4Pillars

Dear Ovedya, It

Be very careful here. this strongly hints at Gnosticism. Man was flesh and blood from the beginning. He was created as such! This is actually the Gnostic heresy in a nutshell. The misinterpretation of 1 Cor. 15. is one of the serious errors involved with Gnosticism. I'm glad that you're not Jehovah's Witness, but they essentially promote the Gnostic heresy, and your theology is clearly leaning that way. Dear Ovedya, OIC, anybody who disagree with your religious assumption is considered heresy or promoting unchristian like doctrinal faith, would that be a fair assessment of your position. No rebuttal to offer on the above issues brought forth, correct? How convenient. Now, based on you assumption, please explain to us 1 Corinthians 15 and how it relates the first and last Adam . I like to say, I am pretty sure, just like your stand on the "original sin", your understanding is flawed -- but let me give you the benefit of the doubt, anyway. I am all ears....... God Bless

Right. Yet this has nothing to do with the inheritance of sin from Adam. The sin that ll of humanity is born into is a corruption of the soul and a blockage from the tree of life - from God's eternal life. Every man is accountable for his own sin, as the verse says. There is no contradiction. BTW: Are you a Jehovah's Witness by any chance? Dear Ovedya, What we inherited from Adam is our natural corruptable body (flesh and blood) not the "original sin" -- that is why you need to be Born Again Spiritually from natural birth in order to inherit the kingdom of God. -- if that's what your trying to accomplish. Read again... 1 Corinthians 15 46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual. v47 The first man is of the earth, earthy; the second man is the Lord from heaven. v48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly. v49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly. v50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. See, even Adam had to be created in the image and likeness of God spiritually (born again) after they have sinned (Gen. 5:1-3) in order to inherit the kingdom of God. So, please, let us not continue blaming A&E for our own iniquity. Had it not been the case, perhaps, we won't be here enjoying our own little world -- waiting for the eternal life as promised. BTW, I don't belong to any organized denomination. I am a born again Christian. God Bless

No, that is simply wrong. The bible is clear we are born into sin from the moment of our conception we have the seed of Adam of sin we are corrupted never innocent, you cannot deny original sin. Christ saves little children as much as Christ saves older people. There is no such thing as an age of accountability in scripture nor is it implied. According to the Scripture.... "House and riches are the inheritance of fathers: and a prudent wife is from the LORD." Proverbs 19:14 "The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him." Ezekiel 18:20 God Bless

Dear Readers, Here is where the Creation is perfected: "in the beginning God created the Heavens and the earth" (Gen 1:1) "I saw a new heaven and a new earth" (Rev 21:1) ____________________________________________ "The gathering together of waters He called the Sea" (Gen1:10) "And the Sea is no more" (Rev 21:1) ____________________________________________ "The darkness He called Night" (Gen 1:5) "there shall be no night there" (Rev 21:25) ____________________________________________ God made the two great lights (sun and moon)" (Gen1:16) "the city has no need of the Sun nor the Moon" (Rev 21:23) ____________________________________________ "in the day you eat thereof you shall surely die" (Gen 2:17) "death shall be no more" (Rev 21:14) ____________________________________________ "I will greatly multiply your pain" (Gen 3:16) "Neither shall there be pain anymore" (Rev 21:4) ____________________________________________ "cursed is the ground for your sake" (Gen 3:17) "There shall be no more curse" (Rev 22:3) ____________________________________________ Satan appears as the deceiver of mankind (Gen 3:1-4) Satan disappears forever (Rev 20:10) ____________________________________________ They were driven from the Tree of Life (gen 3:22-24) The Tree of Life re-appears (Rev 22:2) ____________________________________________ They were driven from God's presence (Gen 3:24) "they shall see His face" (Rev 22:4) ____________________________________________ Man's primeval home was by a river (Gen 2:10) Man's Eternal home will be beside a river (Rev 22:1) ____________________________________________ Please remember that God doesn't stop creating things that are only considered very good, He CREATES them PERFECT. His real Creation, which is perfect, is the 3rd Heaven where all Christians will be when this world is burned. When these prophecies are fulfilled, God's Creation of His Perfect Heaven, will be completed, and brought to Perfection....Finished. Then God will Rest or Sabbath (Gen. 2:3), and He will Cease "ALL His work which God created and made." . The 7th day of God has no end - eternal. God Bless

