Retrobyter

Shalom, joi. I absolutely believe that this is true. Yeshua`s (Jesus') "ministry" was actually His offer of the Kingdom to the Jews. Just as David before Him, He was to be accepted as King of Y'hudah (Judah) or "King of the Jews" before becoming King of Isra'el. Eventually, He will also become the King of Kings, a title for an emperor such as that declared by Nebuchadnezzar. He extended His hand to the Jews and the elders of that tribe, the P'rushiym (Pharisees) and Ts'dukiym (Sadducees), as well as the Cohaniym (the Priests), slapped His hand away! Only the children and His disciples welcomed Him when He rode into Yerushalayim upon that foal of a donkey. I've discussed this at length before, but the "he" of Dani'el 9:27 CANNOT refer to the "prince that shall come" in verse 26 because, in the KJV English translation, the "prince that shall come" is the object of a preposition. I understand the rule of grammar that says, "Pronouns refer us back to the closest previous noun." Some feel that the “he” of verse 27, being a personal pronoun, refers to the closest previous personal noun, in this case the “ruler who will come,” but one also needs to understand the rule of grammar about prepositional phrases. When a prepositional phrase is used in a sentence, the phrase itself can act as an adjective or an adverb, but the individual words within the phrase CANNOT participate directly in the basic structure of the sentence. The object of the preposition cannot be the subject nor can a verb included in the prepositional phrase as part of the object be the predicate of the sentence. The individual parts within a phrase or clause do not participate directly within the fundamental sentence. As such, the pronoun "he," which is the subject of the very next sentence, CANNOT refer to the object of the preposition in the prepositional phrase "of the prince that shall come." Break down the sentence in verse 26 or diagram it to help you understand this: Dani'el 9:26 26 And ---------------------------------conjunction after threescore and two weeks -prepositional phrase shall -------------------------------------helping verb Messiah --------------------------------subject be cut -----------------------------------helping verb/verb = predicate off, ---------------------------------------adverb but ---------------------------------------conjunction not ---------------------------------------adverb for himself: ----------------------------adverbial prepositional phrase and --------------------------------------conjunction the ---------------------------------------definite article adjective people ----------------------------------subject of the prince that shall come -----prepositional phrase with embedded clause shall destroy --------------------------helping verb/verb = predicate the --------------------------------------article adjective city --------------------------------------direct object and -------------------------------------conjunction the --------------------------------------definite article adjective sanctuary; ----------------------------direct object and -------------------------------------conjunction the --------------------------------------definite article adjective end -------------------------------------subject thereof ---------------------------------adjective shall be --------------------------------helping verb/intransitive verb = predicate with a flood, --------------------------prepositional phrase and -------------------------------------conjunction unto the end -------------------------prepositional phrase of the war -----------------------------prepositional phrase desolations ---------------------------subject are determined.----------------------helping verb/reflexive verb = predicate. KJV Thus, the noun associated with the personal pronoun "he" should go back to the nearest, singular, personal subject or direct object within the previous sentence. That would be the "Messiah." This also works out the same in Hebrew. The Hebrew does not have the "prepositional phrase," but it DOES have what is known as a "noun construct state," which we frequently translate with prepositional phrases. For instance, if a construct state is "been haa'iysh," translated as "the son of the man" or "the man's son," used in a sentence, and the next sentence begins with a verb that implies a singular subject such that we would translate it with a beginning pronoun, "he," that "he" would refer to "been" NOT "haa'iysh!" The "he" would have as its antecedent "the son," NOT "the man!" The construct state in verse 26 is "`am naagiyd habaa'," which is translated "the people of the prince that shall come." The word "`am," "the people," could be the antecedent for some future pronoun, but not "naagiyd," "of the prince." In Hebrew, just as in the English translation, the reader must go back farther to find the antecedent, back to "Maashiyach," "Messiah." Now, look at verse 27: Dani'el 9:27 27 V'higbiyr briyt laarabiym shaavuwa` echaad: Vachatsiy hashaavuwa` yashbiyt zebach uwminchaah: V`al knaf shiquwtsiym mshomeem v`ad kaalaah vnecheraatsaah titakh `al shomeem: JPS Hebrew-English Tanakh (transliterated) 27 V'higbiyr = 27 And-he-shall-strengthen briyt = a-covenant laarabiym = to-many shaavuwa` = Seven echaad: = one: Vachatsiy = And-in-middle-of-it hashaavuwa` = the-Seven yashbiyt = he-shall-stop zebach = sacrifice uwminchaah: = and-gift: V`al = And-against knaf = a-spread-out-wing shiquwtsiym = of-abominations mshomeem = he-shall-desolate-it v`ad = also-until kaalaah = (the)-end: vnecheraatsaah = And-the-sentence titakh = shall-be-poured `al = against shomeem: = (the)-desolate: The covenant that He strengthened was not the Old Covenant nor was it the New Covenant. It was the DAVIDIC Covenant! And, all Yeshua` had to do to strengthen that covenant was to FULFILL SCRIPTURE! He was already called the "King of the Jews" by the Magi shortly after His birth, and when He submitted Himself to be baptized by Yochanan (John), notice what He said to Yochanan: Matthew 3:13-17 13 Then cometh Jesus from Galilee to Jordan unto John, to be baptized of him. 14 But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me? 15 And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him. 16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him: 17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. KJV Most Christians do not understand the importance of what God said about His Son, here! It was MORE than just acknowledging Yeshua` as His Son! It was ALSO the fulfillment of Scripture: 1 Chronicles 22:8-10 8 But the word of the Lord came to me, saying, Thou hast shed blood abundantly, and hast made great wars: thou shalt not build an house unto my name, because thou hast shed much blood upon the earth in my sight. 9 Behold, a son shall be born to thee, who shall be a man of rest; and I will give him rest from all his enemies round about: for his name shall be Solomon, and I will give peace and quietness unto Israel in his days. 10 He shall build an house for my name; and he shall be my son, and I will be his father; and I will establish the throne of his kingdom over Israel for ever. KJV 1 Chronicles 28:6-9 6 And he said unto me, Solomon thy son, he shall build my house and my courts: for I have chosen him to be my son, and I will be his father. 7 Moreover I will establish his kingdom for ever, if he be constant to do my commandments and my judgments, as at this day. 8 Now therefore in the sight of all Israel the congregation of the Lord, and in the audience of our God, keep and seek for all the commandments of the Lord your God: that ye may possess this good land, and leave it for an inheritance for your children after you for ever. 9 And thou, Solomon my son, know thou the God of thy father, and serve him with a perfect heart and with a willing mind: for the Lord searcheth all hearts, and understandeth all the imaginations of the thoughts: if thou seek him, he will be found of thee; but if thou forsake him, he will cast thee off for ever. KJV Hosea 11:1 1 When Israel was a child, then I loved him, and called my son out of Egypt. KJV Isaiah 9:6-7 6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. 7 Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the Lord of hosts will perform this. KJV Psalm 89:1-4, 20-37 1 I will sing of the mercies of the Lord for ever: with my mouth will I make known thy faithfulness to all generations. 2 For I have said, Mercy shall be built up for ever: thy faithfulness shalt thou establish in the very heavens. 3 I have made a covenant with my chosen, I have sworn unto David my servant, 4 Thy seed will I establish for ever, and build up thy throne to all generations. Selah. ... 20 I have found David my servant; with my holy oil have I anointed him: 21 With whom my hand shall be established: mine arm also shall strengthen him. 22 The enemy shall not exact upon him; nor the son of wickedness afflict him. 23 And I will beat down his foes before his face, and plague them that hate him. 24 But my faithfulness and my mercy shall be with him: and in my name shall his horn be exalted. 25 I will set his hand also in the sea, and his right hand in the rivers. 26 He shall cry unto me, Thou art my father, my God, and the rock of my salvation. 27 Also I will make him my firstborn, higher than the kings of the earth. 28 My mercy will I keep for him for evermore, and my covenant shall stand fast with him. 29 His seed also will I make to endure for ever, and his throne as the days of heaven. 30 If his children forsake my law, and walk not in my judgments; 31 If they break my statutes, and keep not my commandments; 32 Then will I visit their transgression with the rod, and their iniquity with stripes. 33 Nevertheless my lovingkindness will I not utterly take from him, nor suffer my faithfulness to fail. 34 My covenant will I not break, nor alter the thing that is gone out of my lips. 35 Once have I sworn by my holiness that I will not lie unto David. 36 His seed shall endure forever, and his throne as the sun before me. 37 It shall be established for ever as the moon, and as a faithful witness in heaven. Selah. KJV So, when God said, "This is my beloved Son," He was confirming - strengthening - the Covenant that He had made with David and with His seed (Yeshua`) forever! And, yes, you are right that Yeshua` stopped the sacrifice and the gift when He died upon the cross. Some think that because the priests continued to perform the sacrifice rituals that they didn't end, but one must ask the question, "Who determines if a slaughtering is an acceptable sacrifice?" Wouldn't the answer to that question be GOD?! And, God was no longer accepting animal sacrifices after His Son's death: Hebrews 10:3-22 3 But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year. 4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins. 5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me: 6 In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure. 7 Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God. 8 Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law; 9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second. 10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. 11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins: 12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God; 13 From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool. 14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified. 15 Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before, 16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them; 17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more. 18 Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin. 19 Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus, 20 By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh; 21 And having an high priest over the house of God; 22 Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water. KJV Matthew 27:50-54 50 Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost. 51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent; 52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, 53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many. 54 Now when the centurion, and they that were with him, watching Jesus, saw the earthquake, and those things that were done, they feared greatly, saying, Truly this was the Son of God. KJV Gavri'el (Gabriel) said that this happened in the MIDDLE of the Seven! Finally, Matthew 23 gives us the rest: First, He bawls out the Pharisees and the scribes (transcribers of the Tanakh), who generally consisted of the priests; then He pronounces doom on them: Matt 23:13-39 13 But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in. 14 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation. 15 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves. 16 Woe unto you, ye blind guides, which say, Whosoever shall swear by the temple, it is nothing; but whosoever shall swear by the gold of the temple, he is a debtor! 17 Ye fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gold, or the temple that sanctifieth the gold? 18 And, Whosoever shall swear by the altar, it is nothing; but whosoever sweareth by the gift that is upon it, he is guilty. 19 Ye fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gift, or the altar that sanctifieth the gift? 20 Whoso therefore shall swear by the altar, sweareth by it, and by all things thereon. 21 And whoso shall swear by the temple, sweareth by it, and by him that dwelleth therein. 22 And he that shall swear by heaven, sweareth by the throne of God, and by him that sitteth thereon. 23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone. 24 Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel. 25 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess. 26 Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also. 27 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness. 28 Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity. 29 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous, 30 And say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets. 31 Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets. 32 Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers. 33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell? 34 Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city: 35 That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar. 36 Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation. 37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not! 38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate. 39 For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord. KJV There IS a ray of sunlight at the end; He said that they would no longer see Him UNTIL they shall say, "Baruwkh haba' b'shem YHWH," because this last phrase, "Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the LORD," is a quotation from Psalm 118:26: Psalm 118:22-26 22 The stone which the builders refused is become the head stone of the corner. 23 This is the Lord's doing; it is marvellous in our eyes. 24 This is the day which the Lord hath made; we will rejoice and be glad in it. 25 Save now, I beseech thee, O Lord: O Lord, I beseech thee, send now prosperity. 26 Blessed be he that cometh in the name of the Lord: we have blessed you out of the house of the Lord. KJV It literally translates to "Welcome, Comer in the authority of YHWH." And, it is hard for them to bless Him "out of the house of the LORD" if there IS no "house of the LORD" or a "Temple!" However, this has not happened, YET! So, they are enduring the desolation until the whole amount of what was "determined against them" has been poured out on them. But, it may end soon! The Jews are coming to their Messiah by the thousands, even as we write!

Shalom, Montana Marv. Aw... be honest. You just don't UNDERSTAND what I'm trying to reveal. That's okay; I get it.

Shalom, Tinky. It's because this editor used for the replies does not recognize the type of character being used for the single or double quotation marks. I was meaning to ask Parker1, but if one uses a word processor, such as MS Word, sometimes the processor will substitute beginning and ending quotation marks for the more generic ones produced by the keyboard. One who uses a word processor should take the time to convert such quotation marks back to the more generic form or turn off the automatic substitution that the processor makes. Sometimes, one can just simply port the document into MS's basic Notepad program before transferring it to the reply editor. This will remove all of the formatting and leave only the text. Then, when the text is in the reply editor, one can add back whatever formatting he or she would like to add. Hope this helps!

