Manji

Yeah, it seems that maybe there is an understanding and closeness with God that things like, going out for a swim, playing basket ball, or jogging become unattractive since it has no attraction due to your desire to serve God with your whole life. I dunno if Judo is unattractive because you are naturally that way or because you're telling yourself that. I wouldn't do it unless I was naturally that way but that's me. So I have simple question floatingaxe. Is basketball, swimming, and jogging unattractive too? Would it be a sin for you to induldge in those activities pesonally?

Interesting as you would ask that. But I think there are people out that would go so far as to say that for them personally, Judo is a sin. And I wonder, who else here agrees with this idea. That you can have a desire to be so one with God, serve God, give everything to God, that Judo practice would be a sin for you, because you want to serve and give all of you to God. not a part but all. Do you think that those who do this are in the right for doing it, or are they just kidding themselves?

In everyone's opinion, is it possible to practice Judo and be a good Christian? To be right with God in that when you die, practicing Judo was not a sin. That you will go to Heaven, having been a Christian and everything else AND BY practicing Judo too. Doing both. not one or the other. Everything Christian for getting into Heaven and doing Judo.

Manji... While it is commendable that you do not reject Jesus as Lord and saviour of mankind, do you accept Jesus Christ as Lord of your life? Personally? Even the devil can say that Jesus came to save the world, but can you say He saved YOU, personally? Do you have a relationship with Him? Do you walk through life with Him daily? Do you obey Him and follow after Him? Do you talk with Him? Does He speak to you? If any of these answers are "no", then I suggest that you invite Jesus Christ into your life and ask Him to make your life His home--today. Blessings! Yes. And Jesus is showing me that Meditation is not a sin.

So, what if the Bible talks about meditating on the word of God. It does not mean you can not meditate on the present moment. No sin in that. Until you show scripture that says, do not meditate on the present moment then I'm sorry not a sin. I do not practice Buddhism with meditation I practice meditation with meditation. a CHRISTIAN TOLD me that a CHRISTIAN PASTOR said meditation is okay practice. You can be a Christian and meditate as I do. Meditating on the present moment is no different than practicing Judo it is an excercise that's not in the Bible.

I like to listen to linkin Park. When I listen to it I smile and get happy. When I practice Taichi my body feels good so I feel good. When I practice meditation I feel happy. And all these things are not of God, therefore I have sinned against God because there's no snow balls chance in Hell I can be a good Christian and do these things too. Well that's sad. I am not going to think like that. I can do all these things and be a Christian. I say Amen to that. Who here says amen too? That's all I got to say about not doing Tai Chi. Maybe feeling happy and saying that happiness is God's love because it is so strong is false. I mean, that's really all I am saying. I am saying that which I practice makes me happy and I am a Christian as I do it because I do not reject Jesus as Lord and savior of man kind. There's no way I am ever gonna deny that. But if some day, a pastor tells me that practicing Judo is a sin cause its not in Bible, I know I will continue doing it, because, just because it ain't in the Bible doesn't mean its not acceptable.

OKay.... You're telling me this because??? What's your point and what does this have to do with what I have been saying. I am not a disbeliever in Christ. So, any hoot, I'll do that and still practice mindfullness&meditation since pastors teach that it is not a sin to do so. So, what do you have to say about that?

Jesus told us that we would suffer here since as Christians we are no longer of this world and the world would hate us. Look at the lives of the early Christians and how they were killed, tortured etc. Look at the lives of Christians in areas where they are under heavy persecution. This is a false teaching from a false religion. Manji one cannot follow this and follow the Lord too. You must turn away from this. Phi 4:8 Finally, my brothers, whatever things are true, whatever things are honest, whatever things are right, whatever things are pure, whatever things are lovely, whatever things are of good report; if there is any virtue and if there is any praise, think on these things. False teachings are not good, no matter how attractive they are. I have spent a lot of time with this question. Ive been told Tai Chi would greatly help my pain and stiffness. Ive spent a lot of time considering whether or not I should do it and ease my pain. Yet I cant do it. The foundation for these practices comes from the philosophy and belief systems of other religions. Something in me will not let me take that up. I believe that is the Holy Spirit convicting me, telling me these things are bad. I believe, especially in your case since you are easily swayed by these teachings, that it is wrong to practice yoga. That's not what I mean by suffering. I am talking about Human suffering. Please go back and read what it says. It is not a religion. It is a philosphy. Although there is Daoist philosophy explained about tai chi. Does that make the practice of that excercise make it wrong? That's really sad. I mean, thinking this way prevents you from being happy. I mean, the Bible does talk about takeing care of the body although we should be more concerned about our spirit than the flesh, I think the Bible also says to take care of your body. Who cares about the philosophy. If the body benefits by all means do. It doesn't go against your religion.

