Burning_Ember

I never said anything of the sort. What I'm saying is that artillery does not get used in such a manner where everything can be done to avoid civilian deaths. If artillery gets used more gingerly, that means fewer civilian deaths, that means fewer peoples brothers and sisters dying. When peoples family members get killed, that's the single biggest recruiting tool for the militias in Gaza for children. Be more careful with artillery, kill fewer innocent people, produce fewer terrorists, and there is less for the IDF to shoot back at next time.

Vending machines were not common in the seventeenth century because they hadn't been invented. Muslim terrorists were not common in 1950s America. What's common and what is not common changes with time. ISIS members may not be common in the West now, but they may become more common in the near future. Besides,vending machines don't deliberately try to kill you................ Fear is something that terrorist groups use as a weapon, and something media organizations use to get you to read, listen, or watch their content. I work in the media, I speak with people who deal with actual domestic security threats, and I've yet to find a reason to be paralyzed in fear that while sitting in my home, or driving to work fearing that an old Toyota Pickup full of AK wielding Jihadists flying a black flag will invade my suburban neighbourhood (or freeway, respectively) like a bunch of land pirates to occupy my Coffee Shop and attempt to seize control of all coffee in a 15 yard radius. The chance that I will walk out the door tomorrow and be killed by a terrorist is about the same chance that I will be hit by a car while being struck by lightning. Is it a national security threat? Yes. Do I have to live in fear of my life everyday over it? There is more crime everyday in my city than there are terrorist attacks in my entire country in a year. your short sightedness is astounding..... There is always going to be a threat of one kind or another to peoples safety. I have better things to do than let the media sell me fear all day. There are 60,000 ISIS fighters on the other side of the world. Not in North America. There have been pro isis things posted in the us. And they actively recruit muslims in the us to join isis. At any time they could decide to start attacking here. Two very different situations. Waging less war in the middle east would have done more to stop terrorism than any counter-terrorism program in existence.

