Massorite

OK...can we please stop the rhetoric? I understand what you are saying but I do not have this view. Stating that I disagree with your view does not put me against God. It simply means that I disagree with your view and I have tried to explain why but apparently, I have not done a good job, so one more time......... The Romney children do not represent anything but the Romney boys. The election is not about them nor is it about religious beliefs. Can you state with conviction that you believe that Obama is a Christian as he claims? Seriously? If that (big if I hope) is what you believe, then I would suggest prayer and more Bible study...I am not being sarcastic, I mean that in the nicest way but you will have to take my word for it because this is just words on a screen..... Anyway, God is not taking sides here. The US does not have a third option. Voting for a third party does nothing but cast another vote for Obama as no third party is going to win. I do not believe for one millisecond that God is going to pull a miracle and have a third party candidate win. I believe He could...but as God does not act sovereignly in the choices mankind makes, that is not going to happen God acts within the same context of salvation...the choice is there, you know the options...make the choice. I see this principle...throughout the Bible...from OT right through to the end of the NT, God, when speaking, offers but two choices.NEVER a third. Mankind would like to think there is always another option on the table..there never is Why don't you pray for Mr. Romney? Why don't you pray that God will open his eyes and that he would see that Mormonism is not the way of salvation? Frankly, if I were praying for Obama, my prayers would be that God would bind the demonic activity that surrounds him and works through him and have mercy on him because he represents the enemy of God. I have always seen Obama as the opposite of a blessing on the US and I believed that long before he ever was elected. You do not understand my posts if you read into them that I have converted to the world systems. Your country is broken and that is what people need to see and they need to ask why The only word that represents what God may sovereignly act upon on your behalf, is the word mercy. Actually I don't have a problem with someone who disagrees with me and I don't have a problem with your disagreement. I am just making a statement about your responses and how you speak like the world thinks. No scripture to back your thinking up. No bible quotes at all, just a bunch of opinions with no scriptural bases. Like calling what I say about God is "rhetoric". Only the world considers statements about God as rhetoric and that is what I am talking about. The idea that God does not take sides is a totally out in left field observation/statement because God always takes the side of those who are his people, his sons and daughters and all who accept Christ. Isn't that part of the promise? That Christ would never forsake us, that he would always stand at our side? If there was a real Believer running for pres God would be standing at his/her side at all times. And that I do believe is taking sides. "The Romney children do not represent anything but the Romney boys". So now your saying that there is nothing special about them, right? Before you were saying that they set a good example for others to look upon. "Can you state with conviction that you believe that Obama is a Christian as he claims? Seriously?" I guess you didn't read the very first statement on this thread because otherwise you would already know beyond that shadow of a dought how I think about both candidates. After all I started this thread. Maybe you should go back and take a look. "Your country is broken and that is what people need to see and they need to ask why". That is exactly my point. Our people need to see that voting is not an option when it comes to voting/choosing between two pagans who are antichrist candidates. But thinking like the world has infiltrated the way we think so they think that there is nothing wrong with iether candidate other then the issues. The moral condition of our politicians no longer matter and the people of God in this country are thinking the same way. I believe that God has turned both men over to reprobate minds and prayer would be useless in that case. What I do pray for is that the body of Christ would wake up and smell that coffee. We are sinking and we need to go back to basics. We need to once again stand on the side of God and his word with no compromises. We need to take back our integrety and be different from the world not like the world.

In Scripture the words "falling away" means "a departure from the faith" which means that a person has known the Holy Spirit, and has rejected or turned away from God and has begun to live a life of unrepented sin again. Which means that if that person dies while living a life of unrepented sin then they will recieve their just reward and according to scripture the just reward for living a life of unrepented sin is eternal death.

No we should not return to our Hebrew roots. However we should return to our Christian roots which are the doctrinal beliefs, love and the ministries of the early church. Because God is calling us back to basics. The early church Christians had something within themselves that looked so wonderful to the pagans that pagans would convert even though they knew that they might be fed to lions or jailed or beaten, tortured, used as torches at Roman parties and afflicted by all manner of horrible things. The pagans wanted what the Christians had but today the pagans want nothing to do with what the Christians have because the body of Christ has lost its integrity in the eyes of the world.

