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About Retrobyter

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  • Birthday 10/28/1957

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    Wesley Chapel, Florida
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    Computers, Mathematics, Science, Languages (particularly Hebrew and Greek), and above all a correct understanding of G-d's Word.

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  1. Huge ocean inside the earth

    Shalom, Quasar93, and may God bless you in SPITE of the poor teaching you've received. Don't you find it rather odd and disingenuous for "scientific researchers" to come up with dating methods that test in the millions of years when there's no evidence that such millions of years ever existed? As I said to HAZARD just now, "When someone goes LOOKING for a particular answer, he will ALWAYS find it 'right where he thought it was!'" If one is already convinced that the earth has to be millions and billions of years old, he going to find the "evidence" "just as he knew he would!" I've SEEN stalactites growing from old air conditioner window units three and four inches long, like rockhard icicles! Obviously, they couldn't have been older than the AC units themselves, and certainly not older than air conditioning units have been invented! Yet, we are told in almost every cave tour I've taken, "Limestone stalactites form extremely slowly – usually less than 10cm every thousand years." How can they possibly know that if they've not been around for at least a thousand years? Let's see: 10 cm x 1 in / 2.54 cm = 10/2.54 in = 3.937 in. So tell me, how can those stalactites, dripping off limestone rocks above onto the AC window unit and dripping off the bottom of the machine's casing forming these 3-4 in "icicles" possibly be a THOUSAND YEARS OLD?! Obviously not, right? So, there must be some "extenuating circumstances" that change the expected outcome! (Oh, and btw, these stalactites also had button stalagmites growing below them about a third of the stalactite's length.) Evolutionism is a much a matter of FAITH as is Creationism.
  2. Huge ocean inside the earth

    Shalom, HAZARD. You're making some leaps in your conclusions that you don't need to make because you do not yet know the magnitude of a GLOBAL Flood nor the conditions that existed on earth during that interval. One cannot have a GLOBAL Flood in Noach's day without a MASSIVE change in both the terrain of the ENTIRE earth and the severe weather conditions during the years to follow. One cannot have significant changes in water volume and surface area without significant changes in temperature! The jet stream changes ALONE would produce significant weather effects! Evidences that we have found to these extremes in temperature are as follows: Antarctica used to support such flora as palm trees, that were changed to coal and frozen in the ice. The Siberian tundra was home to the mammoths who were knocked to the ground and flash frozen with fresh buttercups still in their mouths. The equatorial countries of Africa, India, and South America are sources of the biggest diamonds that can be found; diamonds are produced by incredible amounts of heat and pressure from carboniferous sources. Secondly, a "demon-like figure?" I guess one sees what one expects to see. To me, it was either a dancer with an outfit that had flaring "wings" off the shoulders, or it was a man sitting in a strangely shaped chair. In either case, it is plain to me that the person has his/her hands folded as if in prayer. Now, I'm not saying that he/she is praying, just that his/her hands are so folded. Thirdly, "These seams were formed when God destroyed the Earth after Satan's rebellion, only God knows how long ago?" Why even go there? There's sufficient upheaval and catastrophic changes in the years that followed the Great Flood of Noach's day to account for the discovery. When someone goes LOOKING for a particular answer, he will ALWAYS find it "right where he thought it was!"
  3. Huge ocean inside the earth

    Shalom, Quasar93. And, they're all WRONG! Sorry, but this is NOT a democratic vote! I really don't care how many "countless others" there are who suggest a very old earth. You said it before: "This matter is of importance not only to evolutionists, but to theistic evolutionists, creationists, and other 'old-Earth creationists.' While a young Earth presents no problem whatsoever for a creationist, it is the death knell to each and every variety of the evolutionary scenario." "First, theistic evolution and progressive creation are impossible if the Earth is young." Well, I hate to break it to you, but the Bible claims "the Earth is young." These are POSITIVE statements not negative! (Actually, I don't "hate" it at all; I RELISH the truth!) Ironically, you quoted Proverbs 8 which is about the origin of WISDOM. God "created" Wisdom before He did anything else in Creation. However, again, there are a few verses that are NOT about the original Creation but the re-making of the environment after the Flood! All the links to different makings and creations within this chapter of Proverbs are about the comparison between that making or creation and that of Wisdom. They are NOT compared to each other! Proverbs 8:25-31 (KJV) 25 Before the mountains were settled, before the hills was I brought forth: 26 While as yet he had not made the earth, nor the fields, nor the highest part of the dust of the world. 27 When he prepared the heavens, I was there: when he set a compass upon the face of the depth: 28 When he established the clouds above: when he strengthened the fountains of the deep: 29 When he gave to the sea his decree, that the waters should not pass his commandment: when he appointed the foundations of the earth: 30 Then I was by him, as one brought up with him: and I was daily his delight, rejoicing always before him; 31 Rejoicing in the habitable part of his earth; and my delights were with the sons of men. The highlighted portions are references to the RE-MAKING of the earth and skies AFTER the Flood, probably borrowed from Psalm 104, which may have been one of David's songs!
  4. Huge ocean inside the earth

