3in1

It was part of their culture because back then fermentation was the only way to preserve the juice and kill the germs.

well it is still from God regardless of the 'why' it was in their culture though. the fact is that it was/is a part of their culture.

So....you think it's ok for little kids to drink alcohol?

remember they arenttaking shots or having a full glass of wine. also, in biblical times, wine/alcohol was a part of their culture. we have more of the western mindset about it though. thats its sinful in itself and so on and so forth type attitude.

Technically, it was not fermented wine that Jesus used at passover, at communion. For a church to use wine with alcohol in it is already incorrect. Same with the bread. Jesus did not use bread with yeast in it either.

what do you base this on? the wine used was...well wine. you have to infer bit much to say otherwise.

You like "loud, fast, ANGRY, music"? A real Christian would not go after these things. Set your mind on the things of God, not Satan like this music is.

and what is a 'real christian' exactly? i guess concerning music, its those things you like b/c youve got it all right i assume. so are you saying that your favorite song, sped up some is now wrong? please enlighten me.

I agree entirely. Take a hymn in church that you use to praise God. Double the tempo. Sing 3 times as fast. Start screaming it. Is the song really that different? To the human ear, or course it is, to the all-mighty God, I really dont' think so.

exactly! how does the tempo of a song make it sinful? when does it become 'too fast' or 'too loud'? so incredibly ridiculous! as you stated, its faster or louder to the human ear, but God is so much more than volume control! whats next,"those that talk or preach too fast are sinful as well?!" ...wow gimme a break already

I've noticed that in some Christian circles that we are very superficial. That we are afraid to open up and share what we are really struggling with both spiritually and otherwise. Anyone got any ideas why? Sometimes it can be people being afraid of being judged. Often it is pride. The lost expect us to be perfect, it seems. We often think that fellow saints expect us to be perfect as well. Maybe if just one person would show what is truly in their heart maybe others would join in. What do you think?

i thinks it easier to be superficial b/cc you dont have to deal w/ the tough stuff...right away that is! b/c you WILL deal w/ it at some point. possibly another issue may be we dont want to come across as 'not having it all together.' we dont want to somehow appear less spiritual or weak. sadly the church doesnt have room for these 'less spiritual' individuals. having said that, i do believe all your points fit as well. its a collage of contributing factors. none more sad than the bodies exclusion.

Well, 3in1, it's out of the heart that the mouth speaks.

Blessings!

true, but still not a basis for judging someones salvation.

You like "loud, fast, ANGRY, music"? A real Christian would not go after these things. Set your mind on the things of God, not Satan like this music is.

and what is a 'real christian' exactly? i guess concerning music, its those things you like b/c youve got it all right i assume. so are you saying that your favorite song, sped up some is now wrong? please enlighten me.

Hmm, my favorite bands are Fear Factory, Thursday and Atreyu. I listen to mostly metal, punk, industrial (lots of Nine Inch Nails.) I don't think it matters what music you listen to as long as you enjoy it. I'd probably listen to more Christian bands but all the songs are so Christ centered, yes I know that's the point but it's so annoying. I listen to music because I enjoy music, not because I enjoy being preached to. I just want something loud, fast, and angry, the kind of music that when you hear live you just get so pumped up you want to jump into a mosh pit and go nuts. Unfortunately the Christian music I've heard lacks loud, angry, energy filled mosh pits.

I am nobody's judge. I think if I were you I would look long and hard at relationship with Jesus. What you have just said makes it appear you may not have a relationship with Him.

wow, that wasnt judging or anything!! . what you said is the opposite of your initial words...'i am nobody's judge'. yet you turn right around and judge anyway. i cannot believe the audacity of your comments.

its amazing how much you 'know' about a person through a screen and some typed words. i guess God made everyone to look and act as you do.

I agree! I don't agree with what the original OP had to say, but instead of lambasting him, why not PRAY for him and let God open his eyes?

was that for me to stop lambasting the op? after reading thru it again, i suppose it has to be me b/c im not the op. sorry a little slow tonight! anyway, i understand your thoughts but biblically speaking, i think saying what i said was called for. to say someone does not have a relationship based on a few words about music is a bit shallow and arrogant not to mention completely off base. im not trying to be smug or anything now, just stating that i felt it was called for.

