Retrobyter

Shalom, Marilyn. Sorry for the delay. I had a good post going, had to do some other things, and LOST it. You seem to be stuck on Ephesians 1:21 and 4:10. Yet, these passages have no strength as to describing from where the Messiah shall rule and reign. Ephesians 1:3-23 (KJV) 3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ (Greek: en tois epouraniois en Christoo = "in places-above-the-sky in the Messiah"): 4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: 5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, 6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved. 7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace; 8 Wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence; 9 Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself: 10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him: 11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will: 12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ. 13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, 14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory. 15 Wherefore I also, after I heard of your faith in the Lord Jesus, and love unto all the saints, 16 Cease not to give thanks for you, making mention of you in my prayers; 17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him: 18 The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints, 19 And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power, 20 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places, 21 Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come: 22 And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church, 23 Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all. However, the wording is a bit chaotic, and it doesn't follow the meaning of the Greek text as well as it may. So, I'm supplying the Greek, as well: Pros Efesious 1:3-23 (transliterated) 3 Eulogeetos ho Theos kai Pateer tou Kuriou heemoon Ieesou Christou, ho eulogeesas heemas end pasee eulogia pneumatikee en tois epouraniois en Christoo, 4 kathoos exelexato heemas en autoo pro katabolees kosmou, einai heemas hagious kai amoomous katenoopion autou, en agapee 5 pro-opisas heemas eis huiothesian dia Ieesou Christou eis auton, kata teen eudokian tou theleematos autou, 6 eis epainon doxees tees charitos autouhees echaritoosen heemas en too Eegaeemenoo, 7 en hoo echomen teen apolutroosin dia tou haimatos autou, teen afesin toon paraptoomatoon, kata to ploutos tees charitos autou 8 hees eperisseusen eis heemas en pasee sofia kai froneesei 9 gnoorisas heemin to musteerion tou theleematos autou, kata teen eudokian autou, heen proetheto en autoo 10 eis oikonomian tou pleeroomatos toon kairoon, anakefalaioosasthai ta panta en too Christoo, ta epi tois ouranois kai ta epi tees gees; 11 en autoo, en hoo kai ekleerootheemen pro-opisthentes kata prothesin tou ta panta energountas kata teen bouleen tou theleematos autou, 12 eis to einai heemas eis epainon doxees autou tous proeelpikotas en too Christoo; 13 en hoo kai humeis, akousantes ton logon tees aleetheias, to euaggelion humoon, en hoo kai pisteusantes esfragistheete too Pneumati tees epaggelias too Hagioo, 14 ho estin arraboon tees kleeronomias heemoon, eis apolutroosin tees peripoieeseoos, eis epainon tees doxees autou. 15 Dia touto kagoo, akousas teen kath' humas pistin en too Kurioo Ieesou kai teen agapeen teen eis pantas tous hagious, 16 ou pauomai eucharistoon huper humoon mneian poioumenos epi toon proseuchoon mou, 17 hina ho Theos tou Kuriou heemoon Ieesou Christou, ho Pateer tees doxees, dooee humin pneuma sofias kai apokalupseoos en epignoosei autou, 18 pefootismenous tous ofthalmous tees kardias humoon, eis to eidenai humas tis estin hee elpis tees kleeseoos autou, tis ho ploutos tees doxees tees kleeronomias autou en tois hagious, 19 kai ti to huperballon megethos tees dunameoos autou eis heemas tous pisteuontos kata teen energeian tou kratous tees ischuos autou, 20 heen eneergeeken en too Christoo egeiras auton ek nekroon, kai kathisas en dexia autou en tois epouraniois 21 huperanoo pasees archees kai exousias kai dunameoos kai kurioteetos kai pantos onomatos onomazomenouou monon en too aiooni toutoo alla kai en too mellonti; 22 kai panta hupetaxen hupo tous podas autou, kai auton edooken kefaleen huper panta tee ekkleesia, 23 heetis estin to sooma autou, to pleerooma tou ta panta en pasin pleeroumenou. 