The_Patriot21

theres nothing necessarily wrong with the 9mm, its more of a personal preference thing. It will get the job done, its just a really unpredictable round. As far as carrying it, its a lil large, 4" barrel, but I have a good inside the waistband holster that conceals it rather easily, I also have a shoulder holster if i got a jacket on. I have a 1911-wife just got it for me for my birthday, and I love it to death and will likely carry it when im out in the backwoods, but it is really large to be carrying around town.

I personally do not like the 9mm the round is extremly light weight, and fast and it makes it unpredictable. There have been cases where carhart coats have deflected them enough to where they were innefective, and more where even a hollowpoint went through and through and got an innocent bystander, but thats just my personal tastes, my normal carry is a taurus pt 25/7 in the .40 S&W caliber. Its a slower heavier round, which means it wont travel as far and less chance of collateral damage. I never carry with a round in the chamber-to me thats just asking to shoot yourself in the foot, and Im practiced enough that I can draw and chamber a round and fire it in the same amount of time a person can draw a gun with a rounded chamber, and theres normally 15 in the mag and I carry one extra mag most of the time. Its just about the perfect size for me. Every once in awhile in the winter time, or if Im out in the woods camping I carry my .45 but I rarely carry that in town, its big heavy and a bit on the overkill side. And as far as carrying it, like I said its a tool, and if someone threatens my family or I come across someone whos threatening someone else, heres the way I look at it-if i walk into a situation where someone is pointing a gun at either a member of my family or another innocent person, if I don't do anything, that innocent person will die, and someone will be without a son, or daughter or mother or a father, and that someone didn't deserve it, and if I dont do anything, thats on me. And I figure, if the person doing the attacking, if hes willing to pick up that weapon and kill someone with it, willingly accepts the consequences of said action, so I would rather shoot the person whos in my mind, asking for it, then let them shoot the innocent person who didnt ask for it.

In that case nebula you are right, that mom had a gun, and wasnt afraid to use it and she did and it likely saved her and her daughters life. Now, on the other side of it, if she had that gun, and wasnt comfortable using it, and all she did was bluff-what do you think would have happenned? Its like I said-if your going to carry any weapon-especially a gun, you had better be willing to use it if it comes down to it, or chances are that weapon will be used on you.

Your absolutly right there are other ways to protect yourself. Like peper spray or tazers. Now, one could argue-and be correct, in arguing there are situations where a gun is required, there is a certain percentage of the population that is immune to pepperspray, and tazers are very range limited, however, especially if your not in a high crime area the chances of being in such a situation are extremely rare. There are even situations where having 3 guns and enough ammo to hold off an army wouldnt do you any good, but again those are rare. Ive even met some really extreme fanatics that have told me I needed to carry multiple means-pepper spray, tazer, and a gunfor "various levels" of defense. Well, thats an excessive amount of hardware to me, it really is, I think its up to each individual person to decide for themselves how to defend themselves-whether it be hand to hand, pepper spray, or a gun. Sure, I think it would be great if more people carried guns-regardless of country, however, if the person isn't comfortable with one then they shouldn't carry one. You should never carry a weapon of any sort if your not willing to use it, the worst thing you can do is have a gun-and be mugged, and the mugger call your bluff, and your not willing to use it because then it will only be used against you. If your going to carry-you need to be willing, and comfortable using it if needed, if not then you should carry something you are comfortable using. What your most comfortable using is the best method of self defense for you-and if your most comfortable with a tazer, then that is the most effective way of defending yourself. For me, like I said Im not carrying an excessive amount of weaponry on me, Im carrying what covers the widest range, chances are in my area with what I do, the worst Id deal with is someone trying to steal drug money, and most of them are pretty mild, the mere site of a firearm will send them running, so its effective there-though we do have some violent crime, (also the occasional cougar that likes to go through town) having it there to use is a nice feature, it covers a wide area for me. Im also comfortable using it-I practice shooting regularly and am at peace if I have to use it.

I will be voting for pretty much anyone but Obama (hoping for santoruum though) I think Obama has been the worse thing to happen to the country in years-his idea of fixing the economy is to spend more money we dont have (which is what got us here in the first place) which is only a bandaid to the economy (it will come back to bite us) plus he has absolutly no regard for the US constition (his own words) While I respect him, I have no respect for his actions in office and will not be voting for him again.