This sentence is at odds with itself. I know you don't know what I mean. It's Reagan I'm being mean so I will stop now I know what you mean. brutal /_\ .... Please forgive my misspelling. I have dislexia and have never been able to spell properly and I get rapped up in the conversation and forget to consult my dictionary.

Interesting. Would you vote for her daughter, raised by her mother and living like a pagan? The Mormons kids on the other hand, all set great examples So how do you know that Bristal is living like a pagan? Do you have some sort of spy satallite watching her every move. I have not read anything what so ever that even indicates that she is living a pagan/worldly life style. Does she gyrate provocatively on DWS? Yes she does and for that reason alone I would never vote for her iether. As a Christian we should always be conservatively dressed and acting. As for Mitt Romney and his sons are concerned, you should consult the word of God on that. Good examples are not good enough in the eyes of God. If you believe in ANOTHER GOSPEL other then the one Jesus left us with then you are a black spot in this world along with all other unbelievers, half believers and all other people who are not living according to the Gospel of Jesus. I don't watch that program but sheesh...THAT was even in the regular news. I would not call what she does provocative though....LOL! Yes, I do have a spy satellite. In fact, my spy console is lit up right now...I just watch the news FYI she was pregnant and unmarried when mom was running for VP...or did she already have the baby at that time? don't remember, but does it matter? and then all the things she did after that...not Christian...not my business either, but since you brought up the vote for a Christian scenario, then we have to take a closer look. My point being, that the child of your chosen Christian candidate, set a very bad example. The FIVE sons of Mr. Romney, on the other hand, seem responsible and reflect a good upbringing How do you reconcile what scripture states concerning the behavior of children if their parents are believers? The phrase 'another gospel' has nothing to do with voting. No one is voting for a Christian president as no candidate is a Christian so stop waving that straw man cause he's on fire. People have to deal with what is.....postulating that a Christian should only vote for a Christian does not even make sense Biblically because the Bible tells us to pray for our leaders and in the day when that was written, that would have been pagan Rome ps...forgot this: I did not say I do not like her. I said her voice was annoying and one reason I do not like listening to her Do you see the difference there? Because not liking a person and not liking their voice is not the same thing It is real simple. The Romney children represent a attend, practise and glorify a pagan religion . So as far as the world goes ( which is odviously the way you are thinking) they are some good examples. But in the eyes of God they are pagan worshipping heathens who will suffer eternal death unless they change their ways and convert to thinking according to the Gospel Of Jesus. So who"s side are you on anyways? God's side or the worlds side. Your posts read like the world to me.

I honestly don't think that matters. Chris Christy for prez? Now that worries me Actually what worries me more, are people saying they will vote for anyone who says they are a Christian Y'all just had 4 years of that Of course it does. Anybody who is a Christian and thinks like the world does is afraid of a true Christian Pres and so is the world.

Lol. True. Not voting is not the answer I agree. Be part of the solution not the problem. OK, Missy. Oh you! It came back to me, huh? Lol! I don't blame you on that one and I agree. A true Christian would never through the nomination process. Wait so you’re saying of all the U.S. Presidents… none of them were Christians? Interesting. Would you vote for her daughter, raised by her mother and living like a pagan? The Mormons kids on the other hand, all set great examples Mormons also give the highest percent of their income to charities. Sad but true. Ronald Ragen was a true Christian and he stood up for God and his word.

Her voice is such a small reason for disliking some one.

Interesting. Would you vote for her daughter, raised by her mother and living like a pagan? The Mormons kids on the other hand, all set great examples So how do you know that Bristal is living like a pagan? Do you have some sort of spy satallite watching her every move. I have not read anything what so ever that even indicates that she is living a pagan/worldly life style. Does she gyrate provocatively on DWS? Yes she does and for that reason alone I would never vote for her iether. As a Christian we should always be conservatively dressed and acting. As for Mitt Romney and his sons are concerned, you should consult the word of God on that. Good examples are not good enough in the eyes of God. If you believe in ANOTHER GOSPEL other then the one Jesus left us with then you are a black spot in this world along with all other unbelievers, half believers and all other people who are not living according to the Gospel of Jesus.

