Axxman

LOL!! So basically...you are saying that if I am critical of Nancy Pelosi...then I am being critical of America. Uh no...I am being critical of Pelosi and her idea's. BUT...and it pains me to say this because of the way you treat people...I see your point, and I'll consider it. I don't necessarily know if I agree that disagreeing with individual people and idea's is the same as being critical of a country...but you have forced me to consider it. And I will. Wouldn't it have been kool if you could have made that point without calling me an "ignorant bag of hot air?" Or...maybe you get added pleasure from totally flaming people and making them consider a good point you made. Yes...you've already made clear that you are in the minds of the Israeli leaders. You know their thoughts and motivations better than they do. Who can compete with that? LOL! ...still making this about something other than what it is/was....

Hey Dave, Its odd for me to realize that some here are hopeful that their own country gets a "black eye" from an ally. Fact is, I think you got this one wrong. Netanyahu himself apologized to Biden, and held a press conference to announce that he had done so. This wasn't a "bold stroke of genius" planned by the almighty Israel to teach anybody a lesson. It was an error. A political misstep. Israeli leaders from Netanyahu on down have been apologizing because they realize something that apparently many of you guys don't...Israel flubbed a bit on this one. I think the apologies are not as disingenuous as many here would like to believe. I don't think Israel is simply apologizing in front of the media for political points and then going back home with a "wink-wink" to his followers. Hey, I'll be the first to admit that I don't trust what these people are doing most of the time. I question them alot. Not only should we question them...it is flat-out our duty to question them and try to hold them accountable. I don't see anything wrong with doing the same with our allies.

Oh yeah! Remember when I used these zingers on Shiloh? "Too bad that courage of yours isn't accompanied by anything useful like knowledge." or "You have a deficit of knowledge..."...and don't forget when I said, "You have a big mouth..."...and of course my classic shot, "you are nothing but an ignorant bag of hot air." Oh geez...I messed up! I didn't actually say those things to Shiloh. Those are comments that were said to me because I said ONE negative thing about Israel. I'm not entirely innocent I guess, I did use the terms "fanboy" and "zealot"...which are technically not insults, and are properly useful in their context. That is a valid and acceptable opinion. I agree that once Israel apologized (I happen to believe it was more genuine than most of you) it became no big deal. And rightfully so...but again...that has NOTHING to do with what Israel did wrong in this case. NOBODY in this thread has criticized Israel for building in East Jerusalem, or defending themselves from terrorism. So its really silly to keep bringing it up like it matters. I don't care if they build apartments for their people...and I certainly expect them to deal with terrorism however they see fit.

I agree that we love Israel...warts and all. I never said that my desire to see Israel prosper, have peace, or anything else has wavered. My love and commitment to Israel is on par with my love for my own country...in other words, I couldn't be more loyal...and I would fight for either one. With that said...I can be highly critical of my own country (and I have been), Israel can be criticized too. I disagree that extremism is okay. Extremism implies that you are pushing the boundaries, taking things too far...at least thats how I view extremism.

That is patently false! Yesterday, on my way to work, I kinda rebuked myself for coming straight out and calling you a liar. I handled that wrong and should have simply said the comment was untrue. I apologize for that. But I gotta tell ya...there are really only two ways to look at this...either you are really uninformed about the matter, maybe even led to believe an untruth...or...you are intentionally not telling the truth about it. I won't repeat the mistake of calling you a liar...but there is a clear separation between what you are saying, and the truth of the matter. You act like they are making these 'denouncements' on CNN, or in the Rose Garden for our benefit, or some political points in the U.S. That is by far not the case. The vast majority of the denouncements are made in Islamic countries, in mosques, on al-jazeera...and many are never reported here in the U.S....they get hardly any benefit of it at all. And when it is reported here in the U.S. people call them liars who are just trying to make political points. You are quite simply way off-base here. You have a DVD of an extremist preaching hate and death to America?!?!? Oh my. Nobody ever claimed that doesn't happen. I could probably find a dozen or so videos of "christian" preachers that aren't exactly representing the faith very well. Yes, there are some fringe lunatics in Islam...that ironically seem to get all the attention. The heart of the issue is that those guys on your DVD don't represent Islam any more than Jeremiah Wright and Fred Phelps represent Christianity. For every extremist on your DVD, I could probably show you a dozen (or more) Islamic clerics who publicly denounced terrorism and didn't get any major US media attention or political points at all. I don't like Islam at all. It is a lie, it is a deception, and it leads souls to hell. <---- typed it real slow...haha!

I believe its a bit of both. When the Christians in the south are attacked it gets more media attention here I believe. And of course, when the muslims of the north are attacked...it receives extended attention in muslims countries.

And ...no one really expected anything else, I sure. Can't wait to vote these guys out.