Candice, part of it as you pointed out, is cultural, the quote Oldzimm listed there, to an American we understand the meaning behind it-that its not necessarily aimed at any one person, on its own. However, I think Ive actually been blessed, in that getting to know you and other people from places like Australia, Ive come to at least understand where your coming from, and I can see why you don't understand it as such, and I think your right, it should have been clarified a little more, if nothing else for the cultural difference. I also see, in australia you are also blessed to be free-and without having a gun where a quote like that may/may not apply. Just keep in mind there are several parts of the world where you don't have that, where the governments are horrible, slaughter people left and right and the citizens have no way of protecting themselves. Another point is that even in australia violent crimes still happen, but even more so, all power (except Gods power) corrupts. What is a free nation today, may not be one tomorrow, time has proven that over and over again. Republics and democracys usually turn into dictatorships, and that is one of the reasons the founding fathers came up with the second ammendment-as a safety net against America turning into a dictatorship, a way for the people to protect not only their family, but the country from itself. Now, Honestly I think it would be awesome if everyone owned a gun, yes, but I dont think they have to. I think everyone should have the right to choose to own/carry or not, and you cant have that right if guns arnt allowed. If you don't want to have one you have the right to do so, but if you do then you also have the right to own one, the only thing I think should be required is gun education-I think everyone should at least know proper gun handling and safety and the laws about them. proper gun education cuts down on gun accidents-plain and simple. Knowing how to handle one safely doesnt mean you have to have one, it just means that if your walking down the road and some idiot throws a gun out the window and it lands in front of you, you know what to do whether it be as simple as calling the cops or emptying it to keep kids from accidently firing it until the cops show up.

now, to play fair, the quote is worded more towards an individual, but the spirit of the quote is more of a generalization, which is why oldzimm came back with saying that. . .

Im in agreement with oldzimm here, if it wernt for citizens having guns, America would not be free today-we would still be part of great britain. The American revolution was not fought by a rich government buying its soldiers guns, but by farmers, shopowners, and yes, even clergy folk who took up their own private weapons and went to war for a cause they believed in-freedom from oppression. Believe it or not, entire platoons in the revolution were churches-it was not uncommon for the pastor of a church to show up on sunday carrying a rifle, call the men out, and the pastor led all the men of the church to war as their leader. You of course, won't find that in todays text books-but it is a documented fact, as is the declaration of independence founded on 27 biblical principles, and 50 (possibly 52) of the original 55 members of the continental congress were not only members of their local churches, but active members, deacons, elders, pastors. Sure, there are countries today like austraila and britain that remain free without guns, but here comes the question, if they were to turn into a dictatorship and strip their citizens of their rights, who would stop them? Theres really only two options-A: hope another country comes in and takes care of it, which isnt likely unless their making nuclear weapons, or B: their citizens rise up and stop them, which has the best chance for success, only they can't because they have no weapons. Do I think everyone should have a gun? no, thats up to them, but I do think that everyone should have the right to have one, and I also think everyone should know how to handle one safely, even if they dont like them. Libya, right now figured out why you should fear your citizen-they got away with it, but if we look at syria right now, their government is running rampant through their country, shooting lots of innocent people. Do the rebels have guns? sure they do, but the syrians have more and dont care if the people theyre shooting at have them or not. Right now, the rebels are likely going to need international aid, or more guns and more people to fight because I don't see them winning, and that is one country where I think they have every right to rebel. Would I like everyone to have a gun? sure it would be good, do I expect everyone to? no, and I respect those who don't wish to own one, but I also stand that the right to own them should be maintained. I believe in gun education, not gun control, and lets look at it this way, if you dont like guns and dont want to own one thats fine, and you dont have any in the house, thats fine to. But lets look at your kids, now their in your house, theyve never seen a gun before because you don't have one, and their over at a friends house, and their not so bright dad leaves a gun on his coffee table, and your kids find it, and since theyve never seen one think its a toy and start playing with it. Or, your out hiking and find one or your kid hands you one, you should know how to handle it safely, and the rules involved, and if your kids have a basic knowledge theyll know not to play with the gun they found at their dads place. For example, I read this article awhile back over in britain, this guy found a shotgun in his backyard. He, thinking he was doing the right thing, picked it up, unloaded it, and carried it down to the local police station and turned it in. Seems smart right? well he was arrested on the spot-according to the law, even having a gun in his hands counts as possession, if the guy had called the cops and not touched it, he would have been fine. If he had a basic gun education, especially concerning the laws of the land he wouldn't of ended up in jail. In America we read of kids getting shot all the time on accident because they find a gun and not realizing what it is. If it were me, instead of putting this "dont even say gun" in schools, they should require a basic gun safety course to kids. No im not saying give them guns and teach them how to shoot-least not an a young age, what I mean is sit them down, and show them this is a gun, its not a toy, and this is what you do if you find one. And each year go a little more advanced, to the point when they leave high school they have at least been taught how to safely handle one and store one. I think that would greatly reduce gun accidents.