When it comes to God and his word there is no difference between a Muslim and a Morman. Sin is Sin and there is no lesser sinful of two different sins. Such thinking is what is wrong with the Church/Body of Christ today. We have so mixed up the precepts of the word of God with the ways that the world thinks that we are beginning to think more like the world does ands less like God does.

Ohhh how sinister you are. There are some real Christians out there who I would vote for and Sarah Palin is one of them or Chris Christy. However or bottom line moral abligation is to God and no other. So I would vote for a Christian in a heart beat. Maybe that was a bit overstated. You can vote for whom you like, but I doubt with almost 100% certainty that a real Christian would ever make it to the final two. The world hated Jesus, why do you think the world would not hate a real Christian running for presidency? I won't go into the deadbeat argument about wasted votes. I don't blame you on that one and I agree. A true Christian would never through the nomination process.

We have the word of God to guide us in every decision we make and the Holy Spirit will never contradict what the word of God says so if the word of God speaks against evil, paganism and the spirit of Antichrist then the Spirit of God well be telling you the same thing. His Spirit tells me that the stage is being set for Christ return. Anyone I would like to see in office will not be on the ballot, and I don't believe in allowing the greater of two evils to win. Finally an honest true Christian response :biggrinflip:

So God who stands against all that is pagan or anti-christ would lead you to vote for a man who is a pagan and an anti-christ? Where in the bible does God justify voting or choosing someone to lead us even if they are a pagan? Because my God Jahovah is never on the side of evil. One is right here. God has established them, I'm sure God could use your vote....... Rom 13:1Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. As a follower of Jesus, I hold onto the idea that God has allowed a lot of things in this world to take place and without my input as to what is happening; then I have to ask myself what right do I have to complain about anything they do, because I refused to use my vote to change it. I may not be of this world as a Christian, but, right now I am renting a small place here on earth and God has given me a Voice, I will use it. To each of us the gift of Free Will is given, use it wisely. Is it really just money. could it not aslo be a Vote? Mat 22:21 They say unto him, Caesar's. Then saith he unto them, Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's; and unto God the things that are God's. ICL~~~~Dennis No matter who is elected we will be paying taxes and the scripture you picked has nothing to do with who we should vote for or even morality :hmmm:

We have the word of God to guide us in every decision we make and the Holy Spirit will never contradict what the word of God says so if the word of God speaks against evil, paganism and the spirit of Antichrist then the Spirit of God well be telling you the same thing.

Are you making fun of the man which God has put in power to rule over you? Could that be an insult to the integrity of God's decision making? Or did the people let the Holy Spirit guide them in 2008? Plain and simple. We have the word of God to guide us in every decision we make and the Holy Spirit will never contradict what the word of God says so if the word of God speaks against evil, paganism and the spirit of Antichrist then the Spirit of God well be telling you the same thing.

Ha Other one you should read up on end time prophetic scripture. You will find that a nation will arise out of Europe that will become the single most powerful nation on earth. Which means that the United States would have to decline in power both economically and militarily so that nation in Europe can rise up and become more powerful then the US in every way. So no matter which pagan is elected we are destined to suffer a great loss as a country. How long do you think God is going to keep blessing us when we elect pagans who have no clear biblical integrity and allow a million babies to be murdered every year. Who are also helping to bring the moral condition of thius country down into the pits of hell Oh, I'm not so sure about that nation coming out of Europe..... but that's a long story...... It actually doesn't matter where this nation will come from but I can tell you this. The Islamic world is waiting for a Jewish Jesus to return, the Christians are waiting for a Jewish Jesus to return and the non-believing Jews are waiting for a Jewish Jesus to appear for the first time. So only a Jewish Jesus will fulfill that prophecy in all three religions. But of course we all know that the antichrist well come claiming to be Jesus.

Ohhh how sinister you are. There are some real Christians out there who I would vote for and Sarah Palin is one of them or Chris Christy. However or bottom line moral abligation is to God and no other. So I would vote for a Christian in a heart beat.

