ray

Facedown said Well face down I don't know if you have a typo but it is wrttien in Ephesians 4:11 It was he who gave some to be apostles, some to be prophets, some to be evangelists, and some to be pastors and teachers, This verse does not indicate that men only get these gifts IT says he gave to some. Some can include women. If a Lady is teaching ladies class she obvisouly got permission to teach that class from some authority and my guess is it would be man told her that she could teach it. If a man would sit in a ladys Bible class he might feel awkward being the only male there. However, if the lady has already been given the authority to teach and a man has the privlige to sit in on a Ladys class he would not be not just learning from the authority of a women but would hearing how God gives women the authority to teach. If a man can not balance his own check book and ask his wife to balance the check book because she is better at managing money better than him she is not usurping authority over him because she is sumbmissve and is doing what is best for the both of them. Likewise if the wife if not money management skilled I would not force her to learn. however, I would inform her that she needs to understand where the money is going and we need sit down and look over the fincail issues together once a month or something. However, we all come to different conclsions on own studies about the roles of women. I think I'm more blessed now because I can now here a womens faith story and not have them feel like they can only share it women only. Growing up in church I never had a male teacher till I got to an adult class either. So why do we have the double standard that women can teach the children but not the adults. Where was the man who should have been teaching me as I grew up if women are to be silent? However, I'm most thankful that I have been equally blessed and more so now that I have changed my view point. I know what else i say may not change your view point but my church studied this issue very carefully. And we all now feel richer in wisdom. These women were given permision and for us at my church it not issue any more it is just normal. Although my church has changed its view points on the roles of women in the church it did take a lot of careful study for well about 10 years or so to see that our tradtions where what holding us back from this. However we do not yet have a female pastor at our church now it is now possible if our church ever wanted one. And yes it would be awkward at first because it does not fit with our normal tradtions. Thanks ray :sweating:

I don't understand the intial statement that started this forum. I don't get that water and spirt baptism are different. When I was baptized I was baptized only once for God the Father, God the son and God the Holy Spirt. So i see it all as one and don't understand the debate. As I stated in another forum on Tongues, Why is that when those who claim to have this gift of Tounges must seem to boast about it and condem other to feeling bad because they don't speak in tounges. Don't condemm me lest you be judged. When I say that my niece has been baptized it should not turn into an argumenet of what age she is. The Bible state only that you be able to confess with your own mouth. So it does not matter the age. And as far as water and spirt my niece did all at once based on my understanding of the scriptures. I don't see why everything has to turn into an arguement. I would think when someone tells you wonderful news it is more Praise the Lord, Good job, awesome. Not, lets make a debate about this issues. When you don't congradulate it sounds like you are condemming the baptism as worthless and that I or my niece will never make to heaven because we come to an understanding of the scriptures differently. Who are you to determine what is right and wrong and who made you God to condemm such a beutiful thing? Sorry if I'm not in agreement with some of you on this issue. Before I say any more I'm just gonna stop here. May the peace of the Lord Bless us all, ray

A Bible error that was just brought to my light in the past few weeks. Psalms 23 in the King James version we all learned pretty much by heart. However when reading it in the NIV part of the 23 Psalm is deleted. Why is that? Thanks ray :t:

The Death, Burial, and Resurection has changed the lives of many? What changes does it bring to you? ray

Ray, You misunderstood me. I didn't say that God said that what He said wasn't up for discussion. Of course God didn't say that, BUT, if God says something, it SHOULDN'T be up for discussion. My wife even says that. if God says something, it SHOULDN'T be up for discussion. Salt and Light I'm sorry if I missunderstood but I guess I'm still misunderstanding you. So if God says something I should except it as final and can not discuss it with anyone. I don't understand that thinking. At least that what I understand from your coment if God says something, it SHOULDN'T be up for discussion So since God has a lot to say in the Bible it is not up for discussion. OR if it not mentioned in a part of the Bible I can't discuss it I just don't get that. But I agree with you on your earlier coment Ray, I guess I feel the same as you. As I said in an earlier post, I feel that that scripture is speaking to the idea of not causing conflict in church or within the worship, not about females in their roles per se. The theme of conflict and avoiding it comes up time and time again in Pauls writings, the theme of women remaining silent does not. Also, the idea of women not ministering through evangelizing, preaching, leading is NOT thematic throughout the Bible, rather evidence that God uses women in those roles is. Like you said, we need to look at the scriptures as a whole and not just pulling verses here or there that fit our needs. Now I'm just confussed on the coment you stated above that I made bigger that you made. ray

I think what God said is not up for discussion,and his word says that women are to remain silent in the churches, and they are not to usurp authority over the man. I think what God said is not up for discussion Salt and Light Where does God say that it is not up for discusion salt and light? If the scriptures indacte that women are to be silent where they not before? I'm not trying to take apart the Bible at any point but I'm trying to look at the whole picture. When I examine only that passage about being silent my focuss is not compelete there is more to it than that one passage. If I only take one passage of the Bible and claim it to be complete than everyone should be over weight too because the scripture in psalms tell us to "Delight thyself in fat" Just because the New Testment does not mention about instruments in worship does not mean its wrong either. But this is an issues for another fourm. IF we examine the scripture in its context as well as just one verse at a time we can also get ourselves in to trouble. We need to examine the context and look at the whole picture. Thanks ray

:t: So what do all the buttons mean after you post message. Like track this message? or PM its not night time yet? and the little black thumb holding paper? and what does it mean to report? and so and so? Thanks ray

:t: Why is hard to share our Faith with others? IF it is easy how do I share it? Thanks ray

Why? I wonder am I told that some of you will only chat through message boards and not in the chat rooms? OR why those in the chat rooms will not write on the message boards? What is the fear? Thanks ray :sweating: PS I do both

Hi! Snowdove, What is YHVH'S stand for? thanks ray

:t: what is your view point on the roles of women in the worship service? Until the past few few years my view point is and has changed on this topic. i have studied the roles of women greatly and as I looked at the broader view and not just the passage where says women should be silent in the worship. I have changed my perspective. Even if women are silent why could they not serve communion? they don't have to say anything just pass the emmblims. Now, I have changed my thinking completely and find it wonderful for women to lead public prayer, read scripture, do communion orientation. So whats you view point? Thanks ray

There is a scripture in the new testment that talks about serving two master found in the gospels somewhere. We are comanded to love our emimies in Luke 6:27 However, when we go to church on Sunday we put on various mask because we are serving two masters. We are all humans and fall short of the Glory of God. People will come to church looking for healing but instead they find rejection. I thought if we were Christians we were to allow the sinners in off the street such as the prostitutes, homosexuals, drug addict, or what ever else kind of addict. But to many times I see or here people say keep your sin in private it will go away on its own. Or we tend to sweep the problem under the carpet. Not allowing that person to heal. Keeping an issuse of great needs in private or under the carpet causes greater pain. For example in my understanding of the justifable world of christians will never talk of sexual impurity in worship at all. Just sweep it under the carpet like its not even there. If we don't talk about it will it really just go away. But the scriptures indicates to me if I bring my problem to the light it will than only be healed. So how can my problem be healed under the carpet? Or why is it that as Christians when are called to help those in need why do we tend most often than not blow them off? Thanks ray

cool I'm not the only one just now figureing this out. cool beans Enjoy. God Bless, ray