1 Corinthians 10: 13 No temptation has taken you but what is common to man; but God is faithful, who will not allow you to be tempted above what you are able, but with the temptation also will make a way to escape, so that you may be able to bear it . Philippians 4: 13 I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me. Jude 1:20 But you, beloved, building yourselves up in your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Spirit, 21 keep yourselves in the love of God, eagerly awaiting the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ to everlasting life. 1Thessalonians 5:22 Abstain from every appearance of evil 1Jo 5:21 Little children, guard yourselves from idols. Amen. 1Co 10:14 Therefore, my dearly beloved, flee from idolatry. And this is seen where in scripture? This is false teaching from a false religion. This is the danger to you from practicing this meditation from Buddhism.

While life is not always a bed of roses--it is not meant to be one of suffering when you come to Christ...in Jesus we are reconciled to God. With Jesus, we have His authority over the devil. John 10:10 The thief does not come except to steal, and to kill, and to destroy. I have come that they may have life, and that they may have it more abundantly. The only thing we are attached to is the world and self. The world system is Satan's realm. Without Christ, we have no hope of overcoming that pull on our lives. What you wrote is not true in the least. That is erroneous and of the devil. There is no truth to your statement that suffering can be eradicated through human activity. Nothing man can do can alleviate it, or erase it. The only way out of suffering is by Jesus Christ and you have completely negated His atoning sacrifice! You are propogating a lie from Hell. There is no happiness apart from knowing Jesus Christ, the Son of the Living God. These teachings I recited here have been around approximately 500 years before the coming of Christ. I guess I'll just have to learn about Christ to understand how to find freedom from suffering is attained in very exact detail. I mean, the Dharma teaches about mindfulness of the five hinderances like, sensual desire, ill will, sloth/torpour, restlessness, and doubt. I need to understand more about how does Christ take away your suffering. I mean, we as humans gotta do something and if that means allowing Jesus to take over how do we do that then? Well, is Yoga practice wrong?

How am I kidding myself by what I just said. Is that all you are gonna say? Dude, why don't YOU quit kidding me? How about that brother?

There is nothing I have practiced that conflicts with the Christian God. Not, meditation, not mindfulness. There's no way you can say God forbids concentrating on the present moment is a sin. How in the world, can focusing on the present moment be a sin against God. That's just mathmatically, and conductively impossible. You just can't do it. It is not possible.

Meditation as you are describing it IS of the devil. The emphasis is on self, not on the only true Living Lord. He calls us to meditate on His Word, not on keeping the mind present with the body in a holistic way. This is NOT of God. You need to turn away from this. How is meditation that I am talking about is of the devil? I mean, how? So, to focus on the present moment is a sin? No way... It sounds like you are saying, drawing a picture of a tree for self satisfactions is not of the living God so it is a sin. Am I right?

Can you explain more on why you say that? Because the Bible is not clear about understanding the nature of all things as being impermanent is a sin. Sorry but the Bible probably doesn't say that. When I think about that, I am turning away from God? When I practice Yoga I am turning away from God? When I meditate, I am turning away from God? Surely that can not be the case.

