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1. I am not talking about idol worship, besides, idols do not have to be "graven images". 2. I will look up the passages to get the context and will get back with you. Thank you for giving me a starting point to start my reasearch. p.s. I do not get offended when given scripture!! I am the first one to bring up scripture and to tell you to research the scriptures yourself. I would rather be given scripture so that I may check it out for myself than to be told that you are right and expect me to take your word on it. Please do not get offended when I ask for Scripture, for I shall ALWAYS ask for it.

The question is... do we worship them? No. Even in Revelation the bible says No. It is also not good to have figurines and statues according to the commandments of God to not make images of things in heaven... including what some people think Jesus looks like and angels. Most figurines are female looking in regards to angels, so that is incorrect as well. In the bible they always appear in the form of men. I would also stay away from charms of angels or any kind of charms. Think of what the word means. May I have scripture of this please?? NOt trying to be hard headed, but as I have never ran across such scripture or ever heard of this before, I would like to see if for myself. Then I shall believe that depictions of angels are unbiblical. I know that we are not to worship them, this has never been my question, only having dispictions of them. Thank you!! Deb

Really?? Where?? I have pics of family members on the wall, both living and dead!! They are not worshipped nor are they graven images, but simply pics. We are told to NOT worship graven images, not that we aren't allowed to have a despiction on the wall. Were in the bible does it say "graven images" without it talking about "worshiping" or "other gods"

As someone who was addicted to drugs, I do see a difference between lust, desire, and love. Lust is of the flesh. It is uncontrolable and easy to do as all fleshy things are. Love is only an emotion, but it is also an action. It is something that we do. Desire can go either way. Depends on whether or not what we desire is from God or His will.

They can become visible, but they are angels unaware at that point! Occasionally we do hear of those who have been knowingly ministered to by angels, and I accept that. My statement earlier was general, regarding their physical appearance...as we really never see them as they truly are in all their own particular glory! My point is that they are not alway invisible or unawares. Most of the time, I agree, they are. I believe that we must be careful of what we consider evil and why. Angels are here doing what the Father tells them to do and nothing else. We are not to pray to them, summon them, or worship them. I agree with this, but to consider having something on the wall that is of God and works for God as evil is just as wrong. They are holy and they are in the presence of God day and night. Angels celebrate when a person is born again. They are not to be considered evil.

They are not always invisible. Heb 13:2 Be not forgetful to entertain strangers: for thereby some have entertained angels unawares. Abraham, Mary, Joseph, Elizabeth, and Jacob have all seen angels.

We are not to worship or pray to angels. But they do have a place in our lives. They are here to minister to us. http://bible1.crosswalk.com/OnlineStudyBib...;st=21&sd=0 Mt 18:10 "See that you do not despise one of these little ones, for I say to you that their angels in heaven continually see the face of My Father who is in heaven. http://bible1.crosswalk.com/OnlineStudyBib...=1&oq=angel

I really think that you need to reread my words in this thread. I have repeated them twice and do not feel like doing so again.

Paul was jailed many times because he spoke the Word everywhere, even if it meant him going to jail for it. If he and Christ were willing to lay down their lives and freedoms to preach the Word, then that must mean that I as a Christian will continue to do so. We are to follow the Laws of the land up until the point where it goes against God. Not preaching the Word or witnessing to the lost would be against the Word of God and what we are told to do. I will golorify God every where and NO LAW SHALL STOP ME!!! Even when the literal meaning of the 1st. Amendment is overriden by those who wish to put their own spin on it.

No you don't get it. Bad man contact american, talk ten minutes while NSA record conversation and phone number of american. Bad man and American hang up. 1. 15 min later government official get warrant and start listening to all phone calls made by american to anyone. vs 2. government official dont get warrant and start listening to all phone calls made by american to anyone. the first is legal and constitutional the second is unconstitutional, but apparently legal anyway. And the second isn't being done.

