Axxman

I agree with a ton of what you guys are saying...including Shiloh's point about Israel and the impact of the financial aid they accept. I don't think any of what you guys are saying is necessarily new to anyone. I totally agree that the current administration is a foreign policy sinkhole. We knew that going in. None of what you guys are saying makes the US a bad ally. It just goes to show that even the closest allies aren't perfect...the US and Israel included. If at any point Israel wants to take the training wheels off, they are welcome to try...but the reality is...they don't want to, and we are okay with that because many Americans, including many in the current administration have a fond admiration of Israel. That doesn't mean that their opinions or desires for Israel are good (or smart)...but it doesn't make them enemies either. Joe Biden gushed and lavished praise on Israel during his visit. He isn't very bright to be sure, but one would have to be crazy to think that he hates Israel. He has a wrong opinion about how Israel should proceed in the peace process but friends disagree...and thats okay.

Without a doubt that is a problem. Funny you should highlight that part too...because that kinda shocked me. Why isn't this guy hiding in a cave like the rest of al-qaeda leadership instead of making friends on facebook?

I've kept up fine. The US is a good strong ally for Israel...and vice-versa. I think Israel agrees.

How do you know this? Because I did research before I posted and read about 6 articles about this guy. He's a bad guy for sure. This is one of the articles I read....here.

since when? I saw Obama saying "BOTH" sides need to tone it down today. I'm sorry but only one side is being arrogant, tyrannical, dictators here. It is absolutely unexcusable to berate Israel in public for BUILDING HOMES on their land no matter when they might schedule it. C'mon bro...I disagree with them on a lot of stuff..including their opinions on Israel's right to build on their own land. But when they come out and publicly start trying to smooth the waters I can appreciate it. Sometimes it seems like people want Israel to hate the US...

LOL...then either Israel disagree's with you...or this says something very ugly about Israel. I tend to think that Israel disagrees with you and is happy to have the US as a strong ally.

Born in America...raised in Yemen. He is a first rate extremist Islamic terrorist with as much blood on his hands as Bin Laden. This guy doesn't teach Islam. In fact, it has been noted, Muslim scholars say that other than the fact that he speaks English and can therefore reach a large non-Arabic-speaking audience, they don't understand his popularity as he has lacks formal Islamic training or study.

I have been critical of the US handling of this situation since the Israeli apology. I don't have very many positive assumptions about our current leaders...however, I am glad to see that they are toning down the rhetoric and trying to calm the situation.

I certainly agree the administrations actions are over the top and they need to stop. Totally, 100% agree! However, there is a slight difference in being mistreated and insulted by people that have never been all that nice to you, and have never really played by the same rules as you. I mean, what else would you expect from Iran and Syria? However, when it comes from someone that you have had a long and mutual trust in...that hurts. Now with that said...I don't believe for one second that the White House or State Dept. is as insulted as they are pretending to be. They see an opportunity here and are using this one mistake as leverage in an attempt to bully Israel to do what they want. Its shameful! (Never let a good crisis go to waste...)

Oh, I totally believe what Jesus said. Since those three scriptures are not three different times Jesus made the statement...but rather three separate recordings of the same single conversation...its important to examine the context. Starting in the verse prior to the three you posted, all three authors recorded the exact same context. Jesus says, ""You will hear about wars. You will also hear people talking about future wars. Don't be alarmed. Those things must happen. But the end still isn't here." He is essentially saying you will hear about all this crazy stuff, but the end isn't near. It was also recorded by Matthew and Luke, in that same conversation, that Jesus said "No one knows the day or hour..." So I don't think he was trying to give clues...but rather warning them against false clues and those who would use that stuff to deceive people. At least thats the way I've always read it.

From 1990-1999...there where 183 earthquakes above a 7.0 magnitude (9 above 8.0) From 2000-2009...there were 132 earthquakes above a 7.0 magnitude (10 above 8.0) The massive earthquake in Chile recently was the first earthquake above 8.0 in 3 years. There has been a large increase in earthquakes ranging from 1.0-3.9 magnitude in the last 10 years. Earthquakes in that range are almost imperceptible, and surely are not birth pangs. Some suggest that the number of small earthquakes is skewed because of vastly improved technology that allows them to trace even the most slight movement in the earths crust. The number of violent earthquakes is down dramatically. Only 368 deaths occured in earthquakes last year...compared to 82,000 five years ago. source

Yes, Israel is blessed.