If Israel agrees to the jurisdiction of the ICC then they can file charges against Hamas. That means they would accept any judgements brought against them, as well. In the meantime, since Palestine does, they can bring charges. It's not as though they will march into Israel and arrest people if charges get brought, they can arrest people in any other country that accepts the jurisdiction of the ICC through other law enforcement agencies if they travel to them, which is far more likely. There are 1.6 Million Israeli Arabs, I imagine many of them consider themselves Palestinian. I don't see how 1.6 Million people can be dealt with as a "squatter" issue that belongs to only Jews, when many where born and lived in that area. They already have a country - it's called Israel, or if they want it all to themselves (free from Jews) then they can have Jordan. That's the land that was originally given to them! What you are suggesting is like saying - "there are nearly 39 million Californians. Don't they have a right to their own nation?" or saying "there's an estimated 15 million Italian-Americans. Shouldn't they have their own country?" Shall I tell you who the Palestinians are? In the 1930s most Jews who lived in that part of the World described themselves as Palestinian. The British Army had their own Jewish regiment which was called the 'Palestinian regiment'. There was a Palestine philharmonic orchestra which consisted entirely of Jews. There was a Jewish newspaper called the 'Palestine Post'. The Arabs have no more right to call themselves Palestinians than the Jews have! It's like Texans calling themselves the 'true Americans' and then claiming that New Yorkers, Arizonans, Okeys, and people from Illinois have annexed the U.S.A. There never was a Palestine anyway - only a mandate that consisted of different people who collectively called themselves Palestinians. The Muslim Arabs have hijacked the term 'Palestinian' and claim they have a right to all of Israel. I really wish that more people would learn some history before commenting on things that they don't know anything about! I've read plenty. Then you will agree with me, or you should. All the research and believing in the fair and just treatment of all people, no, I don't think so, but you'll have to be more specific. Fair and just treatment does not extend to giving people a state that they don't deserve. I want fair and just treatment too, so why don't you give me your house and your car? We can swap email addresses and you can give tell me where you live. I'll come and collect what is owed to me. While we're at it, I'll take your wife as well. You see, the Palestinian Arabs were given the opportunity of fair treatment but they didn't accept it - they threw it back in the face of Israelis and demanded more and more, even to the point of demanding the complete destruction of Israel and the death of all Jews. By the way, Israel has fair laws that work against negative discrimination. In the Israeli parliament (Knesset) there are women, there are homosexuals and there are Arabs. Yes, there are Arabs in the Israeli government. So remind me again why they need their own state. Are there any Jews in the government of the Palestinian Authorities (Hamas) ? No there are none. In fact, even daring to be a Jew in Gaza or the West Bank will get you lynched to death. Bulldozing a village where Palestinians live so that a settlement can be built is not fair and just. It is cleansing one ethnic group in favour of another. I've seen too much video footage from the inside of Gaza from terrible amounts of civilian casualties where peoples families get destroyed to believe that is fair and just. I don't deny for a second that terrorists target and do awful things to Israelis horrifying terrorist attacks... But the footage of artillery dropping on markets in Gaza is nothing short of horrifying, and there is no excuse for dropping artillery, which is not a precision weapon, into markets, onto apartment buildings with civilians inside... The life of every Palestinian is just as valuable as the life of every Israeli, and should be treated as such. The artillery is dropped where the weapons are coming from. If there are weapons attacking you, you have to attack the source of where those weapons are coming from. If you don't destroy the source you don't protect yourself from the weapons. It's not the Israeli's fault that the Palestinians DELIBERATELY fire rockets from schools, houses, shops and anywhere that civilians live because they use their own women and children as human shields. That's the Muslim way - use innocent people to hide behind, and then call them martyrs when they killed by whoever it is that you are attacking. Honestly, this has been discussed so many times on Worthy and pointed out so many times on Worthy that it's becoming tiresome now. In fact, people like me are fed up with explaining it to people like you. Do you not realise that the Palestinians hide behind babies and children? Do you not realise that the Palestinians are responsible for the deaths of their own people and not the Israelis? Do you not realise that they sacrifice their own people because they don't care at all for the sanctity of human life? There are so many cases of this happening that it's become extremely irritating to keep telling other people about it when if they were informed they would already know this by now! It's becoming such a regular routine now and has been going on for years that most of us are getting fed up of explaining this. When will people realise that the ISRAELIS ARE NOT IN THE WRONG but the Palestinians are? When will the World start condemning the Palestinians for the terrorists that they are, and the fact that Hamas (their ruling political party) are nothing but a ruthless organisation that kills their own people? When will the World stop blaming the Israelis for these war crimes and start placing the blame fair and square on the heads of the ruthless Palestinian authorities where it firmly belongs? I'm tired of going over this and constantly explaining this - especially to Bible-believing Christians who should know better. There is no such thing as one side or another being totally justified in war. In most every war, civilians are killed and war crimes are committed, by both sides. I object to the way artillery is used because it is not a precision weapon. When you use 155mm artillery pieces, they are accurate to within about 50 metres. They have a kill radius of 25 metres and an injury radius of 75 metres. If you are returning fire at a terrorist firing rockets with an artillery piece, you may hit 50 metres away, and almost certainly kill anyone in a 25 metre radius, and maim people 75 metres away from that. When you fire into an area about as densely populated as Chicago... You do so knowing that you will kill civilians. When Hamas fires rockets into Israel, they are responsible for where that lands. When the IDF fires artillery into a city, they are responsible for where it lands. And any belligerent in a military conflict is responsible for using proportional force, minimizing damage to infrastructure, and minimizing civilian casualties. This has caused thousands of civilian deaths over the past 20 years. No mother wants to lose their child to an artillery strike. Seeing anyone who has lost their child, or their sister, or brother grieve in the aftermath, whether Israeli or Palestinian, is some pretty heartbreaking stuff. Shifting military tactics to lessen civilian deaths would save the lives of many innocent civilians. If you consider everyones lives to be of equal value, and for the just treatment of all, then you too should be in favour of taking every measure necessary to save peoples lives, no matter whose life that is. Reducing the usage of 155mm artillery in Gaza is a good start.

