person is  wondrful  but works seem to be the main theme on salvation.  When asked if they have ever accepted Christ they say yes.  I can only pray they know the truth according to the word of God and not to the Catholic church.

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Where did the word of God come from? It was oral tradition, inspired by the holy spirit and written down by the early church fathers. And guess what, they were Catholic. So when you open up your Bible to read scripture, be sure to thank the Catholic Church for giving you a Bible to read.

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Sorry, Pax. It wasn't "oral tradition" at all. The Word of God was literally God-breathed.

2Ti 3:16 All Scripture is God-breathed, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness,

2Ti 3:17 that the man of God may be perfected, thoroughly furnished to every good work.

Men wrote exactly as they were led by the Holy Spirit.

2Pe 1:21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

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T&O,

Go back and look at what I wrote, I said that it was oral tradition, Divinely Inspired by the holy spirit and written down. God Breathed and divinely inspired mean the same thing. The Apostles walked with Jesus Christ. They passed on what they learned and witness by oral tradition to disciples that came later. Eventually this was written down. Thus we have the bible.

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So the oral tradition is the Bible? I thought you were referring to it as extra-biblical authority.

Okay, reading all of this has worried me a bit.  I am a Christian, and for the past few months I have been in a rut..one of those where I went through the motions of going to church, but without the feeling I should have as a Christian.  I have failed to pray as often as I have, and I have struggled with not having pre-marrital sex..which I have committed in the past few months.  I know I have sinned and I have been convicted.  I knew at the time it was wrong, I have asked for forgiveness many times.  I have tried my best to abstain (I do have a boyfriend..which is still very wrong I know..but just to get the point across that I am not having casual sex )..I am not downplaying this at all..because I have not been obeying God's Word..just wanted to explain it further.

I have not went before the church and asked for forgiveness, but I have prayed about it and have repented in my heart.  Today I felt such peace. I felt wonderful and in touch with God's Word.  This afternoon, I committed this sin (after I had been abstaining).  This is an overshare I know, but I would like to explain this..which has been on my heart.  I need prayers, and more than anything I need some re-assurance.  I have asked for forgiveness for this, and am praying that God will help me to be strong with this situation.  I feel like in the past few months I have had a big turn around in this area in my life..because that is something I battle.  I understand that no one can tell me if God will forgive me for this..because with God..I can truly repent and he will help me to be strong.  Am I wrong if I don't go before the church and repent.  I have asked for forgiveness for this, and for the matter concerning my worldliness.  Will someone please help me or give me some guidance?  Thank you.

Aida

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Also, I don't see why you would need to bring this before the entire Church. You might want to tell your Pastor and some close, godly Christian people in your life to help keep you accountable.

Okay, reading all of this has worried me a bit.  I am a Christian, and for the past few months I have been in a rut..one of those where I went through the motions of going to church, but without the feeling I should have as a Christian.  I have failed to pray as often as I have, and I have struggled with not having pre-marrital sex..which I have committed in the past few months.  I know I have sinned and I have been convicted.  I knew at the time it was wrong, I have asked for forgiveness many times.  I have tried my best to abstain (I do have a boyfriend..which is still very wrong I know..but just to get the point across that I am not having casual sex )..I am not downplaying this at all..because I have not been obeying God's Word..just wanted to explain it further.

I have not went before the church and asked for forgiveness, but I have prayed about it and have repented in my heart.  Today I felt such peace. I felt wonderful and in touch with God's Word.  This afternoon, I committed this sin (after I had been abstaining).  This is an overshare I know, but I would like to explain this..which has been on my heart.  I need prayers, and more than anything I need some re-assurance.  I have asked for forgiveness for this, and am praying that God will help me to be strong with this situation.  I feel like in the past few months I have had a big turn around in this area in my life..because that is something I battle.  I understand that no one can tell me if God will forgive me for this..because with God..I can truly repent and he will help me to be strong.  Am I wrong if I don't go before the church and repent.  I have asked for forgiveness for this, and for the matter concerning my worldliness.  Will someone please help me or give me some guidance?  Thank you.

Aida

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Aida, it is hard for one to give "reassurance" that you are saved. Nobody can know your heart... only you and God.