    Shalom, Quasar93 (or 92?) Radiochemical dating methods ALL have the same challenges. First, it is ASSUMED at the beginning of a substance's radioactive material is at 100% of what is judged to be the common concentration for that substance, the parent isotope, and that there are NO daughter isotopes present in that substance. That is not only impossible to know, since no one was there to observe the initial amounts, there are many things that could make that different than the average concentration! Since it is indeed an average, there are outliers possible that would significantly change the outcome of the dating calculations. Second, it is assumed that the radioactive material has a particular half-life that has not changed over the time of the material being dated. Frankly, we don't KNOW if conditions could have changed that yield the current half-life limit but were quite different in the past. Third, there is the possibility in some conditions for leeching to occur. "Leeching" is when water or gases may permeate the material and carry some of the radioactive material away, changing the apparent age based on the amount of material left! Fourth, there are LIMITS to how many half-lives are physically measurable. This is one reason why Carbon-14 dating is practically limited to 10,000 years. The formula for any first-order radiochemical dating method is ln(N/N0) = -kt. First, one can use the rules of math and known measured values to determine the half-life for the radioactive chemical in question. By inverting this formula, k = - ln(N/N0) / t, and plugging in for N, N0, and t, one can determine k. Then, one can use this "constant," k, to determine the half life, t1/2 = - ln[(1/2 N0)/N0] / k t1/2 = - ln[N0/(2 N0)] / k t1/2 = -ln(1/2) / k t1/2 = ln 2 / k t1/2 = 0.693 / k. Some values that are commonly accepted are as follows: Uranium-238 has a half-life of 4.47 x 109 years. Tritium has a half-life of 12.3 years. Carbon-14 has a half-life of 5.73 x 103 years. Phosphorus-32 has a half-life of 14.3 days. Cobalt-60 has a half-life of 5.27 years. Iodine-131 has a half-life of 8.04 days, and Plutonium-239 has a half-life of 2.44 x 104 years. U-238 and Pu-239 are commonly used for dating rocks and C-14 is commonly used for dating organic material. Nearer stars can be calculated in distance by parallax of the angles to that star's position over the course of a year, but for more distant objects, the distance is calculated by either a Cepheid Variable star that allows it to be used for distance measurements because its period is related directly to its luminosity, the colors and magnitudes of star types, or by the expanding universe. When it comes to dating distant astrophysical objects, it's done PURELY by red-shift/blue-shift in the spectra of hydrogen and helium found in the corona of stars, based on the spectra that are observed from those stars. In the "expanding universe" theory, the farther stars are moving away from us faster than the nearer stars are. So, based on the Doppler Effect of the frequencies of the spectra, one ESTIMATES the distance and the speed of the objects based on that theory. A blue shift means more energy and therefore an approaching star; a red shift means less energy and therefore a receding star. And, the size of the shift dictates the relative distance from our sun to that star. Now, once again, there was NO "Pre-Adamic Age!" Genesis 1:1 is a SYNOPSIS of what is to follow! The first verse is "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth." Some versions use the singular word "heaven," but the Hebrew word "hashaamayim" is a dual word. These items, the "heavens" and the "earth" were not so named until Day 2 (Gen. 1:8) and Day 3 (Gen. 1:10), respectively! How can God be talking about a previous "heavens and earth" when He doesn't even NAME THEM until later in the Creation Week? THERE IS NO GAP BETWEEN GENESIS 1:1 AND GENESIS 1:2! Secondly, the word "shaamaayim" means "the skies" (specifically, the day sky and the night sky), and the word "erets" means "the land" and may refer to the ground and the dirt from which that ground is made, just as "earth" can refer to the dirt, or the land, or the collection of all lands made from the dirt, the habitable planet! Furthermore, much that is "known" about haSatan is a set of theological conclusions based on spurious interpretations of obscure passages of Scripture, like Isaiah 14 and Ezekiel 28. Although, technically, they are not truly obscure. Isaiah 14 is about the King of Bavel (Babylon), and Ezekiel 28 is about the king of Tsor (Tyre).
  5. Huge ocean inside the earth