I would prefer if you would leave the lights alone, I like to see what Im aiming at

that they are that they are. Gotta love them texans.

and people automatically assume that people are the only things you have to worry about. I spend a great deal of time out in the wilderness, where a bear or cougar are just as deadly as a gangster, and contrary to public belief pepper spray does not always work. and the chances of growing old in america without a gun? pretty high. but I leave as little to chance as I can-and guns can be an instrument of death, but they can also be an instrument of life.

oh, I dont argue there arnt other ways to defend yourself and you family, and I dont hold it against anyone who doesnt want to use a gun. I personally see them as a helpful tool as well as a good hobby. On the same note, if we dont want to censor free speech, we also shouldnt censor the ability to protect ourselves with guns.

and viole, they are valid, Jesus did away with the old covenant, not the old testament. The old covenant dealt with how you entered heaven, under it you had to follow the law or your out, and if you didnt you had to offer sacrifices to get to heaven. The new covenant, Jesus IS the sacrifice. If doing away with the old covenant meant ignoring the entire OT like you suggested, then there would be no purpose in having it in scripture. Romans 7:7 What shall we say, then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! Indeed I would not have known what sin was except through the law. For I would not have known what coveting really was if the law had not said, "Do not covet." 2 Timothy 3:16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness Doing away with the old covenant was doing away with the old method of getting into heaven. Add onto that Jesus never said He came to destroy the law, but to fulfill it. and you skipped luke 22:36 where in the NT we are instructed to sell our purse and purchase a sword (they didnt have guns back then) and youve forgotten that even Peter carried a sword, and no I dont buy that Jesus allowed peter to carry it to set Him up for a fail.

my view is, that I believe I not only have the right to protect my family, but the moral obligation to, both spirtually, mentally, and physically, regardless of the crime rate around me, and that if the good Lord blesses me with tools to help with that job, like guns, then I will use them. And the good Lord has blessed me, both with a family and the means to protect them, in more ways then one. For example, I try to protect them spiritually, we pray, study the bible, go to church and I try to be a good christian head of household. I try to filter what my kid sees on tv or hears on the radio, and I intend to be involved in her and my wives lives, to be there for them through their struggles and their needs. I also protect them phyisically-I found a nice safe place to live in a good neighborhood with good neighbors, I dont take them places where they would be at high risk, like the seedier parts of town at night or rowdy bars, etc. Most of the things I do to protect my family from physical harm are preventative like that. With that being said sometimes bad things happen to good people, and they happen to the safest of people. So yes, I carry a gun when Im out and about, yes I have a gun within arms reach of my bed at night (locked up and protected from young hands, yet easily accessible by me) Do I ever want to use it to shoot someone? no absolutly not, and I pray I am never in such a situation. However, I would rather have it and never need it, then need it and not have it. be prepared is my motto here. Now, lets add this into the factor, guns are also a good hobby. lets look at cars, lots of people love cars as hobbys, they clean them up restore them, race them, automobiles are a huge factor in the america economy and Im sure others as well, they are a means of transportation, and they are also a hobby, people pore lots of money into them. No one says a person is a bad person because they bought and restored that old 73 GTO, or built a stock car racer, because that is their hobby. Now, lets look at guns theyre just as much of a hobby-people buy them, some people restore old guns, and collect them, some use them for competition shooting, and even hunting which is one hobby I also partake in. None of these hobbies hurt anyone in and of themselves. Yes, gun accidents occur yes people get hurt from them. yes, people die from them. However, people get hurt and die in automobile accidents to. In fact, if we want to look at statistics, more people die from automobile accidents every year in the US then gun accidents and gun crimes combined. Yet, theres no sudden cryout to ban cars. you can step off your front porch wrong and fall and kill yourself. Cars are only as safe as their drivers and the drivers of those around them, guns are the same way, their just as safe as their owners and those around them.