Hmm, my favorite bands are Fear Factory, Thursday and Atreyu. I listen to mostly metal, punk, industrial (lots of Nine Inch Nails.) I don't think it matters what music you listen to as long as you enjoy it. I'd probably listen to more Christian bands but all the songs are so Christ centered, yes I know that's the point but it's so annoying. I listen to music because I enjoy music, not because I enjoy being preached to. I just want something loud, fast, and angry, the kind of music that when you hear live you just get so pumped up you want to jump into a mosh pit and go nuts. Unfortunately the Christian music I've heard lacks loud, angry, energy filled mosh pits.

I am nobody's judge. I think if I were you I would look long and hard at relationship with Jesus. What you have just said makes it appear you may not have a relationship with Him.

wow, that wasnt judging or anything!! . what you said is the opposite of your initial words...'i am nobody's judge'. yet you turn right around and judge anyway. i cannot believe the audacity of your comments.

its amazing how much you 'know' about a person through a screen and some typed words. i guess God made everyone to look and act as you do.

Since I'm a believer and a preacher or teacher of "rapture", I would not want to go for cremation but a normal burial would be the only alternative and the most sensible manner I could think of. Of course, I would desire for a "glorified body transformation" but if the rapture comes not in my lifetime, I would want those who disbelieve my "rapture story" to see my empty grave when Jesus comes to resurrect me. How then will they know that I was resurrected if my ashes are at the Mount Olives?

did i understand you correctly? what does a 'normal' burial have to w/ the rapture? i dont undertsand the logic of why this is the only sensible option.

In my opinion this is another interpretation of God's commandment - He told us to be as respectful to our neigbours as we are towards ourselves. In other words - all the little things you do will end up coming back to you. Sounds like a stimilus, doesn't it?

stimuli!! thats a great word picture for me!

dont know your whole story, but hopefully this helps:

romans 8:26

26In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. We do not know what we ought to pray for, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groans that words cannot express

i think sometimes(most of the time) there are no words, no action, nothing we as humans can do to explain our feelings and emotions regarding spiritual matters. some people just react differently.

Pastors:

Have they been faithful?

No.

Why?

Because instead of seeking truth from God they follow the theologians (modern day Scribes and Pharisees) to places of separation and vanity

Pray for the +Peace+ of the MidEast!

Re: Ponder this-Could you live 40 days of Solitude?

We all know that Jesus Christ went into the desert for 40 days.

If you had the time and could do this would you live 40 days of Solitude?

Snow4JC

absolutely!..maybe not fasting, but the solitude definitely!

Ashes to ashes,dust to dust. 6 hours or 30 years, the outcome is the same.

that is a great question that im not sure anyone can fully answer. i say 'fully' meaning you wont fully understand nor will anyone be able to fully explain. many have tried but failed at completely relating God to another. i believe there are somethings one just knows. similar to how it would be near impossible for me to type why i love my wife and you fully understand, but i know i do as does my wife know that i do! words sometimes get in the way ya know?

for a while thats all i thought, that it was judging, then money, b/c that is what is taught! but then as you also stated, i began to see that how would he all of a sudden throw in a give money get money comment. its funny, what you said was almost verbatim my thoughts when i looked at this contextually or exegetically.

i also await other viewpoints

i do agree about the judging issue but not the money. i know several have taught about money and used this scripture to 'assure' believers but i dont think it fits here, i dont think he's talking about money at all.

if matthew and luke are commenting on the same discourse, then it is all about judging as you mentioned earlier. i feel this has everything to do w/ judging others, more in the sense of salvation, than it does money. or even, 'im better than you' type attitudes. i agree w/ you that many feel we arent to point out wrong to those caught in a trespass(Gal 6:1). but if thats the case, then paul was wrong for calling peter out on his hypocrisy! (Gal 2:11-14)

11When Peter came to Antioch, I opposed him to his face, because he was clearly in the wrong. 12Before certain men came from James, he used to eat with the Gentiles. But when they arrived, he began to draw back and separate himself from the Gentiles because he was afraid of those who belonged to the circumcision group. 13The other Jews joined him in his hypocrisy, so that by their hypocrisy even Barnabas was led astray.