Dear rtwo, God wrote the Bible with His terms, not ours. It matters Not what I interpret. What matters is that which is written in Scripture, and in the Rocks, must agree, or the interpretation is wrong. I realize that what I post is controversial, but I also realize that it agrees not only with Scripture, but also with true Science, and History. I do not write the things I write to cause others, problems, but I write to cause others to read and study Scripture, and to see that God's Word is the Truth in every way. God Bless

Gen 2:3 - "And God blessed the seventh day and made it holy, for on it, He rested from all the work creating He had done." I would note that these are in the past-tense, meaning that God -did- rest. God -did- say it was good. You have not provided Scripture that supports your points to the contrary. You have not provided a single verse that says, "Genesis said this, but what it meant was..." . The reason you have not done this is that such verses do not exist. I do find it amusing that you "DENY" my assertions based on a lack of scriptural foundation, when the only foundation you yourself have is your own unfounded interpretation. Dear rtwo, Your great, learned, theologians don't even know what Day it is. Now you have proclaimed to know that Genesis chapter 1 is only figurative or poetic, but Not True Literally. That's what the Liberals teach about everything they CANNOT understand. That's why they preach it almost exclusively, because they are so ignorant of God's Truth. It's just myth, they say, just teaching stories. It can't be true Literally, because we can't prove that Physically. I am sorry you have so much trouble understanding Scripture. God has but 7 Days. He has 6 Creative Days in which He labors to bring His Creation to Perfection. At the end of the 6th Day or Age, God gives man to eat of Every tree, including the Tree of Life. God also gives ALL animals to eat herbs as meat. Genesis 1:30 does Not say will become. It says and it was so. Since it has Never been so, that every animal was a vegetarian, it should be obvious that this is Prophecy of the events which will occur at the end of the present 6th Day. At the end of the present 6th Day, God's Perfect Heaven will be Finished or brought to Perfection. Then, He will Rest, that is, He will Cease to Create, and the 6th Day will end. As I have posted before, the first chapter of the Bible tells the complete History of how God created the Perfect Heaven. God wrote our History, before the events are complete. The Bible was written for the past, present, and future. It is relevant for today, and tomorrow. Written by the Supreme Intelligence, it's just too hard for poor, ignorant, unbelievers to comprehend. The only way they will understand is to pray for more wisdom and understanding. Read & Learn

"Very clear" is in the eyes of the beholder. It is NOT very clear to me. I tend to be kind of suspicious about "very clear" things. Sometimes when things are very clear it stops us seeing things through other people's eyes. If things were so clear, the whole of humanity would see God for who He realy is! It is very clear to me that I have a right to live in my country. It is very clear to Achmadinijad that Israel shouldn't exist. The result of all this "very clear" stuff is a very unclear future ! As for scripture. God gave me a certain understanding which is probably less than many on this forum. Yet, that is what I have at my disposal to get to know God. For me there is a certain paradox between the creation of man in chapters 1 and 2. The paradox is not in scripture. The paradox is in my understanding. Why is there such a need, by several here, to prove otherwise? If the forum told me I can only see things in a certain way I would probably not even be here, but that is not the case, so please allow me my paradoxes. I promise you that whatever I think, is not going to make a dent in the actual TRUTH God bless Dear FresnoJoe, I agree. Each Christian has his own measure of information. I do not question the work of the Holy Spirit, for His ways are above my ways. Each Christian learns what he should know, as the Holy Spirit leads him. That's how God has chosen to reveal His Truth. Look at all the denominations. If you look at Christianity as a big Pie, and see all the denominations as slices in the pie, you will find that God's Truth is in the whole pie, and that each slice teaches only part of God's Truth. Why? Because ONLY those who have Faith, not knowledge, can enter the Kingdom of God. The complexity of views of the various denominations assure that we must come to God by Faith alone, no matter the denomination. God Bless

