dugmando

Hi Hupo, I like others do believe when we were created in "Their Image" it refers to us as a three part being, body, mind and soul. When God Created the World, what is the phrase:ex nil heleo, I think that is the correct spelling but don't hold me to it, meaning He created something out of nothing. An Absolutely Amazing and Impossible Task that the Only True and Sovereign God could do. This Creation is a Magnificent Work which continually testifies/reflects of His Greatness, and as God has always done One Work, One Creation after another to build on top of/and which is connected to the other all with a Master Plan, to reveal Himself to man. We being formed out of this Creation are just a part of it (the Master Plan) and a Work that Only God could do! Which also testifies/reflects of God's Greatness. I don't know if this makes sense??? Dugmando

I have seen in a few other threads of our works being tried by fire with some gaining great reward and others just getting in to Heaven and then for eternity, they are reminded of their loss as one poster wrote. First I have no doubt that our works will be tried this is Biblical. But my question I ask of this Board is, If I will be reminded for all of eternity about my loss, no doubt causing me to have regret for all of eternity. (That would be just common sense to think I will have regret like that) How will this be Heaven? Dugmando

Exactly, So to me what you said of Salvation from God is most correct because He send His Son to Pay a Price that only He could Pay but God was and is the one Who Holds the Note, if you will allow me to say it that way because my debt was owed to Him. But Thank God Jesus Paid it! Dugmando

Hi LadyC, God bless and Thank God you feel the way you do, A person can become offended and preturbed about many different silly things I know I do most oftento my shame. But of all things to stand up for and if I may say fight for. This that God has done for us, We must defend God's Grace given to us. I only hope that I can and will be as bold as Paul when he told the Corinthians in Ch 15 v10 & 11 But by The Grace of God, I AM WHAT I AM: and His Grace which was bestowed upon me was not in vain:but I labored more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the Grace of God which was with me. Therefore whether it were I or they so we preach and so you believed. Paul was rightfully proud of who he was in Christ!!! Rightful enough to defend at any cost!! But back to the question, I think what I really am saying is sin, it is an offense against God. If we sin against God payment must be made to whom? God, correct? Or Jesus? Dugmando

Hello ex, I thank God that we have the opportunity to express each of us our varied opinions. You and I and All are provided that great blessing by a Most Gracious God. But Brother here's the problem with discussing this and the many other doctrinal issue we disagree on, we tend to believe what we believe and vehemently defend our stances, and it is rare we will ever convince one another otherwise. I am not saying this has happened here but feelings are easily offended and Brothers and Sisters hurt, NOT GOOD satan wins. Good Biblical study and discussion must be just that, Amen? I think if you study all of her posts you can easily see what LadyC was saying about God Salvation and Grace are Gifts from God. Your own Scripture post says so: eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them. Not that she was denying the need for Jesus or that she is saved by God. I think you realized what she was saying but for the sake of arguing... Jesus by His Actions provides Payment for sin and God by His Actions accepts Jesus Payment and cancels our debt. Without both Actions are we Forgiven and Saved? Now enlighten me Brother and any others feel free to respond. Simple question when Adam originally brought sin into this world did he sin against Jesus or God or both? Please I know I am a newbie here but IMHO should not we always edify, lift up, enligthen and teach one another is that not a purpose of this board? Dugmando

Hi Akiko, Nothing can seperate you from the Love of Christ for His Love is Everlasting it has to be why else would He have Chosen the Cross but because He Loves us and will always Love us regardless of if we always choose to love Him. Him loving us and us refusing or walking away from Grace to me is two different things. Dugmando

Hello ex, Well being full of sin man has a problem, he is seperated from God because as we know God has no part of sin. The relationship of Creator and His Creation is marred by and because of sin. Jesus solved that problem by His sacrifice at Calvary, He being sinless took on sin and paid the price for sin by the shedding of His Blood as payment for sin. His act alone supplied redemption for all of mankind. This Act of Love is undeserved by all of mankind (I do not deserve it)but by God's Merciful Grace it is extended to all of mankind to accept as a free gift. That is why it is such a unforgiveable act to reject or to walk away from such a Wonderful Free Gift of Grace and Mercy. But now as LadyC has explained losing and snatching in her post I must admit I have never considered this like that and I think I must really mull this over. Hmmm. Very Interesting Still I believe I can choose to walk away from Grace, God is not Dictator nor Bully if I refuse or walk away from His Gift of Grace will He force me to accept? I think not Dugmando