3 Eulogeetos = 3 Good-words/sayings ho = to-the Theos = God kai = and Pateer = Father tou = of-the Kuriou = Lord/Master heemoon = of-us Ieesou = Yeeshua`/Jesus Christou, = Messiah/Christ ho = the eulogeesas = having-said-good-words/sayings-to heemas = us en = in/with pasee = every eulogia = good-word/saying pneumatikee = "spiritual"/wind-like en = in tois = the epouraniois = [places]-above-the-skies en = in Christoo, = Messiah/Christ, 4 kathoos = 4 like/as exelexato = He-chose heemas = us en = in autoo = Him pro = before katabolees = laying-down kosmou, = of-[the]-world, einai = to-be heemas = for-us hagious = holy/singled-out kai = and/also amoomous = unblemished katenoopion = before autou, = Him, en = in agapee = love 5 pro-opisas = 5 predestinated heemas = us eis = into huiothesian = adoption-as-sons dia = through Ieesou = Yeshua`/Jesus Christou = Messiah/Christ eis = into auton, = Himself, kata = according-to teen = the eudokian = giving-good/favor tou = of-the theleematos = will autou, = of-Him/His, 6 eis = 6 into epainon = praise doxees = of-brightness tees = of-the charitos = of-grace autou = of-Him hees = the-(which) echaritoosen = He-has-graciously-given heemas = us en = in too = the Eegaeemenoo, = Beloved-(One), 7 en = 7 in hoo = whom echomen = we-have teen = the apolutroosin = release-effected-by-payment-of-ransom dia = through tou = the haimatos = blood autou, = of-Him/His, teen = the afesin = pardon toon = of-the paraptoomatoon, = oversteppings-(of-the-boundaries-of-Law), kata = according-to to = the ploutos = riches/wealth tees = of-the charitos = grace autou = of-Him/His 8 hees = 8 the-which eperisseusen = He-lavished eis = into heemas = us en = in pasee = all sofia = wisdom kai = and/also froneesei = understanding 9 gnoorisas = 9 having-made-known heemin = to-us to = the musteerion = secret/"mystery" tou = of-the theleematos = will autou, = of-Him/His, kata = according-to teen = the eudokian = good-pleasure autou, = of-Him/His, heen = which proetheto = He-planned-before en = in autoo = Him 10 eis = 10 into oikonomian = a-stewardship tou = of-the pleeroomatos = fulness toon = of-the kairoon, = times, anakefalaioosasthai = summarizing-all-parts-to-a-head ta = of-the panta = all-(things) en = in too = the Christoo, = Messiah/Christ, ta = the-(things) epi = above/upon tois = the ouranois = skies kai = and ta = the-(things) epi = above/upon tees = the gees; = ground/land/earth; 11 en = 11 in autoo, = Him, en = in hoo = whom kai = and/also ekleerootheemen = we-have-obtained-an-inheritance pro-opisthentes = predetermined kata = according-to prothesin = [the]-plan tou = of-the-[One] ta = the panta = all-[things] energountas = working kata = according-to teen = the bouleen = decree tou = of-the theleematos = will autou, = of-Him/His, 12 eis = 12 into to = the-[whom] einai = to-be heemas = us eis = into epainon = praise doxees = of-glory/of-brightness autou = of-Him/His tous = to-the proeelpikotas = having-first-trusted en = in too = the Christoo; = Messiah/Christ; 13 en = 13 in hoo = whom kai = and/also humeis, = you, akousantes = having-heard ton = the logon = word/saying/message tees = of-the aleetheias, = truth, to = the euaggelion = good-news tees = of-the soteerias = rescue/deliverance humoon, = of-you/your, (plural) en = in hoo = whom kai = and/also pisteusantes = having-trusted esfragistheete = you-were-sealed too = by-the Pneumati = Spirit/Wind tees = of-the epaggelias = promise too = by-the Hagioo, = Singled-Out-[One]/Holy-[One], 14 ho = 14 who estin = is arraboon = a-guarantee tees = of-the kleeronomias = inheritance heemoon, = of-us/our, eis = into apolutroosin = a-release-effected-by-a-payment-of-ransom tees = of-the peripoieeseoos, = acquired-possession, eis = into epainon = a-praise tees = of-the doxees = glory/brightness autou. = of-Him/His. 15 Dia = 15 