If Israel agrees to the jurisdiction of the ICC then they can file charges against Hamas. That means they would accept any judgements brought against them, as well. In the meantime, since Palestine does, they can bring charges. It's not as though they will march into Israel and arrest people if charges get brought, they can arrest people in any other country that accepts the jurisdiction of the ICC through other law enforcement agencies if they travel to them, which is far more likely. There are 1.6 Million Israeli Arabs, I imagine many of them consider themselves Palestinian. I don't see how 1.6 Million people can be dealt with as a "squatter" issue that belongs to only Jews, when many where born and lived in that area. They already have a country - it's called Israel, or if they want it all to themselves (free from Jews) then they can have Jordan. That's the land that was originally given to them! What you are suggesting is like saying - "there are nearly 39 million Californians. Don't they have a right to their own nation?" or saying "there's an estimated 15 million Italian-Americans. Shouldn't they have their own country?" Shall I tell you who the Palestinians are? In the 1930s most Jews who lived in that part of the World described themselves as Palestinian. The British Army had their own Jewish regiment which was called the 'Palestinian regiment'. There was a Palestine philharmonic orchestra which consisted entirely of Jews. There was a Jewish newspaper called the 'Palestine Post'. The Arabs have no more right to call themselves Palestinians than the Jews have! It's like Texans calling themselves the 'true Americans' and then claiming that New Yorkers, Arizonans, Okeys, and people from Illinois have annexed the U.S.A. There never was a Palestine anyway - only a mandate that consisted of different people who collectively called themselves Palestinians. The Muslim Arabs have hijacked the term 'Palestinian' and claim they have a right to all of Israel. I really wish that more people would learn some history before commenting on things that they don't know anything about! I've read plenty. Then you will agree with me, or you should. All the research and believing in the fair and just treatment of all people, no, I don't think so, but you'll have to be more specific. Fair and just treatment does not extend to giving people a state that they don't deserve. I want fair and just treatment too, so why don't you give me your house and your car? We can swap email addresses and you can give tell me where you live. I'll come and collect what is owed to me. While we're at it, I'll take your wife as well. You see, the Palestinian Arabs were given the opportunity of fair treatment but they didn't accept it - they threw it back in the face of Israelis and demanded more and more, even to the point of demanding the complete destruction of Israel and the death of all Jews. By the way, Israel has fair laws that work against negative discrimination. In the Israeli parliament (Knesset) there are women, there are homosexuals and there are Arabs. Yes, there are Arabs in the Israeli government. So remind me again why they need their own state. Are there any Jews in the government of the Palestinian Authorities (Hamas) ? No there are none. In fact, even daring to be a Jew in Gaza or the West Bank will get you lynched to death. Bulldozing a village where Palestinians live so that a settlement can be built is not fair and just. It is cleansing one ethnic group in favour of another. I've seen too much video footage from the inside of Gaza from terrible amounts of civilian casualties where peoples families get destroyed to believe that is fair and just. I don't deny for a second that terrorists target and do awful things to Israelis horrifying terrorist attacks... But the footage of artillery dropping on markets in Gaza is nothing short of horrifying, and there is no excuse for dropping artillery, which is not a precision weapon, into markets, onto apartment buildings with civilians inside... The life of every Palestinian is just as valuable as the life of every Israeli, and should be treated as such.

More war, more civilian deaths, more violence as a result. Such a saddening thing.

Vending machines were not common in the seventeenth century because they hadn't been invented. Muslim terrorists were not common in 1950s America. What's common and what is not common changes with time. ISIS members may not be common in the West now, but they may become more common in the near future. Besides,vending machines don't deliberately try to kill you................ Fear is something that terrorist groups use as a weapon, and something media organizations use to get you to read, listen, or watch their content. I work in the media, I speak with people who deal with actual domestic security threats, and I've yet to find a reason to be paralyzed in fear that while sitting in my home, or driving to work fearing that an old Toyota Pickup full of AK wielding Jihadists flying a black flag will invade my suburban neighbourhood (or freeway, respectively) like a bunch of land pirates to occupy my Coffee Shop and attempt to seize control of all coffee in a 15 yard radius. The chance that I will walk out the door tomorrow and be killed by a terrorist is about the same chance that I will be hit by a car while being struck by lightning. Is it a national security threat? Yes. Do I have to live in fear of my life everyday over it? There is more crime everyday in my city than there are terrorist attacks in my entire country in a year. your short sightedness is astounding..... There is always going to be a threat of one kind or another to peoples safety. I have better things to do than let the media sell me fear all day. There are 60,000 ISIS fighters on the other side of the world. Not in North America.