I strongly agree with this. Furthermore, another 4 years of Obama and the USA may become something that barely resembles the America I grew up with and that I love. We have to leave the religious affiliations of the candidate out of this. Neither is what we would have hoped for, that's a fact and we have to think past it. Romney believes in traditional family values, and indeed he has a traditional family. I know little about the Mormon religion, and I don't know if Romney is even a strict adherent to it. Maybe he's a nominal Mormon, and maybe by electing him president he'll convert to a mainstream Christian denomination. We just don't know. Granted that electing Romney is taking a chance. However, electing Obama again is less of a chance. We have a very good idea what another 4 years of Obama will bring. If you are satisfied with what Obama has done so far, then vote for him. But if you aren't, then voting for Romney is the only way to not throw your vote away. A 3rd party or write in candidate will not win. It's so unlikely to happen that you have a better chance to win Lotto. God, who can do anything, will miraculously make a 3rd party win if He wants that. But usually God does things through natural means. He will probably let us elect the man we want. I want Romney because he's against gay unions and in favor of family values. He also has more experience in creating jobs and helping a failing economy. I implore everyone reading this to vote for Romney. John "We have to leave the religious affiliations of the candidate out of this." You couldn't be more wrong on this one John. The word of God is our example and there is no seperation of church and state with regards to the people of God anywhere in the bible. As a Christian, what we believe dictates all of our decisions and how we live or react to any given situation. In the bible the government God gave to Moses was a theocracy and that is the way that Isreal was governed until the people demanded a King. Man has decided to seperate the church from the state not God. And in our future God will once again have a theocracy with Chist at the head of the church/government. Leaving the religeous affiliations out of this on any subject should be impossible for a true Christian because our minds should be filled with Christ with every single decision we make and every action we do/take which inclueds how we vote. When we vote we should be voting with Christ in mind so who do you think Christ would vote for?????

Rom 13:1Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. Vote: YES....For whom:....Let God guide you.....There is no need to explain that vote to any man. Dennis So what does the word of God say anything about voting for a pagan to rule over you. " But usually God does things through natural means. He will probably let us elect the man we want." In this statment the word "probably" bothers me because the word is evasive. It doesn't say one way or another. Voting for evil is a vote for evil and there is nothing written anywhere in the word of God that justifies voting on the side of evil. And if we do vote on the side of evil we are compromising our walk with God because God would never vote or stand on the side of evil and if we are supposed to become more Christ like we are obligated act like Christ and Christ would never stand on the side of evil or anti-christ.

"According to the first post, if you follow that logic, then a Christian could not vote for either Obama or Romney." That is exactly what I am proposing. "It's nice to be principled, but we live in a practical world." So are you saying that you are not as principled as I am? Brother I read and study the word of God just like you do so way do you seperate yourself from the same principles of God that I have embrassed. We are commanded to be in the world but not of the world, true or false? Which means that the practical world is full of evil with no Godly morals, precepts, statutes, and so on. But we are not of that evil world. We are seperated by the Kingdom of God which is in this world but not of this world. " I may not agree with Mr. Romney's religion 100%, but he at least shares my values MUCH more than Mr. Obama." Talk is cheap my friend. The other day standing before the UN Obama declared that he was a Christian and every representitive from every country who attended that speech nknew that Obama had also declared that he aproved of Gay marrage which most countries including the Islamic countries consider the gay agenda to be an abomination. You should disagree with all of Mormonism and not just something less the 100% because Mormons do not read or study or live by the Gospel of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. As the Muslims say, "Therer is only one God and one Book and there is no other.

Ha Other one you should read up on end time prophetic scripture. You will find that a nation will arise out of Europe that will become the single most powerful nation on earth. Which means that the United States would have to decline in power both economically and militarily so that nation in Europe can rise up and become more powerful then the US in every way. So no matter which pagan is elected we are destined to suffer a great loss as a country. How long do you think God is going to keep blessing us when we elect pagans who have no clear biblical integrity and allow a million babies to be murdered every year. Who are also helping to bring the moral condition of thius country down into the pits of hell

So God who stands against all that is pagan or anti-christ would lead you to vote for a man who is a pagan and an anti-christ? Where in the bible does God justify voting or choosing someone to lead us even if they are a pagan? Because my God Jahovah is never on the side of evil.