What I do know is that we are saved by God's grace through faith in Christ. But, this faith in Christ will transform those who are saved because Christ's Spirit indwells that person. The fact that you are being convicted for your sin is a good sign.

My advice to you: since you are failing in this area... over and over and over... you need to recognize this is an area of weakness and temptation in your life. If you are serious about Christ then I would recommend you end your intimate relationship... at least for a while. You need to focus on Christ and your life in Him. Tell God that you love Him more than your boyfriend and will do what it takes to remain pure before Him. Then, if it is God's will, God can bring you two back together again after you each have a time of separation and consecration.

The thing you need to realize is that you are going to continue to sin in this way if you keep the source of the temptation around. It would be like someone who is given to drunkenness promising not to drink anymore, yet they refuse to empty their liquor cabinet.

We are all sinners... even after being saved. This idea of "once you're saved you never sin again" is nonsense. That's called "sinless perfection" and it is completely unbiblical.

You need to structure your life in a way so that you won't be tempted to sin. Our goal shouldn't be simply to resist temptation, but rather to avoid it whenever possible.

God bless you, Aida.

THankyou all

TrustandObey.. thankyou so much for the idea.. however, there is something about this class that you don't know... this class doens't do debates or discussions.. I am stuck with lectures.. and random comments from people.. you don't actually get to state what you believe.. the purpose of the course is to prove that no religion is more valid than another.. and that he need to respect all religions..

To share what I blieve in class .. the opportunity never arises.. and this class is all "facts" basically.. "the Muslim religion teaches..." and "the Buddist religion teachers ..."    ... just like that..

"The Mormons are a Christian sect and they believe in Pro-life".. the most one can say in that point is "I thought Mormons weren't Christian" ... teacher's response "Well, the question Crystal asked is wether or not Mormon's are Christians.  There are many who believe they are and if you ask a Mormon, they will strongly say taht they are Christian.  And their title "Church of Christ of Latter Day Saints" is also very powerful.  On the other hand, there are people who do not believe that Mormons are Christians."... those are the types of questions asked.. and the type of answers given.. in the class... we are not supposed to say that one thing is right.. but be open about everything.. although.. this is not a course where we "find religion.  It is a course where we learn *about* religion"...

Hence.. respect all religions comes into play one again...

I love the idea and if the opportunity comes up great.  By the way, wonderful website.  Thankyou...

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You still may get a chance to stand in front of class and talk... a lot of times this is a task everyone has to do.

At the least, you can let your fellow students know why the information being given is incorrect as long as you do it before and after class.

I've continued my research on the NKJV and have to admit that I've found a mistranslation.

It is found in Romans 4:25 where the NKJV renders it "because of our justification," rather than "for our justification."

This is a significant difference. So, I'm crossing out "because of" and writing "for" underneath it.

Anyone reading the NKJV, like I am, might want to make a note in your Bible.

I have talked to one Catholic who says they are  a "catholic christian"  I have heard thing from this person like praying to their dead mother because she's close to Jesus the they are.  This person is  wondrful  but works seem to be the main theme on salvation.  When asked if they have ever accepted Christ they say yes.  I can only pray they know the truth according to the word of God and not to the Catholic church.

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Where did the word of God come from? It was oral tradition, inspired by the holy spirit and written down by the early church fathers. And guess what, they were Catholic. So when you open up your Bible to read scripture, be sure to thank the Catholic Church for giving you a Bible to read.

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Sorry, Pax. It wasn't "oral tradition" at all. The Word of God was literally God-breathed.

2Ti 3:16 All Scripture is God-breathed, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness,

2Ti 3:17 that the man of God may be perfected, thoroughly furnished to every good work.

Men wrote exactly as they were led by the Holy Spirit.

2Pe 1:21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

kitty, most mothers I know would give their own life for their child. I just read in a newspaper article how the other day how a drunk driver came running a red light and straight for this mother and her two children. She instinctively jumped in front of her children, thereby protecting them by taking the majority of the impact herself.

She is in the hospital in critical condition, but her children are both doing okay with minor injuries.