Now, I did just skim through what you wrote so, if I missed anything please bare with me. Now all that you posted about meditating on the word of God is great and Awesome. But no where there did I see that it forbids meditation in the practice I mentioned earlier. So.... Tell me if these three things are of the devil or not: 1. Life means suffering. To live means to suffer, because the human nature is not perfect and neither is the world we live in. During our lifetime, we inevitably have to endure physical suffering such as pain, sickness, injury, tiredness, old age, and eventually death; and we have to endure psychological suffering like sadness, fear, frustration, disappointment, and depression. Although there are different degrees of suffering and there are also positive experiences in life that we perceive as the opposite of suffering, such as ease, comfort and happiness, life in its totality is imperfect and incomplete, because our world is subject to impermanence. This means we are never able to keep permanently what we strive for, and just as happy moments pass by, we ourselves and our loved ones will pass away one day, too. 2. The origin of suffering is attachment. The origin of suffering is attachment to transient things and the ignorance thereof. Transient things do not only include the physical objects that surround us, but also ideas, and -in a greater sense- all objects of our perception. Ignorance is the lack of understanding of how our mind is attached to impermanent things. The reasons for suffering are desire, passion, ardour, pursue of wealth and prestige, striving for fame and popularity, or in short: craving and clinging. Because the objects of our attachment are transient, their loss is inevitable, thus suffering will necessarily follow. Objects of attachment also include the idea of a "self" which is a delusion, because there is no abiding self. What we call "self" is just an imagined entity, and we are merely a part of the ceaseless becoming of the universe. 3. The cessation of suffering is attainable. The cessation of suffering can be attained through nirodha. Nirodha means the unmaking of sensual craving and conceptual attachment. The third noble truth expresses the idea that suffering can be ended by attaining dispassion. Nirodha extinguishes all forms of clinging and attachment. This means that suffering can be overcome through human activity, simply by removing the cause of suffering. Attaining and perfecting dispassion is a process of many levels that ultimately results in the state of Nirvana. Nirvana means freedom from all worries, troubles, complexes, fabrications and ideas. Nirvana is not comprehensible for those who have not attained it. I ask everyone reading these posts to post their thoughts and opinion. Do you agree with floatingaxe, or do you agree attaining happiness by understanding the nature of all things can cause an experience of happiness so great that you know it is the love of God? Also, who here would practice Tai chi or Yoga? How about you FloatingAxe? Would you practice Yoga or Tai Chi? Or is it forbiden according to the Christian perspective?

So, when I meditate to be present. TO keep the mind present with the body. To not think of the future or the past and to just focus on the present by concentrating or focusing on the breath so, that I am not Fragmented and not lose touch with a holistic sense of myself. That is of the devil? Show me an educated priest that would actually explain why this form of meditation is of the devil. I would really like to read it. Last I heard from two other hardcore Christians, they said that their Pastors explained to them that meditation is not wrong. That meditation is good. Do you still consider meditation of the devil?

Is meditation of the devil?

Sorry to bring this topic back from the grave, but I have to admit I have been being coy with everyone here. I was being so because I had some worries that what I was trying to share might not get shared, but now I longer have that worry. So, I will stop being coy and just try to be as honest as I possible can, God helpingly, with everyone. Okay, this is what it is all about: I have skimmed through articles and such that Buddhists are generally very happy people. There was a moment in my life when I felt despair, fear, anxiety, sadness, worry, depression, so on and so fourth. Life just felt so overwhelming. The smallest problem was too great. I felt like I could parish at any moment. I've said to myself that I am gonna kill myself. But because I fear to do that because I believe suicide equals hell I whon't do it. Surely hell is worse than great sadness on earth. But the desire to give up is there and suffering just drains me and goes on. I wonder, how am I gonna live life from here on? How am I gonna survive? One day this negative feeling got so strong that I started reading my Bible but I found no relief. I went into my father's libary and found one of his books titled, "Meditation in Action" As I began reading it I felt some of my pain quenched. The ideas and concepts were so interesting that I searched for a Buddhist forum and then found these audios of this Buddhist teacher. And listening to him really calmed me. I really enjoyed listening to what he was teaching. I loved it! It was so useful! I was getting alot from it. As I applied the dharma to my life my pain and suffering began to just melt away like snow in the sun. I felt a positive sense of well being and being centered. This was great. Recently, I got back from a funeral and everything the pastors were saying and preaching were very touching. I really loved and appreciated it. I haven't gone to church much but, I have never heard a sermon (If you can call it that) that was so meaningful before. I feel in some way, I have recieved something spiritual from that experience. Days after the funeral, I felt as though my mind was just sorta starting to put the, "nature of all things into perspective", according to the Dharma, that I began to feel a really high sensation of happiness. And this happiness was different. This happiness was coursing through me and was not just a happy state of being, but that I indeed was being loved by something. That something was loving me and that "it" had always loved me, and never stops loving me. It's just that I was asleep to "Its" love. But since I was beggining to awaken to it, I was noticing that it was talking to me or loving me. This is God I thought. I don't know if I am just over reacting to this sense of happiness&well-being attained from practicing of the Dharma, with receiving God's Love, or not. But that is what I am associating it with. So, that is what I am talking about. Thank You.