Actually...the number of earthquakes has gone down. Last year, 2009, the number of earthquakes was down significantly. Last year there were only 6000 earthquakes worldwide..which is an insane drop since we average about 28,000 worldwide over the last 10 years. Last year was the lowest number of earthquakes in 20yrs...it only stands to reason that the number may go up this year. Considering that there are approximately 20,000-30,000 earthquakes each year as part of the earths natural movement...I struggle to comprehend how Jesus' claim of "There will be earthquakes all over"...is a clue. I've always understood those particular passages to mean that we should be ever vigilant because "No man knows the Hour...". The end will come when things are like they have always been...with rumors of war, famine, pestilence, and earthquakes...so be ready.

I don't think the actual announcement itself was the issue. Had they waited two weeks to make the announcement...it would not have been considered an affront, or slap in the face. Now, to be sure, the libs in the White House still would not have liked it. They would have complained and bickered like they always do...but it would not have been considered the insult that it appeared to be. What happened here was different. They meet for hours in private discussing the issues and developments that are important to them. They agree and disagree. They debate and discuss. When they are finished they have a nice little press conference to let people know the finer points of the discussions. They announce that bold moves need to be made for peace. They agree that both sides need to be willing to make tough choices and concessions. Then before Biden can even get out of the country, Israel makes an announcement that they know will upset the apple cart. They couldn't have discussed this in the hours of private meetings? They couldn't give the representative of their closest ally a heads up? You shake hands and make promises to boldly persue peace...knowing that you are getting ready to make an announcement that will surely upset that process. It looked duplicitous. This has nothing to do with whether they can, or should, build...and if the White House is trying to leverage that now it would be the wrong thing to do. The issue was how the announcement was done. It looked bad, even to Israeli supporters. Before the apologies and explanations came out there was a bit of a shock that Israel had acted the way it had in making the announcement. Now of course, some people don't care if Israel slaps the U.S. around...but whether you support that action or not...you can't deny thats what it appeared to be to a great deal of people. Israel quickly apologized and explained. It was done in public and in private and Biden accepted that apology. Now if they want to keep discussing the issue of building homes in East Jerusalem...fine. But it should not be leveraged over a mistake that has since been apologized for, and accepted.

I'm not ignoring you Neb... I am not so sure that any of these guys has done a very good job of hiding their disdain for Israel. I am more concerned for Israel than my convo with Shiloh...however, I am also able to do several things at once and our "squabble" isn't distracting me.

Well, that is my perception of you...my opinion. You are very aggressive in defense of Israel. You have no qualms about being overly rude and insulting in there defense during a debate. It comes acrossed as militant and extreme. This isn't a "Every once in a while I get upset when people criticize Israel" issue for you...you routinely shout down and go after people who criticize Israel. However...let me clarify. I know that the perception many have of me isn't entirely correct...so I assume that my perception of you isn't spot on either. We've both been on forums long enough to know the challenges...so I'll leave it at that... See Bro...you did it again. You changed what it was about. My complaint was not about Israel's building plans, or future peace talks, or acting like a sovereign nation. I am squarely on Israel's side on every one of those points! I stand in direct opposition to Obama and Biden's opinions and demands on all of that. My beef was squarely on the announcement and the situation in which it was made. You keep making it about something else. Israel apologized for the announcement. They did not apologize for, or agree to do anything else in regards to the announced building in East Jerusalem...and they didn't need to. The mistake wasn't in making plans to build..it was in the way the announcement was handled. I am not a jerk for calling out Israel's error. Fact is, there are no other countries with which the U.S. is so closely aligned that it would matter as much. Now we are back to disengenuous apologies. Who's fault was it then...if not Israel's? They did it. Not Biden, not the Palestinians, not the media. It was the Israeli gov't, and you can bet that Netanyahu was not so happy to be embarrassed like that. They are not bowing and scraping in front of the world at all...it son't even know how you arrive to such conclusions in this case. Apologies are not bowing and scraping. Apologies are offered when you've done something wrong and you want to set it right. There is NOTHING in the way Israel is acting over this issue that is bowing and scraping to appease the world. This is what makes you seem extreme. You refuse to acknowledge in the face of overwhelming evidence that they did do something wrong. Nobody listens to Israel even though they try sooo hard. Everyone blames Israel for "EVERYTHING." Israel is so cheated...its not fair...it's not fair. Its just one excuse after another about why nothing is ever Israel's fault...so now they have to resort to fake apologies so they can stay in the worlds good graces. Good grief! Agreed...which is why they apologized for their wrongdoings. Who exactly are the "people like me?" And I've been critical of the US for using the error as leverage...even though a proper apology and explanation have been given (and allegedly accepted.) I don't see how you can say I lack knowledge and don't know the facts...when every iota of what I said has been proven right about the error that Israel made. Your mind-reading capabilities aside...you have no proof that Netanyahu's apology was fake. So unless you can cough up some internal memo or something...then the fact remains that I said Israel messed up and Israel agreed and apologized for the mistake. Thats a win!