I know I'd give my life, and I'm a dad, for my children in a heartbeat. I've even asked myself, similar to Paul, if it came down to it... would I trade my place in heaven with my children if I had to? That's a really tough question, but I just can't bear the thought of my children suffering. Therefore, I lead them to Christ daily.

To answer your question... the fact of the matter is that the "life of the mother" issue is really a non-issue. It very, very rarely ends up that way.

Abortion is a crime of convenience and selfishness. The woman is not wanting to make the life-sacrifices that having children demands. Perhaps the woman is very young and ill-prepared to take on the responsibility... there are a multitude of reasons women make the decision to "terminate the pregnancy." But, NONE of them justify killing an innocent child, and that's what abortion is.

Regarding rape and incest... you don't punish the child for the crimes of the father.

Regarding how one's views change to fit their denomination... people are influenced very easily... some more easy than others. That's why it is necessary to be convinced of such things for yourself and then find a Church body that conforms to your beliefs. This is similar to the Catholic debate we have in the "Catholics and the Bible thread." In that thread the Catholics are arguing that you must humbly accept, and never question, what is being handed down to you by "those in Biblical authority (i.e. The Pope, etc.)." This is just plain wrong. We are individually responsible for what we believe. Although those who teach the Word are more accountable to God for what they teach, we as Believers do not get "off the hook" simply because we were told something by someone in authority.

The Bible treats the killing of an unborn life as it does the killing of a born life... the death of the killer is required:

Exo 21:22 If men strive and strike a pregnant woman, so that her child comes out, and there is no injury, he shall surely be punished, according as the woman's husband will lay upon him. And he shall pay as the judges say

Exo 21:23 And if any injury occurs, then you shall give life for life,

Exo 21:24 eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot,

Exo 21:25 burning for burning, wound for wound, stripe for stripe.

See how the offender's life is required if he takes the life of the unborn child? God sees the unborn child for the child that he/she is. No "product of conception here."

I agree with you. What an awesome opportunity to be a witness for Christ. Religion class in college would provide ample opportunity to discuss the differences of Christ and the Bible vs. the world's religions.

Know what you believe and why. Learn how to demonstrate the authority and accuracy of the Scriptures.

This website looks pretty good at equipping one on this topic.

If you know how to demonstrate that the Bible is true and Jesus Christ rose from the dead then you will go a long way towards influencing your peers, and perhaps the teacher/professor, in the class.

Just yesterday I was driving home and in awe of all that God is and is doing in my life. Even when things seem to be falling apart, even when I least deserve the kindness of God He is always holding me in His mighty hand.

What brought this realization to my mind was the song on the radio. I've loved this song for many years and sing it each time it comes on, but yesterday was different. Yesterday God used it to show me His unending love for me. This goes for you too, gang. Our God loves us unconditionally and nothing can ever separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

The song is "Hand of Kindness" by Bob Bennet. Here's the link for the sheet music for you musicians.

I've no need to be reminded

Of all my failures and my sins

For I can write my own indictment

Of who I am and who I've been

I know that grace, by definition,

Is something I can never earn

But for all the things that I may have missed

There's a lesson I believe that I have learned

Chorus:

There's a hand of kind-ness

holding me, holding me

There's a hand of kind-ness

holding me, holding onto me

Forgiveness comes in just a moment

But sometimes the consequences last

And it

I think we all[/] willingly sin at times. I'm sure there are times where we are ready to do something and the Spirit tells us not to, yet we forge ahead anyways.

So, we all willingly sin.

Now, regarding the "won't repent" thing. How long does one have to repent after realizing they sin before they are considered "willingly refusing to repent?"

Is it 5 seconds? 2 seconds? 500 milliseconds?

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If we DIE in sin...

My Pastor says that if you DIE unrepentant you will still go to Heaven...I disagree.

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The issue is whether or not you are walking in the light.

1Jo 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all (past, present, future) sin.

Sin can creep up on us in a moment. We can be enjoying the beautiful presence of God, weeping in worship even, and our flesh can rise up and claim the moment. That is sin, and Paul acknowledged that it wasn't us, but sin dwelling in us.

If what you said were true, we would always, every day, be in a state of "saved, unsaved, saved, unsaved, saved, unsaved, etc."

That is not what the Bible teaches.