Might I also add IMHO All Christians face a daily battle with sin so to me it is not a oops I made a terrible mistake today so I must not be going to Heaven. To willfully and to purposely choose to walk away from the Grace of God, YOU not a third party, not satan, not anyone but YOU have chosen to pluck yourself out of Grace and the Only Hope for mankind. This truly would then fit the specs for blasphmy of the Holy Ghost Dugmando

Hello exrockstar, Hope you and all are having a Blessed Day! If I may I would like to do as you do in your replies to many by asking you a question, take it a some what silly one but it has a point. Often times the Christian life is rightfully so compared to a walk or a journey. One step at a time, one day at a time all walking toward the Son. Now if I choose of my own free will to turn around and go back away from Him, which way am I walkin how many steps do I have to take to be going away from the way I was heading? If you or I where to do this in a real sense the second you choose to reverse your course you have started in a different direction and if you stopped at a certain point and walked in the opposite direction its not long before you are out of site and hearing range from your stopping point. Dugmando

Again ex, I first of all, commend you for your sense of study of the Word. Many do not choose to take time to learn for themselves and seem to base their beliefs only on what others tell them, but with that said if my Pastor mostly preached nuggets of truth surrounded by "fat" as you termed it then its time to find new Pastor. I know I know many Preachers do it and not every word they speak is from God and Study and we must know in whom and what we believe so we must study ourselves. But if I do not agree with your sense of OSAS does not mean I don't grasp Scripture, As we have discussed (in Luke 9) I see something totally different than you. I see a possibility I can choose myself to look back and not be fit for the kingdom. To me this is saying if I choose to look back, to long for, to lust for, then I am by my own actions wanting the old life and as a dog returning to his own vomit, hence i'm denying the Wonderful Gift God gave me. If a person who has overcome some addiction such as alchol, drugs, porno and then that person starts looking back have they then really overcome. I bet you would not trust your family's welfare or your children around them if they where still exhibiting these traits. Please don't take this statement that I am saying as if I would not trust a person who has truly overcome some addiction I would, I am, for I have overcome some of this in my own life, but if that person keeps looking back that is a different story. Question if you try to eat something not fit what do you do with it? You throw it out. I hope and pray you guys are correct with OSAS many good Christians struggle with this. Most Important thing is not whether we agree but if we can come together and lift each other up in Christ. way more important than whose right or wrong and if you can't see that then.... Dugmando

Well exrockstar, I did look up the word "fit" in Strongs concord. ref# 2111, euthetos, yoo-thet-os, well placed i.e. (fig) APPROPIATE:- fit, meet. Now if you factor in Jesus's saying Anyone who put his hand to the plough and then looks back they are not fit or you can imply not APPROPIATE for the Kingdom. Now I know you have it in you to understand this if your not APPROPIATE for something what does that make you? Wrong, Not Appropiate: Not Fitting, Not Timely, or Unsuitable Not Fitting=Unfit, Unfit means: 1. unsuitable: unsuitable for a specific purpose 2. unqualified: lacking the necessary skills or qualifications to perform a specific task adequately I guess next your going to say look up Kingdom because it's not Jesus's Kingdom Strongs concord. ref# 932: basileia, bas-il-i ah, from 935 prop. Kingdom-Royalty i.e. (abstr)rule, or(concr) a realm (lit. or fig.) Kingdom+reign Strongs concord. ref# 935: basileus, bas-il-yooce, prob. from 939(through the notion of a foundation of power)a sovereign. Strongs concord.ref# 939 basis, bas-ece, from baino, (to walk); a pace ("base"), i.e. (by impl.) the foot:-foot. I reckon maybe you think its a little hard for us that lean toward the belief of non-OSAS to understand this but answer me if the word for Kingdom is dervived for all these different references: Base, or foot and Sovereign (through the notion of foundation of power) and Kingdom and Royalty What Kingdom is the Basis/Foundation of Power if that Kingdom is not the Kingdom of God? What Sovereignty has Rule over all if that Kingdom is not God's? What Kingdom-Royalty is above all others if it is not The Lord's And what Kingdom are you not FIT/APPROPIATE for because you've placed your hand to the plough and then looked back if this does not refer to the Kingdom of God? Maybe you are having a problem with understanding the comparsion of the plough and the Christian life Why even a dumb country boy like me knows that a plough's main function is to turn the earth upside down Shouldn't We instead of debating about doctrinal issues be turning the World upside down for Our Savior? Whew I'm about to have a running streak, Praise Jesus! God Bless You and Good Luck to You Too and I also know you have it in you to see this it seems plain to me of course now I do live in the South, Dugmando and Yes, Friend God Loves You!