Through touto = this kagoo, = kai+egoo, = I-also, akousas = having-heard teen = the kath' = kata = among humas = you (plural) pistin = trust en = in too = the Kurioo = Master/Lord Ieesou = Yeshua`/Jesus kai = and/also teen = the (acc., fem.) agapeen = love (acc., fem.) teen = the (acc., fem.) eis = into pantas = all (acc., masc.) tous = the (acc., masc.) hagious, = holy-[ones], (acc., masc.) 16 ou = 16 not pauomai = do-cease eucharistoon = giving-thanks huper = over/above humoon = of-you mneian = memory poioumenos = making epi = above/upon/over toon = the proseuchoon = prayers mou, = of-me/my 17 hina = 17 so-that ho = the Theos = God tou = of-the Kuriou = Master/Lord heemoon = of-us/our Ieesou = Yeshua`/Jesus Christou, = Messiah/Christ, ho = the Pateer = Father tees = the doxees, = glory/brightness, dooee = may-gives humin = to-you pneuma = a-spirit sofias = of-wisdom kai = and/also apokalupseoos = uncovering en = in epignoosei = over-knowing autou, = of-Him, 18 pefootismenous = 18 illuminating tous = the ofthalmous = eyes tees = of-the kardias = heart humoon, = of-you/your, eis = into to = the eidenai = to-know humas = you tis = what estin = is hee = the elpis = hope tees = of-the kleeseoos = calling autou, = of-Him/His, tis = what ho = the ploutos = riches/wealth tees = of-the doxees = glory/brightness/fame tees = the kleeronomias = inheritance autou = of-Him/His en = in tois = the hagious, = holy-[ones], 19 kai = 19 and ti = what to = the huperballon = throwing-over/exceeding megethos = greatness tees = of-the dunameoos = power autou = of-Him/His eis = into heemas = us tous = the pisteuontos = trusting-ones kata = according-to teen = the energeian = work tou = of-the kratous = might tees = of-the ischuos = strength autou, = of-Him/His, 20 heen = 20 which eneergeeken = He-worked en = in too = the Christoo = Messiah/Christ egeiras = having-raised auton = Him ek = from nekroon, = [the]-dead, kai = and kathisas = having-set en = in dexia = right autou = of-Him/His en = in tois = the epouraniois = places-above-the-skies 21 huperanoo = 21 far-above pasees = every archees = rulership/realm kai = and exousias = authority kai = and dunameoos = power kai = and kurioteetos = lordship kai = and pantos = every onomatos = name onomazomenouou = being-named ou = not monon = only en = in too = the aiooni = age toutoo = this-one alla = but kai = and/also en = in too = the mellonti; = one-about-to-happen; 22 kai = 22 and/also panta = every hupetaxen = He-set-under hupo = under tous = the podas = feet autou, = of-Him/His, kai = and/also auton = Him edooken = He-gave kefaleen = a-head huper = over/above panta = all-things tee = to/for-the ekkleesia, = called-out-[group], 23 heetis = 23 which estin = is to = the sooma = body autou, = of-Him/His, to = the pleerooma = fullness tou = of-the-[One] ta = the panta = all en = in pasin = all pleeroumenou. = filling. Where in all this does it say that He is REIGNING from "Heaven?" It says that He was placed far above all authorities, but that is LITERAL! He was placed by God, His Father, in places "above the skies!" However, it does NOT say that He is currently reigning! He is merely above them, OUT OF THEIR REACH! Even their prayers aren't heeded! To the contrary, Yeshua` said through His parables: Luke 19:12-15 (KJV) 12 He said therefore, "A certain nobleman went into a far country to receive for himself a kingdom, and to return. 13 And he called his ten servants, and delivered them ten pounds, and said unto them, 'Occupy till I come.' 14 But his citizens hated him, and sent a message after him, saying, 'We will not have this man to reign over us!' 15 And it came to pass, that WHEN HE WAS RETURNED, having received the kingdom, THEN HE COMMANDED these servants to be called unto him, to whom he had given the money, that he might know how much every man had gained by trading." and Matthew 25:31 (KJV) 31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory (brightness), and all the holy angels with him, THEN SHALL HE SIT UPON THE THRONE OF HIS GLORY (BRIGHTNESS): You're reading too much into the words of Paul to the Ephesians!