Joh 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

Hi everybody!

Haven't been here for a while and I miss you all... I hope that all of you are well.

OK

Here's my question:

IS IT POSSIBLE FOR A SAVED PERSON TO KNOWINGLY, WILLINGLY AND UNREPENTANTLY KEEP SINNING AND STILL GO TO HEAVEN?

Please give scripturale support AND personal opinions welcomed.

Thanks!

Lorry 

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Wllingly and unrepentantly?

Without trying to sound like a broken record

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LOL...No, I meant you willingly sin and even when you realize or understand you have sinned you still won't repent.

ahem.

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I think we all[/] willingly sin at times. I'm sure there are times where we are ready to do something and the Spirit tells us not to, yet we forge ahead anyways.

So, we all willingly sin.

Now, regarding the "won't repent" thing. How long does one have to repent after realizing they sin before they are considered "willingly refusing to repent?"

Is it 5 seconds? 2 seconds? 500 milliseconds?

My point is that we all sin... and we all are stubborn at times. Sinning doesn't negate your salvation. If a true believer refuses to repent then his fellowship with God will be cut off and God will deal with him.

Although, if one is living in a continual, habitual lifestyle of sin those around him can rightfully question whether or not that person is saved. But, only God knows the heart.

Hi all,

I am kind of confused about 2 verses here and need some feedback. Ill bold the parts which confuse me:

Be anxious for nothing, but in everything by prayer and supplication, with thanksgiving, let your requests be made known to God; and the peace of God, which surpasses all understanding, will guard your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus - Phil. 4:6-7

What is this peace? Is like a confirmation of what we asked will come to us?

The peace comes from knowing that you have entrusted your problem to God.

We're told:

1Jo 5:14 And this is the confidence that we have in him, that, if we ask any thing according to his will, he heareth us:

1Jo 5:15 And if we know that he hear us, whatsoever we ask, we know that we have the petitions that we desired of him.

Now to him who is able to do exceedingly abundantly above all that we ask or thing, according to the power that works in us... - Eph. 3:20

So because our God can do way more for us of course, he limits how much he does according to how much strength and belief/faith we have?

Thanx!

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I think this passage in Ephesians is saying that God is able to do way more than we can ask for... and He does it through the ministry of the Holy Spirit in our lives.

That is why "Persevering of the Saints" is a better description. The doctrine states that genuine believers will not fall away.

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Or if they do, as in the case of the Prodigal Son, they will ultimately return to God.

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That's not only what I believe- but experienced in my own life! I did "fall away" for a brief period- and I maintain that God in His mercy not only brought me back to Him, but He allowed me to stay alive and healthy so I would have that opportunity...sometimes I think people only see OSAS as a Spiritual thing; well, I also think it goes into our physical world as well. What if I died ? I don't know- but God didn't allow me to die so I would be where I am now. Does that ( in the "big picture" ) mean OSAS ? I think so

God bless,

Tim

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Tim, I'm with you 100% on that. I had a period of backsliding about a year or two after getting saved. God indeed held and kept me during this time, and He even brought my wife to me during it

What can I say, other than:

Rom 8:28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

Rom 2:4b ...the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance

Luk 15:4 What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he lose one of them, doth not leave the ninety and nine in the wilderness, and go after that which is lost, until he find it?

Luk 15:5 And when he hath found it, he layeth it on his shoulders, rejoicing.

Luk 15:6 And when he cometh home, he calleth together his friends and neighbors, saying unto them, Rejoice with me; for I have found my sheep which was lost.

Luk 15:7 I say unto you, that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repenteth, more than over ninety and nine just persons, which need no repentance.

Pax, you need to go back and read the Parable of the Sower. In it Jesus explained that there are 4 basic responses to the gospel. One outright rejects it. He is not saved. Two receive it gladly and then fall away after a period of time. These are not saved either. Lastly, one receives it and it bears fruit in their life. This is the only one that is saved.

The two that received it and fell away later were not saved. Although, they certainly appeared to be in the early days/weeks/months after their profession. But, only the seed that fell on good soil actually bears fruit unto salvation.