    Shalom, Quasar93. We don't HAVE "close, evolutionary cousins." What we DO have are "animals" that have similar designs because we have a common Creator! Tell me, since the "Neanderthal Man" has been found to be an old man with rickets, could you consider that this "new find" might be of the same caliber? And, what method was used to DATE this find? A cave with "cool temperature and HIGH HUMIDITY" would NOT be conducive to Carbon-14 Dating!
  6. Huge ocean inside the earth

    Shalom, Adstar. Okay, you're right. Technically, it is not a "re-baaraa' " ("re-creation"); it's a "re-`aasaah" ("re-making"). The point is that the Flood was the critical moment between "the First Earth and the First Skies" and "the Second Earth and the Second Skies," the First Age and the Second Age.
  7. Huge ocean inside the earth

    Shalom, Quasar93. Just more accomodation of a theory that DOESN'T WORK! I don't really care how much data is collected; it's the INTERPRETATION of that data that is in question! And, LEARN HEBREW from a HEBREW perspective, PLEASE! You don't know what you're talking about when you separate Genesis 1:1 from the rest of the chapter!
  8. Huge ocean inside the earth

    Shalom, Quasar93. So far so good. This is absolutely true. Hmmmm.... The major problem with ANY attempt to accomodate the evolution theory within the Scriptures is the SIN-DEATH relationship. Genesis 3:1-24 (KJV) 1 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, "Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?" 2 And the woman said unto the serpent, "We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden: 3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, 'Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.'" 4 And the serpent said unto the woman, "Ye shall not surely die: 5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil." 6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat. 7 And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons. 8 And they heard the voice of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day: and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God amongst the trees of the garden. 9 And the LORD God called unto Adam, and said unto him, "Where art thou?" 10 And he said, "I heard thy voice in the garden, and I was afraid, because I was naked; and I hid myself." 11 And he said, "Who told thee that thou wast naked? Hast thou eaten of the tree, whereof I commanded thee that thou shouldest not eat?" 12 And the man said, "The woman whom thou gavest to be with me, she gave me of the tree, and I did eat." 13 And the LORD God said unto the woman, "What is this that thou hast done?" And the woman said, "The serpent beguiled me, and I did eat." 14 And the LORD God said unto the serpent, "Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life: 15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel." 16 Unto the woman he said, "I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee." 17 And unto Adam he said, "Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life; 18 Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field; 19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return." 20 And Adam called his wife's name Eve (Hebrew: Chavah = "Life"); because she was the mother of all living. 21 Unto Adam also and to his wife did the LORD God make coats of skins, and clothed them. 22 And the LORD God said, "Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:...." 23 Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken. 24 So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims (Hebrew: KeruViym, plural of KeruV, = ), and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life. Therefore, the origin of sin was the disobedience of Adam, which in turn led to the curse and the resulting death and decay. HOWEVER, the fossil record is NOTHING BUT death and decay! If the earth has been around 4.6 billion years, then you have death and decay PRIOR TO its cause! If the Curse originated on this earth with the sin of the first Man, how does one justify 4.6 billion years of death and decay?
  9. Huge ocean inside the earth