Shalom, Marilyn C. Oops. You balked ... again. Okay, now, let's look at Revelation 3:21: Revelation 3:14-22 (KJV) 14 "And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God; 15 'I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot. 16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth. 17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked: 18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see. 19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent. 20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me. 21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.' 22 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches." Wouldn't that get a little crowded if everyone who overcomes is granted to sit with Yeshua` the Messiah on His throne? Please understand three things: First, the throne is wherever Yeshua` goes. In the UK (and being an Australian and part of the Commonwealth, you know this), wherever the Queen of England resides is the seat of the Royalty. That's why the flag flies over the Palace when she is present. Second, Yeshua` IS the JEWISH Messiah, and He is promised the throne of His father, David! Luke 1:30-33 (KJV) 30 And the angel said unto her, "Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God. 31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS. 32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David: 33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end." That doesn't mean "above" the house of Jacob; that means "on" or "upon" the house of Jacob! He shall be ON EARTH! Third, Yeshua` is NOT CURRENTLY reigning! Look at what Yeshua` Himself said: Luke 19:11-15ff (KJV) 11 And as they heard these things, he added and spake a parable, because he was nigh to Jerusalem, and because they thought that the kingdom of God should immediately appear. 12 He said therefore, "A certain nobleman (Himself) went into a far country to receive for himself a kingdom, and to return. 13 And he called his ten servants, and delivered them ten pounds, and said unto them, Occupy till I come. 14 But his citizens hated him, and sent a message after him, saying, We will not have this man to reign over us. 15 And it came to pass, that when he was returned, having received the kingdom, then he commanded these servants to be called unto him, ..." and, Matthew 25:31-34ff (KJV) 31 "When the Son of man (Yeshua`) shall come in his glory (brightness), and all the holy angels with him, THEN shall he sit upon the throne of his glory (brightness): 32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats: 33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left. 34 Then shall the King (Yeshua`) say unto them on his right hand, 'Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:...'" And, that does NOT mean that the kingdom was in existence "from the foundation of the world"; it means that God PLANNED "from the foundation of the world" for the kingdom to be inherited by those on Yeshua`s right hand side. It is AFTER He has returned to earth that we read,... Revelation 19:11-16 (KJV) 11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. 12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself. 13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called "The Word of God." 14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. 15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. 16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS. That's not just some nebulous title! It means that He is the KING of other kings, and He is the MASTER of other masters. It shows a hierarchy of rulership! Yeshua` is coming HERE to rule and reign!

Shalom, Jostler. It is when it's not in the Bible! You'll only find such teaching in the theology of human beings, which is susceptible to human error.