Ugghhh! It is totally unacceptable and immoral to accept an apology from a friend ...but then continue to use the mistake as leverage to try and make them do whatever you want. I have never looked forward to an election so desperately in my life.....

Mine too! Mine too! Only with mine there are survivors..... Hey...everybody is going to survive. We've always survived before. Believe it or not...i like Shiloh. He's a smart dude. I love to argue with him in an "iron sharpens iron" kinda way. I can't speak for Shiloh...but I'd like to think if we ever met we'd probably laugh at each other alot. I an extremely chill guy, even if that isn't how my posts come across. (and man, I know they don't... )

Dude...what is it with you? You are so off the reservation I don't even know how you function...lol. I didn't take anyone's opinion to ANY extreme. First off, I was the first person on this thread to respond to the news article. Everyone else started jumping on me acting like I didn't understand that Israel had a right to build on their land, and the Palestinians are terrorists...as if that had ONE IOTA to do with what I said! You took MY opinion to the extreme by saying it was about something it wasn't. You are the one who tried to take my opinion in a different direction. My opinion was based on ONE THING, and ONE THING only...it was you who decided that all that other garbage was somehow relevant to the very obvious mistake that was made. Your problem is that you are defending them from a mistake that they admit they made. So that suddenly makes you smarter than Netanyahu? Does your pride know any bounds? If someone says to a friend, "That was the wrong thing to do." The friend replies, "You are right, I'm sorry." That should end it. But no, we got some thug in the background going, "No, your an idiot, don't apologize,...punch him in the nose." Thats not coming to Israel's defense...thats just showing that some of Israel's friends aren't very smart. I entered the thread...not with arrogance...but admittedly upset that Israel would treat us that way. By the time I awoke the next day, the apologies and explanations had been made...and I was okay with it. It was a done deal. I come here and everyone is throwing stuff out that A)had nothing to do with Israel had done...and B) were saying Israel had done nothing wrong. Which was ridiculous because clearly they had, they admitted they had messed up, and they apologized both publicly and privately for it. The lack of knowledge and arrogance clearly belongs in the corner of those who can't accept what the rest of us already knew...and got over already. But see even you don't really have it figured out. I didn't make slurs towards Israel...and the fact that you would accuse me of such is preposterous considering you don't believe that criticizing a person or policy is the same as criticizing the country. I criticized who made the mistake...the insult. Not Israel. So much for common knowledge...you can't even frame your own points correctly after I gave you credit for making the point. It also should be clear...I didn't ask you for "points." I conceded a point to you. It is again bad debate tactic to then undermine a minor point that was already conceded by messing it up later in the debate. Makes it look you got lucky to even get it right in the first place. LOL...I was the first person here! There was no one else to have an "everybody's stupid but me" attitude with! I came in, as the first commenter on a news story...with an opinion. You can keep calling it a position of ignorance all day...it makes you look ignorant because they admitted the mistake. How is that ignorant? I said it was a disrespectful thing to do...and it was! How is my opinion ignorant at all? Well, to be fair...it did appear to me that it was a jerk move. I don't like my country being disrespected. As an American who fully supports Israel (the country) I was upset that they would do that to us. You are right that i didn't know all the details...but it appears my instincts were pretty much on-point. And was happy to see them graciously apologize. You haven't shown one thing that supports the notion that my opinion of this incident was flawed, or lacking in perception. In fact, one could argue that you saw it the same way...you just didn't care if Israel disrespected the United States. Your response to the description that Israel's actions were a "slap" was..."I hope it was heard all over the world. And I hope it hurt like the dickens as well....I really don't have any problem with this." Thank you...I'll accept the point! I'm sorry...you lost me again. What exactly did you have to untangle? The only tangle you had to unravel was trying to figure out how to absolve the Israeli mistake without blaming the Palestinians...because I wasn't going to accept that hogwash from the get go. Israel slaps the US representative in the face...I was offended. Your response was..."I hope it hurt...its the Palestinians fault." Basically. When I didn't let you brush it off on the Palestinians...you immediately went into argument from intimidation...which might work on some people, but I recognize it and don't let it get to me because the best defense against that debate tactic is moral certainty or clarity of position. Anyone who disagrees with you is spineless. Netanyahu is spineless...lol. I find it hilarious that you started this whole thing off claiming that the liberals and/or political opponents were trying to make Netanyahu look bad....now Netanyahu is spineless because he was quick to apologize. Fact is, you keep saying I'm not very knowledgable and foolish...and yet you are the one that keeps saying things that indicate you don't really know much about what happened. How does Netanyahu (and other Israeli leaders) apologizing for doing exactly what I said they did, undermine my opinion. It can't! If I say, "Its my opinion thats the wrong thing to do." Then Israel says, "We were wrong, we apologize, and we will work to make sure that never happens again." I'd say that pretty much validates my opinion that they messed up...lol. Geesh man...I gave an example. The example I used was a single person by name. I didn't realize I had to give a specific example in every possible scenario in order to show you that i was understanding your point, and conceding it. I understand that you don't care if I concede the point...which is fine because it was a minor point...if I don't mind conceding it, it probably wasn't a big deal anyway...lol.