Greetings to All, Isn't there something in the Bible written in Red ( Luke 9:62) about a person putting their hand to the plough and then looking back then the verse goes on to say a little something about them not being fit for the Kingdom. But I guess the One Who Spoke it wasn't talking about His Followers and certainly that doesn't apply to God's Kingdom WELL DUH! DUGMANDO

Hello Hupo, God Bless and greetings to my newly found friend, One more thing that I would like to add to this discussion a truth that all of us must or should acknowledge as being true that God's kingdom is made up of many different Children with many different beliefs but one single truth that makes us all One. That being the Truth of Jesus Christ, Savior whose Blood was shed for All that All through Him might be Saved! Thus saying that, if we having these many various viewpoints on doctrinal matters can be brought together by One as One. Can we or better yet should not we, also extend to one another the Grace, to say I may not believe like you nor understand your beliefs and yet still be Brothers and Sisters remembering the One who makes Us One. Hupo if you or any other chooses to seek more of God, a Deeper and Greater Knowledge of Him and His Ways and Will and of His many many Glorious Blessings may God open up His Wonderful Word and reveal it to you. Matthew 7:7 Ask, and it shall be given you; Seek, and you shall find; Knock, and it shall be opened unto you. is a promise none of us can live without! One other thought came to me as I looked back over this, a quote from the Bible and I right off the top of my head cannot remember where it is from but You have not because You ask not, ask God to reveal His Truth on Baptism to You and I'm just crazy enough to believe He will. God help us in these last days to take our focus off the various doctrinal issues that seperate us and place them solely on the One who is so Worthy Dugmando

Hello Hupo and all others that are contributing to this thread, I would ask a few questions that may are may not help. Is there reference to the outpouring of the Holy Spirit in the Bible? The Answer is simply YES! Wait, yes there maybe many disagreements on many different facets about the Baptism but simple truth is it's in there. Alright and more importantly what was the main purpose of the outpouring on these early believers? To enpower and strengthen the Church in the absence of Jesus. Not to save the believer, not to create a seperate class of Christians, But to so ignite in this early movement a burning desire to EVANGELIZE the world! And might I add that is still His main purpose today to cause us to EVANGELIZE the World not to make Pentecostals better than Non-Pentecostals! By the Way I am a Pentecostal Church Member and Assoc. Pastor Now what "acts" by the Apostles and Disciples brought about the Outpouring? The fact that they where all in one accord in other words ALL IN UNITY! The Wonderful Gifts of the Baptism of The Holy Ghost were not given by God to cause us to fuss if we don't understand them. But given to edify, to build up and to strengthen one another. Some say that was for them only, a different time and day. Well the enemy I face everyday is no less formiable today than he was back then, he still goes about as that same roaring lion walking to and fro seeking whom he may devour. And he still desires to destroy each and everyone of God's Children no matter whether you believe or do not believe in the Baptism. Friends if I must examine and try to understand each and every fine point to the nth degree about this and the many other scriptural doctrines we tend to fuss about. Will I ever really be as that small child which Jesus used as an example to teach His Disciples as they asked Him who could believe? A small child doesn't understand everything they just simply trust and believe. Seeking God and His Will and Desiring to be Enpowered to Lift up My Brothers and Sisters and to most of all Win the Lost and increase the Kingdom of God, Dugmando

Thanks for the kind welcome to all, May God Greatly Bless |You all today even more than He has already, to Vickilynn I am sorry I did not mean to say or imply that "only" denoms know about or have understanding, belief or even unbelief about the Holy Spirit. What I was trying to say was that your level of belief or non- belief, your level of acceptance or resistance typically tends to depend for many people on what they have heard or been taught traditionally from a particular denom. and not as in your case learned or experienced. I myself was brought up in the Catholic faith but after many years of unfulfillment believing that there was more to God and religion began to seek a deeper understanding of Him and Scriptures. Now first of all this is not a slam on the |Catholic faith but for me I had to seek more of God and the more I sought the more He revealed. Dugmando

Hi Guys, First let me say I am new to this board joined just today and don't know what has been discussed in the past. But this I do know that believing in and understanding the Baptism of the Holy Spirit greatly depends on which denom. you've come from, what I mean is if your from a non-Pentecostal background the likelihood you know much about the Baptism is probably nil. But those of us that have been around Pentecostal Churches seemingly all our lives have little doubt in believing in This and understand that This is a Wonderful Gift from God. Something to be desired and sought from God. Dugmando