Shalom, Marilyn C. Okay, let's investigate this a little: Hebrews 11 really tells us that AVRAHAM ("ABRAHAM") was anticipating that city! Hebrews 11:8-20ff (KJV) 8 By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went. 9 By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles (Bedouin tents) with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise: 10 For he looked for a city which hath foundations (same word as in Revelation 21:14 and 19), whose builder and maker is God. (Hence, the name "Adonay" is introduced here in the account of Avraham.) 11 Through faith also Sara herself received strength to conceive seed, and was delivered of a child when she was past age, because she judged him faithful who had promised. 12 Therefore sprang there even of one, and him as good as dead, so many as the stars of the sky in multitude, and as the sand which is by the sea shore innumerable. 13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth. 14 For they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country. 15 And truly, if they had been mindful of that country from whence they came out (Ur), they might have had opportunity to have returned. 16 But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city. 17 By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten son, 18 Of whom it was said, "That in Isaac shall thy seed be called:" (Gen. 21:12b) 19 Accounting that God was able to raise him up, even from the dead; from whence also he received him in a figure. 20 By faith Isaac blessed Jacob and Esau concerning things to come. ... Notice that verses 8 through 19 are ALL about Avraham, whose name means "most exalted father!" Now, let's look at the descendants of Avraham: Galatians 3:26-29 (KJV) 26 For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. 27 For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise. To whom was Paul talking in the book of Galatians?! Galatians 1:1 (NKJV) 1 Paul, an apostle (not from men nor through man, but through Jesus Christ and God the Father who raised Him from the dead), 2 and all the brethren who are with me, To the churches of Galatia: Unlike the other letters which were addressed to a particular city's church, this letter was addressed to ALL the churches of the PROVINCE of Galatia! Yeshua` the Messiah or "Jesus (the) Christ" IS a Jew! That is, He was of the tribe of Yhudah ("Judah"). That didn't stop being true when He died and was resurrected! Yhudah was one of the sons of Ya`aqov ("Jacob") who was renamed as "Yisra'el" or "Israel," which means "he is a prince with God." (The key word that's buried in Yisra'el is "Sar," meaning "Prince" and the masculine version of the feminine name "Sarah," which means "princess.") Therefore, Yeshua` IS ALSO an Israelite (or Israeliy in Hebrew). Ya`aqov was one of the two sons of Yitschaq ("Isaac"), who in turn was one of the MANY sons of Avraham. The reason why one usually only hears of "Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob" is because Yitschaq was Abraham's HEIR, being the one promised by God! Ya`aqov was Yitschaq's HEIR, having both the blessing and the birthright! So, we have... Avraham \Yitschaq \\Ya`aqov \\\Yhudah ... \\\\Yeshua` the Messiah (or the Christ) \\\\\YOU, Marilyn C! Through the Messiah, you ARE an heir - an inheritor - of God's promises to Avraham, Yitschaq, Ya`aqov, and Yhudah ... IF you have "put on Christ!" (And, I believe that you have.) THEREFORE, you are also entitled (through the Messiah) to the New Jerusalem when it LANDS HERE on this earth being renewed!

Shalom, Marilyn C. Are you saying that the New Jerusalem will be for Israel (and all Old Testament saints) but not for "us, the Christians?"

Shalom, poor-in-spirit. Have you even READ Revelation 21? This is the ONLY PLACE in Scripture that calls anything or anyone "the Lamb's wife!" Revelation 21:1-14ff (KJV) 1 And I saw a new heaven (sky) and a new earth (land): for the first heaven (sky) and the first earth (land) were passed away; and there was no more sea. 2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven (the sky), prepared AS a bride adorned for her husband. 3 And I heard a great (loud) voice out of heaven (out of the throne) saying, "Behold, the tabernacle (Bedouin tent) of God is with men, and he will dwell (tent) with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God. 4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow (mourning), nor crying (outcries), neither shall there be any more pain (suffering from hard labor): for the former things are passed away." 5 And he that sat upon the throne said, "Behold, I make all things new." And he said unto me, "Write: for these words are true and faithful:" 6 And he said unto me, "It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely. 7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son. 8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death." 9 And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, "Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife." 10 And he carried me away in the spirit (on the wind) to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven (out of the sky) from God, 11 Having the glory of God: and her light was like unto a stone most precious, even like a jasper stone, clear as crystal; 12 And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel: 13 On the east three gates; on the north three gates; on the south three gates; and on the west three gates. 14 And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb. ... Balk at it all you want, but the Scriptures say what they say.