Dear rtwo, Scripture says that those who have not been born again have eyes which CANNOT see, and ears which CANNOT hear. Tell us of your mysterious ability to see into the mind of another. BTW, like most young earthers, you cannot use Scripture to support your opinions. You can only use your interpretational methods which don't agree with Scripture, Science, nor History. You base your "proper interpretation" on your religion's views. The Un-Scriptural idea, that the 6 Creative Days and the 1 Day of Rest, are 24 hour periods of Time, is refuted by Scripture. The 7th Day has no End. However, your continuing objection is well noted but DENIED due to lack of Scriptural merit and based only on hearsay as indicated above. God Bless

Dear hupo, The Scripture is very clear in documenting us the Generations of Adam, IN THE DAY (very specific time of event) they were created in the image and likeness of God. Genesis 5:1-3 As I have asserted before, this event took place only AFTER both A&E have already committed their "original sin"; Cain had already Killed Abel and only after MAN BEGAN CALLING THE NAME OF THE LORD. (Genesis 4:26). Look and read closely... Genesis 5 1 This is the book of the generations of Adam. IN THE DAY that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him; v2 Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created. v3 And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, and after his image; and called his name Seth: As you can see, the context of the text is also consistent as outlined and summarized in Genesis chapter 1. Genesis 4:26 & 5:1-3 is documenting us the detail of Genesis 1:26-27. Also, notice, Cain and his descendants were not included or part of the generations of Adam in the day they were created in the likeness of God. The next generation in his likeness was Seth. As I have said before... Not everybody is created in the image and likeness of God unless one is born again spiritually from NATURAL BIRTH. Additional Biblical Proof? 1Corinthians 15 45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit. v46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is NATURAL; and afterward that which is spiritual. God Bless

Dear EricH, ll Corinthians 12:2 tells us of the Apostle Paul being taken to the 3rd Heaven. IOW, in 1/30th of a second, God takes people from one world to another. God speaks and events happen. This is something which those who worship the Physical, have trouble understanding. Was Paul a Spaceship? Of course not. Neither was the Ark a Spaceship nor Noah a Spaceman. They were brought to this Planet similar to the way, Paul, the Apostle, was taken to the 3rd Heaven. All Christians will be taken to the 3rd Heaven, at the Rapture. Would you call them a fleet of Spaceships? The first Heaven was destroyed in the Flood. ll Peter 3:5-7 The present second Heaven (our world) will be Burned. ll Peter 3:7 The third Heaven is where Jesus has gone to prepare a place for us. It is beyond our World. John 14:1-2 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me. V2 In my Father's house are MANY MANSIONS: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. God Bless

The source originated on the 5th Day when God created EVERY living creature that moveth, from the water abundantly Gen 1:21. This includes the making of the "prehistoric beings" as referred to by our scientist, but called sons of God by our Lord. And God bless THEM and told THEM to multiply as documented on the 5th day (Genesis 1:22). Genesis 6 tells us that when they married the daughters of Adam, Great and Mighty men, were the offspring. Cain's descendants were a dead end. After some 1620 years, they were all destroyed in the universal Flood. Today's Humans can trace their origin to Adam through Seth. God also called Adam and Eve's name "Adam" (Hebrew-mankind) in the Day they were created in God's Image. Gen 5:2 The source on this Planet was Noah. When Noah arrived, his sons were married, but his grandsons, like Cain, married the Prehistoric people who were here when Noah arrived. Incest is NEVER part of the blessing of our Lord, in the process of multiplication of mankind. This filthy assumption of other religious views is only based on the imagination of those who don

Here's my take... Gen. 6:1-5 shows the sons of God (prehistoric mankind) married the daughter of man (Adam), and their offspring became MIGHTY MEN of old. These men inherited the Human Intelligence of Adam, but were wicked, and unbelieving. Their violent nature caused the destruction of their world. Gen. 6:13 Gen. 6:4 calls these men GIANTS and MIGHTY MEN OF OLD - 1st world -- and the text also indicates that this union between them and Adam's descendants, would happen again...."AND ALSO AFTER THAT"... is prophecy that the sons of God and the descendants of Adam would also unite here on earth, after their first union of their former world. Gen. 10:8 fulfills the prophecy of Gen. 6:4 after Noah arrived on this planet and Cush marries a woman whose ancestors originated in the water. Cush, like Cain, had No one to marry, except the the prehistoric beings or mankind created on the 5th day. Gen. 10:8