Please....don't give them any ideas! Hehe!

There is no spin...what you just said is the strawman because it still doesn't clarify anything except that you don't have the ability to tone down your rhetoric. No, I meant you are rude. I thought that was pretty clear. You enter every discussion with the opinion that if you are more rude and beligerant than anyone who disagree's with you...no one will argue with you. You try to overpower every desenting opinion so as to drown it out. I enter discussions with an opinion...just like I did in this discussion. When your off-base attempts to dissuade my opinion failed...you went right into attack mode. its called "argument from intimidation." And this is the point I was conceeding to you. However, since you lack any characteristics of charity or humility you continue to pour it on as if I'm still arguing that point by claiming I lack commonsense, that I am not normal, and I am not reasonable. HELLO!!! I just basically agreed that you made a valid point and I'd have to consider your point! How could a rational person think that is remotely unreasonable and lacking in common sense? That's ridiculous. I came into the debate with an opinion. However, clearly for you, having an opinion constitutes being an "ignorant bag of hot air." Even though my opinion was clearly borne out to be valid as many agreed with my position around the world and even in Israel itself...where the leadership of Israel publicly and privately apologized for having done EXACTLY what my not-so ignorant opinion said! You are like a Toyota Prius...you desperately want to be the status symbol for your cause, but once you press the gas pedal you never know if someone is going to get run over. The only difference is that the company execs don't recall you and try to figure out exactly what your malfunction is before putting you back on the road again. The guy who tosses out verbal missles like "ignorant bag of hot air" and "you have a big mouth"...now wants to lecture on poor debate form...LOL! How is the Nancy Pelosi comment ANY different than what you said? If I am critical of her...If I am talking about her (and her policies) then I am not talking about the country as a whole. Thats exactly the point you are making. Talk about poor debate tactics...someone is conceeding a point to you and you don't even realize it because you too busy being venomous and you've lost your perspective...and that really is poor debate form. Let he who is without spin cast the first stone.

I saw that . . . after I posted what you quoted.

Hey Yod... that doesn't really build confidence in the gov't of Israel does it? If our allies are upset at us...aren't there better ways of handling it than playing one-up-manship type of games? I personally just don't believe thats what this is, so I am in agreement with you. I would be upset at Israel (or America) if that type of petty garbage was going on. The truth is...thats exactly what this looked like to many people when it first happened, and thats why it upset me and many others. In the aftermath, Israel has explained what happened, they have apologized more than enough...and it was accepted, and its over.

But did "Israel" flub, or just one politician within Israel? Its an extremely valid question. I think because of the international stage that these meetings were held on...it reflects on Israel and its leadership. I mean, if Pelosi, Biden, or even Bush "flubbed" on the international stage it represents America. But, they are our allies, and their genuine apology reflects on Israel too...in a positive way. I would like to point out that your question is kinda what I conceeded to Shiloh in my last post to him.

Kool...i agree with them! But again...the error that they made wasn't in the building of the houses. I think we all agree that Israel can build on their land...and I've never said otherwise. Joe Biden is 100% wrong on his opinion on the building of houses. How can I make this any more clear to you guys? Now...you need to keep your friend honest. This is not a poll from Haaretz. This is a poll from an Israeli media network identifying with religious zionism....Arutz Sheva. Its basically like posting a CBS poll saying that 80% of Americans disapprove of Obama...but the poll was really from FoxNews.