Shalom, OldCoot. First, there are no "dispensations"; a person has ALWAYS been justified by God through His grace, by the blood of a sacrifice, and through faith no matter when that person lived. That has NEVER changed. God's Law - His Torah - is better translated as "Instruction." As Rav Sha'uwl ("Paul") taught, the Torah was NEVER intended to be the means of one's justification. Instead, it was a school teacher to show us that we can NEVER perfectly keep His Torah, and if one offends in one point, he or she is guilty of ALL! Its purpose was to DRIVE an individual to the end of his or her self-sufficiency, and to come humbly to God for the help only He can provide! They had songs to that effect, many written by King David: Psalm 32:1-2 (KJV) 1 {A Psalm of David, Maschil.} Blessed is he whose transgression is forgiven, whose sin is covered. 2 Blessed is the man unto whom the LORD imputeth not iniquity, and in whose spirit there is no guile. David knew this to be true and instructed others through song. In fact, the word "maschil" means "from-prudence" or "from-cautiousness" or "from-good-judgment." Second, there's a REASON for Luke to use the word "ekkleesia" for the congregation of Israel at Mount Sinai! Acts 7:37-38 (KJV) 37 This is that Moses, which said unto the children of Israel, "A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear." (Deut. 18:15) 38 This is he, that was in the church (Greek: ekkleesia) in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sina, and with our fathers: who received the lively oracles (the living words) to give unto us: The Jews don't need to be grafted into the "Church!" They need to be grafted back into the Kingdom of Israel which existed under the reigns of David and Shlomoh (Solomon) and which will exist again under the reign of Yeshua` haMelekh ("Jesus the King"). As far as punishment for the Gentile believers, read on in Romans 11: Romans 11:17-24 (KJV) 17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree; 18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee. 19 Thou wilt say then, "The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in." 20 Well (Good; Okay); because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: 21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. 22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off. (Do you think he didn't mean it?) 23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again (suggesting they were already in the tree once). 24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?

Shalom, Resurrection Priest. Your questions can be answered if you change your view a little on "the day of the Lord." First, the phrase is NOT unique to the day you're talking about. There have been other "days of the LORD." Second, the phrase "the day of the Lord" is different than "the day of the LORD." In Hebrew, "Lord" in the KJV refers to the word "Adonay" and "LORD" refers to the word "YHWH," haShem, the Name! The first refers to "the day of Jesus Christ" or "the day of Yeshua` the Messiah." The second refers to "the day of YHWH" or "the day of God the Father!" Third, "the day of the Lord" is not restricted to a 24-hour period at the end of the Millennium (AND especially NOT the beginning of the "eighth Millennium"). The "sun of righteousness" will shine for a THOUSAND YEARS! Since a year is 365.2422 days, that's a (1000 x 365.2422 x 24)-hour period! Remember: Kefa ("Peter") told us, 2 Peter 3:8-10 (KJV) 8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. 9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. 10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which (Greek: en hee = "in the-[one]") the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. He wasn't saying that "the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up" in a 24-hour period! He was saying that it would happen within a 1000-year period! Specifically, according to Yochanan ("John"), this happens at the END of the 1000-year period, not at the beginning! HaSatan (Hebrew for "the Enemy") must be released from his prison first! Revelation 20:7-10 (KJV) 7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, 8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. 9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them. 10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Shalom, Resurrection Priest. I didn't say that you assumed ON PURPOSE. People FREQUENTLY assume much without realizing that they did so! Please don't take offense; I meant no disrespect. The sky is the "true" Tent? Hmmmm..... Don't mix metaphors.