Well, clearly you know more than the Israeli gov't. You know what they are thinking and what their motives are. Your contention is that they did not use bad protocol, they did nothing to embarrass the vice-president of their strongest ally. Instead, they pass out disengenuous empty apologies to make people happy. Its almost like their claim that they were willing to make broad concessions and BOLD choices for the advancement of peace in the region...empty and disengenuous. At least thats how I felt initially. Then they apologized and explained what had happened...end of story. What section? The "US News" section? I post in this section plenty aside from the 1 or 2 times in the last three years that I've criticized Israel. And again, what "outrage?" I was not outraged. Disappointed maybe? But not even disappointed...just surprised they would do what they did. But the broader issue here is your knack for questioning the support of ANYONE who dares question ANYTHING that Israel does. I didn't like what Israel did so now you get to call my support of Israel into question? What about you? You are fond of claiming that you are critical of Israel...can we question your support? Having an opinion that Israel messed up says NOTHING about my support of Israel. Oh geez, give it a rest. We get it...you love Israel. America is evil. Israel would be so much better of without America. This country through its gov't and citizenry have been wildly supportive of Israel for over 50 yrs now. Hasn't always been perfect, we've made some mistakes...oh my goodness, I just said something critical about the country I love..EGADS!!! No marriage is ever perfect, but that doesn't mean you get to be a jerk. However, if you do act like a jerk you apologize and move on.

It is not a misrepresentation of you...this isn't the first time I've seen you at this rodeo. Your idea of condemnation of Israel is criticising anyone in Israel who isn't zionist. You criticize some liberal wacko Israel media and think thats you being hard on Israel, for the betterment of Israel. I don't think any of you are idiots and I didn't say any such thing...I just think you are unnecessarily extreme in your defense of Israel.

If you ask me the only people that are doing the hammering are the zealots who refuse to believe that Israel could do any wrong. They did something wrong...on the world stage...it made the news. I've heard more about Palestine in this thread than I've heard in a long time...and its all being used as a smokescreen as if Palestine has ANYTHING to do with what Israel did. Nobody said their mistake was on par with murdering babies. It was an error. It was disrespectful to the protocols of how you treat your friends, your allies, your supporters. They apologized...and quite frankly it went away.

Its your right to disagree. As an American, I desire to see my countries representatives treated respectfully. I thought it was disrespectful...so did many others...and so did the Israeli gov't, which has since apologized. I never said that Israel owes the US any favors. As allies we both have the benefits of such a friendship.

No one misrepresented anything. They messed up...they apologized. You keep wanting to make this about something its not.

Geesh...you are horrible at this...lol. So you NOW admit that they actually DO address and denounce terrorism...because yesterday you said Muslims don't do that. Now you claim that THEY DO ...but they are lying. Make up your mind. Tell the truth...you've actually never been to one of these "towns or villages" and heard them say the opposite to their people have you? You just made that up..didn't you? Making stuff up off the top of your head and presenting it as truth...is a lie.

Hey there...lets get something straight. I was upset with one thing that Israel did. It was a jerk move from a country that is supposed to be our closest ally. The reason I am referring to it in past tense is because they apologized and explained...therefore it is a done issue. I will never be one of the blind zealots that some of Israel's fanboys are...and quite frankly, I don't think God expects me to be. I love my wife unconditionally...I show her as much love as I can, as often as I can. That doesn't mean that I just accept whatever she does as right...especially if something she is doing is wrong. I don't make excuses and turn a blind eye if she does something inappropriate...and I certainly don't say, "Well, the lady across the street is way worse than my wife, she does bad stuff all the time..so who cares if my wife is wrong."

Holy Smokes! Someone with an actual skill in reading comprehension. Thank you Fez! That was my ONLY point. The apologists can't handle ANY criticism of Israel and immediately start in with the "Palestine does this...Palestine hasn't done that." as if what Palestine does gives Israel the right to do what they did. Israel alone is responsible for what they did...they realized it was the wrong thing to do and immediately began apologizing. Which was the right thing to do, and I as an American supporter of Israel appreciate it.

I agree with that. Are you implying that the beloved Israel could do something so heinous as broker a worldly deal in rebellion against God? If that ever happens you can be sure I will be the ONLY person here with the courage to criticize Israel...lol.

You are a liar. Plain and simply...the biggest problem is when people with the freedom and opporunity to be honest on a subject, instead use the opportunity to advance an agenda. That goes for anybody of any religion.