Vending machines were not common in the seventeenth century because they hadn't been invented. Muslim terrorists were not common in 1950s America. What's common and what is not common changes with time. ISIS members may not be common in the West now, but they may become more common in the near future. Besides,vending machines don't deliberately try to kill you................ Fear is something that terrorist groups use as a weapon, and something media organizations use to get you to read, listen, or watch their content. I work in the media, I speak with people who deal with actual domestic security threats, and I've yet to find a reason to be paralyzed in fear that while sitting in my home, or driving to work fearing that an old Toyota Pickup full of AK wielding Jihadists flying a black flag will invade my suburban neighbourhood (or freeway, respectively) like a bunch of land pirates to occupy my Coffee Shop and attempt to seize control of all coffee in a 15 yard radius. The chance that I will walk out the door tomorrow and be killed by a terrorist is about the same chance that I will be hit by a car while being struck by lightning. Is it a national security threat? Yes. Do I have to live in fear of my life everyday over it? There is more crime everyday in my city than there are terrorist attacks in my entire country in a year. Nobody said that you should fear it other than the original OP who expressed a fear. That why I posted in response to the thread, as the chance that anything bad would happen to me, or the OP, as a direct result of terrorism is so small, it is not worth being afraid about.

Vending machines were not common in the seventeenth century because they hadn't been invented. Muslim terrorists were not common in 1950s America. What's common and what is not common changes with time. ISIS members may not be common in the West now, but they may become more common in the near future. Besides,vending machines don't deliberately try to kill you................ Fear is something that terrorist groups use as a weapon, and something media organizations use to get you to read, listen, or watch their content. I work in the media, I speak with people who deal with actual domestic security threats, and I've yet to find a reason to be paralyzed in fear that while sitting in my home, or driving to work fearing that an old Toyota Pickup full of AK wielding Jihadists flying a black flag will invade my suburban neighbourhood (or freeway, respectively) like a bunch of land pirates to occupy my Coffee Shop and attempt to seize control of all coffee in a 15 yard radius. The chance that I will walk out the door tomorrow and be killed by a terrorist is about the same chance that I will be hit by a car while being struck by lightning. Is it a national security threat? Yes. Do I have to live in fear of my life everyday over it? There is more crime everyday in my city than there are terrorist attacks in my entire country in a year.

If Israel agrees to the jurisdiction of the ICC then they can file charges against Hamas. That means they would accept any judgements brought against them, as well. In the meantime, since Palestine does, they can bring charges. It's not as though they will march into Israel and arrest people if charges get brought, they can arrest people in any other country that accepts the jurisdiction of the ICC through other law enforcement agencies if they travel to them, which is far more likely. There are 1.6 Million Israeli Arabs, I imagine many of them consider themselves Palestinian. I don't see how 1.6 Million people can be dealt with as a "squatter" issue that belongs to only Jews, when many where born and lived in that area. They already have a country - it's called Israel, or if they want it all to themselves (free from Jews) then they can have Jordan. That's the land that was originally given to them! What you are suggesting is like saying - "there are nearly 39 million Californians. Don't they have a right to their own nation?" or saying "there's an estimated 15 million Italian-Americans. Shouldn't they have their own country?" Shall I tell you who the Palestinians are? In the 1930s most Jews who lived in that part of the World described themselves as Palestinian. The British Army had their own Jewish regiment which was called the 'Palestinian regiment'. There was a Palestine philharmonic orchestra which consisted entirely of Jews. There was a Jewish newspaper called the 'Palestine Post'. The Arabs have no more right to call themselves Palestinians than the Jews have! It's like Texans calling themselves the 'true Americans' and then claiming that New Yorkers, Arizonans, Okeys, and people from Illinois have annexed the U.S.A. There never was a Palestine anyway - only a mandate that consisted of different people who collectively called themselves Palestinians. The Muslim Arabs have hijacked the term 'Palestinian' and claim they have a right to all of Israel. I really wish that more people would learn some history before commenting on things that they don't know anything about! I've read plenty. Then you will agree with me, or you should. All the research and believing in the fair and just treatment of all people, no, I don't think so, but you'll have to be more specific.

If I lived in the US, it is more likely that I would be killed by a falling vending machine than by terrorists. I'm not going to live my life being afraid of falling vending machines, so I don't see the need to live life being afraid of something more uncommon than that.