I don't. Since Yeshua seems to make it pretty clear that the mansions/chambers/rooms etc are being prepared at the Father's house.... John 14:2-3 (NKJV) In My Father's house are many mansions; if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself; that where I am, there you may be also. Shalom, OldCoot. The question is simply this: What KIND of a house is "my Father's house"? Look at Revelation 21:1-4 and then we'll look at those verses in the Greek: Revelation 21:1-4 (KJV) 1 And I saw a new heaven (sky) and a new earth (ground/land): for the first heaven (sky) and the first earth (ground/land) were passed away; and there was no more sea. 2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven (out of the sky; hence, it lands), prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven (out of the throne) saying, "Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God. 4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away." Now, here's the Greek: Apokalupsis Ieesou Christou 21:1-4 1 Kai eidon ouranon kainon kai geen kaineen; ho gar prootos ouranos kai hee prootee gee apeelthan, kai hee thalassa ouk estin eti. 2 Kai teen polin teen hagian Ierousaleem kaineen eidon katabainousan ek tou ouranou apo tou Theou, heetoimasmeneen too andri autees. 3 Kai eekousa foonees megalees ek tou thronou, legousees, "Idou! Hee skeenee tou Theou meta toon anthroopoon, kai skeenoosei met' autoon, kai autoi laoi autou esontai, kai autos ho Theos met' autoon estai, autoon Theos, 4 kai exaleipsei pan dakruon ek toon ofthalmoon autoon, kai ho thanatos ouk estai eti, oute penthos oute kraugee oute ponos ouk estai eti; hoti ta proota apeelthan." 1 Kai = 1 And eidon = I-saw ouranon = a-sky kainon = new kai = and geen = an-earth/land/ground kaineen; = new; ho = the gar = for prootos = first ouranos = sky kai = and hee = the prootee = first gee = earth/land/ground apeelthan, = had-passed-by-and-away kai = and hee = the thalassa = sea ouk = no/not estin = was-there eti. = anymore. 2 Kai = 2 And teen = the polin = city teen = the hagian = holy/clean/singled-out Ierousaleem = Yerushalayim/Jerusalem kaineen = new eidon = I-saw katabainousan = descending/coming-down ek = out tou = of-the ouranou = sky apo = away-from tou = the Theou, = God, heetoimasmeneen =having-been-prepared too = for-the andri = husband autees. = of-her. 3 Kai = 3 And eekousa = I heard foonees = a-voice megalees = loud ek = out tou = of-the thronou, = throne, legousees, = saying, "Idou! = "Look!/Behold! Hee = The skeenee = tabernacle/Bedouin-tent tou = of-the Theou = God meta = with toon = the anthroopoon, = men, kai = and skeenoosei = He-shall-tabernacle/He-shall-tent met' = with autoon, = them, kai = and autoi = they laoi = people autou = of-Him/His esontai, = shall-be, kai = and autos = He ho = the Theos = God met' = with autoon = them estai, = shall-be, autoon = of-them/their Theos, = God, 4 kai = 4 and exaleipsei = He-shall-wipe-away pan = all/every dakruon = teardrop ek = out toon = of-the ofthalmoon = eyes autoon, = of-them/their, kai = and ho = the thanatos = death ouk = no/not estai = shall-be eti, = anymore, oute = neither/nor penthos = mourning oute = neither/nor kraugee = an-outcry oute = neither/nor ponos = hard-labor/toil/suffering ouk = no/not estai = shall-be eti; = anymore; hoti = because ta = the proota = first-things apeelthan." = have-gone-away." And, such a Bedouin tent is seen in Hebrews 11: Hebrews 11:8-10 (KJV) 8 By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went. 9 By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise: 10 For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God. The Greek is... Pros Hebraious 11:8-10 8 Pistei kaloumenos Abraam hupeekousen exelthein eis topon hon eemellen lambanein eis kleeronomian, kai exeelthen mee epistamenos pou erchetai. 9 Pistei parookeesen eis geen tees epaggelias hoos allotrian, en skeenais katoikeesas meta Isaak kai Iakoob toon sugkleeronomoon tees epaggelias tees autees; 10 exedecheto gar teen tous themelious echousan polin, hees technitees kai deemiourgos ho Theos. 8 Pistei = 8 By-faith kaloumenos = being-called Abraam = Avraham/Abraham hupeekousen = obeyed exelthein = to-go-out eis = into topon = a-place hon = that eemellen = he-was-going lambanein = to-receive eis = into kleeronomian, = an-inheritance, kai = and exeelthen = went-out mee = not epistamenos = knowing pou = where erchetai. = he-was-going. 9 Pistei = 9 By-faith parookeesen = he-sojourned eis = into geen = a-land tees = of-the epaggelias = promise hoos = like/as allotrian, = a-foreign-(land) en = in skeenais = Bedouin-tents katoikeesas = to-settle meta = with Isaak = Yitschaq/Isaac kai = and Iakoob = Ya`aqov/Jacob toon = the sugkleeronomoon = joint-heirs tees = of-the epaggelias = promise tees = of-the autees; = same; 10 exedecheto = 10 he-was-awaiting gar = for teen = the tous = the themelious = foundations echousan = having polin, = city, hees = of-that-which technitees = architect kai = and deemiourgos = builder ho = the Theos. = God. So, just as Abraham lived with Isaac and Jabob in a Bedouin tent - their HOUSE, so the New Jerusalem is God's "Bedouin tent" - HIS HOUSE! And, it is THERE that Yeshua` has been building all of us "monai" or "ROOMS," translated as "MANSIONS!" Simply LOOK at the description of the New Jerusalem in Revelation 21 and 22! Don't you think it sounds like how many people say "Heaven" is described? "Pearly gates," "golden streets," "walls of jasper," .... Need we go on? There's no "Heaven"; it's the NEW JERUSALEM that we expect! The 1000-year Messianic Kingdom is when the Messiah reigns as King and King of kings! One of the jobs of being king is to be a JUDGE. Do you really think the King will be idle during that ONE THOUSAND YEARS?! He will be judging THROUGHOUT the Millennium, not just at the end!