This is in perfect keeping with what "your Baptist upbringing" taught you. There will be many who profess Christ. Some will follow Him for their whole lives, others will fall away after a period of time. Those that fall away after a period of time are simply demonstrating that their soil was not good. These people were never saved to begin with and their falling away simply demonstrates that.

I think this is where two different conclusions are being made. You are concluding that this person was never saved in the first place, but that is not necessarily the only conclusion. Just as likely is that this person did accept the Grace of God, and at that moment was living in the Grace of God. If he/she would have died at that moment they would be in heaven. However if they do not nurture their faith, feist in the word of God, continue to "work out their salvation" They will lose it, because it will wither and die. This can be seen as a very strong argument that one must continue to work out ones salvation or it will wither and die.

God Bless,

Kansas Dad

Pax, it can't be both ways. It has to be one way or the other.

Did not Jesus's Parable fo the Sower clearly show that 2 of the soils give a false impression of a successful crop, but time reveals that the soil was either rocky or thorny and thus the seed didn't take proper root?

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Pax didn't write that. I agree it is either one interpretation or the other, they do not co-exist. The seed did take root and it did sprout but the soil was not maintained. To have good soil you have to not only prepare it right but you have to maintain it through out the growing process. fertilizer, weed killers, water etc. The seed started to grow but then withered and died. How do we maintain good soil. We do it by Feasting on the word of God. By doing as God commands us to do. this is how we work out our salvation. Again I see this as a strong argument for showing that it is something we can have but we can also let it die.

God Bless,

Kansas Dad

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You are somewhat correct on the description of maintaining the soil, but this was not the situation Jesus laid out.

Mat 13:3 And he spake many things unto them in parables, saying, Behold, a sower went forth to sow;

Mat 13:4 And when he sowed, some seeds fell by the way side, and the fowls came and devoured them up:

Mat 13:5 Some fell upon stony places where they had not much earth: and forthwith they sprung up, because they had no deepness of earth: (i.e. the soil was stony at the time the seed was sown, meaning the soil was not properly prepared... no hint here of "maintenance")

Mat 13:6 And when the sun was up, they were scorched; and because they had no root, they withered away.

Mat 13:7 And some fell among thorns; and the thorns sprung up, and choked them: (same here... the thorns were present at the time the seed was sown)

Mat 13:8 But other fell into good ground, and brought forth fruit, some a hundredfold, some sixtyfold, some thirtyfold.

Mat 13:9 Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.

The point is that these people's hearts were not softened and in the place necessary to respond properly to the gospel.

The reason these people fell away (due to the cares of the world and deceitfulness of riches... and because of persecution) is because they did not have the indwelling Holy Spirit to keep them.

1Pe 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

1Pe 1:4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,

1Pe 1:5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

Heb 12:2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

Phi 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:

The Bible is clear that Jesus is the Author and Finisher of our faith. He will finish the work He begins in us and we are kept by the power of God.

Does Jesus fail to keep certain of His flock?

Joh 6:39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

Look, very realistically folks; the very shock-center of satan's activity in the U.S. is the ACLU.  We should all be praying the imprecatory Psalms against that organization.  It MUST BE PROSECUTED UNDER THE RICO STATUTES!

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Leonard, whats the Rico Statutes???

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RICO- Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act- is a federal law that was created to fight the mafia, and later, drug traffickers and other white-collar types of crime. There are street-level gangs that are now being prosecuted under this law.

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The government has also tried to use the RICO to prosecute those who demonstrate in front of abortion clinics (i.e. Pro-Life demonstrators).

Yep, it certainly is getting bad in the government square. This is one reason why the government should not be involved with education. Read the 10th amendment. The Federal Government has no business being involved with education. Thus, the Department of Education is an unconstitutional body along with many other overreaching branches of government.

Private school or homeschool are the only viable options if you want to maintain some type of control over what your kids are being taught and exposed to.

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yeah we homeschool and love it

But on the other hand, our laws and founding documents were written by people that were led of the Holy Spirit in most cases. How can we expect the world to understand these documents from that perspective? If you read the Constitution as a secular humanist it is a great document guaranteeing the same rights to everyone regardless of their religion. Period

We see it that way but more....it also guarantees our right to be religious in the public marketplace without intrusion of governmental prohibitions.