Shalom, ENOCH2010. While some of the teachings of preterists are good, particularly in how they deal with portions of the Olivet Discourse, please don't "throw the baby out with the bath water." They are most definitely NOT right when it comes to the future events ALSO predicted in Yeshua`s Olivet Discourse! While many of the verses in Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke 21 were directly addressed to His students standing/sitting right there with Him on the Har haZeitiym (the Mount of Olives), there were portions that CHANGED PRONOUNS as His vision projected into the future! To say that these portions were fulfilled in some way in the past is a stretch for the preterists, and they must resort to an allegorical interpretation in order to "see" them fulfilled in the past. A partial preterist point of view is better. I'm not saying that I believe in an established Partial Preterist viewpoint, but I'm saying that if one just reads through the passages normally, especially after harmonizing them in the Greek FIRST before translation into English, one will get the sense of BOTH time periods, not just the past. May the Ruach haQodesh (the Holy Spirit) guide you in your studies.

People don't have to "materialize" things to create idols for themselves. All they have to do is treat anything or anyone with more attention, respect, or fame than they do God, and ... voila! They have an idol! That can be money, the TV, some baseball, football, basketball, hockey, or soccer player, or a movie star, or even a famous politician! (That can even be ONESELF!) If you show respect to ANYONE more than you do to God, you have an idol. The temple details and priestly garments may have REPRESENTED something else, but that does not mean that they are ALLEGORICAL! Simple symbolism is one thing; trying to find symbolism in everything is quite another! And, just because a very real temple or a very real garment stood for something else, it doesn't mean that the temple or garment was less real! There will be quite a bit of symbolism in the New Jerusalem, I'm sure; however, that doesn't make the city any less real! It WILL exist (probably already does), and it's very real dimensions are HUGE! I agree with you about the Greek word "monai" translated "mansions." As the plural of "monee," it does mean a "place of residence" or a "room"; however, that too doesn't make them any less real! I believe that's where Yeshua` is today. He is in the New Jerusalem literally making more rooms for those who are becoming God's children! Finally, I have a bone to pick with you. You said, "They that have my spirit these, saith he, are mine." I've done quite a bit of searching in the Scriptures for this "verse," and have come up empty. It SOUNDS good, but book, chapter, and verse, please. If one is to quote Scripture, it is always best to give a reference so others can check it out for themselves. It's not enough, when it comes to "quoting" Scripture, to get close but not quite right.

The math of a pearl? That depends on what you are looking for. Mathematics is just a way to identify the relationships between physical things. Matthew 13:45 is a parable about the KINGDOM! That's NOT the "church" or people or any such thing. The Kingdom from the sky is being compared to the MERCHANT MAN, not the pearl! Yeshua` IS that merchant or investor. What this verse is saying is that when Yeshua` is reigning in Isra'el beginning in the Millennium, the King will be able to make incredible investments and always come out in the black no matter how much He invests. He could sink His entire wealth into a venture and come out "smelling like roses." Now, if you want to talk about the gates of the New Jerusalem, which are also said to be pearls, those gates are very intriguing. Revelation 21:10-27 10 And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God, 11 Having the glory of God: and her light was like unto a stone most precious, even like a jasper stone, clear as crystal; 12 And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel: 13 On the east three gates; on the north three gates; on the south three gates; and on the west three gates. 14 And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb. 15 And he that talked with me had a golden reed to measure the city, and the gates thereof, and the wall thereof. 16 And the city lieth foursquare, and the length is as large as the breadth: and he measured the city with the reed, twelve thousand furlongs. The length and the breadth and the height of it are equal. 17 And he measured the wall thereof, an hundred and forty and four cubits, according to the measure of a man, that is, of the angel. 18 And the building of the wall of it was of jasper: and the city was pure gold, like unto clear glass. 19 And the foundations of the wall of the city were garnished with all manner of precious stones. The first foundation was jasper; the second, sapphire; the third, a chalcedony; the fourth, an emerald; 20 The fifth, sardonyx; the sixth, sardius; the seventh, chrysolite; the eighth, beryl; the ninth, a topaz; the tenth, a chrysoprasus; the eleventh, a jacinth; the twelfth, an amethyst. 21 And the twelve gates were twelve pearls; every several gate was of one pearl: and the street of the city was pure gold, as it were transparent glass. 22 And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it. 23 And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof. 24 And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it. 25 And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there. 26 And they shall bring the glory and honour of the nations into it. 27 And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life. KJV Why would the city have twelve gates that are never used? They will always stand open! Notice: Verse 21 says that the twelve gates were twelve pearls. It does NOT say that they were LIKE pearls nor does it say that they were made out of pearls! It says that each gate (every several gate) was from ONE PEARL! We get our real pearls today from oysters, although we also have manufactured pearls. However, the God who made the oysters planned how their immune systems would create the pearls. Therefore, if God wants to make huge pearls like their lesser counterparts, God would certainly know how to create them. However, once again, there are twelve of these huge pearls, and they always stand open! What is their purpose? Well, at the risk of sounding too simple, generally speaking pearls are ROUND! How does one open or shut a round gate? One would ROLL the gate away from the doorway! I believe that each of these twelve gates commemorate the RESURRECTION of Yeshua`! Notice, too, that each gate is always attended by a messenger, an "angel!" And, I believe that is why these gates always stand open. The stone is forever rolled away from the tomb! How's that for "math?"

Shalom, John Robinson. In its totality, undoubtedly it will be incomprehensible; however, we can get a glimpse of what it will look like in a very general way since Yochanan's description is very general. Just the same, there are contextual clues that most miss. I choose to focus on those clues, because as tangible and as concrete as you can make it in your mind's eye, the better will be your confidence in its reality. I believe that people need to be able to visualize the city and the New Earth to increase their faith. See, many people do not read Hebrews 11:1 correctly, and this is largely due to the way other versions render the verse. Hebrews 11:1 1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. KJV Many hear this verse and think that faith is about the things we hope for and the things we can't see, but that is not what the verse says! Those are details in the prepositional phrases that describe the faith, but the faith itself is said to be substance and evidence! What "substance?" What "evidence?" Well, the rest of the chapter is the "evidence!" And the Holy Scriptures themselves is the "substance!" We don't have an "I hope so" kind of faith; we have an "I know so" kind of faith! Faith in God is not difficult to have, but it will always tend to elude those who don't know its nature and continue to focus on the "faith" part! If one truly wants to increase one's faith in God, the answer is simple: Get to know God! The more one understands the character of the God who can do the impossible and who truly loves His children, the easier it will be to trust Him, to have faith in Him! It's the same thing with what to expect in our future. The more concrete our understanding of what to expect, the more likely it will be real for us and the better we'll be able to witness to others.

Shalom, Danielzk. This is simply not true. A biblical prophetic year is 360 days , a 360 day year is how Ezekiel counted out the exact day , month and year , May 15 1948 for Israel to be reborn as a nation, but it takes too much time to describe Ezekiels method as the scripture is not written in a simple math equation. In Genesis a 5 month period of time is 150 days , There are various scriptures that tell us events and show what is intended for time calculations and fit perfectly with a 360 day year Given how a person chooses to interpret you can get various result but if you choose the way of biblical prophets and bible scripture events you will find 360 is what is used Consider a statement that it took a week to build a garage you can say it was a 40 hour work week or include overtime or you can multiply 7 days x 24hours =168 hours , and the real answer may be any of those When it comes to biblical prophecies and events it was/is not intended to calculate the exact minutes or hours from sun up to sundown as it will vary through the year , There was no way to determine with great accuracy if a given month in a future year would have 29.5 days or 30 days and there was no simple means to put less than a full day in prophetic calculations. In biblical times the new day, the next day of the week began in the evening around sundown and with cloudy days , rain ,weather patterns it makes it even more difficult to have that level of precision .In our modern times it is easy to make calculations, but in ancient times most people did not read or write While I agree with some things you have stated , to say that a 360 biblical year was never used and you print it in CAPS is simply not true If you do some research you'll understand what I say In forums the problem with providing a weblink to a given site that I have not verified 100% accurate often will bring a person to see if they can find fault with the site, if they can then they want to discredit the site entirely , well can the person trying to discredit say they have never been in error? Point is that here I provide a page with many sites , surely you'll find proof that a 360 day biblical year has been the norm for prophetic matters and some historical matters as they did not have pocket calculators in ancient times https://www.google.c...lient=firefox-a Sorry, but no. You can use all the excuses you'd like, but the fact remains that IF one uses a 360-day year for calculations of several years, one is going to be off by 5.2422 days for EACH year in the calculations! That will add up until there is just a ridiculous amount of time between the time calculated and the time really experienced! I really don't care how many sites you cite! Wrong is WRONG! This is not a matter of "majority rules"; it's a matter more like "gravity!" You can have THOUSANDS who say that "if you step off this cliff, you will float on air," but though you are in the minority, if one steps off that cliff, gravity WILL take over!

Shalom, Gary. Oh, no, brother. There IS a biblical basis for a year that differs from the lunar months. It's the planting cycles! Remember that we are talking about an agricultural society and that Isra'el has THREE "new year's days," so to speak. They have their main New Year's Day, Rosh HaShannah, which literally means "Head of The Year"; they have the New Year's Day for their religious celebrations which start with Pesach, the Passover, commemorating their Exodus from Egypt; and they have the New Year's Day for trees, which is based on the yearly cycle of the growth of the trees in Isra'el. If one were to purely use the lunar cycles, one would quickly find oneself celebrating Christmas in July, so to speak! Leviticus 23:39-43 39 Also in the fifteenth day of the seventh month, when ye have gathered in the fruit of the land, ye shall keep a feast unto the Lord seven days: on the first day shall be a sabbath, and on the eighth day shall be a sabbath. 40 And ye shall take you on the first day the boughs of goodly trees, branches of palm trees, and the boughs of thick trees, and willows of the brook; and ye shall rejoice before the Lord your God seven days. 41 And ye shall keep it a feast unto the Lord seven days in the year. It shall be a statute for ever in your generations: ye shall celebrate it in the seventh month. 42 Ye shall dwell in booths seven days; all that are Israelites born shall dwell in booths: 43 That your generations may know that I made the children of Israel to dwell in booths, when I brought them out of the land of Egypt: I am the Lord your God. KJV The lunar cycle is 29.5 days/"moonth." That's why the length of a month in Jewish time keeping varies between 29 and 30 days (unlike our vascilation between 30 and 31 days). Twelve months of 29.5 days, would be 12 x 29.5 = 354 days. That's eleven and a quarter days too short for the yearly cycle. This is why the Jewish calendar DOES add a leap month, a second Adar, every 7 to 13 cycles. Sometimes, to catch up, they will rarely have to add TWO months! This is usually because their calendar was based upon actual sightings of celestial events, such as the visual spotting of the new moon. If those events are hidden because of overcast skies, then the next day would be considered the first day of the new moon. (And, the new moon was exactly that. It wasn't when the moon was completely dark but was considered to be the first sighting of the sliver of light on the moon.) So, they still had to govern their calendar by the moon AND the sun. I understood that there were texts that spoke of things that related to both seasons and certain months. What I said was that there was no evidence in scripture to support the leap months being added in to control the flow of the calendar to lock it in with the seasons. This seems to me to mean that either something has changed and the lunar/solar relationship to the calendar are now disconnected or that the practice of adjusting the calendar was simply not written down and given to us as knowledge. Considering that even today the relationship of the Sun and Moon is continuing to change, there may very well have been an event or some varied events that have altered this relationship. I don't know and can't say. Gary Well, I can tell you a couple of things: First, the Jewish calendar was formalized by calculations confirmed by sightings instead of just by sightings in the 4th Century by Hillel II. Second, let me start this with a question: Do you know how Easter is calculated each year? (And, it is calculated differently by the Eastern Orthodox Church, btw.) Easter is defined as the first Sunday after the first full moon after the spring equinox. Here's why: The first month of the Jewish calendar, Aviv ("Abib," which corresponds to the Babylonian name currently used, "Nissan"), is calculated by the first new moon after the spring equinox... ALWAYS! Pesach (the Passover) is on the 14th of the month (Lev. 23:5), which will ALWAYS fall on the full moon (at the halfway point between new moons)! Therefore, the first Sunday after the Pesach should be the Sunday used to commemorate the Resurrection of our Lord Yeshua`. This doesn't always work by definition because we don't spend the extra effort to calculate the first new moon after the spring equinox before calculating the first full moon. Thus, sometimes our Easter is a whole month away from Pesach, but most of the time, they will fall within a week of each other. This stems from Moshe's (Moses') training and upbringing in Egypt and the education he received as a son of Pharaoh's daughter. As a grandson of the Pharaoh, he would have been taught in the astronomy and geometry of ancient Egypt, using the stars not only to tell direction, but also to know where the sun was rising and setting in relationship to the stars. Thus, he could calculate when the solstaces and equinoxes occurred by simple shadow clocks, as Egyptians did, and God told him to use that month as the first month of their year. A third thing I just thought of which you should also be aware: There is a tradition that there were TWO Torahs, the written Torah - Torah shebiykhtav, which Christians today call the Pentateuch (Genesis-Exodus-Leviticus-Numbers-Deuteronomy), and the ORAL Torah - Torah sheb`al peh, which was passed down for centuries from mouth to mouth. The oral Torah was an explanation on the written Torah, first given by God Himself. Both Torahs were transmitted to Moshe (Moses) upon Mount Sinai. Therefore, there were some things that were taught to the next generation that were NOT written down in the Bible. This knowledge that Moshe had about calculating the spring equinox was one of them. (Some even surmise that the original Torah written on the two tables of stone contained both, although the substitute after Moshe broke the original tables only contained what is now written, leaving Moshe to remember the rest.) So, the Jewish year was NEVER a 360-day cycle, nor just a 354-day cycle, with months alternating between 29 days and 30 days, because the first month, Aviv, was always reset by the spring equinox! Therefore, when you said, "the practice of adjusting the calendar was simply not written down and given to us as knowledge," you were right. It was not given to US, but it WAS given to those who needed to know it. And, as far as the relationships between the solar cycles and the lunar cycles changing, you are also right, but the changes are so miniscule that it takes thousands of years to make even a minute's difference. They have not changed that much in the last 6000 years, our God has put these orbits in nearly circular paths (from our perspective) that have not decayed significantly.