How should we vote? As a Christian do we have the responsibility it is to follow the word of God to the tee at all times? Should we be concerned about whether or not we are voting for a candidate with Christian values? Yes We Should. So with that in mind let us take a look at the candidates for president and what they believe. Mr. Mitt is a Morman and believes that Joseph Smith actually did find another "New Testament" where an angel told him it would be. So what Mitt Romney believes, goes against what the new testament says and flies in the face of God. Conclusion What Mitt Romney believes in is what the Word of God calls Paganism and is actually anti-christ in nature. So should vote for a pagan who is anti-christ? No we should not. Obama claims to be a Christian and at the same time he shouts to the world that he is in favor of the Gay Marrage, Abortion etc. Does the word of God speak out against pre-meditated Murder? Are Mr.Obama's beliefs anti-christ and an abomination in the eyes of God? Yes to both questions. Conclusion Both Obama and Mitt Romney are pagans who's beliefs are what God considers to be an abomination and anti-christ. In the eyes of God there is no lesser of two evils there is only evil so who are you going to vote for? An anti-christ candidate or a Christian candidate who abides by all of the word of God? The Word of God says that we should obey the laws of our government but not if it goes against the word of God, causes us to sin and is eternally significant.

The story of the development of pre-tribulationism as we know it today is a tangled one. From its inception in the early 1800s, there has been a deliberate attempt to cover up its origins. This has been perpetrated along two lines of ‘revisionism.’ One was to hide the real origin of pre-tribulationism in 19th century Scotland, and attribute it to John Nelson Darby and the Plymouth Brethren. The other has been a recent attempt to selectively quote and misrepresent ancient Christian documents to make it appear early Christians were pre-trib. The purpose of this article is to document a timeline of the major events in the development of this relatively new prophetic viewpoint. Some time in June of 1830 and out of the spectacle of alleged latter-day Holy Spirit outpouring in Scotland and England, the first documented evidence of a pre-tribulation rapture articulated in the form of a letter written by Margaret MacDonald, sister of James and George MacDonald of Port Glasgow. In March or April of 1830, after being ill and bed-ridden for about 18 months, Margaret claimed to have seen a series of visions of the coming of the Lord. She wrote down these visions and sent a copy to Edward Irving who pastored a Church of Scotland (Presbyterian) congregation in London. A month later Irving claimed in a private letter that Margaret’s visions had a huge impact on him. The outstanding feature of Margaret’s visions was an outpouring of the Holy Spirit on a elite group within the Church, combined with a secret rapture before the revealing of the Antichrist. She saw only these “Spirit filled” Christians “taken” to be with the Lord, while the rest of the Church without this experience would be left to be purged in the tribulation. Here is the letter Margaret MacDonald wrote to Edward Irving. “It was first the awful state of the land that was pressed upon me. I saw the blindness and infatuation of the people to be very great. I felt the cry of Liberty just to be the hiss of the serpent, to drown them in perdition. It was just `no God.’ I repeated the words, Now there is distress of nations, with perplexity, the seas and the waves roaring, men’s hearts failing them for fear - now look out for the sign of the Son of man. Here I was made to stop and cry out. 0 it is not known what the sign of the Son of man is; the people of God think they are waiting, but they know not what it is. I felt this needed to be revealed, and that there was great darkness and error about it; but suddenly what it was burst upon me with a glorious light I saw it was just the Lord himself descending from Heaven with a shout, just the glorified man. even Jesus; but that all must, as Stephen was, be filled with the Holy Ghost, that they might look up, and see the brightness of the Father’s glory. I saw the error to be, that men think that it will be something seen by the natural eye; but ’tis spiritual discernment that is needed, the eye of God in his people. Many passages were revealed, in a light in which I had not before seen them. I repeated, "Now is the kingdom of Heaven like unto ten virgins, who went forth to meet the Bridegroom, five wise and five foolish; they that were foolish took their lamps, but took no oil with them; but they that were wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps.’ ‘But be ye not unwise, but understanding what the will of the Lord is; and be not drunk with wine wherein is excess, but be filled with the Spirit.’ This was the oil the wise virgins took in their vessels - this is the light to be kept burning - the light of God - that we may discern that which cometh not with observation to the natural eye. Only those who have the light of God within them will see the sign of his appearance. No need to follow them who say, see here, or see there, for his day shall be as the lightning to those in whom the living Christ is. ’Tis Christ in us that will lift us up - he is the light - ‘tis only those that are alive in him that will be caught up to meet him in the air. I saw that we must be in the Spirit, that we might see spiritual things. John was in the Spirit, when he saw a throne set in Heaven. - But I saw that the glory of the ministration of the Spirit had not been known. I repeated frequently, but the spiritual temple must and shall be reared, and the fullness of Christ be poured into his body, and then shall we be caught up to meet him. Oh none will be counted worthy of this calling but his body, which is the church, and which must be a candlestick all of gold. I often said, Oh the glorious in breaking of God which is now about to burst on this earth; Oh the glorious temple which is now about to be reared, the bride adorned for her husband; and Oh what a holy, holy bride she must be, to be prepared for such a glorious bridegroom. I said, Now shall the people of God have to do with realities - now shall the glorious mystery of God in our nature be known - now shall it be known what it is for man to be glorified. I felt that the revelation of Jesus Christ had yet to be opened up - it is not knowledge about God that it contains, but it is an entering into God - I saw that there was a glorious breaking in of God to be. I felt as Elijah surrounded with chariots of fire. I saw as it were, the spiritual temple reared, and the Head Stone brought forth with shoutings of grace, grace, unto it. It was a glorious light above the brightness of the sun, that shone round about me. I felt that those who were filled with the spirit could see spiritual things, and feel walking in the midst of them, while those who had not the Spirit could see nothing - so that two shall be in one bed, the one taken and the other left, because the one has the light of God within while the other cannot see the Kingdom of Heaven. I saw the people of God in an awfully dangerous situation, surrounded by nets and entanglements, about to be tried, and many about to be deceived and fall. Now will THE WICKED be revealed, with all power and signs and lying wonders, so that if it were possible the very elect will be deceived. - This is the fiery trial which is to try us. - It will be for the purging and purifying of the real members of the body of Jesus; but Oh it will be a fiery trial. Every soul will be shaken to the very centre. The enemy will try to shake in every thing we have believed - But the trial of real faith will be found to honor and praise and glory. Nothing but what is of God will stand. The stony-ground hearers will be made manifest - the love of many will wax cold I frequently said that night, and often since, now shall the awful sight of a false Christ be seen on this earth, and nothing but the living Christ in us can detect this awful attempt of the enemy to deceive - or it is with all deceivableness of unrighteousness he will work - he will have a counterpart for every part of God’s truth and an imitation for every work of the Spirit. The Spirit must and will be poured out on the church, that she may be purified and filled with God - and just in proportion as the Spirit of God works, so will he when our Lord anoints men with power, so will he. This is particularly the nature of the trial, through which those are to pass who will be counted worthy to stand before the Son of man. There will be outward trial too, but `tis principally temptation. It is brought on by the outpouring of the Spirit, and will just increase in proportion as the Spirit is poured out. The trial of the Church is from Antichrist. It is by being filled with the Spirit that we shall be kept. I frequently said, Oh be filled with the Spirit - have the light of God in you, that you may detect Satan - be full of eyes within - be clay in the hands of the potter - submit to be filled, filled with God This will build the temple. It is not by might nor by power, but by my Spirit saith the Lord. This will fit us to enter into the marriage supper of the lamb. I saw It to be the will of God that all should be filled. But what hindered the real life of God from being received by his people was their turning from Jesus who is the way to the Father. They were not entering in by the door. For he is faithful who hath said, by me if any man enter in he shall find