Leading an ethical life according the commandments like, Do not kill, Do not take that which is not given, do not lie, do not engage in sexual misconduct, do not covet, are not only commandments to follow or else. Or when temptation comes you just restrain yourself, but rather you follow them because your heart is naturally that way. That your very nature and character is so that you naturally behave in following these commandments. Those who's heart is naturally this way are spiritually mature. When I sin I realize I still need to work on it. When you are in trouble, learn how to get out of trouble. That's pretty good advice. I am not sure what the holy spirit is but I can say that when I confess to the lord what I have done wrong, ask for God's forgiveness, and sincerely attempt to change my ways, I feel very positive and I feel that God is no longer angry at me. I have a clear conscious. I'm confuse because you say you have accepted the Lord as your savior and yet you do not know what the Holy Spirit is? It's a part of acceptance and stepping from the dark in to the light. It's the Holy Spirit that convicts you of your sin and intercedes for you on your behalf when you fail besides asking the Lord for forgivness. The Holy Spirit is God, The Son, and God The Father, Three persons in One. And if one isn't "religious" what difference does the ten commandments mean to them? Those whose heart is naturally not spirit filled unless they have choosen to follow God. We all know what is right and what is wrong. We know that killing is wrong, stealing is wrong but it's the HS that convicts, not natures way, Gods Way. Stepping from the dark into the light is elightenment which is the Holy Spirit. When a person is enlightened they follow these guidlines. This enlightenment is the Holy Spirit. God is telling you that this is wrong. Your heart knows that this is wrong so you do the right thing. I'm not sure I understand what the word "Convict means but, when your heart is naturally in a way that is not tempted, that is that you are naturally that way. You are naturally that way because of the Holy Spirit. One's heart can naturally become this way, by realization. That realization is the Holy Spirit. This naturally way is God's way. When actions cause harm, pain, suffering, and reduces happiness to one's self surely are actions that are wrong and sinful before God's eyes.

Leading an ethical life according the commandments like, Do not kill, Do not take that which is not given, do not lie, do not engage in sexual misconduct, do not covet, are not only commandments to follow or else. Or when temptation comes you just restrain yourself, but rather you follow them because your heart is naturally that way. That your very nature and character is so that you naturally behave in following these commandments. Those who's heart is naturally this way are spiritually mature. When I sin I realize I still need to work on it. When you are in trouble, learn how to get out of trouble. That's pretty good advice. I am not sure what the holy spirit is but I can say that when I confess to the lord what I have done wrong, ask for God's forgiveness, and sincerely attempt to change my ways, I feel very positive and I feel that God is no longer angry at me. I have a clear conscious.

You already know what they are. Is this a test? No I have not. I have never heard of those things you mentioned. I just looked them up on the net and I can see that I have never heard of those things. Perhaps more simply said: The less worldy we become, the more spirtualy we become, the more spiritually we become, the more God's presense sinks in. "God is what gives us the openess to recieve the knowledge of life. I give all the glory to Him who fills me with the fullfilment that there are things I didn't understand before and now have become aware of." By being open to God, through being less worldy you recieve the knowledge of life. This leads you to surrender to God.