14When I saw that they were not acting in line with the truth of the gospel, I said to Peter in front of them all, "You are a Jew, yet you live like a Gentile and not like a Jew. How is it, then, that you force Gentiles to follow Jewish customs?

the problem here is the we tend to not know when someone is clearly in the wrong! we have misguided judgements.

so, what do you think?

luke 6:37-38

37"Do not judge, and you will not be judged. Do not condemn, and you will not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven. 38Give, and it will be given to you. A good measure, pressed down, shaken together and running over, will be poured into your lap. For with the measure you use, it will be measured to you."

was wondering about some of the viewpoints on what these lines are talking about. i know what they are commonly used for, but was trying to get diff. perspectives. so... what do you think?

Yes, I have heard Zoegirl.... its Britney spears makeover... it is very hard rock and while she has only one song I would consider listening to IN MY CAR only as ENTERTAINMENT, she would not be allowed in the true church where the Lord is worshipped. This kind of music also is accompanied by dance that is no where near holy. Very worldly, sensual, etc. Her music does not belong in the church.... MercyMe is the same way. I would not play one song in the church. The way that they play it is disrespectful to the Lord Jesus Christ who suffered and died for you.

The dance of the Old Testament is no where near what people do today in church and outside church.

The music and drums and other instruments listed were played in a different manner than today.

If one is even arguing about this, trying to force it into the church, check your own heart.... check your own motives... hopefully you have a strong wise pastor to see through this and advise you directly.... and that his or her answer is a very clear NO.

Sure you can run to another church that will accept it, but that does not make it right.

the dance of the OT? im guessing since you were there and all that you must be at least 5000 years old!!... speaking of checking one's heart, you might want to do the same. i mean do you know what her motives are?... so lemme get this straight, going to another church doesnt make it right, but listening to you does? since when are you the authoritative voice?... oh thats right, i presume you are a lawyer... could you please inform me why britney spears is not allowed in the church?

its funny how when you look over your post, you see alot of opinionated comments. which is fine provided you understand that its your opinion and not truth. this thread is 50 pages long b/c people seem to forget the difference!

Do any of you have a myspace? Have you been into the religious forums? I have, and all I hear is Christian bashing. I originally thought that there would be an opportunity to spread the gospel but the more I go the more it seems like open season on Christianity. I contunue to seek people to invite to worthy boards but I keep thinking that we should also step out of our comfort zone and stand up for what we believe and stand by those who press on despite the opposition. Even the discussion groups seem to be plagued with non-believers with nothing better to do then to cause Chrisitians grief. I don't know about the other religious discussion groups, but I doubt they face the same ridicule that the Christians do. I will have to make it a point to verify that. Anyhow, I just thought I would get your opinions on what could or should be done, if anything, to support the Myspace Christians and offer them an opportunity to join us here without risking inviting the Anti-christians here as well.

i dont have one but my wife does as do her friends. im not familiar w/ the 'bashing' you speak of but i may look into myself just to get a perspective on it. what type of ridicule do you speak of? it may sound crass, but there is infact bashing here as well, just as there are in some churches today. also, what is the 'risk' being taken if anti-christians come on the boards? whats wrong w/ inviting them?

the first chapter is amazing!

and that's all i've read cause i havn't bought the book. i read the first chapter off the guys webpage...

and it only gets better!! ive bought several copies for folks around my way. i really recommend it.. like means anything ... seriously, its an awesome book!!

was wondering if anyone has read this book by Donald Miller. its a great read and he is a great writer.

what else are you guys/gals reading that others may want to know about?

Why all the name calling and insults?

And why is it when someone doesn't agree with what's being said, they get labeled. You're either this or that.

I don't understand. We're all suppose to be children of God. Is rude behavior one of the Commandments?

Perhaps if you were a member of a church where God's word is preached instead of being part of the anti-church movement the answer might be clearer to you.

sw

SW, that was the initial post and the initial response. which looks pretty rude to me. okay maybe you didnt call him a 'jerk' or and 'idiot' or something like that as far as insults go, but come on, your response is quite sarcastic. can you at least own up to that? i mean was this supposed to be taken nicely? or can you admit that you can see why smug comments as these could be taken negatively and not warmly?

i hijacked the thread, my fault

as you were.....

in Christ