]What Clinton did in this case was not against the law. It was allowed under the law that Reagan put into practice. When I went to work for NSA we had to sign this form explaining that we knew we were not allowed to spy on private citisens. If the person's number was called by...say...a Peruvian drug lord, Saddam's Uncle...whoever, it was allowed for that call to be listened to. What we didn't have was the right to tap that number AGAIN after the drug lord or Saddam's uncle hung up without a warrant (which could be easily gotten with a transcript of the phone conversation and the number, again 15 minutes and this was over 12 yr ago). Agreed!! This is exactly what Bush is doing!! There isn't any difference. Don't disagree with you there. I too am southern. The question though wasn't rather we are willing to lay our lives down (as being a person in the military, I want to thank you!! I do not think that our military hears that enough), but are we willing to let the Government tap calls from or to US soil and known terrorist OUTSIDE the country. A warrent is asked for and issued so that they are able to be tapped again. I am!!

Attacks on American soil have already been stopped because of these wire-tapping. I would rather have my phone tapped than to be dead. I would also like to add that just because Clinton did it does not mean that everyone else is doing it. Clinton did alot of things that were against the law. does anybody remember filegate?

The 10 commandments being taken down. the ACLU sueing the boy scouts because they are Christian Not allowed to pray on school grounds. "Christmas" or "Christmas carols" allowed during the season. http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1653810/posts Not allowing the children to "freely express" their religion is a violation of the 1st Admendment. Have you read the 1st Admendment?? I know I posted it.

I used to work at NSA, back under Clinton. These things have never just been overseas. Yes, Bush even says that these are call either to or from the US to known terrorist OUTSIDE of the US.

If they were listening to anybody and everybody, then I might object over the principle of the thing. Even though I have nothing to hide. Now these wiretaps are only on overseas calls from America to known terrorist. This does not bother me at all. I think that they need to be monitored. I would rather these calls be monitored than to take a chance at being bombed again.

Another thing about Babylon, it is against Israel. Ezekiel 17:1-21 It is now and will always be against Israel. We as a nation have been and as long as we do protect Israel, we can not be babylon. My opinion?? Babylon is the Muslim Countries who are out to destroy Israel to this day.

There are many instances in the OT where a nation was saved because of the intersession of the Saints. What you say is true, we are killing babies in this country and many other dispictable things. Agreed!! But there are many Saints in this country who are praying for this country and are still fighting against some of these things. We also have to remember to stand up for Israel. The bible says that God will curse those who curse Israel and will bless those who bless Israel. The left are not for protecting Israel, but rather to protect those who wish to destroy Israel. The fact that Bush is in office is simply he was the lessor of two evils. At least that is why I voted for him this last election. At least he is honest and sticks by what he says, which is more than you can find on the left. Of course, I would have voted for Lieberman if he was running......... But he has done some good. The best thing in my opinion that he did was his Supreme Court Justices. Because of his choices, for the fist time since abortion was legalized, we are seeing the possiblity of it being overturned. This NEVER would have been possible if Kerry was elected.

Exactly!!! I agree!!

Then don't complain when Muslims, Mormons, Scientologists or Wiccans do the same thing. Relax!! Take a deep breath, or come back when you are able to debate the issue without getting upset when someone disagrees with you. 1. I don't think that you really read what I wrote in my link, if you did you wouldn't be getting so upset. 2. I agree!! That is exactly my point. The fact that they have all of these banns on Christians and our Faith, while at the same time allow the teachings of Muhammad in these same schools. 3. Reread my words in this thread!! I myself have stated that as parents we should be the ones to teach religion to our children. 4. It is the hypocracy that seems to be the problem. 5. It is unConstitutional for the Government to EVER make ANY laws that prohibit the free expression of religion. Yes, this includes any and all. The problem is that witches, muslims, etc... are allowed to speak about their religion, but Christianity is the only religion that is being restricted as far as free expression.

There is a huge difference between praying just so that others see you and "advertising" The former means that we are not to do so that we may have others say how "holy" or "spiritual" we are. It is done for pride and for show. The latter is a comandment from Jesus. We are to go out and to spead the Goodnews and to talk about God.

I agree that the teaching of religion should be done by parents and not schools. ANY religion, not just Christianity. But and this is a huge but.........it is not up to the government to tell our children that they aren't allowed to pray or to speak God's name, or to gather before or after school. That is making a law repecting religion and prohibiting the free expression of religion. This is in complete contratiction with the Constitution.