    Shalom, Adstar. Yes, that's a good usage. I feared Quasar saying it, though, since he believes in TWO floods: that of Genesis 7-9 and a "secret flood" between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2. Another passage of Scripture to note is Psalm 104: Psalm 104:1-35 (KJV) 1 Bless the LORD, O my soul. O LORD my God, thou art very great; thou art clothed with honour and majesty. 2 Who coverest thyself with light as with a garment: who stretchest out the heavens (the skies) like a curtain: 3 Who layeth the beams of his chambers in the waters: who maketh the clouds his chariot: who walketh upon the wings of the wind: 4 Who maketh his angels (messengers) spirits (winds); his ministers (servants) a flaming fire: 5 Who laid the foundations of the earth, that it should not be removed for ever. 6 Thou coveredst it with the deep as with a garment: the waters stood above the mountains. 7 At thy rebuke they fled; at the voice of thy thunder they hasted away. 8 They go up by the mountains; they go down by the valleys unto the place which thou hast founded for them. 9 Thou hast set a bound that they may not pass over; that they turn not again to cover the earth. 10 He sendeth the springs into the valleys, which run among the hills. 11 They give drink to every beast of the field: the wild asses quench their thirst. 12 By them shall the fowls of the heaven have their habitation, which sing among the branches. 13 He watereth the hills from his chambers: the earth is satisfied with the fruit of thy works. 14 He causeth the grass to grow for the cattle, and herb for the service of man: that he may bring forth food out of the earth; 15 And wine that maketh glad the heart of man, and oil to make his face to shine, and bread which strengtheneth man's heart. 16 The trees of the LORD are full of sap; the cedars of Lebanon, which he hath planted; 17 Where the birds make their nests: as for the stork, the fir trees are her house. 18 The high hills are a refuge for the wild goats; and the rocks for the conies. 19 He appointed the moon for seasons: the sun knoweth his going down. 20 Thou makest darkness, and it is night: wherein all the beasts of the forest do creep forth. 21 The young lions roar after their prey, and seek their meat from God. 22 The sun ariseth, they gather themselves together, and lay them down in their dens. 23 Man goeth forth unto his work and to his labour until the evening. 24 O LORD, how manifold are thy works! in wisdom hast thou made them all: the earth is full of thy riches. 25 So is this great and wide sea, wherein are things creeping innumerable, both small and great beasts. 26 There go the ships: there is that leviathan, whom thou hast made to play therein. 27 These wait all upon thee; that thou mayest give them their meat in due season. 28 That thou givest them they gather: thou openest thine hand, they are filled with good. 29 Thou hidest thy face, they are troubled: thou takest away their breath, they die, and return to their dust. 30 Thou sendest forth thy spirit, they are created: and thou renewest the face of the earth. 31 The glory of the LORD shall endure for ever: the LORD shall rejoice in his works. 32 He looketh on the earth, and it trembleth: he toucheth the hills, and they smoke. 33 I will sing unto the LORD as long as I live: I will sing praise to my God while I have my being. 34 My meditation of him shall be sweet: I will be glad in the LORD. 35 Let the sinners be consumed out of the earth, and let the wicked be no more. Bless thou the LORD, O my soul. Praise ye the LORD. This is a song about the RE-CREATION after the Flood of Noach's day. Consider the clues: There were no clouds before the Flood, only the mist that would rise during the day: Genesis 2:4-6 (KJV) 4 These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens, 5 And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the LORD God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was not a man to till the ground. 6 But there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground. God "laid the foundations of the earth, that it should not be removed for ever." But, unless I'm mistaken, the "foundations of the earth" WERE "removed" at the beginning of the Flood! HUGE upheavals of the earth's crust were part of the disaster. "The waters stood above the mountains." Yep. That's a flood. It says in Genesis 7: Genesis 7:19-20 (KJV) 19 And the waters prevailed exceedingly upon the earth; and all the high hills, that were under the whole heaven, were covered. 20 Fifteen cubits upward did the waters prevail; and the mountains were covered. "At the voice of thy thunder they (the waters) hasted away." Thunder is a direct reaction of lightning. The thunder clap is the air coming back together after the lightning has separated the air molecules, like a sonic boom! And, lightning is the DIRECT RESULT of the static electricity build-up from falling water. "They go up by the mountains; they go down by the valleys..." Literally, the Hebrew says "the mountains rise; the valley sink...." The weight of the water literally forced the valleys to sink under its weight, and like a see-saw, to keep the pressure in the rock at a faily constant amount, the nearby mountains were forced to rise. Verse 9 is talking about the continental shelves. The "bound that they (the waters) may not pass over; that they turn not again to cover the earth." Then, the song talks about the water cycle and the life and bounty that comes from the waters.
  10. Huge ocean inside the earth

    This is nothing fantastic or new. "Water seeks its own level." That has ALWAYS been true, and as a liquid, "it takes the shape of whatever container into which it's put." (That's also true for a gas, like water vapor.) So, if there's a significant fissure cool enough in the rock, it will find its way down. We would have a similar "ocean" under this continent in Yellowstone if it weren't being released as the hot water and steam of geysers all the time. What does that mean theologically? NOTHING.
  11. Did Christ suffer the second death for us?