Shalom, Montana Marv. Read this carefully: Yeshua` did not MAKE a covenant! He didn't NEED to! He "STRENGTHENED" a covenant to many by submitting to be baptised and thus procurring God's blessing on His offer of the Kingdom. When the Father said, "This is my beloved Son in whom I am well pleased," He ENDORSED Yeshua` as HIS "Messiah" - HIS "Choice" - to be KING! The "he" in Dani'el 9:27 DOES refer to the Messiah, the Christ! It is therefore the Davidic Covenant that was strengthened in Yeshua`s offer. Pay no attention to those who make the claim of the it being the New Covenant. They have not researched background or the beginnings of the New Covenant.

Shabbat shalom, A Sabbath peace to you, Miss Agapelove. Hi Miss Agapelove I'm new here and anything about Jesus interrests me allot. I really want to know what you have writen, coz to my understanding you had to delete it, can you please send it to me in some way? My dearest sister in Christ....In answer to your questions,I really felt that God was encouraging & guiding me to write scriptures that were shared by other children of God on the (((Second Coming))) this is why I copied studies from others,however It was brought to my attention that I was guilty of plagiarism (when this thread really started to take a deep interest with many) ! Although,I had displayed the link from which I had copied some of the study in order "NOT" to take the credit? but simply to enlighten others to the writers.... I was deeply upset to be treated with such judgement for the secend time here in Worthy by seperate individuals" whom I do not wish to name", so this is why I do not enter the threads anymore, also I was INSTANTLY banned from chat due to the fact I asked a question about Adam & Eve...>>>??? I do not like the debating that takes place here, I feel that there are too many people who think their knowledge is SUPERIOR in many posts "not all but most"........I was taught by God to be at peace and be gentle in my findings also with each other, no matter where another might be in their journey with Faith....and we must ask questions that lay on our hearts...I should have felt nurtured by other brother's & sister's who may be more mature in their walk with Papa God... ( but sadly this was never the case) ... Originally, the purpose of returning here after some years was to feel the love that others also felt towards God, and to seek out my real brothers and sisters across the globe, but what I have truly discovered actually breaks my heart....I wonder what God will make of the words & debates spoken here? I am so thrilled sister that you & I have now found that deep connection through God in our private writing, and I pray that we will grow that little bit closer to Gods hidden answers & meanings together, as we open our hearts more & more learning as God intended us to & sharing our journey's our love & passion for HIM & in HIM alone........ God knows the hearts of every one of HIS followers, and we must "ALL" remember that "JESUS IS THE LIGHT" I have sadly witnessed here in Worthy, that many think them selves to be slightly more worthy than they truly are, and take the emphasis away from the message that God intended...?????? hence bringing God's children to Gods light, not take them away from it & lead His children to hide..? G....od's R....iches A....t C....hrists E....xspence Sister, you asked me privately to write about what I had discovered in the Second coming, this is why I felt the need to write here exsplaining why I felt uncomfortable displaying anything in this post which God directed me too in the first instance...... But God does not make mistakes and I listen to HIS teachings, God guides me well..there is always a reason for every action & a sheep always hear's the voice of their shepherd.... We should ALL learn & Share together our love & Passion for God & WITTNESS ......Lets keep our flame for God burning bright....Amen Love & Blessings your sister in Christ ..Tina x Ps ..I forgive all those who have upset me in the past on this site ...In Jesus name Amen.....God Bless you & Keep you....x Avoiding plagiarism can be summed up in a simple rule: give credit where credit is due. I don't know who so accused you; I'm not privy to the details. All I know is that you can still share information you have learned and come to embrace as your own, even if it's not your original work. We still live in free countries, after all (so far, that is)! However, when you share something that someone else said first, just simply say so! Even if you can't remember the author, just say that, too! As a would-be author, I know the importance of sharing one's work with others as well as the heartache of seeing one's work already in print. Sometimes that happens naturally. God did give us all brains, after all; so, it only stands to reason that sometimes someone else will beat us to the punch. But, I also know how awful it feels to have someone STEAL your hard work and publish it as his/her own. On the other hand, there's no better advertising for your work than word-of-mouth advertising. If I had published something, it would be a tribute for someone else to quote it as long as he/she didn't quote too much of it and ruin my chances for income on the work I've done. It would be like waiting for a favorite detective film to come out and have someone spoil the ending for you, or wanting to watch a particular ball game you've recorded only to have someone tell you the final score before watching it. If one publishes too much of your work and reveals the genius of your hard work to others, what would be the incentive for others to purchase your work? On the other hand, if you've enjoyed someone else's work and you share portions you've enjoyed with others, that tantalizes those persons to buy the work for themselves! That's a VERY good thing! But, don't let others intimidate you and brow-beat you into submission about something you're trying to share. Some people on forums such as these use unkind, unChristlike tactics to "win" their arguments. Just be sure to say when something is not your original work. That way, they have no ammo in the guns they are waving about. They're "all bark and no bite." You're loved here, too, and we'll have your back in an argument!

Shabbat shalom, Gary. Oh, no, brother. There IS a biblical basis for a year that differs from the lunar months. It's the planting cycles! Remember that we are talking about an agricultural society and that Isra'el has THREE "new year's days," so to speak. They have their main New Year's Day, Rosh HaShannah, which literally means "Head of The Year"; they have the New Year's Day for their religious celebrations which start with Pesach, the Passover, commemorating their Exodus from Egypt; and they have the New Year's Day for trees, which is based on the yearly cycle of the growth of the trees in Isra'el. If one were to purely use the lunar cycles, one would quickly find oneself celebrating Christmas in July, so to speak! Leviticus 23:39-43 39 Also in the fifteenth day of the seventh month, when ye have gathered in the fruit of the land, ye shall keep a feast unto the Lord seven days: on the first day shall be a sabbath, and on the eighth day shall be a sabbath. 40 And ye shall take you on the first day the boughs of goodly trees, branches of palm trees, and the boughs of thick trees, and willows of the brook; and ye shall rejoice before the Lord your God seven days. 41 And ye shall keep it a feast unto the Lord seven days in the year. It shall be a statute for ever in your generations: ye shall celebrate it in the seventh month. 42 Ye shall dwell in booths seven days; all that are Israelites born shall dwell in booths: 43 That your generations may know that I made the children of Israel to dwell in booths, when I brought them out of the land of Egypt: I am the Lord your God. KJV The lunar cycle is 29.5 days/"moonth." That's why the length of a month in Jewish time keeping varies between 29 and 30 days (unlike our vascilation between 30 and 31 days). Twelve months of 29.5 days, would be 12 x 29.5 = 354 days. That's eleven and a quarter days too short for the yearly cycle. This is why the Jewish calendar DOES add a leap month, a second Adar, every 7 to 13 cycles. Sometimes, to catch up, they will rarely have to add TWO months! This is usually because their calendar was based upon actual sightings of celestial events, such as the visual spotting of the new moon. If those events are hidden because of overcast skies, then the next day would be considered the first day of the new moon. (And, the new moon was exactly that. It wasn't when the moon was completely dark but was considered to be the first sighting of the sliver of light on the moon.) So, they still had to govern their calendar by the moon AND the sun.