How are we suppose to treat someone has a different opinion on what the bible actually says? Is it to: 1. To insult and demean the other person? Now where is that biblical? or 2. To do as the bible says to do? Reprove in Love? Now, this is what the bible says to do: 2 Timothy 2: 24 And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient, 25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; 26 And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will. and Romans 12: 10 Be kindly affectioned one to another with brotherly love; in honour preferring one another; 11 Not slothful in business; fervent in spirit; serving the Lord; 12 Rejoicing in hope; patient in tribulation; continuing instant in prayer; 13 Distributing to the necessity of saints; given to hospitality. 14 Bless them which persecute you: bless, and curse not. 15 Rejoice with them that do rejoice, and weep with them that weep. 16 Be of the same mind one toward another. Mind not high things, but condescend to men of low estate. Be not wise in your own conceits. 17 Recompense to no man evil for evil. Provide things honest in the sight of all men. 18 If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men. 19 Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord. 20 Therefore if thine enemy hunger, feed him; if he thirst, give him drink: for in so doing thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head. 21 Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good. Another thing to think about. The bible teaches that you will know those who belong to Christ by their fruit. Here: Matthew 7: 20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them. ok what are the fruit? Here: Gal. 5: 13 For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another. 14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 15 But if ye bite and devour one another, take heed that ye be not consumed one of another. 16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh. 17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would. 18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law. 19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, 20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, 21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, 23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. 24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts. 25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. 26 Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another. I am not the one to judge who is right or who is wrong. That is not up to me. But ask yourself, "what kind of fruit am I showing here?" What is the purpose of my posts? Is it to demean some one else or is it instead to show what the bible says and let the HS convict him/her of the truth? It is the HS's job to convict not ours. Our only job is to show and teach the Word, not to judge others, not to demeans others, and not to push others away. Only God knows the heart. He looks at the heart and judges what is there. If someone is striving to please God, God is happy. I for one do not have an wish to stand in the way of the HS's job, nor is it my wish to push away those who are seeking God and seeking what God wants to do in that person's life. Judge yourself before you judge others. Reproof? Yes it is!! But to myself as well as those of us who are meant to hear this. I think that sometimes we get so involved that we forget what we are here for. A personal dislike of someone is no reason to be nasty to that person. The bible says to gently reprove and correct. This is what we need to remember to do. Some of us (myself included) have been unusally harsh and this is not the way it ought to be. Not the way Jesus would want it. Remember that we are here to do His work. 1 Timothy 1: 5 But the goal of our instruction is love from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith. 6 For some men, straying from these things, have turned aside to fruitless discussion, We are to love everybody, even those with whom we disagree and for some reason do not really like. We need to remember to put our personal dislikes aside and show the Love of Christ to everyone. THis is what the bible teaches, this is what Jesus says to do.

First let me show what the bible says about Gossip: 2 Corinthians: 12:19 All this time you have been thinking that we are defending ourselves to you. Actually, it is in the sight of God that we have been speaking in Christ; and all for your upbuilding, beloved. 12:20 For I am afraid that perhaps when I come I may find you to be not what I wish and may be found by you to be not what you wish; that perhaps there will be strife, jealousy , angry tempers, disputes, slanders, gossip, arrogance, disturbances; 12:21 I am afraid that when I come again my God may humiliate me before you, and I may mourn over many of those who have sinned in the past and not repented of the impurity, immorality and sensuality which they have practiced. From Strongs: a whispering, i.e. secret slandering ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The second I'd like to add is that God works with us on one thing at a time. If you are questioning if these are OK, is it possible that you are being convicted over reading these?? My pastor once said that if it is in the bible as being wrong then it is a sin, if it is not in the bible it is not a sin until you are convicted by the HS for it. Once you are convicted and you do obey the HS then it becomes a sin. We are responsible for what we know. My advice?? Seek God and judge yourself.

I wrote an article just today on my political blog concerning this and other hypocricies of the neo-libs. It discusses the issues that have been raised here as well as a few others. The Constitution actually says: In the interest of saving space as well as time to repeat my post, here is the link to the article I wrote: http://conservechristian.blogspot.com/2006...s-neo-pref.html

In Ohio we used to have the option of putting our SS number on our DL's or not. I opted to not have it on their because of the fact that it would make it eaier for anyone who stole or found my DL to use it in order to get credit cards etc.... using my name and SS number. When I renewed my DL a week ago I found out that it is no longer an option to have your SS nuber on your DL. It is no longer allowed.