pasture. They were passing the cross, through which every drop of the Spirit of God flows to us. All power that comes not through the blood of Christ is not of God. When I say, they are looking from the cross, I feel that there is much in it - they turn from the blood of the Lamb, by which we overcome, and in which our robes are washed and made white. There are low views of God’s holiness, and ceasing to condemn sin in the flesh, and a looking from him who humbled himself, and made himself of no reputation. Oh! it is needed, much needed at present, a leading back to the cross, I saw that night, and often since, that there will be an outpouring of the Spirit on the body, such as has not been, a baptism of fire, that all the dross may be put away. Oh there must and will be such an indwelling of the living God as has not been - the servants of God sealed in their foreheads - great conformity to Jesus - his holy image seen in his people just the bride made comely, by his comeliness put upon her. This is what we are at present made to pray much for, that speedily we may all be made ready to meet our Lord in the air - and it will be. Jesus wants his bride. His desire is toward us. He that shall come, will come, and will not tarry. Amen and Amen. Even so come Lord Jesus.” NOTE: Some pre-trib authors have tried to debunk Margaret’s contribution to pre-tribulationism by claiming she was actually post-trib. They point to the statements where she speaks of Christians being tried in the tribulation. However, they fail to recognize that she was only speaking of a secret rapture of an elite group of saints, and not the whole Church. Therefore, she spoke of BOTH a secret pre-trib rapture AND Christians being tried in the tribulation, and according to the Pre-trib theology there will be Christians in both the "secret rapture" and the tribulation period. From the letter that Margaret MacDonald wrote and Mr. Edward Irving’s interpretation of that letter, comes the false doctrinal teaching of the pre-tribulation Resurrection. But as we can see from the letter. There is nothing spoken of about any Revival brought on by the 144,000 who are supposed to travel around the world evangelizing and creating another body of Christ after the first body of Christ has already been taken out of this world. We can also see from the letter that the parable of the Ten Virgins has been misinterpreted because in that parable (Matthew 25:1-13) the bible says that after the resurrection occurs the door will be shut and when the five foolish virgins realize that they have been left behind to suffer for their unbelief. Jesus tells them that he does not know them. No where in that parable does it speak of any second chance or any seven year tribulation period or any pre-tribulation resurrection. From the letter that Margaret MacDonald wrote and Mr. Edward Irving’s interpretation of that letter, comes the false doctrinal teaching of the pre-tribulation Resurrection. But as we can see from the letter. There is nothing spoken of about any Revival brought on by the 144,000 who are supposed to travel around the world evangelizing and creating another body of Christ after the first body of Christ has already been taken out of this world. We can also see from the letter that the parable of the Ten Virgins has been misinterpreted because in that parable (Matthew 25:1-13) the bible says that after the resurrection occurs the door will be shut and when the five foolish virgins realize that they have been left behind to suffer for their unbelief. Jesus tells them that he does not know them. No where in that parable does it speak of any second chance or any seven year tribulation period or any pre-tribulation resurrection. In any case this is how the Pre-Tribulation theology as we know it to day came to be and it,s origins came from a sick and delirious woman

I stand I think you got the word "sun" spelled wrong. It should be Son as in SON OF RIGHTEOUSNESS, NOT SUN (S-U-N) AS IN THE PLANET. It is SUN. Look it up. Since the beginning of Christianity, Christians, such as Justin Martyr to today, have regarded the "Sun of Righteousness" as a reference to Jesus. In many scriptures, God is related to a planet or star (Psalm 84:11, Isaiah 60:19, Revelation 22:16, Numbers 24:17). Here, the Messiah is not only a Sun, but also the Sun of Righteousness who brings healing---healing in His wings, which is a reference to the tassels of His tzittzit, called 'wings'. Jesus is the light of the world. He is our righteousness, not the son of righteousness. Jeremiah 23:6 And this will be his name: ‘The Lord Is Our Righteousness.’ In that day Judah will be saved, and Israel will live in safety. Jeremiah 33:16 In that day Judah will be saved, and Jerusalem will live in safety. And this will be its name: ‘The Lord Is Our Righteousness.’ I stand corrected.