    Shalom, frienduff thaylorde. He didn't VISIT the Lake of Fire and Sulfur (or the Lake of Burning Sulfur), but He DID suffer the PAINS of that Second Death. More awful than the fires one will face in the Lake of Fire is the ETERNAL SUFFERING OF BEING SEPARATED FROM GOD'S FELLOWSHIP! THAT'S what Yeshua` suffered on the cross. While He didn't have to suffer it for eternity - infinite time, He had to suffer it as God - infinite in ALL OTHER virtuous aspects! "Visiting hell," as you put it, was nothing by comparison. Also, don't think that He had to "suffer the flames of hell," either. That's NOT what happened. How do I know this? Simple. He had already marked the "sin" that He carried to the cross as "PAID IN FULL." (Greek: Tetelestai! = "It is finished!" or "It has been finished!") There was no further need for Him to suffer.
  12. Did Christ suffer the second death for us?

    Shalom, shiloh357. Yeah, I know that. He didn't die for HIS sin, but He did die AS "sin." (I fully intended to use these quotation marks.) When God looked at His Son on the cross, He didn't see His Son; He saw "SIN!" That's how God could pour out His wrath against sin on His Son! Once that was accomplished, now He is free to look at us (if we've repented of our sins and traded places with Him) and see His Son's "Righteousness," instead. That's also an "imputed Righteousness." God CALLS us "Righteousness," even though we aren't righteous, just as He CALLED the Messiah "Sin," even though He wasn't sinful. That's the best I can do to explain it.
  13. The Times of the Gentiles...Luke 21: 20-28

