3in1

well it is still from God regardless of the 'why' it was in their culture though. the fact is that it was/is a part of their culture.

remember they arenttaking shots or having a full glass of wine. also, in biblical times, wine/alcohol was a part of their culture. we have more of the western mindset about it though. thats its sinful in itself and so on and so forth type attitude.

what do you base this on? the wine used was...well wine. you have to infer bit much to say otherwise.

and what is a 'real christian' exactly? i guess concerning music, its those things you like b/c youve got it all right i assume. so are you saying that your favorite song, sped up some is now wrong? please enlighten me. I agree entirely. Take a hymn in church that you use to praise God. Double the tempo. Sing 3 times as fast. Start screaming it. Is the song really that different? To the human ear, or course it is, to the all-mighty God, I really dont' think so. exactly! how does the tempo of a song make it sinful? when does it become 'too fast' or 'too loud'? so incredibly ridiculous! as you stated, its faster or louder to the human ear, but God is so much more than volume control! whats next,"those that talk or preach too fast are sinful as well?!" ...wow gimme a break already

i thinks it easier to be superficial b/cc you dont have to deal w/ the tough stuff...right away that is! b/c you WILL deal w/ it at some point. possibly another issue may be we dont want to come across as 'not having it all together.' we dont want to somehow appear less spiritual or weak. sadly the church doesnt have room for these 'less spiritual' individuals. having said that, i do believe all your points fit as well. its a collage of contributing factors. none more sad than the bodies exclusion.

true, but still not a basis for judging someones salvation.

and what is a 'real christian' exactly? i guess concerning music, its those things you like b/c youve got it all right i assume. so are you saying that your favorite song, sped up some is now wrong? please enlighten me.

I am nobody's judge. I think if I were you I would look long and hard at relationship with Jesus. What you have just said makes it appear you may not have a relationship with Him. wow, that wasnt judging or anything!! . what you said is the opposite of your initial words...'i am nobody's judge'. yet you turn right around and judge anyway. i cannot believe the audacity of your comments. its amazing how much you 'know' about a person through a screen and some typed words. i guess God made everyone to look and act as you do. I agree! I don't agree with what the original OP had to say, but instead of lambasting him, why not PRAY for him and let God open his eyes? was that for me to stop lambasting the op? after reading thru it again, i suppose it has to be me b/c im not the op. sorry a little slow tonight! anyway, i understand your thoughts but biblically speaking, i think saying what i said was called for. to say someone does not have a relationship based on a few words about music is a bit shallow and arrogant not to mention completely off base. im not trying to be smug or anything now, just stating that i felt it was called for.

I am nobody's judge. I think if I were you I would look long and hard at relationship with Jesus. What you have just said makes it appear you may not have a relationship with Him. wow, that wasnt judging or anything!! . what you said is the opposite of your initial words...'i am nobody's judge'. yet you turn right around and judge anyway. i cannot believe the audacity of your comments. its amazing how much you 'know' about a person through a screen and some typed words. i guess God made everyone to look and act as you do.

did i understand you correctly? what does a 'normal' burial have to w/ the rapture? i dont undertsand the logic of why this is the only sensible option.

stimuli!! thats a great word picture for me!

dont know your whole story, but hopefully this helps: romans 8:26 26In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. We do not know what we ought to pray for, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groans that words cannot express i think sometimes(most of the time) there are no words, no action, nothing we as humans can do to explain our feelings and emotions regarding spiritual matters. some people just react differently.

absolutely!..maybe not fasting, but the solitude definitely!

that is a great question that im not sure anyone can fully answer. i say 'fully' meaning you wont fully understand nor will anyone be able to fully explain. many have tried but failed at completely relating God to another. i believe there are somethings one just knows. similar to how it would be near impossible for me to type why i love my wife and you fully understand, but i know i do as does my wife know that i do! words sometimes get in the way ya know?

for a while thats all i thought, that it was judging, then money, b/c that is what is taught! but then as you also stated, i began to see that how would he all of a sudden throw in a give money get money comment. its funny, what you said was almost verbatim my thoughts when i looked at this contextually or exegetically. i also await other viewpoints

i do agree about the judging issue but not the money. i know several have taught about money and used this scripture to 'assure' believers but i dont think it fits here, i dont think he's talking about money at all. if matthew and luke are commenting on the same discourse, then it is all about judging as you mentioned earlier. i feel this has everything to do w/ judging others, more in the sense of salvation, than it does money. or even, 'im better than you' type attitudes. i agree w/ you that many feel we arent to point out wrong to those caught in a trespass(Gal 6:1). but if thats the case, then paul was wrong for calling peter out on his hypocrisy! (Gal 2:11-14) 11When Peter came to Antioch, I opposed him to his face, because he was clearly in the wrong. 12Before certain men came from James, he used to eat with the Gentiles. But when they arrived, he began to draw back and separate himself from the Gentiles because he was afraid of those who belonged to the circumcision group. 13The other Jews joined him in his hypocrisy, so that by their hypocrisy even Barnabas was led astray. 14When I saw that they were not acting in line with the truth of the gospel, I said to Peter in front of them all, "You are a Jew, yet you live like a Gentile and not like a Jew. How is it, then, that you force Gentiles to follow Jewish customs? the problem here is the we tend to not know when someone is clearly in the wrong! we have misguided judgements. so, what do you think?

luke 6:37-38 37"Do not judge, and you will not be judged. Do not condemn, and you will not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven. 38Give, and it will be given to you. A good measure, pressed down, shaken together and running over, will be poured into your lap. For with the measure you use, it will be measured to you." was wondering about some of the viewpoints on what these lines are talking about. i know what they are commonly used for, but was trying to get diff. perspectives. so... what do you think?

the dance of the OT? im guessing since you were there and all that you must be at least 5000 years old!!... speaking of checking one's heart, you might want to do the same. i mean do you know what her motives are?... so lemme get this straight, going to another church doesnt make it right, but listening to you does? since when are you the authoritative voice?... oh thats right, i presume you are a lawyer... could you please inform me why britney spears is not allowed in the church? its funny how when you look over your post, you see alot of opinionated comments. which is fine provided you understand that its your opinion and not truth. this thread is 50 pages long b/c people seem to forget the difference!

i dont have one but my wife does as do her friends. im not familiar w/ the 'bashing' you speak of but i may look into myself just to get a perspective on it. what type of ridicule do you speak of? it may sound crass, but there is infact bashing here as well, just as there are in some churches today. also, what is the 'risk' being taken if anti-christians come on the boards? whats wrong w/ inviting them?

and it only gets better!! ive bought several copies for folks around my way. i really recommend it.. like means anything ... seriously, its an awesome book!!

was wondering if anyone has read this book by Donald Miller. its a great read and he is a great writer. what else are you guys/gals reading that others may want to know about?

Perhaps if you were a member of a church where God's word is preached instead of being part of the anti-church movement the answer might be clearer to you. sw SW, that was the initial post and the initial response. which looks pretty rude to me. okay maybe you didnt call him a 'jerk' or and 'idiot' or something like that as far as insults go, but come on, your response is quite sarcastic. can you at least own up to that? i mean was this supposed to be taken nicely? or can you admit that you can see why smug comments as these could be taken negatively and not warmly?

i hijacked the thread, my fault as you were..... in Christ