Shalom, Montana Marv, and shabbat shalom, as Friday sundown approaches. Convenient how you skip vs. 26. This is why it is dangerous to condense a text or summarize points. Have you considered why the 69 sevens are broken down into two segments of 7 sevens and 62 sevens? What happened at the 7 sevens point? I also reject your choice to use the NIV for these verses. It is just WRONG to say "on a wing of the temple he will set up an abomination that causes desolation!" THOSE WORDS ARE NOT THERE IN HEBREW!!! Yes, the 70 sevens are all mentioned as whole sevens UNTIL the 70th seven! Then, just as you quoted, "In the middle of the seven (half way into the one seven), he will put an end to sacrifice and offering." This DOES split and divide the last seven into two separate parts! It is also YESHUA`S DOING! There isn't a "gap" between the 69th and the 70th seven, as many want to believe; YESHUA` HIMSELF put the gap between the first 69.5 sevens and the last 0.5 seven when he left them DESOLATE!!! However, Yeshua` did not CAUSE the gap; the JEWS did when they rejected Him as God's Messiah, God's Anointed, to be King! That first half of the 70th seven was the 3.5 years of Yeshua`s "earthly ministry," when He offered the Kingdom to the Jews, His own tribe! If you want to keep the whole seven together as a unit, you would have to accept the Preterist point of view, but I won't. He won't try again until they welcome Him back as God's Anointed (Matthew 23:37-39; Psalm 118:22-26). During THOSE 3.5 years, Yeshua` will not only offer the Kingdom again to the Jews, but He will also fight for Isra'el as they are attacked by bullying, neighboring countries, most likely including Egypt and Iran. Roy It was convenient; for I was looking only at the verses which contained sevens (70 sevens are decreeded) or multiples of sevens. V. 26 was a confirmaion of v 25. All the verses are whole weeks. Therefore the ONE SEVEN in verse 27 is seven contineous years. No split, No seperation. In Football (American), the 50 yard line is midway; it is halfway from the beginning and halfway from the end. It is the midpoint between two points. Split the turf along the 50 yard line and seperated the two, one no longer has a complete playing field. The same with the one seven, if split in two and seperated by time, it no longer becomes a full or complete One Seven. Then Daniels 70 - Sevens are no longer 70, but 69 sevens and two half sevens. Daniels's 70 - Sevens do not support what you trying to convence us of. You have no proof that Jesus Christ's ministry lasted exactly 1,260 days or 3 and 1/2 years. No Biblical evidence to support your theory. I would like to know what half your age is at any particular time in your life? And then was that time split and divided. So either this last One Seven is past and fulfilled, Or this last One Seven is still in our future. BTW, Dan 9:26 states that after the 62 Sevens the Anointed One will be cut off (or killed). It is a marker stating when the end of the 62 Sevens is. No mention is given when the onset of the final One Seven is. Only that it starts with the beginning of a seven year covenant, treaty with many. Christ made no such seven year covenant or treaty. If already complete, then Israel has been restored to glory and is living in total peace. (Which is not the Case). In Christ Montana Marv Actually, there IS biblical evidence in what I believe. First, Yeshua`s earthly "ministry" (His offer of the Kingdom) lasted for four Pesach seasons, four Passovers, when everyone was to go to Jerusalem in the Spring, the last one - of course - being the time of his death. He began His offer of the Kingdom around His birthday, which is around the time of Sukkot, the Feast of Tabernacles or Booths. This is always in the autumn, not on December 25th. This, too, is biblical because one can calculate six months from the birth of Yochanan the Immerser, who was conceived six months earlier than Yeshua` was, shortly after Z'kharyahu (Zechariah or Zacharias) was in the Temple for his turn at the priestly office. He was of the Division of Aviyahu (Abijah or Abia), the 8th division, which would have served in the temple in the first week of the month Sivan. He would also have had to be there in the second week of Sivan for Shavu'ot or Pentecost. Thus, Yochanan would have been conceived in the third week of Sivan. Elisheva (Elizabeth) hid herself for five months and then Miryam (Mary) was approached by Gavri'el (Gabriel) in her sixth month and was impregnated by the Ruach haQodesh (the Holy Spirit) at that time because when she arrives to visit with Elisheva, Yochanan kicked in her uterus and Elisheva prophesied! (1 Chronicles 24:7-18; Luke 1:5-45) 1 Chronicles 24:1-19 1 The divisions of the descendants of Aharon were as follows: The sons of Aharon: Nadav, Avihu, El‘azar and Itamar. 2 But Nadav and Avihu died before their father and had no children; therefore El‘azar and Itamar functioned as the cohanim. 3 David, together with Tzadok from the descendants of El‘azar, and Achimelekh from the descendants of Itamar, arranged them in divisions for service. 4 There were more men who were chiefs found among the descendants of El‘azar than among the descendants of Itamar; therefore there were sixteen divisions of the descendants of El‘azar, headed by clan leaders, and eight divisions of the descendants of Itamar, according to their clans. 5 They were assigned [periods of service] by lot, the one group equally with the other, since both the descendants of El‘azar and the descendants of Itamar had officers of the sanctuary and officers of God. 6 Sh’ma‘yah the son of N’tan’el the secretary, one of the L’vi’im, recorded them in the presence of the king, the officers, Tzadok the cohen, Achimelekh the son of Evyatar, and the clan leaders of the cohanim and of the L’vi’im — with two clan divisions taken from El‘azar for each one from Itamar. 7 The first lot drawn was for Y’hoyariv, the second for Y’da‘yah, 8 the third for Harim, the fourth for S‘orim, 9 the fifth for Malkiyah, the sixth for Miyamin, 10 the seventh for Hakotz, the eighth for Aviyah, 11 the ninth for Yeshua, the tenth for Sh’khanyahu, 12 the eleventh for Elyashiv, the twelfth for Yakim, 13 the thirteenth for Hupah, the fourteenth for Yeshev’av, 14 the fifteenth for Bilgah, the sixteenth for Immer, 15 the seventeenth for Hezir, the eighteenth for HaPitzetz, 16 the nineteenth for P’tachyah, the twentieth for Yechezk’el, 17 the twenty-first for Yakhin, the twenty-second for Gamul, 18 the twenty-third for D’layahu, and the twenty-fourth for Ma‘azyahu. 19 These are the divisions and the sequence in which they served in the house of Adonai, in accordance with the rule they were given through Aharon their ancestor, as Adonai the God of Isra’el had ordered him. CJB Luke 1:5-45 5 In the days of Herod, King of Y’hudah, there was a cohen named Z’kharyah who belonged to the Aviyah division. His wife was a descendant of Aharon, and her name was Elisheva. 6 Both of them were righteous before God, observing all the mitzvot and ordinances of Adonai blamelessly. 7 But they had no children, because Elisheva was barren; and they were both well along in years. 8 One time, when Z’kharyah was fulfilling his duties as cohen during his division’s period of service before God, 9 he was chosen by lot (according to the custom among the cohanim) to enter the Temple and burn incense. 10 All the people were outside, praying, at the time of the incense burning, 11 when there appeared to him an angel of Adonai standing to the right of the incense altar. 12 Z’kharyah was startled and terrified at the sight. 13 But the angel said to him, “Don’t be afraid, Z’kharyah; because your prayer has been heard. Your wife Elisheva will bear you a son, and you are to name him Yochanan. 14 He will be a joy and a delight to you, and many people will rejoice when he is born, 15 for he will be great in the sight of Adonai. He is never to drink wine or other liquor, and he will be filled with the Ruach HaKodesh even from his mother’s womb. 16 He will turn many of the people of Isra’el to Adonai their God. 17 He will go out ahead of Adonai in the spirit and power of Eliyahu to turn the hearts of fathers to their children and the disobedient to the wisdom of the righteous, to make ready for Adonai a people prepared.” 18 Z’kharyah said to the angel, “How can I be sure of this? For I am an old man; my wife too is well on in years.” 19 “I am Gavri’el,” the angel answered him, “and I stand in the presence of God. I was sent to speak to you, to give you this good news. 20 Now, because you didn’t believe what I said, which will be fulfilled when the time comes, you will be silent, unable to speak until the day these things take place.” 21 Meanwhile, the people were waiting for Z’kharyah; they were surprised at his taking so long in the Temple. 22 But when he came out unable to talk to them, they realized that he had seen a vision in the Temple; speechless, he communicated to them with signs. 23 When the period of his Temple service was over, he returned home. 24 Following this, Elisheva his wife conceived, and she remained five months in seclusion, saying, 25 “Adonai has done this for me; he has shown me favor at this time, so as to remove my public disgrace.” 26 In the sixth month, the angel Gavri’el was sent by God to a city in the Galil called Natzeret, 27 to a virgin engaged to a man named Yosef, of the house of David; the virgin’s name was Miryam. 28 Approaching her, the angel said, “Shalom, favored lady! Adonai is with you!” 29 She was deeply troubled by his words and wondered what kind of greeting this might be. 30 The angel said to her, “Don’t be afraid, Miryam, for you have found favor with God. 31 Look! You will become pregnant, you will give birth to a son, and you are to name him Yeshua. 32 He will be great, he will be called Son of Ha‘Elyon. Adonai, God, will give him the throne of his forefather David; 33 and he will rule the House of Ya‘akov forever — there will be no end to his Kingdom.” 34 “How can this be,” asked Miryam of the angel, “since I am a virgin?” 35 The angel answered her, “The Ruach HaKodesh will come over you, the power of Ha‘Elyon will cover you. Therefore the holy child born to you will be called the Son of God. 36 “You have a relative, Elisheva, who is an old woman; and everyone says she is barren. But she has conceived a son and is six months pregnant! 37 For with God, nothing is impossible.” 38 Miryam said, “I am the servant of Adonai; may it happen to me as you have said.” Then the angel left her. 39 Without delay, Miryam set out and hurried to the town in the hill country of Y’hudah 40 where Z’kharyah lived, entered his house and greeted Elisheva. 41 When Elisheva heard Miryam’s greeting, the baby in her womb stirred. Elisheva was filled with the Ruach HaKodesh 42 and spoke up in a loud voice, “How blessed are you among women! And how blessed is the child in your womb! 43 “But who am I, that the mother of my Lord should come to me? 44 For as soon as the sound of your greeting reached my ears, the baby in my womb leaped for joy! 45 Indeed you are blessed, because you have trusted that the promise Adonai has made to you will be fulfilled.” CJB (One can find this viewpoint at http://www.luziusschneider.com/Papers/JesusDateOfBirth.htm.) This person believes that Yeshua` was born on or near 7 Tishri, which would have been on or around September 29, durring Sukkot! Also, I find it telling that everyone of the surrounding nations during the Millennium will be required to come to Sukkot, the Feast of Tabernacles: Zechariah 14:16-21 16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles. 17 And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain. 18 And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the Lord will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles. 19 This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles. 20 In that day shall there be upon the bells of the horses, HOLINESS UNTO THE Lord; and the pots in the Lord's house shall be like the bowl's before the altar. 21 Yea, every pot in Jerusalem and in Judah shall be holiness unto the Lord of hosts: and all they that sacrifice shall come and take of them, and seethe therein: and in that day there shall be no more the Canaanite in the house of the Lord of hosts. KJV (If one is worried about Christmas, don't be. If one will count backward 280 days, the normal gestation period of a human being, one will find that Yeshua` was most likely CONCEIVED on Christmas!) So, the half year came first in Yeshua`s ministry, from His birthday to the first Pesach. Then, there were three more Pesach seasons, and He was killed as haKeves Pesach, the Paschal Lamb, the Lamb for the Passover Seder meal. Now, you said,... Sorry, but that is an assumption on your part. It doesn't say that the cutting off of the Messiah "marks the end of the 62 Sevens"; it says that the Messiah is cut off AFTER the 62 Sevens! Three and a half years later is still "AFTER the 62 Sevens!" You've gotta get picky about this, particularly in the Hebrew of the verses if you're going to understand these verses. Then, you said,... Actually, the confirmation of the Davidic Covenant by ADONAI, the LORD God Himself, Yeshua`s Father is what started the beginning of the "seven-year Covenant" when the Father said, "This is my beloved Son in whom I am well pleased," at His baptism, although it was truly intended to be an ETERNAL, EVERLASTING Covenant! It is only in THIS prophecy that we learn it would actually be limited to seven years. HOWEVER, it was YESHUA` HIMSELF who split the Seven in two! He left them DESOLATE in Matthew 23:38, just as predicted in Dani'el 9:27! This split the Seven, and there is absolutely NO evidence anywhere else in Scripture to put a gap between the 69th Seven and the 70th Seven! ONLY here, when Yeshua` pronounces their household "DESOLATE," do we have the makings of a legitimate gap! HE split the Seven! Think of it as the lives of Moshe (Moses) and Eliyahu (Elijah) or perhaps Chanokh (Enoch), whoever are the two witnesses of Revelation 11:3; their lives were split in the same way! They lived most of their time and then DISAPPEARED only to show up again in the future to finish their lives with 42 more months, because "...it is appointed unto men ONCE to die, but after this the judgment" (Hebrews 9:27). I agree with you that the final Seven is not already complete. However, I believe that there is ample support for the belief that the Seven was split in two, by the fact that Yeshua` comes TWICE. He came the first time as the Lamb that was Slain; He will come the second time as the Lion of the Tribe of Y'hudah! The 70th Seven must fulfill the rest of the purposes for the 70 Sevens, but part of those purposes had to be fulfilled by the Messiah during His first coming as the Sacrifice for His people. But, the goal of the 70 Sevens is to make the Messiah the KING! His first 3.5 years fulfilled the first half of the Seven, and when He comes, the next 3.5 years of His ministry will complete the Seven as His role of King of the Jews and prepare a people for His Kingdom over Isra'el which begins in the Millennium!

Shalom, OneLight (Alan). Shalom Brother, I did not take anything personal. The truth is, neither of us will know which is true until we see the New Jerusalem. Both of us could be wrong. God Bless, Alan Thanks for that. Yes, you're probably right, and with as little information as we've been given, we both probably are wrong! LOL!