We believe that "our rights" only works in an atmosphere of accepting that there is a "Creator" who endowed us with such inalienable rights...and they come with responsibilites.

Apart from that perspective the 1st Amendment becomes protection for every hedonistic practice in the pursuit of "happiness". It also protects all pagan "gods" one may wish to glorify. We have to accept that christianity is not an endorsed religion of American government though history would certainly put our national documents in a European christian context.

The best way to change our government is by first impacting our society. That requires more than a ballot box

Shadrach, Meshack, Abednigo, Daniel, and Joseph all knew this well.

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yod, I'm 100% in agreement with you on this post.

One thing for others to note is how lost our public schools already are. It is practically "lost beyond any saving."

I encourage everyone to spend some time listening to some of these messages of what is going on in the public school system.

And, since we're on the topic of our children... you all know that Bush wants to subject our children to psychological examinations every year from ages 5-18, right?

And, it was a drug company consortium that wrote the definition of "mental illness." The drug companies have boasted that this will increase the ratio of American children who are medicated from 15% to 50%!!! This plan will also include the screening of all adults and the "forced drugging" of those found to be "mentall ill."

Bush Plans to Screen Whole US Population for Mental Illness

Rep Ron Paul attempted to alter the bill so that parental notification/permission would be required before screening children. He was unsuccessful in getting this change implemented;

Attempt to Stop Mandatory Screening Fails.

We are SO ripe for the New World Order. It is creeping up on us closer each and every day.

Rev 22:20 He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus.

Now, in the mission field example is it acceptable on a temporary basis? I would have to agree that it is better than the alternative... that alternative being nobody filling the role. But, the woman serving abroad in that capacity ought to know the situation to be temporary as they actively seek a man called of God to fill the role.

Well, either God said women categorically cannot teach & have authority over men or He didn't.

Now you [/b( not God) ]are qualifying that, giving provisos . . .

Besides missionaries are called by God - generally it is a lifettime service.

Although men enter into those mission fields, those female missionaries stay on and continue in their leadership roles forging into other areas or working collaboratively with men.

What about seminaries...?

We have seminaries filled with women professors and teachers with degrees coming out of their ying yang, published to the hilt- TEACHING men who will in turn become pastors and priests ...

Women are TEACHING & having AUTHORITY over the men in that context.

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I don't want to get into all of the problems at the seminaries today.

Pax, you need to go back and read the Parable of the Sower. In it Jesus explained that there are 4 basic responses to the gospel. One outright rejects it. He is not saved. Two receive it gladly and then fall away after a period of time. These are not saved either. Lastly, one receives it and it bears fruit in their life. This is the only one that is saved.

The two that received it and fell away later were not saved. Although, they certainly appeared to be in the early days/weeks/months after their profession. But, only the seed that fell on good soil actually bears fruit unto salvation.

This is in perfect keeping with what "your Baptist upbringing" taught you. There will be many who profess Christ. Some will follow Him for their whole lives, others will fall away after a period of time. Those that fall away after a period of time are simply demonstrating that their soil was not good. These people were never saved to begin with and their falling away simply demonstrates that.

I think this is where two different conclusions are being made. You are concluding that this person was never saved in the first place, but that is not necessarly the only conclusion. Just as likely is that this person did accept the Grace of God, and at that moment was living in the Grace of God. If he/she would have died at that moment they would be in heaven. However if they do not nurture their faith, feist in the word of God, continue to "work out their salvation" They will lose it, because it will wither and die. This can be seen as a very strong argument that one must continue to work out ones salvation or it will wither and die.

God Bless,

Kansas Dad

Pax, it can't be both ways. It has to be one way or the other.

Did not Jesus's Parable fo the Sower clearly show that 2 of the soils give a false impression of a successful crop, but time reveals that the soil was either rocky or thorny and thus the seed didn't take proper root?

I think that being in the continual presence of God, coupled with the fact that we will no longer be in bondage to sin, will mean that we'll never even think about sinning, much less doing it.

Like Jesus said "we shall be as unto the angels." But, Satan was an angel and also those that fell with Him.

Somehow, I think we'll be secure in our marriage to Christ.