Inusia

back to the primary question. I like madonna. I neither justify nor judge her - just like her music and voice. I used to seperate 2 subjects - personality of singer(including life style) and his creative work. In my opinion Madonna keeps step with modern music - she is always new and unexpectable. That's true that some of her actions are non-christian, but she grew up in such a surrounding,that it was impossible to lead a christian life. I prefer not to judge her. When a woman manages to get a world from nothing(from $10 in a pocket in Big Apple with no friends and relatives to help, as I rememmer) she deserves a respect.She could have been broken, could have given up but she survived in a cruel world. I know very few people that have such a strength.

I believe that this is a typical behaviour of ill-bred children. If this bugs you (I see it does) you can start bringing up respect towards hosts maybe you have talent for this. To tell you the truth I have never managed to do this, 'cause I don't have my own kids. I know it would be easier if I had.

I'm glad that my thread is still alive and I can read your individual thoughts! I've noticed, that offence always takes its place next to love and friendship. 'cause if you love somebody you always demand some kind of respect and care in return; in other words, you expect this person to be tolerant with you. And sometimes offence comes up from nowhere - just because you think something is going not the way it used to... There are moments you can't explain why you feel blue about someone's behaviour (or words adressed to you), but all the same you can't help it. Maybe in this case its better not to tell about your bitter feelings?

Wow! Thank you all for your sincere answers - I was excited reading 'em. I have another question about personal offences. Do we always have to tell our offenders about what we feel or such straightforwardness should have some borders? I have only 4 people in my life, who can easily offend me - 'cause I am very sensitive to offensive actions and words of people I treasure. Other people opinions and actions can't affect me. And I always try to clarify the situation. I believe that there is no use to hide your feelings if something hurts you, that's why I prefer to discuss, not to ignore. It would be great to get your opinions!

It definitely is!Thank you! You know my offences are similar to yours - I don't like when my close friends laugh at me or tell me what I have to do not leaving me any choice. Personally I don't laugh and criticize other people 'cause I know that everyone should do what he thinks and believes is the best for him.

I visit church sometimes. When I lived in NY city I visited David Wilkerson Church(Times Square Church) every sunday. I definitely felt God's presence there. Now I live in Kyiv (Ukraine) and when I am not busy I try to visit every so often. But to be frank I don't feel high spirits here

Could you remmember last events, that caused your personal offence?I find it realy cognitive to get acquainted with human's most popular reasons for offence and their deepest feelings about it. I just want all of you to be sincere sharing them in this topic.

to alien: Thank you 4 your suggestion - I'll find this book. You are a wise man (I assume you are 30 or older cause I have definitely read the lines written by a mature person).But people differ - 'cause everyone has own nature depending of the life exsperience. That's great that you can refute our right to divorce, but it was given to us legally by God(!) even though he said "for the hardness of your heart"(which doesn't mean that cruel is one who asks for divorce but who cheated on his second half)... I have known one faithful women who struggled for her marriage over 20 years. Her husbund was a catholic and though he seemed to be a very religious man he has bitten her and their son, he was under control when someone tried to dispute with him. He quoted Bible, 'cause it says that husband owns the life of his wife and she must do everithing he says; and if she doesn't - she is bad wife and deserves for punishment. He lost his job. She has been working day and night to pay the bills. She told that she wanted to keep their marriage because of their little son. But time passed and at the age of 16(!) their son bought a gun to kill his father as he hated him for his terror and for all evil he did to his mom. Fortunately this boy didn't manage to do it. 6 month ago she separated from his husband.Nobody judges her for this.And what do you think?

I also think that some people take this novels as a serious insult to religion and I'm trying to analyse all the negative opinions about this topic to find out why this would happen...

In my opinion this is another interpretation of God's commandment - He told us to be as respectful to our neigbours as we are towards ourselves. In other words - all the little things you do will end up coming back to you. Sounds like a stimilus, doesn't it?

to alien: I can see your point. It's my luck that I have never been cheated by beloved. Mostly I can go along with your statement. But I used to think that God doesn't want us to be unhappy and we don't have to suffer that much for the lifetime. We're born to devote our lives to Him.

to: Other one Job's family is another conversation: God would never allow Satan to tempt them 'cause He knew they were not as mature as Job in their belief. From their words it's clear that they blamed God of making EVIL. Actually Satan wasn't really interested in tempting Job's family. He wanted to ruin God's favourite.

I don't believe in future with a man who has been with other woman. And I don't think anyone should save his marriage, unless God intended that.

So, can you forgive infidelity of your second half and continue your marriage, accepting the disgusting cheatery, sharing your bed and your private life?Does it make any sense?I think it is better to forgive and to let the betrayer go...

I am not a fan. I have just read and made some conclusions. And they seem to me as computer quest - lots of enigmas to solve and the plot just attracts attention. But I didn't take them too serious. I have just devoted 3% of my lifetime for reading them...

Why don't we learn to read between the lines instead of sticking to the word "evil"?Let's think about the result of this evil: Job's belief became stronger though he suffered too much at first. Our mighty God won the bet: he showed Satan that he can tempt Job but he can't break Job's Love to God;and as God always likes to test our deep feelings he made sure that Job was really faithful, even though He knew that from the very beginning.. So was it evil only at first sight or was it evil at all?God only tests us by different methods, he doesn't do any evil. And the other thing is that He never gives us troubles we can't solve. In other words - he would never allow Satan to tempt Job, if Job wasn't strong enough...

Thank you Littlejoe!Maybe I should use your lines to convince my "inconvincible" friends that reading such books is not a sin.This is a good point to justify myself...

Yhank you both for your answers. I agree with with both of you. The reason I've started this topic was the reaction of Vatican to the premiere of Da Vinci Code. When the scandal began I thought that the whole thing was misapprehended by some churches. Some of my religious friends told me that they even didn't want to read and to watch this Dan's heresy. I have also read all his novels. But I don't think people have to take them as serious threat to church.We have to make the difference between real things and made up.

Hi! This topic is for those who has read at least one of Dan's Brown novels. I would be grateful for different points of view about next questions: 1)Do these books bring any evil to christians?Why yes/why not? 2)Are they useful to read? 3)Can they create some doubts in modern society about Bible?