Shalom, Bold Believer. Let me try to say this in the RIGHT way, for a change: Yes, I too was brought up to believe that pyramids were part of the occult; so I can understand your reluctance. Then, I started to study mathematics in school with a passion and I ran into great minds like those of Sir Isaac Newton, Gottfried Wilhelm Leibnitz, Carl Friedrich Gauss, and Georg Friedrich Riemann, and came to realize that Mathematics is one of the great creations of God Almighty! HaSatan may arrest some of the mathematics to his own ends, but the pyramid is a basic shape that GOD made, not the devil! In truth, there is nothing either good or bad in the shape itself; it is how that shape is used by the one who uses it. So, if a designer and builder such as Chanokh (Enoch, who walked with God) takes the shape for one of his architectures (the Great Pyramid of Giza is attributed to him by Arabian literature), or a occultist and astrologer takes the shape and abuses (abnormally uses) the shape to his own ends, the good or bad found there is in the user, not in the shape! There is nothing inheritantly evil in the shape of a pyramid. In fact, the tetrahedron, a three sided pyramid, is the basic shape of the methane (CH4) and carbon tetrachloride (CCl4) molecules. The octahedron, an eight sided shape consisting of two four-sided pyramids stuck together at their bases, is the basic shape of the sulfur hexafluoride (SF6) molecule. These molecules are common in God's Nature. From the biblical perspective, textually speaking the Bible is made up of sixty-six books written by several authors (how many only God knows for sure) who were all inspired by the one Holy Spirit of God. These authors all had certain relationships to one another. First, they all - being Isra'elites - were familar with the first five books of the Bible, which the Jews know as the Torah and Christians often call the Pentateuch. The whole Tanakh (an acronym, "T-N-K," that stands for "Torah - Navi'iym - Ketuviym," meaning "Law or rather Instruction - Prophets - Writings"), however, was developed one book at a time. Joshua and Judges and Ruth were written as history after the Exodus (which was covered by Moses in the Torah) and before the times of the kings (which began in Sh'mu'el's books). The four books of Sh'mu'el (Samuel), now divided into 1 Samuel, 2 Samuel, 1 Kings and 2 Kings, were written over time as a history. Although it was begun by Sh'mu'el, it ended with some other chronologer writing its end. The same is probably true for the Chronicles of the Kings in its two volumes. The Psalms were primarily written by David but by others as well. It's a song book that was compiled even after the Captivity to Babylon and Persia returned. The books of Proverbs and Ecclesiastes are attributed to the wisdom of Shlomo or Solomon. Dani'el and Esther in particular are books written during the years of the Captivity in Babylon and Persia. Ezra and Nehemiah are books written at the end of the Captivity as the Jews were returning to the Land of Isra'el. And, the prophets were given their prophecies at various times to the Isra'elites and Jews to give God's judgments, instructions, encouragement and lessons to learn for different situations. We don't really know where to place the book of Job, which is about a man named "Iyov" ("Job") who some think was a contemporary with Avraham while others believe him to be later in history. After the "400 silent years," the history picks up again in the four viewpoints of the life of the Messiah, Yeshua` the Son of David, the Son of God, called the "Gospels" and the book of the Acts of the Apostles. Then, we have a collection of letters from the Apostle Paul to various churches, the letter to the Hebrews from whom we don't know, the letters from the Apostles Peter, James and Jude, and then the singular prophetic book, the Revealing of the Master Yeshua` the Messiah (the Revelation of the Lord Jesus Christ). When looking at this Book of Books, we must be careful what we can legitimately link together between books. There are various relationships in play: First, they are ALL inspired by the Ruach haQodesh, but literarily speaking, some books, even if they contain similar phrases, do not go together! For instance, sometimes Jeremiah 4:23 is thought to go together with Genesis 1:2 because both verses use the phrase "without form and void" in the KJV. This has led to certain people making the claim that Jeremiah 4 is about the Creation! However, the truth is that this is simply an unfortunate case of poor word choices in translation. When one reads this verse in context, its meaning becomes clear. Here's the same passage in a different version, the Complete Jewish Bible: Jeremiah 4:1-26 4:1 “Isra’el, if you will return,” says Adonai, “yes, return to me; and if you will banish your abominations from my presence without wandering astray again; 2 and if you will swear, ‘As Adonai lives,’ in truth, justice and righteousness; then the nations will bless themselves by him, and in him will they glory.” 3 For here is what Adonai says to the people of Y’hudah and Yerushalayim: “Break up your ground that hasn’t been plowed, and do not sow among thorns.” 4 “People of Y’hudah and inhabitants of Yerushalayim, circumcise yourselves for Adonai, remove the foreskins of your heart! Otherwise my fury will lash out like fire, burning so hot that no one can quench it, because of how evil your actions are. 5 “Announce in Y’hudah, proclaim in Yerushalayim; say: ‘Blow the shofar in the land!’ Shout the message aloud: ‘Assemble! Let us go to the fortified cities!’ 6 Set up a signal toward Tziyon, head for cover without delay. For I will bring disaster from the north, yes, dire destruction. 7 A lion has risen from his lair, a destroyer of nations has set out, left his own place to ruin your land, to demolish and depopulate your cities.” 8 So wrap yourselves in sackcloth, lament and wail, for Adonai’s fierce anger has not turned away from us. 9 “When that day comes,” says Adonai, “the king’s heart will fail him, likewise the princes’; the cohanim will be appalled and the prophets stupefied.” 10 Then I said, “Oh, Adonai Elohim! Surely you have sadly deceived this people and Yerushalayim by saying, ‘You will have peace,’ when the sword is at our very throats!” 11 “At that time it will be said of this people and of Yerushalayim: ‘A scorching wind from the desert heights is sweeping down on my people. ’It is not coming to winnow or cleanse; 12 this wind of mine is too strong for that. Now I will pass sentence on them.” 13 Here he comes, like the clouds, his chariots like the whirlwind, his horses faster than eagles! Woe to us, we are doomed! 14 Wash the evil from your heart, Yerushalayim, so that you can be saved. How long will you harbor within yourselves your evil thoughts? 15 For a voice is announcing the news from Dan, proclaiming disaster from the hills of Efrayim: 16 “Report it to the nations, proclaim about Yerushalayim: ‘[Enemies] are coming from a distant country, watching and shouting their war cry against the cities of Y’hudah.’ 17 Like guards in a field they surround her, because she has rebelled against me,” says Adonai. 18 “Your own ways and your actions have brought these things on yourselves. This is your wickedness, so bitter! It has reached your very heart.” 19 My guts! My guts! I’m writhing in pain! My heart! It beats wildly — I can’t stay still! — because I have heard the shofar sound; it’s the call to war. 20 The news is disaster after disaster! All the land is ruined! My tents are suddenly destroyed, my tent curtains in an instant. 21 How long must I see that signal and hear the shofar sound? 22 “It is because my people are foolish — they do not know me; they are stupid children, without understanding, wise when doing evil; but they don’t know how to do good.” 23 I looked at the land — it was unformed and void — and at the sky — it had no light. 24 I looked at the mountains, and they shook — all the hills moved back and forth. 25 I looked, and there was no human being; all the birds in the air had fled. 26 I looked, and the fertile fields were a desert, all the land’s cities were razed to the ground at the presence of Adonai, before his burning anger. CJB The key words are "Dan" and "Efrayim" in verse 15. This passage is not about the Creation; it is about the invasion and destruction of Northern Isra'el by the Assyrians! Yirmeyahu (Jeremiah) also warns Y'hudah and Yerushalayim, Judah and Jerusalem, where the Southern Kingdom of Judah lived, to change THEIR attitudes and repent so they wouldn't fall prey to the same mischief in verses 4 through 10! Then Yirmeyahu prophesied of the impending doom of the Southern Kingdom, as well! So, verse 23 is about the destruction of the Land of Isra'el circa 689 B.C. and the subsequent tribute that the Southern Kingdom paid to the king of Assyria, Sennacherib. So, when you equate the description of the New Jerusalem to the believers as a "city set on a hill" found in Matthew's Gospel at Matthew 5:14, you are defying two natural barriers. First, it is a different book by a different human author. We don't even know if it was written and in circulation yet when Revelation was being written. So, literarily speaking, why should they be linked in thought at all? Two different books, two different authors, unrelated subject matter. The only way one could even assume that such a connection was valid would be by one's own prejudice! Second, there is a time barrier in that Matthew 5 was DURING the Messiah's offer of the Kingdom to the Jews, and Revelation was AFTER the Messiah's rejection, death, burial and resurrection when the Messiah's offer of the Kingdom was rescinded and postponed until His Second Coming! An analogy between these two is forced and is purely from the allegorical intepretation of Scripture and not from any legitimate connection between the two ... IMO. The current elevation of the Old City of Yerushalayim is 2,490 feet. That's 150 feet less than 1/2 a mile (2,640 feet). How does that compare to a city that is said to be 1,500 miles high? I don't believe John's talking about an actual brick and mortar city. God's not bound by time Roy, you know that. So when Jesus describes Believers as a city set on a hill, and then the writer of Hebrews speaks of the New Jerusalem as 'our mother which is above' (as does Paul in Galatians), I'm led to believe John is simply referring to the Resurrected Church, not a city. Regarding Enoch: wasn't there more than one Enoch in Scripture? Cain had a son named Enoch, and so did Jared, and as near as I can tell from the text, they are two different men. I could see Cain's son making a pyramidic structure, but not Jared's, especially since it appears that Jared's son Enoch was more devoted to the study of righteousness than things down here. No, not "actual brick and mortar city," but an "actual jasper and gold city." Right, God's not bound by time, but we are, and Yochanan called the city the "bride," not the people within it! He called it that twice, once as a metaphor and the other time as a simile. It's not a mystery; the city was just "all decked out" like a new bride, beautiful in its pristine condition! Well, the story goes that Adam predicted two catastrophes, one a deluge of water and the other a deluge of fire. So, Chanokh built two structures one of red brick with white writing and the other of white stone with red writing to preserve the knowledge of the antediluvian world through the flood. Both structures were to withstand the flood, but only the one still extant, the one of white stone, would survive the fire. This is supposed to be the Great Pyramid. And, although the pyramid survived, the white limestone has been removed, ravaged by a greedy sheik. Furthermore, the name of Qayin's son Chanokh gave Qayin the idea for the name of the first city. Qayin and his sister/wife left the "(sur)face of the earth," and lived in a place called "Nowd" which means "wandering." I believe that he moved into an underground cavern and built his city there, raising his family there, out of sight of those who might be able to find him and ignore the mark that God put upon him. If so, he and his progeny lived within this cavern system until Lamekh killed another in self defence. We are told that one of his children, Yaval, was the first to live in tents. I believe, therefore, that it was in his lifetime that men began to emerge from underground Chanokh. These were the fathers of the "daughters of men" that the "sons of God," a term of prejudice for the high leaders of the progeny of Shet, since they were allowed to live on the surface of the earth "within God's sight." Thus, since it was Adam who made the prophecy (who lived for 950 years and who saw His great ... great grandson Chanokh in person before his death, it was the "seventh from Adam" who built the pyramid. Besides, the Arabic legend names him as the seventh from Adam. Even if you think somehow that the pyramid is a bad thing (which it's not), it shouldn't surprise you because after Chanokh was taken by God, only eight souls survived the Flood, meaning the rest of civilization was deplorable.