Shalom, Sonshine. It's just the beginning of the "Eternal Age" when the New Earth with its New Sky is formed and the New Jerusalem comes down to land upon it. (Revelation 21 and 22).

Shalom, Resurrection Priest. LOL! Sorry for laughing, but you are ASSUMING that one INSTANTLY becomes a king and/or a priest upon resurrection! Do YOU know how to perform the duties of a king or a priest right now? If you don't (and I'm pretty sure you don't), what makes you think we'll be ready immediately after resurrection/transformation? No, these "elders" are those among the children of Israel who already HAD such experience! OR, there are some who will have learning curves before they will be ready to perform their duties. You got it partly correct: The twenty-four elders ARE human beings, freshly resurrected, waiting for the time when they will reign on the earth (as under-kings of the King of kings, Yeshua` haMashiyach haMelekh)! You're also making an assumption that the Greek words "hoo ouranoo" do not mean "the sky" but mean "Heaven."

Even the church fathers of whom you speak lived nearly 100 years after the event at the earliest! And, Dr. Norman Geisler said, And, the historicity of the account in Matthew 27 was his point in the first place! These early "fathers" ("call no man on earth your 'father'") were mere men like the rest of us, and they were GREATLY influenced (as were the Jews) by Greek philosophers like Plato and Socrates and Aristotle. These philosophers were among the first to separate the "soul" from the body. The "soul" being of the spiritual realm being innately good while the body being of the physical realm being essentially bad in the sense that it is mundane and temporary and inferior to the spiritual realm. The adoption of this Greek philosophical Platonism into the Christian faith is what Randy Alcorn called "Christoplatonism." However, a Bible-believing student should not be so gullible. What makes this "Christoplatonism" so superior to simply studying God's Word with respect to the original languages in which the books of the Bible were written? (It's the same question I ask of those who think modern "Science" [falsely so-called] is superior to a position of taking God's Word at face value. Modern "Science" is simply a BELIEF-SYSTEM! a PHILOSOPHY solely based upon a particular INTERPRETATION of the facts!) The simple truth is that "soul," which comes from the Hebrew word "nefesh" or the Greek word "psuchee," simply means an "air-breathing creature." That's hard to picture if one separates that "soul" from the body! That's REALLY EASY to see if one just looks at the definitions of the words in Strong's "Dictionary of the Hebrew and Chaldee Languages."

Shalom, again, JoeMo. No problem. Eliyahuw ("Elijah"), Hanokh ("Enoch"), and Mosheh ("Moses") have all died. NONE OF THEM were translated to "heaven," as a place. The first two were carried off somewhere else to end their existence, and Moses was buried in a secret place. They shall be resurrected at the time when the Messiah returns, just as we. Oh, and in the first post on page 153, which part don't you get?

Shalom, again, JoeMo. He didn't put "mansions for us in heaven"; He put them in the New Jerusalem! And, after the Millennium, the New Jerusalem COMES HERE! See how it works? Please read carefully Revelation 21 and 22. (You might want to lead into it with chapter 20, as well.) Try to read the whole thing in a single sitting; it won't take you long to read 2 (or 3) chapters. To avoid distractions, read them with your family aloud.