viole, I get annoyed when people take that "turn the other cheek" out of context. That is in reference to religious persecution. There is a difference between someone taking a gun to your head and saying renounce christ or I will kill you, and a mugger on the street trying to rape your daughter, that isnt religious persecution thats just wrong, and I believe that the Bible actually calls us to protect life, especially others lives. psalm 82:4 says to rescue the weak and the needy, deliver them out of the hand of the wicked. You see throughout the Bible examples of what happens when people dont have the ability to protect themselves-1 samuel 13:19-22 is case in point, in Nehemiah 4 the jews were instructed to defend themselves, Luke 22:36 which says: " Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it,and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment. Self defense is biblical, throughout it. And yes, that person that your shooting at may be an atheist, but what if that atheist is shooting at another atheist, then they may never know heaven either. Lets look at abraham-in Genesis 14 his nephew Lot, was kidnapped, Abraham led a war party to rescue him, not out of revenge, but to save the life of his nephew. He protected his family and God blessed him for it. The Israelite Army was an militia type army-everyone kept their own weapons, and when called to war they brought them. We are called to preserve life-and unfortunatly, there are those who seek to destroy life, and I feel we have a moral right to defend ourselves and others from these people. And candice Im going to point out a couple things here-crime is prevelent, in the entire world, regardless of location, or gun laws, and will continue to do so until the end of time. Also note, that in america, while guns are legal and prevalent, the media has such a negative sway on them that often times, even in a clear cut self defense case where the person defending themselves had every right and would have died otherwise if they hadnt, they get faced with lawsuits and even possible jail time, that fewer people are carrying guns anymore in the US, at least the good people that would use them for good. One good example lets compare state by state-lets look at colorado, lot of gun violence down there, school shootings and the like, and very few people who carry guns. Lets go north to wyoming and montana-very low gun crime rate, and everyone and their dog owns one, and a lot of people carry them. With that being said, Im sure we can go back and forth all night with statistics about gun laws and amount of guns etc and in some cases, the crime rate is higher in area with loose gun laws, and some worse, but all that proves is that the problem does not lie with the guns, it lays with the people carrying them, and as onelight pointed out, our entertainment industry is a powerful factor in that. The other point is, is that if all guns were outlawed it will not solve the problem-the people who would use guns to kill others, well guess what, murder is already against the law, do you really think theyre going to care that guns are to? theyll get their hands on them one way or another, and if not they will kill anyway, all taking guns away does is take them out of the hands of the good people who wouldn't hurt a fly except out of self defense. They are a tool-they can be used for good, and for evil.

I personally, dont see that as a myth candice, studies have been shown that even professional burgers are more afraid of a gun then home security alarms or dogs. With that being said, I agree with onelight-if a lot of the sex, drugs, guns and violence were removed from the entertainment industry, I would imagine wed see a large decrease in crime across the board-regardless of gun laws and who has them and who doesnt, in fact I would imagine it would do more good then any gun laws. Though, that goes back to a perfect world-if everyone in the world was a sincere christian this debate wouldnt be happening, no one would care if their neighbor had a gun or not because they know their neighbor wouldnt shoot anyone with it. We live in a imperfect world.

lol just watch tv, its there they just hide it a lot more. Just because their wearing a skinny two piece bikini, doesnt mean their not trying to sell sex. But thats off topic. And yes, I do trust Gods protection-but I also think God uses people to protect us sometimes, and that He also gives us tools to protect ourselves and others. Thats what a gun is-a tool, nothing more, nothing less. For example, if you have a job cleaning the outside of windows on a skyscraper, your going to carry the appropriate safety equipment-your going to have a scaffold, and your going to have a harness and lanyard to keep yourself from falling. Now, by your line of reasoning, if you use a rope and lanyard to prevent you from falling, then you dont trust in Gods protection-because after all, if you trust God to protect you, then you shouldnt need it, because if you slip and fall God will surely catch you before you fall 30 stories to your death. Now, the question is, can you? yes God can catch you and save you from falling to your death, however, He probably won't, nor does He promise to, so a wise man, takes that rope and harness with him, because that way if he slips and falls he doesn't fall to his death, thats just common sense. Accusing one of not having faith in God, simply because he or she chooses to carry a gun, is in my mind completly unfair, and flawed logic. Even Jesus, who knew that if he jumped off the highest point of the temple that His angels would save Him, didn't put the Lord to the test. Yes, God is often willing to protect us, but in todays modern world, Hes more likely to let circumstances and other people in this world, to protect us, more so then divine intervention. Do I trust in God? yes completly, but I also take what He said about fathers to be the protectors of their family very seriously, and that is why I carry a gun, and why I know how to handle one safely, so that if the moment comes that I have to use it to protect the lives of my family I can. Do I ever want to be in that situation? no, I plan on avoiding that situation at all costs, and pray it never happens, but I am prepared just in case it does. And for the record, pastors dont need to wear a gun, I never said they needed to I said that I wouldnt have a problem with it. there is a difference there. In candices case, the pastor probably should have used some commen sense, if your trying to witness to a group of people, you dont walk in and do something you know will tick them off, at least not like that. If its something like challenging something their doing thats against everything Jesus stood for ya, but something like say, carrying a gun in an area where their not viewed as popular, well thats just not a smart move.