Shalom, Bold Believer. Let me try to say this in the RIGHT way, for a change: Yes, I too was brought up to believe that pyramids were part of the occult; so I can understand your reluctance. Then, I started to study mathematics in school with a passion and I ran into great minds like those of Sir Isaac Newton, Gottfried Wilhelm Leibnitz, Carl Friedrich Gauss, and Georg Friedrich Riemann, and came to realize that Mathematics is one of the great creations of God Almighty! HaSatan may arrest some of the mathematics to his own ends, but the pyramid is a basic shape that GOD made, not the devil! In truth, there is nothing either good or bad in the shape itself; it is how that shape is used by the one who uses it. So, if a designer and builder such as Chanokh (Enoch, who walked with God) takes the shape for one of his architectures (the Great Pyramid of Giza is attributed to him by Arabian literature), or a occultist and astrologer takes the shape and abuses (abnormally uses) the shape to his own ends, the good or bad found there is in the user, not in the shape! There is nothing inheritantly evil in the shape of a pyramid. In fact, the tetrahedron, a three sided pyramid, is the basic shape of the methane (CH4) and carbon tetrachloride (CCl4) molecules. The octahedron, an eight sided shape consisting of two four-sided pyramids stuck together at their bases, is the basic shape of the sulfur hexafluoride (SF6) molecule. These molecules are common in God's Nature. From the biblical perspective, textually speaking the Bible is made up of sixty-six books written by several authors (how many only God knows for sure) who were all inspired by the one Holy Spirit of God. These authors all had certain relationships to one another. First, they all - being Isra'elites - were familar with the first five books of the Bible, which the Jews know as the Torah and Christians often call the Pentateuch. The whole Tanakh (an acronym, "T-N-K," that stands for "Torah - Navi'iym - Ketuviym," meaning "Law or rather Instruction - Prophets - Writings"), however, was developed one book at a time. Joshua and Judges and Ruth were written as history after the Exodus (which was covered by Moses in the Torah) and before the times of the kings (which began in Sh'mu'el's books). The four books of Sh'mu'el (Samuel), now divided into 1 Samuel, 2 Samuel, 1 Kings and 2 Kings, were written over time as a history. Although it was begun by Sh'mu'el, it ended with some other chronologer writing its end. The same is probably true for the Chronicles of the Kings in its two volumes. The Psalms were primarily written by David but by others as well. It's a song book that was compiled even after the Captivity to Babylon and Persia returned. The books of Proverbs and Ecclesiastes are attributed to the wisdom of Shlomo or Solomon. Dani'el and Esther in particular are books written during the years of the Captivity in Babylon and Persia. Ezra and Nehemiah are books written at the end of the Captivity as the Jews were returning to the Land of Isra'el. And, the prophets were given their prophecies at various times to the Isra'elites and Jews to give God's judgments, instructions, encouragement and lessons to learn for different situations. We don't really know where to place the book of Job, which is about a man named "Iyov" ("Job") who some think was a contemporary with Avraham while others believe him to be later in history. After the "400 silent years," the history picks up again in the four viewpoints of the life of the Messiah, Yeshua` the Son of David, the Son of God, called the "Gospels" and the book of the Acts of the Apostles. Then, we have a collection of letters from the Apostle Paul to various churches, the letter to the Hebrews from whom we don't know, the letters from the Apostles Peter, James and Jude, and then the singular prophetic book, the Revealing of the Master Yeshua` the Messiah (the Revelation of the Lord Jesus Christ). When looking at this Book of Books, we must be careful what we can legitimately link together between books. There are various relationships in play: First, they are ALL inspired by the Ruach haQodesh, but literarily speaking, some books, even if they contain similar phrases, do not go together! For instance, sometimes Jeremiah 4:23 is thought to go together with Genesis 1:2 because both verses use the phrase "without form and void" in the KJV. This has led to certain people making the claim that Jeremiah 4 is about the Creation! However, the truth is that this is simply an unfortunate case of poor word choices in translation. When one reads this verse in context, its meaning becomes clear. Here's the same passage in a different version, the Complete Jewish Bible: Jeremiah 4:1-26 4:1 “Isra’el, if you will return,” says Adonai, “yes, return to me; and if you will banish your abominations from my presence without wandering astray again; 2 and if you will swear, ‘As Adonai lives,’ in truth, justice and righteousness; then the nations will bless themselves by him, and in him will they glory.” 3 For here is what Adonai says to the people of Y’hudah and Yerushalayim: “Break up your ground that hasn’t been plowed, and do not sow among thorns.” 4 “People of Y’hudah and inhabitants of Yerushalayim, circumcise yourselves for Adonai, remove the foreskins of your heart! Otherwise my fury will lash out like fire, burning so hot that no one can quench it, because of how evil your actions are. 5 “Announce in Y’hudah, proclaim in Yerushalayim; say: ‘Blow the shofar in the land!’ Shout the message aloud: ‘Assemble! Let us go to the fortified cities!’ 6 Set up a signal toward Tziyon, head for cover without delay. For I will bring disaster from the north, yes, dire destruction. 7 A lion has risen from his lair, a destroyer of nations has set out, left his own place to ruin your land, to demolish and depopulate your cities.” 8 So wrap yourselves in sackcloth, lament and wail, for Adonai’s fierce anger has not turned away from us. 9 “When that day comes,” says Adonai, “the king’s heart will fail him, likewise the princes’; the cohanim will be appalled and the prophets stupefied.” 10 Then I said, “Oh, Adonai Elohim! Surely you have sadly deceived this people and Yerushalayim by saying, ‘You will have peace,’ when the sword is at our very throats!” 11 “At that time it will be said of this people and of Yerushalayim: ‘A scorching wind from the desert heights is sweeping down on my people. ’It is not coming to winnow or cleanse; 12 this wind of mine is too strong for that. Now I will pass sentence on them.” 13 Here he comes, like the clouds, his chariots like the whirlwind, his horses faster than eagles! Woe to us, we are doomed! 14 Wash the evil from your heart, Yerushalayim, so that you can be saved. How long will you harbor within yourselves your evil thoughts? 15 For a voice is announcing the news from Dan, proclaiming disaster from the hills of Efrayim: 16 “Report it to the nations, proclaim about Yerushalayim: ‘[Enemies] are coming from a distant country, watching and shouting their war cry against the cities of Y’hudah.’ 17 Like guards in a field they surround her, because she has rebelled against me,” says Adonai. 18 “Your own ways and your actions have brought these things on yourselves. This is your wickedness, so bitter! It has reached your very heart.” 19 My guts! My guts! I’m writhing in pain! My heart! It beats wildly — I can’t stay still! — because I have heard the shofar sound; it’s the call to war. 20 The news is disaster after disaster! All the land is ruined! My tents are suddenly destroyed, my tent curtains in an instant. 21 How long must I see that signal and hear the shofar sound? 22 “It is because my people are foolish — they do not know me; they are stupid children, without understanding, wise when doing evil; but they don’t know how to do good.” 23 I looked at the land — it was unformed and void — and at the sky — it had no light. 24 I looked at the mountains, and they shook — all the hills moved back and forth. 25 I looked, and there was no human being; all the birds in the air had fled. 26 I looked, and the fertile fields were a desert, all the land’s cities were razed to the ground at the presence of Adonai, before his burning anger. CJB The key words are "Dan" and "Efrayim" in verse 15. This passage is not about the Creation; it is about the invasion and destruction of Northern Isra'el by the Assyrians! Yirmeyahu (Jeremiah) also warns Y'hudah and Yerushalayim, Judah and Jerusalem, where the Southern Kingdom of Judah lived, to change THEIR attitudes and repent so they wouldn't fall prey to the same mischief in verses 4 through 10! Then Yirmeyahu prophesied of the impending doom of the Southern Kingdom, as well! So, verse 23 is about the destruction of the Land of Isra'el circa 689 B.C. and the subsequent tribute that the Southern Kingdom paid to the king of Assyria, Sennacherib. So, when you equate the description of the New Jerusalem to the believers as a "city set on a hill" found in Matthew's Gospel at Matthew 5:14, you are defying two natural barriers. First, it is a different book by a different human author. We don't even know if it was written and in circulation yet when Revelation was being written. So, literarily speaking, why should they be linked in thought at all? Two different books, two different authors, unrelated subject matter. The only way one could even assume that such a connection was valid would be by one's own prejudice! Second, there is a time barrier in that Matthew 5 was DURING the Messiah's offer of the Kingdom to the Jews, and Revelation was AFTER the Messiah's rejection, death, burial and resurrection when the Messiah's offer of the Kingdom was rescinded and postponed until His Second Coming! An analogy between these two is forced and is purely from the allegorical intepretation of Scripture and not from any legitimate connection between the two ... IMO. The current elevation of the Old City of Yerushalayim is 2,490 feet. That's 150 feet less than 1/2 a mile (2,640 feet). How does that compare to a city that is said to be 1,500 miles high?

Shalom, Fez. I find your tone argumentative and sarcastic. Capitals denote shouting on any forum, something you well know. You violated the TOS, please don't do it again. I've been wrestling with this for a while now, and the Ruach haQodesh Elohiym (the Holy Spirit of God) will not give me peace about this until I've made this right. You are right; I was being too argumentative and sarcastic. Although I will often use capitals for emphasis, I admit that it could have been mistaken for shouting, and had I been talking to OneLight in person, I may have raised my voice in reality, too. What's worse is that I was treating a brother in a condescending way and treating the Ruach haQodesh within him the same way in the process. I did this publicly in this thread; so, I make this apology publicly in this thread as well: I have quoted your post with hopes of getting your attention only. Shalom, OneLight. I do apologize for being rude to you and the Holy Spirit within you. I apologize for insulting you and for "shouting" at you. I'm truly sorry for mistreating you as a brother in the Messiah, and I'll do my best not to do it again, not to you or to anyone else. Shalom, again, Fez. And, to you, too, brother, I apologize for being sarcastic and combative and for violating the TOS in this way, too. I am sorry, and I won't do it again with the LORD'S help.

Shalom, Fez. And your assumption is based on ... ? What? Some "gut feeling?" Absurd. God gives us a brain for a reason! USE IT! Firstly, OneLight makes no assumption, he makes a statement that equal means equal, which is the same definition I have as equal. Secondly, and far more importantly, you have just violated the TOS and directly insulted him, and you should apologize for your outburst. Firstly, he DID make an assumption! He assumed that the city was in the shape of a cube! Apparently, you have, too! The Scriptures do not SAY that, however; therefore, it is an ASSUMPTION! Secondly, I have NOT violated the TOS. I have simply said that he HAS a brain, but has chosen not to use it in this instance! We ALL do the same thing from time to time. He GAVE UP on the math; that's all! As a math teacher, I would have done the same thing to ANY of my students! Sometimes, people just need to be shown that they HAVE given up, but that the work is NOT outside of their reach! They just need to REACH! Once they realize that "it's easy," then they excel in ways that they didn't know was possible! I CARE about OneLight, just like I CARE about you! That's why I type so much! If I didn't care, I'd just give up, but I'm not willing to leave ANYONE behind who is seriously seeking the Truth! Look, some things will be easy when it comes to understanding the Scriptures; some things will be harder to understand. All I'm asking is that someone give an EFFORT to understand when they're a little tougher, and not hide behind the statements, "God will reveal it all in due time" or "the Holy Spirit did not tell me that, so it must be false" or "I prefer to stick with what scripture says and not try to complicate it with an imagination, a visualization, a drawing or math." These are "COP OUTS," EXCUSES one makes to oneself and others when the going gets tough! I don't believe that the visualization is out of the reach of ANYONE on this forum: Just make a "V" in the center of a sheet of paper and put a square in it about half the size of the "V" so that it is touching the "V" with two of its corners. Then, just make sure while you're drawing the square that it's fairly "level" with respect to the point of the "V" so that the distance from the point of the "V" to one of the square's touching corners is the same as the distance from the point of the "V" to the square's other touching corner. Then, if you have a compass, put the needle end of the compass on the point of the "V" and the pencil end of the compass on one of the touching corners of the square and drag it across to the other touching corner, making an arc. What you've just drawn is a representation of the cross section of the earth and the cube city with respect to the earth's surface. It doesn't matter if it's accurate; a sketch will do! The point of the "V" represents the center of the earth, the New Earth; the arc represents the surface of the earth; the lines of the "V" represent the direction for "down" at the points where the arc crosses the "V"; and "down" is toward the point of the "V." I wasn't even making anybody do the math! I did the math for whoever could receive it! If one doesn't have a compass, a string tied to one's pencil (as close to the point of the pencil as possible) and held to the point of the "V" with one's finger will do. Just pinch down the string to the point of the "V" so that the string doesn't move away from the point or slip when one is pulling the string taut. Put the point of the pencil on one of the touching corners of the square, hold the pencil as straight up and down as possible, and draw the arc to the other touching corner, keeping the string taut all the time. Now, for the pyramid that has the same height as the length, simply draw two more lines: Find the center of the top of the square by either measuring the width of the square at the top and dividing it by two and measuring out to the middle, or "guestimate" the center of the line, if you're good with with mentally dividing a distance in half. Then, draw a straight line from this center point down to one of the touching corners of the square. Finally, draw a second, straight line from the center of the top to the other touching corner of the square. The triangle that you've just formed represents a cut-away view of the pyramid. The triangle's height is the same as the length of the bottom of the square, and that is ALL that the Scriptures give us about the height or the shape! Montana Marv is right on both accounts. The two basic shapes that fit the facts are the pyramid and the cube. And, a triangle is ALWAYS more stable than a square! Squares can be "pushed over" into the shape of a rhombus, but you can't do that to a triangle without breaking one of its sides. That's why so many triangles are incorporated into buildings and bridges. Even a gate will have a cross beam that divides the rectangle of the gate into two more stable triangles. Thirdly, English versions of a passage are nebulous and varied; some do a good job of translating the Greek, others not so much. So, here is the Greek of this one verse: Apokalupsis 21:16 16 Kai hee polis tetragoonos keitai kai to meekos autees hoson kai to platos. Kai emetreesen teen polin too kalamoo epi stadioon doodeka chiladoon, to meekos kai to platos kai to hupsos autees isa estin. 16 Kai = 16 And hee = the polis = city tetragoonos = four-cornered keitai = lies-outstretched kai = and to = the meekos = length autees = of-it hoson = like/as kai = also to = the platos. = width. Kai = And emetreesen = he-measured teen = the polin = city too = with-the kalamoo = reed epi = upon stadioon = stadii/furlongs doodeka = twelve chiladoon, = thousands, to = the meekos = length kai = and to = the platos = width kai = and to = the hupsos = height autees = of-it isa = equal estin. = are. 16 And the city four-cornered lies-outstretched and the length of-it like/as also the width. And he-measured the city with-the reed upon stadii/furlongs twelve thousands, the length and the width and the height of-it equal are. 16 And the city lies outstretched four-cornered and the length of it as also the width. And he measured the city with the reed down to (or just over) twelve thousand stadii or furlongs, the length and the width and the height of it are equal. And just one more little tidbit: The "golden reed" (Greek: kalamos chruseos) used to measure this city is NOT a yardstick or some other sort of measuring stick; it's a THEODOLITE or surveyor's TRANSIT! You wouldn't really expect someone to measure 1,500 MILES with a yardstick, would you, especially UPWARD?