If Israel agrees to the jurisdiction of the ICC then they can file charges against Hamas. That means they would accept any judgements brought against them, as well. In the meantime, since Palestine does, they can bring charges. It's not as though they will march into Israel and arrest people if charges get brought, they can arrest people in any other country that accepts the jurisdiction of the ICC through other law enforcement agencies if they travel to them, which is far more likely. There are 1.6 Million Israeli Arabs, I imagine many of them consider themselves Palestinian. I don't see how 1.6 Million people can be dealt with as a "squatter" issue that belongs to only Jews, when many where born and lived in that area. They already have a country - it's called Israel, or if they want it all to themselves (free from Jews) then they can have Jordan. That's the land that was originally given to them! What you are suggesting is like saying - "there are nearly 39 million Californians. Don't they have a right to their own nation?" or saying "there's an estimated 15 million Italian-Americans. Shouldn't they have their own country?" Shall I tell you who the Palestinians are? In the 1930s most Jews who lived in that part of the World described themselves as Palestinian. The British Army had their own Jewish regiment which was called the 'Palestinian regiment'. There was a Palestine philharmonic orchestra which consisted entirely of Jews. There was a Jewish newspaper called the 'Palestine Post'. The Arabs have no more right to call themselves Palestinians than the Jews have! It's like Texans calling themselves the 'true Americans' and then claiming that New Yorkers, Arizonans, Okeys, and people from Illinois have annexed the U.S.A. There never was a Palestine anyway - only a mandate that consisted of different people who collectively called themselves Palestinians. The Muslim Arabs have hijacked the term 'Palestinian' and claim they have a right to all of Israel. I really wish that more people would learn some history before commenting on things that they don't know anything about! I've read plenty.

So what about being a Palestinian automatically makes you less smart than any other human being, exactly? Is that a default thing, if you a Palestinian, have you been born more stupid than someone else or something?

If Israel agrees to the jurisdiction of the ICC then they can file charges against Hamas. That means they would accept any judgements brought against them, as well. In the meantime, since Palestine does, they can bring charges. It's not as though they will march into Israel and arrest people if charges get brought, they can arrest people in any other country that accepts the jurisdiction of the ICC through other law enforcement agencies if they travel to them, which is far more likely. There are 1.6 Million Israeli Arabs, I imagine many of them consider themselves Palestinian. I don't see how 1.6 Million people can be dealt with as a "squatter" issue that belongs to only Jews, when many where born and lived in that area.

Well, it would be Israeli Officials, not US Officials in this circumstance if they did prosecute/convict.

Even if you break the law, you are entitled to equal protection under the law. Breaking the law, illegal immigrant or not, does not strip you of constitutional protections against cruel and unusual punishment, or a fair trial, or freedom of speech, etc.

Since Israel does not recognize the ICC, no, they can't. If those Government officials step into a country where they do, yes, they can.

14th Amendment Section 1: No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws. The constitution says that the constitution applies equally, also, see LadyC's link. The consequences of amending the constitution so that foreigners did not have equal protection under the constitution/law would be far, far worse then having those protections in place.

If they investigate, find evidence, and convict, they can issue warrants and arrest people. It's an entirely different matter than whether people think the ICC is justified to do so.

Excellent! It looks like that provides some insight. Thank you LadyC!

You have to provide evidence for your argument. Prove that rights only apply to citizens. I don't imagine it is suddenly legal to restrict the freedom of speech of foreigners, or have them be subject to unreasonable search and seizure, or tortured in prison, and so on...

Looks like the Palestinians will be going through the UN and the ICC for recognition and criminal charges then.

What court case determined that the constitution does not apply to people other than American Citizens, exactly?

The Constitution grants equal treatment under the law to all religions. If that means taxpayer dollars go to support a religious display, someone can sue to have equal treatment in that regard. That is what the courts have decided.

I did address what you said. Read my post. It does in fact give you the right to say that. It gives you the right to sue. The judgement for that is up to the courts.

The first amendment and the constitution grant rights, not a privilege. Everyone has the right to say, think, and do what they wish so long as they do not violate any other law or violate someone else's rights. If someone wants to speak their own language, or be offended, or engage in political activity to change things, that is their right. Where they came from doesn't matter in the eyes of the law. In addition, America, like everywhere else in the world, is in a constant state of change. No place in the world is the same as 20 years ago, or will be the same in 20 years. It's not just people from outside the country, everyone changes the country, time changes the country, technology does, etc. If change is a constant, as best I can figure out, the best thing to do is be the change yourself that you want to see in the world.