I have accepted Jesus because not only have I always believed in the miracle of the virgin birth, the miracles Jesus did, what he taught, and the ressurection. That he bore the weight of man's sin, but I remember at the funeral that everything the pastors were saying really hit home and meant so much to me. So, surely I have accepted Christ as my lord and savior. But em... About the nature of all things. The nature of all things is putting the worldly things into perspective. Realizing that they are impermanent. Realizing that clinging to things that are impermanent causes suffereing, and that but not being attached liberates from suffering, and living a life to realize that, puts life into perspective. When I mention Mindfulness I mean by being mindful of forces that may cause you to not realize what I said above. Like sensual desire. a hinderance. If you buy things to make yourself feel happy, you could get into dept and not be happy. If you buy things to be happy you may not be happy. When realizing that hinderance you do not have to engage in it. your sensual desire can be a hinderance that ruins your ability to see things clearly as they are. When you filter reality through a hinderance like sensual desire it can cause to make decisions that are not wise or will be regretable later on. The goal is to obtain a reliable source of happiness. Another example would be sensual desire to eat more cake cause eating cake feels good. But, if you eat some cake that causes you to get sick cause you've had too much cake then you were lead by your sensual desire to eat the cake. By seeing if what you are doing brings what you seek helps you see reality as it really is and not as it appears. You make decisions that allow you to be happy. Be intolerant to your suffering but be tolerant to your happiness. There are other hinderances but by not being entangled in them and seeing them as they come and not engaging in them cause you to see things as they are and causes you to be happy. I have experience this happiness before, but recently this happiness was so strong that I was aware that indeed this happiness is God's constant love to me that I am awakening to. That's sorta what I mean by understanding the nature of all things and being mindful to help you stay seeing that clearly.

What are those Horizen east?

God is what gives us the openess to recieve the knowledge of life. I give all the glory to Him who fills me with the fullfilment that there are things I didn't understand before and now have become aware of. Be more spacific. Really try to explain exactly what that is. What is it precisely that God gives you that gives you the knowledge of life. that fills you with fullfilment? Because, that which you are describing I am describing. God has given me the openess to recieve the knowledge if life. As I spiritually grow, that is what I recieve. This is what you mean right? I believe we are saying basically the same thing. When you have accepted Christ as your Lord and Savior, I believe our spirits live on a higher plane and are given the gift of wisdom and knowledge like just knowing that God's word is the truth, like stepping in to the light from the darkness. That's what it's like for me and as I grow more in my Sprituality, I learn more as God allows. Just as you pray and meditate on Him you rise to a higher level and become more spiritual and with that comes more knowledge. I just had to come back and edit this post to ask you, since I haven't read the entire thread, have you accepted Jesus because billie is correct, you cannot get to God except through the Son and with the Son comes the spiritual gifts and knowledge. If you have not accepted Jesus then we are not talking about the same thing. Pagans believe they have the knowlege because of their love of mother earth but are also contradictory in their teachings because they also believe in witchcraft which goes against God all together. I have accepted Jesus. By awakening to the nature of all things, is when you experience God. I experienced that. How did you experience this

God is what gives us the openess to recieve the knowledge of life. I give all the glory to Him who fills me with the fullfilment that there are things I didn't understand before and now have become aware of. Be more spacific. Really try to explain exactly what that is. What is it precisely that God gives you that gives you the knowledge of life. that fills you with fullfilment? Because, that which you are describing I am describing. God has given me the openess to recieve the knowledge if life. As I spiritually grow, that is what I recieve. This is what you mean right? I believe we are saying basically the same thing. When you have accepted Christ as your Lord and Savior, I believe our spirits live on a higher plane and are given the gift of wisdom and knowledge like just knowing that God's word is the truth, like stepping in to the light from the darkness. That's what it's like for me and as I grow more in my Sprituality, I learn more as God allows. Just as you pray and meditate on Him you rise to a higher level and become more spiritual and with that comes more knowledge. I just had to come back and edit this post to ask you, since I haven't read the entire thread, have you accepted Jesus because billie is correct, you cannot get to God except through the Son and with the Son comes the spiritual gifts and knowledge. If you have not accepted Jesus then we are not talking about the same thing. Pagans believe they have the knowlege because of their love of mother earth but are also contradictory in their teachings because they also believe in witchcraft which goes against God all together. I have accepted Jesus. By awakening to the nature of all things, is when you experience God. I experienced that.