Shalom, OneLight. And your assumption is based on ... ? What? Some "gut feeling?" Absurd. God gives us a brain for a reason! USE IT!

Shalom, OneLight. You're not being sensible. Don't think that this question is a "show stopper." First of all, it doesn't have to be. It just has to have the same height as its overall length and width. Second, don't think for one moment that a cube doesn't have the same problem! Consider this carefully; it will require some thought, some imagination (or at least visualization using a globe), maybe a careful drawing, and some math: IF the city was a TRUE cube, then the distance that one would travel across the earth's surface WILL BE DIFFERENT whether one is at the top of the cube or at the bottom of the cube! You've got to remember that the cube is even MORE susceptible to the curvature of the earth! We're still talking about a distance of 1,500 miles! Again, assuming that the dimensions of the New Earth will remain basically the same after the Fire, just as the present earth stayed basically the same as the antediluvian earth after the Flood, we are talking about a distance that covers 1,500 mi / 24,902 mi x 360 degrees = 21.685 degrees! Imagine a cut-away view of the earth with the city sitting on its surface. Then, we would have a pie wedge from the center of the earth to each side of the city (actually the center gates on opposite sides of the city) that measures 21.685 degrees at the center of the earth! THAT'S A HUGE ARC! If we were to connect the two points (the two gates) with a straight line, it would pass THROUGH the earth to a depth of 3963.3 mi - 3963.3 mi cos (10.8425 degrees) = 70.75 miles deep! So, you have to ask yourself: IS the city truly a cube dipping down into the earth until it is 70.75 miles deep in the middle? OR does the city's base follow the curvature of the earth? Now, extend that wedge until it is 1,500 miles above the curved surface of the earth. The edges of this wedge would be perpendicular to the earth's surface at each gate, but the cube would be 10.8425 degrees slanted toward the city! Furthermore, the first foundation of the city would also slope downward into the earth (if it goes down to 70.75 miles below sea level) at that 10.8425 degrees from the "level" surface of the earth at those gates! Can you see the difficulty? Let's assume for a moment that the city's base follows the curvature of the earth (which it probably should): Does that mean that the TOP of the cube also follows the curvature of the earth to keep the height consistent? If so, then how is it a "cube?!" Furthermore, how does one measure the height of the city if the wall is slanted by 10.8425 degrees? Does one measure staight up vertically and then over to the top or does one measure straight up the slanted side and ... then what? If the wall is perpendicular, then the top of the city is literally longer than the 1,500 miles! If the top of the city is held to 1,500 miles, then the bottom of the city is much shorter than the 1,500 miles, AND the shape would be more like a trapezoid with curved bases, being longer at the top, whichever is 1,500 miles! Do you see the multiple problems with a "cube" that size on the surface of the earth?! The pyramid must also face the same challenges of the curvature of the earth's surface, but it is FAR easier! One must simply allow the foundations to follow the curvature of the earth's surface. Y'know, the Scriptures never say it's exactly a pyramid, but it still makes better sense for the pinnacle to have the light that is the Lamb of God who rivals the sun in its brightness!

Shalom, Fez. It is important in the understanding of the REST of prophecy! For instance, did you know that there are several locations when the prophecies about Mount Zion and Jerusalem are MIXED or EQUATED? Why would that be? Well, I believe that it's because the city IS the mountain, and vice versa! Consider these passages, for instance: Psalm 48:1-2 1 Great is the Lord, and greatly to be praised in the city of our God, in the mountain of his holiness. 2 Beautiful for situation, the joy of the whole earth, is mount Zion, on the sides of the north, the city of the great King. KJV Hebrews 12:22-24 22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, 23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect, 24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel. KJV The Hebrew of Psalm 48:1-2 is this (transliterated): Psalm 48:1-3 48:1 Shiyr mizmowr libneey Qorach. 2 Gaadowl YHWH uwmhulaal m'od b`iyr Eloheeynuw Har qaadshow: 3 Yfeeh nowf msows kaal haa'aarets Har Tsiyown yarkteey tsaafown qiryat Melekh Raav: 48:1 Shiyr = 48:1 A-song mizmowr = of-psalm libneey = for-the-sons Qorach: = of-Qorach/Korah. 2 Gaadowl = 2 Great YHWH = [the]-LORD uwmhulaal = and-to-be-praised m'od = greatly b`iyr = in-[the]-city Eloheeynuw = of-our-God Har = Mountain qaadshow: = of-His-holiness. 3 Yfeeh = 3 Beautiful/pleasant nowf = of-position msows = joy kaal = of-all haa'aarets = the-earth/land Har = Mountain Tsiyown = of-Zion yarkteey = aligned-by tsaafown = north qiryat = building/city Melekh = of-[the]-King Raav: = Honored/High-Ranking. 48:1 A-song of-psalm for-the-sons of-Qorach/Korah. 2 Great [the]-LORD and-to-be-praised greatly in-[the]-city of-our-God Mountain of-His-holiness. 3 Beautiful/pleasant of-position joy of-all the-earth/land Mountain of- Zion aligned-by north [the]-building/city of-[the]-King Honored/High- Ranking. Notice how it treats the city AS the mountain! Furthermore, it calls the mountain a BUILDING! Now, look at the Greek of Hebrews 12:22 in particular: Hebrews 12:22-24 12:22 Alla proseleeluthate Sioon orei kai polei Theou zoontos, Ierousaleem epouranioo, kai muriasin aggeloon, paneegurei 23 kai ekkleesia proototokoon apogegrammenoon en ouranois kai kritee Theoo pantoon kai pneumasi dikaioon teteleioomenoon 24 kai diatheekees neas Mesitee Ieesou kai haimati hrantismou kreitton lalounti para ton Habel. 12:22 Alla = 12:22 But proseleeluthate = ye-are-come-toward Sioon = Tsiown/Zion orei = mountain kai = and polei = city Theou = of-God zoontos, = living, Ierousaleem = Yerushalayim/Jerusalem epouranioo, = from-above-the-sky kai = and muriasin = a-"myriad"/ten-thousand aggeloon, = of-messengers/angels, paneegurei = a-meeting-of-all 23 kai = 23 and ekkleesia = a-called-out-[assembly]/church proototokoon = of-the-firstborn (plural) apogegrammenoon = which-are-written/recorded en = in ouranois = [the]-skies kai = and Kritee = to-Judge Theoo = God pantoon = of-all kai = and pneumasi = to-[the]-spirits dikaioon = of-[the]-just/justified/equitable-[ones] teteleioomenoon = made-mature 24 kai = 24 and diatheekees = of-a-Covenant neas = New Mesitee = to-Mediator/Go-Between Ieesou = Yeshua`/Jesus kai = and haimati = to-[the]-blood hrantismou = of-sprinkling kreitton = stronger/nobler/better lalounti = that-speaks para = more-than/near/at ton = of-the Habel. = Hevel/Abel. 12:22 But ye-are-come-toward Tsiown/Zion mountain and city of-God living, Yerushalayim/Jerusalem from-above-the-sky and a-"myriad"/ten-thousand of-messengers/angels, a-meeting-of-all 23 and a-called-out-[assembly]/church of-the-firstborn (plural) which-are-written/recorded in [the]-skies and to-Judge God of-all and to-[the]-spirits of-[the]-just/justified/equitable-[ones] made-mature 24 and of-a-Covenant New to-Mediator/Go-Between Yeshua`/Jesus and to-[the]-blood of-sprinkling stronger/nobler/better that-speaks more-than/near/at of-the Hevel/Abel. Notice here how Tsiown (Zion) is called both the mountain AND the city! Then it is named "Yerushalayim (Jerusalem) From Above the Sky." All of this is BARELY seen in the English versions we have! There are a myriad (to borrow from the Greek) of little things that all add up to a better, more tangible idea of what we are to expect, and as these things become more tangible, so our expectations become more concrete! Paul said to Timothy, 2 Timothy 3:13-17 ... 13 But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived. 14 But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them; 15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures (the Tanakh, the Old Testament; they had no other at the time), which are able to make thee wise unto salvation (rescue/deliverance) through faith (trust) which is in Christ Jesus (the Messiah Yeshua`). 16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God (Elohiym), and is profitable for doctrine (teaching), for reproof (scolding), for correction (redirection), for instruction in righteousness: 17 That the man of God (Elohiym's man) may be perfect (mature), throughly furnished (completely equipped) unto all good works. KJV The more that one learns from the Scriptures, the more attuned that one will be to the GOD of the Scriptures! The more that one learns about the GOD of the Scriptures - not just the things about God but the ATTITUDE of God, the TRUSTWORTHINESS (FAITHFULNESS) of God, and the LOVE God has for His children - the more one will be able to TRUST GOD (HAVE FAITH IN GOD), for he will learn that he CAN trust God! We all know we should; but not many of us know we can! All of the prophecy schemas and positions that people hold, all of the charts that they can draw, all of the eschatologies they can dream up mean NOTHING if it's not REAL! To borrow from a popular commercial, we need to be "grounded to the ground!" We need to get our heads out of the ethereal, intangible, airy, "heaven" of clouds and mist and pearly gates and get our feet back on the GROUND! The New Jerusalem, which CONTAINS the throne of God and of the Lamb, will be LANDING ON THE NEW EARTH!!! It's REAL! It's TANGIBLE! It's CONCRETE! (Actually, it's mostly JASPER and GOLD!) It's PHYSICAL! And, it's something we CAN COUNT ON! The more REAL it is to us, the more EXPECTATION we will have for our future! And, the EXPECTATION we have for our future, the more EXCITED we will get to be there! And, the more EXCITED we will get to be there, we won't have to be told to witness; we won't have to be prodded to witness; we won't even have to force ourselves to witness to others! It'll just bubble out of us because of how excited we are! BUT! BUT, we have to be GROUNDED in what we believe! We have to KNOW the Scriptures so well, that NO ONE will be able to "throw a wet blanket" on our EXPECTATIONS and EXCITEMENT, and a picture - even if only in our minds - is worth a THOUSAND words! It's our ANCHOR and our MOORINGS! So, the picture needs to be concrete. But, it also needs to be accurate to the text! John said that he saw "the throne of God and of the Lamb" in the city. He also said that the river of the water of life flowed FROM that throne. (Rev. 22:1-5) In a cube, where would "the throne of God and of the Lamb" be? Wouldn't it make sense that it would be in the very center of the cube? Would it make sense to have people living in the city above the Throne of God? Since the city will be sitting on the New Earth, affected by the gravity of the New Earth, how would the water flow upward to them? In a pyramid, where would the throne of God and of the Lamb be? Wouldn't it make sense that it would be at the pinnacle or in the capstone of the pyramid? NOW which way would the water have to flow? It would flow downward, NATURALLY following the pull of gravity. It would also be able to start at one point and divide and spread to all parts of the city without any problem at all. The Scriptures above also say that it flows down the middle of the Street of the city as the medians of our interstate highways do. In fact, we are told that on either side of the river is the species known as the "tree of life." So, there is a beautiful park that is in the middle of the Street of the city that runs with the Street for miles and miles. This Street is no mere walkway! It must be a HUGE thoroughfare! Did you know that the word "paradise," which is a transliteration of the Greek word "paradeisos" which in turn is a transliteration of the Hebrew word "pardeec" (pronounced "par-DACE"), means a "PARK" or "ORCHARD"? Now, where would this Street eventually go? Wouldn't it make sense to be connected to the twelve gates of the city that exit to the New Earth? I believe that both the river of the water of life and the tree of life spill out onto the New Earth through these gates! The river of the water of life will be divided into twelve rivers, three rivers each heading in one of the four compass directions. Consider these verses: Psalm 118:22-26 22 The stone which the builders refused is become the head stone of the corner (the chief stone of the angle; the capstone!). 23 This is the Lord's doing; it is marvellous in our eyes. 24 This is the day which the Lord hath made; we will rejoice and be glad in it. 25 Save now, I beseech thee, O Lord: O Lord, I beseech thee, send now prosperity. 26 Blessed be he that cometh in the name of the Lord: we have blessed you out of the house of the Lord. KJV Zechariah 4:6-7 6 Then he answered and spake unto me, saying, This is the word of the LORD unto Zerubbabel (an ancestor of Yeshua`), saying, Not by might, nor by power, but by my spirit, saith the LORD of hosts. 7 Who art thou, O great mountain? before Zerubbabel thou shalt become a plain (not flattened but DWARFED): and he shall bring forth the headstone (capstone!) thereof with shoutings, crying, Grace, grace unto it. KJV These are just SOME of the reasons why it is important to know what John was looking at when he was shown the New Jerusalem.