Following your illogical assumption, I guess, the begging question for you is .... DO YOU HAVE ANY SCRIPTURE TO PROVE ME WRONG OR SUSTAIN YOUR OBJECTION WITH MERIT? Thanks

Dear LAW, Thank you so much for being open minded. It feels satisfying when someone like you can relate to my research and understanding. May the good Lord share you more wisdom and blessings. God Bless

Dear hupo, There

Dear ruck1b, Just like you, most of Christian Brethren do Not agree with me but they see that I support my views with Scripture, but most have Never been taught what I post. In time, they accept me, but cling to the ideas they have been taught. I post to try to get others to read it for themselves, and compare it with what they have been taught. I do not write things to cause others, problems, but to cause others to read and study Scripture, and to see that God's Word is the Truth in every way. God Bless

Dear rtwo, Jesus is the Light of the 1st Day. Jesus is the Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. Again, In the Garden of Gethsemane, just before His Crucification, Jesus prays to the Father: And now, O Father, glorify thou Me with Thine Own Self with the glory which I had with Thee before the world was. John 17:5 Glory is Brightness, a Physical trait. Jesus is speaking of His Physical Brightness which He shared with the Father, Before the world was. Before the world was can only be the 1st Day, since the first World was made on the 2nd Day. Gen 1:6-8 He was brought forth (begotten) into the Physical World from the invisible realm of the Father on the 1st Day. Jesus is the Light of the 1st Day, the Light of the first 3 Days, since the Sun was not made until the 4th Day. Jesus is also the Light of Heaven: And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof. Rev 21:23 Jesus is the beginning and the end. Jesus is LORD. Your unfounded opinion is only based on your religious view which is not supported by the Scripture to sustain your continuing objection. Just so you have an idea.... Genesis 1 is the History of the Creation of the 3rd Heaven. It details the History of How the Godhead Created His Perfect, physical, World. Most of it is past, but some of it is future. Gen. 1:29 shows us Prophecy that mankind will Eat of Every Tree, which includes the Tree of Life. This prophecy is fulfilled in Heaven. Rev. 22:2. Gen. 1:30 is also future and will be fulfilled when Jesus Returns to this Planet, and the Lion eats Straw as the Ox. Isaiah 11:7 This Prophecy is Future because mankind has NEVER eaten of Every Tree and there has NEVER been a time when ALL animals were vegetarians. The Prophecy of Genesis 1:29-30 has NOT yet happened, which means that we remain in the 6th Day. When these prophecies are fulfilled, God's Creation of His Perfect Heaven, will be completed, and brought to Perfection....Finished. Then God will Rest or Sabbath, and He will Cease "ALL His work which God created and made." Gen. 2:3 Isaiah 65:17 For, behold, I create New Heavens and a New Earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind. God Bless

Dear ruck1b, There's no contradiction - just wrong interpretation. Let mel refer you back to my previous post... # 7 Please read again with open mind.

Dear ruck1b, Here's how you reconcile the Story of the Beginning BEFORE God created the heaven and the earth, ref. (Genesis 1:1) based strickly on the Scripture. Note: Insertions are mine for clarity of thoughts. In the beginning was the Word (Light), and the Word was with God (Father), and the Word was God (Son). John 1:1 The LORD possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old. Proverbs 8:22 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. Genesis 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God. John 1:2 I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was. Proverbs 8:23 And God said, LET THERE BE LIGHT: and there was light. Genesis 1:3 Note: The first WORD spoken by God as recorded in the Scripture. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. John 1:3 When there were no depths, I was brought forth; when there were no fountains abounding with water. Proverbs 8:24 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness. Genesis 1:4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men. John 1:4 Before the mountains were settled, before the hills was I brought forth: Proverbs 8:25 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day. Genesis 1:5 Based on the above three (3) witnesses (Scriptures), notice the texts are documenting us How and When the