theres lots of sex on tv in america to, they just seem to think if they "cover" the most important parts its "ok" its disgusting really. And personally, I would have no problem with my pastor preaching from the pulpit with a gun at his site-I actually feel safer in an environment where a lot of people are carrying guns. To me, it means if some nutjob decides to come in and start shooting up the place, hes not going to get very far, because me and anyone else carrying are going to take our guns, and were gonna shoot back. Now granted, I think gun education should be increased, lot of idiots with guns out there, but to me, if the person next to me is carrying a gun, is safe with a gun and knows how to use it, I feel perfectly safe with it. and if hes an idiot, well I at least feel safe with the fact that Im carrying one, and I know I can handle one and handle one safely.

owning a gun or not owning a gun, nor your opinion of guns make you any more or less a christian. Accepting Jesus as your Lord and savior is what makes you a christian.

aaah I wondered why he sounded so familiar, I didnt realize he did anything like that. Its a good song.

who is it?

Theres nothing necessarily wrong with pepperspray, other then im the slightly paranoid type-there is a percentage (roughly 4%) of the population that is immune to pepperspray, and pepperspray has range limitations and doesnt do so well against a gun. Though, to be honest 4% is not a high number and chances are slim youll run into any of them. My wife does carry pepperspray with her most of the time, it is a good non-lethal means of self defense.

Ill admit I am pro gun-but I do respect those who dont believe in guns or like them, more so if they respect my stance on them. I will be honest, I used to be one of those "extremists" who was all gung ho like ya Id shoot that fool in a heartbeat if he attacked me. And Lord help those who disagree with me. As Ive growed older though, especially know that I have a family, Ive had to do a lot of soul searching and re-evaluating my believes, and after a lot of prayer and bible study, have come to where I am know. Do I still like guns? yes, they are one of my favorite hobbies-I enjoy shooting, hunting, and collecting them, Ive really enjoyed researching different firearms as well throughout the ages. And if I had to use one of them to protect my family, I know that I could and I would, but for the right reasons-before it was a gung ho thing, know its because I want to protect those I love, and I hope and pray I never have to, and sincerely, don't want to. Yes I keep a loaded gun near my bed at night-but its with the idea of better to have it and never need it (which is what Im hoping for) then to need it and not have it. Now, get me talking about guns and I will discuss them all night-I am passionate about them. I will even debate gun rights and everything else, I enjoy such debates-as long as their in a respectful manner. It doesn't bother me if someone walks up and says hey I disagree with you, and heres why-Ill respect that, I realize not everyone likes guns. If you come into a chat room with me, and Im discussing guns, and you dont want to just ask I have no problem changing subjects. The only thing that ever gets under my skin is when people bash guns and gun owners-theres a difference between disagreeing with someone, and being rude and disrespectful about it. Now with that being said, I have to say this is one of the most civil gun debates I have ever seen, and I respect that-and its good to be in a place where people can show such respect.

Powerful song, reminds us of where we are and what we need to do.

Im going to add my two cents here, I am a gun owner I own multiple guns, and while I am prepared to use one in defense of me or my family, I hope never to do so. Some of my guns are purely for hunting, some are for fun, I have one I carry for self defense, though I hope and pray to never need it. I have seen some really safe people with guns Ive seen some people that shouldnt be allowed within 100 yards of one. . .and yes I realize there are parts of the world where guns are used to kill and create terror, but I want to point out people have been killing people long before there were guns or swords. Cain killed abel with a rock, yet I dont see anyone saying we cant own rocks. Saying guns kill people is like saying pencils misspell words, a gun is a tool, no more, no less, it can be used for good and it can be used for evil, I always say guns dont kill people, people kill people-if every gun in the world were destroyed, people would still find a way to kill each other. Me personally, I am what many call a gun fanatic-I keep guns for hunting, I keep guns for enjoyment, and I keep them for self protection. Would I ever use one on another human being? If it meant saving the life of me my family, or another innocent human being yes I would, but I do hope and pray I never have to. I might point out that even Jesus is not anti-gun. You might say ya there wernt guns then. well in essence you are right they didnt have guns-but they did have swords, which were the guns of the day, at one point he instructed people to buy a sword. . .peter also carried a sword, do you not think that Jesus didnt know about it? seems to me if Jesus had a problem with Peter carrying a sword, then peter would not have had one. Jesus was no warmongeror or violent person-nor am I insinuating He was, but I don't believe he was against us having weapons. Guns are just hunks of metal and wood-that is all. What they are used for, is entirely dependent on the owner. If the owner is evil, then he is going to use it for evil purposes. If the owner is evil, he is going to find a way to do evil things, gun or no gun. But if the gun is in the hands of the rightous, then it will do no evil-it is an inanimate object, a tool, no more.