Shalom, OneLight. Look, every three-dimensional object has the three dimensions of length, width, and height. Even a SPHERE has a length, a width, and a height! It doesn't matter the shape of the object. If it is "three-dimensional" or "3D," it will have length, width, and height! "Two-dimensional" or "2D" is a flat drawing, like any picture that you might have on the wall. It has length and width, but no depth (which would be the height of objects sticking out of the picture into the room or into the wall beyond the room). The TV set that most people have are 2D. This is why movie productions have special techniques to show depth, like spinning the camera shot, or panning the scene. When someone goes into a building in the movie, the viewer can't get up and look at the TV from the side to see where that person went! The images that we are shown merely have the illusion of three dimensions but they truly only have two. If you will draw a small square in the center of a page, say 2 inches by 2 inches, and then draw four triangles, each containing one of the sides of the square, radiating out from the square, and all four of them with the same lengths of lines, say 2.45 inches (approximately the square root of 6), that is, all 8 of the lines you draw outside the square are 2.45 inches in length, you could cut along the perimeter of this eight-sided polygon to make a four-pointed star. Then, if you folded along each of the four sides of the center square and joined them along the sides all the way until they formed a point at the top, you would have a pyramid that "lieth foursquare" with a length of 2 inches, a width of 2 inches, and a height of 2 inches! That's how a three-dimensional object such as the pyramid you just made can have a length the same as the width and the height. (Btw, 0.45 = 9/20 which is just a fraction larger than 7/16, since most rulers will be divided no more precisely than 16ths. Also, the height of each of the 4 triangles you make will be 2.236 inches from its base, the side of the square, and 0.236 is just a fraction smaller than 1/4 or 4/16. 2.236 is approximately the square root of 5.) This is simple geometry, and it can be a fun little project to do. But, the importance of this is to see how the height of the pyramid can still be the same as the length and the width.

Shalom, Bold Believer. LOL! Out of all that I wrote, THAT'S what you came away with?! Yochanan did NOT "describe it as a cube!" He merely said that it "LIETH FOURSQUARE," meaning that it has four square (right) angles and covers a square footprint, and that its length and width and height are all the same length, 12,000 furlongs or 1,500 miles. That's IT! He NEVER said it was a cube! That's only what some people ASSUME because they don't understand the "lieth foursquare" part! And, don't just assume the same thing because of some fictional, made-up allegorical interpretation you prefer to the literal interpretation of chapters 21 and 22! Stop being so superficially superstitious to call it a "spiritual" interpretation and use the UNRELATED PHRASE, "perfection of those just men made perfect!" GET YOUR FEET BACK ON THE GROUND!

Shalom, Bold Believer. No, that's NOT right! The New Jerusalem, Yerushalayim haChadashah in Hebrew, will be a huge, literal city that descends to the New Earth AFTER the Fire's renovation of the earth. It's not "cube-like"; it will most likely be pyramidal because of its size! Everything outside of the New Jerusalem, God's HOUSE, will be the beautiful New Earth, God's BACKYARD! Just because Yochanan noted that there was "no more sea" does not mean that there will be no more WATER! To the contrary, he may have simply been talking about the Mediterranean Sea that was separating him from his loved ones in Yeshua` who were on the mainland of Asia Minor, today known as Turkey. Indeed, if the New Jerusalem is centered upon the coordinates for the Old City, its weight will raise the surrounding land, creating new hills and mountains and drive the Mediterranean Sea back to the Atlantic! Furthermore, the Water of Life will flow out of the twelve gateways of the city, which will then always stand open as the twelve gates are permanently rolled away from their entrances. There WILL be water on the New Earth! Furthermore, the New Jerusalem will dwarf any mountain on the face of the earth, new or old! With a city that is 1,500 miles by 1,500 miles sitting on a square surface; that is, it covers a square footprint - it "LIETH FOURSQUARE" - we're talking about a structure that has a 6,000-mile perimeter! Having only twelve gates, that means that the distance between gates from center of gate to center of gate will be 500 MILES, even around a corner! We are also told that this city will be aligned with north for the city has four sides, each one related to one of the four compass directions. (This confirms that the city will land, btw.) We are also told that there will be three gates on each side. This uses the model of the city described by Yechezk'el (Ezekiel) that Yeshua` will build during the Millennium found in Ezekiel 48:30-35: Ezekiel 48:30-35 30 And these are the goings out of the city on the north side, four thousand and five hundred measures. 31 And the gates of the city shall be after the names of the tribes of Israel: three gates northward; one gate of Reuben, one gate of Judah, one gate of Levi. 32 And at the east side four thousand and five hundred: and three gates; and one gate of Joseph, one gate of Benjamin, one gate of Dan. 33 And at the south side four thousand and five hundred measures: and three gates; one gate of Simeon, one gate of Issachar, one gate of Zebulun. 34 At the west side four thousand and five hundred, with their three gates; one gate of Gad, one gate of Asher, one gate of Naphtali. 35 It was round about eighteen thousand measures: and the name of the city from that day shall be, The LORD is there. (Hebrew: YHWH shaamah). KJV Revelation 21:10-16 10 And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven (Greek: ouranos = the "sky") from God, 11 Having the glory of God: and her light was like unto a stone most precious, even like a jasper stone, clear as crystal; 12 And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel: 13 On the east three gates; on the north three gates; on the south three gates; and on the west three gates. 14 And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb. 15 And he that talked with me had a golden reed to measure the city, and the gates thereof, and the wall thereof. 16 And the city lieth foursquare, and the length is as large as the breadth: and he measured the city with the reed, twelve thousand furlongs (Greek: stadioi = Latin: stadia; 1 stadios = 1 stadium = 660 feet). The length and the breadth and the height of it are equal. KJV 12,000 stadioi x (660 feet / 1 stadios) x (1 mile / 5,280 feet) = 1,500 miles. Thus, I believe that the New Jerusalem will have a similar construction. From the northwest corner going eastward, one will have 250 miles and then the gate of Re`uven. There will be another 500 miles and then the gate of Y'hudah. There will be another 500 miles and then the gate of Leviy, and then 250 more miles to the northeast corner. Going south from the northeast corner, one will have another 250 miles and then the gate of Yosef. There will be another 500 miles and then the gate of Bin-Yamiyn. There will be another 500 miles and then the gate of Dan, and then 250 miles to the southeast corner. From the southeast corner going westward, one will have 250 miles and then the gate of Shim`own. There will be another 500 miles and then the gate of Yissachar. After another 500 miles from there, will be the third gate of Z'vulun, and then 250 more miles will lead one to the southwest corner. Going north from that corner 250 miles one will come to the gate of Gad. After another 500 miles from that gate, there will be the middle gate of Asher. After another 500 miles northward, one will come to the gate of Naftaliy, and 250 miles more, one will come to where the journey began at the northwest corner of the city! Furthermore, this city is said to be 1,500 miles HIGH! Since Mount Everest is only 5.5 miles high, we're talking about a city that is 272.7 times higher than the highest peak on the present earth! First, I believe that the New Earth will be a renovation of the present earth, much as the present earth was a renovation of the antediluvian earth, the earth before the Flood of Noah's time. As such, the dimensions will not change significantly. So, I believe that the New Earth will have about a 24,902-mile circumference as the present earth does. This means that 1,500 miles will cover 1,500 miles / 24,902 miles x 360 degrees = 21.685 degrees of the earth's circumference! That means several things: First, that the direction for "down" on one side of the city will be 21.685 degrees different than the direction for "down" on the opposite side of the city! (This is why a cube won't work. It will either not be truly cubical or it won't look cubical.) Second, that means that the direction for "down" in the center of the city will be 21.685 / 2 = 10.8425 degrees different than "down" at the center of any of the four sides of the city. Third, that means that some of the gates won't even be in the same time zone as other gates! (Each time zone is roughly 15 degrees.) Fourth, consider this: since we are talking about the curvature of the earth as the earth "falls away" from the plain assumed as "level" at the center of the city, it will be even MORE pronounced at the corners of the city! Thus, a much greater number of degrees separates the center to a corner and from corner to opposite corner! Finally, we are talking about a four-sided pyramid (I believe) that is 1,500 miles high at the pinnacle Take a nail and a globe and use the mileage scale on the globe to determine how long 1,500 miles would be. (My globe uses 660 miles = 1 inch; therefore, my nail needs to be at least 1,500 miles x (1 inch / 660 miles) = 2 3/11 inches long.) Center the nail at Jerusalem with that height to the head, attempting to keep it perpendicular to the earth's surface at that point and then tilt the globe around from various points of view to see when you lose being able to see the top of the nail. This is the distance in that direction that you could still see the pinnacle of the city from the surface of the earth! I can still see it from portions of Morocco, and eastern China, east and west, and from north and south, from Norway to Zimbabwe! ALL OF THIS TERRITORY can directly see the pinnacle of the city! Even beyond that, the light of the city will still be visible! If Yeshua`s light will "outshine the sun," even WITH a sun, the Sun of Righteousness will drive out the night from that side of the earth! That's why I SO enjoy this verse: Isaiah 24:23 23 Then the moon shall be confounded, and the sun ashamed, when the Lord of hosts shall reign in mount Zion, and in Jerusalem, and before his ancients gloriously. KJV Even though we are told that "the city will have no need for the sun or the moon," we are NOT told that there will be no more sun or moon, nor are we told that the rest of the earth won't have need for the sun or the moon. This verse uses personification, but if we take away the personification, it tells us that the moon shall be mixed up (in its phases) and the sun shall be outdone for brightness! How neat is it going to be to see TWO phases on the moon at once, based on its position relative to the sun and relative to the New Jerusalem?! Don't be so quick to give up on the literal point of view!

Shalom, other one. And, don't forget half of Turkey! (I think you should shift the landing zone north a little so that the center of the New Jerusalem would be at the coordinates for the Old Jerusalem, particularly the Old City.) I've done the math, btw, and a cube won't do. If it has a simple shape at all, it would have to be the pyramid. At 1,500 miles across the middle of the city from the center gate on one side of the city to the center gate on the opposite side of the city, that would be 1,500 miles / 24,902 miles * 360 degrees = 21.685 degrees of the earth's circumference (assuming the New Earth will have similar dimensions to this present earth). That means comparing the center gate on one side of the city to the center gate on the opposite side of the city, the direction for "down" would be different by that 21.685 degrees! If it were a true cube, then the cube would not look like a cube at all from a position just outside one of those two gates! Both walls of the city would slant in by 21.685 / 2 = 10.8425 degrees from perpendicular! The walls of the "cube" would not be plumb! The pyramid idea works better. You still have the walls slanting in by that 10.8425 degrees, but a pyramid with an isosceles triangle in its cross sectional view (although the base of the triangle would be curved to the surface of the earth). This would produce a pinnacle angle of 50.78 degrees and an ascent angle of 64.61 - 10.8425 = 53.77 degrees. Because of how the pinnacle would diminish into the distance (it's 1,738.7 miles away from that center gate), this pyramid would APPEAR to have dimensions of an equilateral triangle (with curving sloped sides), and yet from a distance one could tell that it DOES have an isosceles shape to the triangle such that it's curved base is equal to it's height. Just some food for thought