Dear rtwo, Jesus is God and was with His Father before the Beginning of the Physical World. When God said, Let there be Light (Gen. 1:3), Jesus came forth from the invisible Spirit of Love into the Physical World and became the Only God ever Physically formed or that ever will be Physically formed. He was Not Created, since He was already God in the beginning. Jesus was the True Light duriing during the beginning of the Creation process (John 1:9), just as He will be the Light of Heaven in the end, which has No need for the Sun nor Moon to shine in it (Rev. 21:1-3). Without Jesus was Not anything made which was made, because Everything Physical was made by the Physical Hands of the Only God, the Only Image, the Only Begotten, of the Invisible Spirit of God. When we get to Heaven, we will truly understand that Jesus is the One God, for In Him dwelleth ALL of the fulness of the Godhead, Bodily (physically). Now, concerning the Creation, Genesis chapter 1 is an Outline of ALL of the events leading to the Creation of the Perfect Heaven, literally speaking. Most of the rest of the Bible refers to the present 6th Day, but ALL of the Bible refers to the events of God's 6 Creative Days. That's why we are taken back to the 3rd Day at Gen 2:4. The narrative is adding details to the events listed in Gen 1. Both accounts agree totally and in detail. What is amazing is that God wrote our History more than 3,000 years ago, and the events at the end of the 6th Day are still Future. IOW, God told the complete story of the Creation in Genesis 1 and beginning at Gen 2:4, we begin to learn the details of the events of Genesis 1. The Bible was written for the past, present, and future. It is relevant for today, and tomorrow. Written by the Supreme Intelligence, it's just too hard for others and unbelievers to comprehend. God Bless

There are several reasons why I believe that the word used in Gen. 1:1 is Heaven and not Heavens (plural) as it relate to the Story of the Beginning of Genesis. In the context of the text, I see the narrative as saying: In the beginning God Created the heaven (Air) and the Earth (Ground). And the Earth (Ground) was without form, (Dust) and void; (Empty) and darkness (Death) was upon the face of the deep, (Water) and the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. The 3 elements necessary for all physical form are shown... Air, Dust, and Water. Everything which is physical is composed of these 3 elements. The text is correct in showing that the water was not directly created, or spoken into being, because it consists of elements of the Air or Atmosphere. Water is Hydrogen and Oxygen and came from the Atmosphere and is not shown as a separate creation. This is correct in today's scientific knowledge, but IF the Bible were written by Ancient men, Moses would not have known this. He would have written that in the beginning God created the Air, Dust, and Water, but since God Himself is the Author, He correctly shows that the Atmosphere and Ground were created, and the Water was not a separate creation but instead, came from the Atmosphere. JMHO God Bless

Dear rtwo, The 1st Firmament or Heaven was made on the 2nd Day. Gen 1:6-8 It was formed in the midst or middle of the Water, and Water was above and below it. IOW, the 1st Heaven, was surrounded by water. It was later destroyed, totally and completely, by that same Water, when the "windows of heaven were opened. Gen. 7:11 Our Heaven or Universe was made on the 3rd Day. Gen 2:4-5 The Big Bang happened on the 3rd Day, the same Day Jesus made our Heaven or Kosmos, and also the 3rd Heaven. ll Corinthians 12:2 tells us of the Apostle Paul being taken to the 3rd Heaven. The first Heaven was destroyed in the Flood. ll Peter 3:5-7 The present second Heaven will be Burned. ll Peter 3:7 The third Heaven is where Jesus has gone to prepare a place for us. It is beyond our World. God Bless

The narrative of Gen. 1:1-2 is speaking of the period BEFORE the 1st Day. Gen. 1:6-8 shows that the first Firmament or Heaven, as God calls it in Gen. 1:8 was formed on the 2nd Day. Jesus speaks of this time, in the Garden of Gethsemane: And now, O Father, glorify thou Me with Thine Own Self with the Glory which I had with Thee BEFORE the world was." John 17:5 If one believes that In the beginning God created the Heavens (Plural) BEFORE the 1st Day, then the Words of Jesus would seem to be in error. If one believes that the 1st Firmament or Heaven was formed on the 2nd Day, then it would agree with Jesus, and would show that Jesus came into the World Before the 1st Heaven was formed. Any thought? God Bless