Yes, the land they were promised by God. Thing is, God has allowed that land to be taken away before. I was making a historical reference to the land they won in a war...we both know what land we are talking about. Its not really the issue though. As I've already said...I don't care if they build homes on the Land that they were promised by God, then lost, and won back in a war. Again, as I've already stated, I'm not a big fan of our current gov't and hope they are gone very soon. Again, that is not the issue. C'mon people have been throwing that prediction out for 2000 years. And really...thats still not the point. I am quite aware of Israels place in prophecy and history...that doesn't mean that they are perfect in everything they do. What are you going on about? I don't need them to take "direction" from us...it would just be nice of them to act with dignity when they are shaking our hand and taking our money. Their politicians DID lie to our politician. Finally, you said something that gets to the point. Of course, even Bibi said he was "blindsided" by the announcement as well. This isn't a big "hate Israel" issue. Its an issue that I as an American was offended that they would slight our country and its leaders (as much as I don't like them) as if we meant nothing to them. Its wrong...its arrogant...and its okay to call them out for it. Btw...is it okay to pray for the peace of Palestine too? Nobody ever seems to mention that.

I don't care if its trumped up or not...so what if it is? Thats not the point! The point is you don't shake a man's hand and tell him one thing and then turn around and do another the second he turns around. Its dishonest and arrogant...and I'm not afraid to say so even if you and the fanboys don't like it. Quit excusing their bad behavior because "Palestine hasn't done this...Palestine hasn't done that." Boo-friggin-hoo...grow up and start letting israel take responsibility for their own actions. Don't say you'll make concessions for peace...or bold moves for peace...and then turn around and do something that YOU KNOW will upset people. And in this case they were wrong to act as they did. One of us isn't afraid to admit it. HA!!! Then admit that I am right on this issue..because "the fact" is that Israeli's are being very critical of this arrogant and insulting move by their gov't towards their biggest supporter in the world.

Yeah, that about sums it up, correctly. Yeah, I thought it spelled out the hypocrisy and bigotry of people pretty nicely.

Maybe I'm not good at figuring out what words to type for a search, but I can't find any articles that speak of Christians slaughtering Muslims. Well...because its not about religion for the most part. You can find some of it in religious type searches...but really it comes to knowing the backdrop of what is really going on in Nigeria. They are more easily identified as ranchers or farmers, or where they are from Yelwe (in the Muslim North) or Dogo Nahawa (in the Christian South). Yes, they are seperated by their religion, almost all of northern Nigeria is Muslim...almost all of South Nigeria is Christian. If 600 people are slaughtered in Yelwe then you know it was 600 muslims who died... here. If 500 people die in Dogo Nahawa (as in the posted story) you know it was 500 Christians who died. These clashes have been on-going for years and they are almost always a result of local issues...especially in the City of Jos, because it is in the middle of Nigeria. While it would be crazy to say that religion isn't a factor...because it is...it is more along the lines of retaliaition, oppression, and the attempt to get an upperhand in the gov't.

You're implying that all Christians are good representatives of Christ. Christians fight in wars...they do kill. There is a war in Nigeria and the factions are numerous and out of control. Its like a civil war, only less organized. Christians are killing muslims. Muslims are killing Christians. And they are all killing each other. I just don't agree with the double-standard.

Look, I know you guys are extremely pro-Israel in that everything they do is sooo awesome. Yeah I get it. But the fact is, they have a habit of being wrong sometimes too. Believe it or not God gets pretty mad at them too...so it'd be okay if you guys chose to be honest about it when they mess up. That doesn't mean that you or God doesn't love them anymore...it just means that its pretty disappointing when something you love and cherish does something stoopid and inconsiderate. If Israel wants to build on land that they captured during a war...fine. Thats not the issue. The issue is that they and everyone else on the planet knows that the building of those settlements is a major issue in the peace effort. So don't have a big meeting and tell the Vice-President of your biggest supporter in the world (the U.S.) that you are willing to make concessions and bold moves towards peaceful negotiations...and then pull a move like that before he even leaves the country. Like it said in Israel's Haaretz paper, "A Slap Heard Round the World." And I must've been onto something because Israeli leaders have come out and apologized for the slight. Israeli cabinet member, welfare minister, Isaac Herzog said, "This should not have happened during a visit by the US vice-president. This is a real embarrassment and now we have to express our apologies for this serious blunder." Israel's interior minister, Eli Yishai, who heads the Shas, said "I agree that the timing [of the announcement] should have been in another two or three weeks." Its okay to be critical of Israel.

no they don't. whether people routinely do this or not, these people are not Christian. do you have some sort of documentation to back up what you are saying? Ohhhh...thats right, how could I forget. Christians who kill are not real "christians"...peaceful muslims are not real "muslims." As far as documentation...its pretty much on the news every night, and easily found online. In fact, you could probably just get by with reading the posted article. Here I'll paste it: Rights activists said the slaughter appeared to be revenge for the January attacks in which mainly Muslims were killed. Locals said that the attacks on Sunday were the result of a feud which had been first ignited by a theft of cattle and then fuelled by deadly reprisals. Like I said though...its not really about religion at all.

And then Israel stabbed him in the back before he could even get in his car to leave. I'm no fan of America's current leadership, and I can't wait for them to be gone. But Israel has got some pretty arrogant pompous jerks running the show to be so disrespectful after a solid attempt by Biden to let them know that our Gov't is still behind them.