    Shabbat shalom, wingnut-. Sorry this is late in coming, but I had a good post going and LOST it thanks to "Worthy Ministries / What is a Christian?" popping up when I was trying to click on the "B" for Bold-facing. When that happens, sometimes I can back out of it with my post intact, but often I lose the post entirely and have to start from scratch. It's REALLY annoying. I hope I can remember everything I wrote to you before. Anyway, let me start by saying I love you, brother. That's why I spend so much time talking to you about these matters. Now, let me ask you: Wasn't David a man of God? Wasn't Eliyahuw (Elijah) a man of God? Wasn't Yesha`yahuw (Isaiah) a man of God? Weren't some of the other, lesser names in the Old Testament, like Mikhaah (Micah), Aharown (Aaron), and even Mosheh (Moses) men of God? Would you really PRESUME to speak for God in saying that "only Jesus can make people pure or white?" (I really don't think you would presume to do any such thing.) It is GOD who justifies! What does God Himself say? Isaiah 1:10-20 (KJV) 10 Hear the word of the LORD, ye rulers of Sodom; give ear unto the law of our God, ye people of Gomorrah. 11 To what purpose is the multitude of your sacrifices unto me? saith the LORD: I am full of the burnt offerings of rams, and the fat of fed beasts; and I delight not in the blood of bullocks, or of lambs, or of he goats. 12 When ye come to appear before me, who hath required this at your hand, to tread my courts? 13 Bring no more vain oblations; incense is an abomination unto me; the new moons and sabbaths, the calling of assemblies, I cannot away with; it is iniquity, even the solemn meeting. 14 Your new moons and your appointed feasts my soul hateth: they are a trouble unto me; I am weary to bear them. 15And when ye spread forth your hands, I will hide mine eyes from you: yea, when ye make many prayers, I will not hear: your hands are full of blood. 16Wash you, make you clean; put away the evil of your doings from before mine eyes; cease to do evil; 17Learn to do well; seek judgment, relieve the oppressed, judge the fatherless, plead for the widow. 18Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool. 19If ye be willing and obedient, ye shall eat the good of the land: 20But if ye refuse and rebel, ye shall be devoured with the sword: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it. Do you think that David was just "keeping the Law?" Psalm 130:1-8 (KJV) 1 {A Song of degrees.} Out of the depths have I cried unto thee, O LORD. 2 Lord, hear my voice: let thine ears be attentive to the voice of my supplications. 3 If thou, LORD, shouldest mark iniquities, O Lord, who shall stand? 4 But there is forgiveness with thee, that thou mayest be feared. 5 I wait for the LORD, my soul doth wait, and in his word do I hope. 6 My soul waiteth for the Lord more than they that watch for the morning: I say, more than they that watch for the morning. 7 Let Israel hope in the LORD: for with the LORD there is mercy, and with him is plenteous redemption. 8 And he shall redeem Israel from all his iniquities. What did Mikhaah say? Micah 6:6-8 (KJV) 6 Wherewith shall I come before the LORD, and bow myself before the high God? shall I come before him with burnt offerings, with calves of a year old? 7 Will the LORD be pleased with thousands of rams, or with ten thousands of rivers of oil? shall I give my firstborn for my transgression, the fruit of my body for the sin of my soul? 8 He hath shewed thee, O man, what is good; and what doth the LORD require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God? What did Paul say in Romans? Romans 4:1-12 (KJV) 1 What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found? 2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God. 3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness (Genesis 15:6). 4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. 5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. 6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works, 7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered. 8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin (Psalm 32:1-2). 9 Cometh this blessedness then upon the circumcision only, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness. 10 How was it then reckoned? when he was in circumcision, or in uncircumcision? Not in circumcision, but in uncircumcision. 11 And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also: 12 And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which he had being yet uncircumcised. When were these things said? Genesis 15:1-7 (KJV) 1 After these things the word of the LORD came unto Abram in a vision, saying, Fear not, Abram: I am thy shield, and thy exceeding great reward. 2 And Abram said, Lord GOD, what wilt thou give me, seeing I go childless, and the steward of my house is this Eliezer of Damascus? 3 And Abram said, Behold, to me thou hast given no seed: and, lo, one born in my house is mine heir. 4 And, behold, the word of the LORD came unto him, saying, This shall not be thine heir; but he that shall come forth out of thine own bowels shall be thine heir. 5 And he brought him forth abroad, and said, Look now toward heaven, and tell the stars, if thou be able to number them: and he said unto him, So shall thy seed be. 6 And he believed in the LORD; and he counted it to him for righteousness. 7 And he said unto him, I am the LORD that brought thee out of Ur of the Chaldees, to give thee this land to inherit it. and, Psalm 32:1-2 (KJV) 1{A Psalm of David, Maschil.} Blessed is he whose transgression is forgiven, whose sin is covered. 2Blessed is the man unto whom the LORD imputeth not iniquity, and in whose spirit there is no guile. Do either of these sound like people being justified by the deeds of the Law? Paul said it best to the Galatians: Galatians 3:6-22 (KJV) 6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness. 7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham. 8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed. 9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham. 10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them. 11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith. 12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them. 13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree: 14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith. 15 Brethren, I speak after the manner of men; Though it be but a man's covenant, yet if it beconfirmed, no man disannulleth, or addeth thereto. 16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ. 17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect. 18 For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise. 19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator. 20 Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one. 21 Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law. 22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe. There's no difference between the OT saints and the NT ones. NONE were justified by God through the works of the Law. ALL were justified by God through FAITH! No, the "time of the end" is not the same as "the end of time." As said above, "The words 'until the time of the end' refer to the end of this second period of Jewish sovereignty." They do NOT refer to "the end of time!" This is talking about the PURIFICATION OF THE TEMPLE, the articles within the Temple, and the people who do the service of the Temple. These had to undergo the purification rituals and God EXTENDED the oil to keep the lamp lit for eight days beyond what it should have been able to fuel. Thus, the holiday of Chanukkah was started in commemoration of God's miraculous power. No, you took what I said the wrong way. I'm only suggesting that you understand that our OT brothers and sisters were just that: BROTHERS and SISTERS! Don't condemn them for being born too early! (sigh.) This post isn't as good as the original, but I hope you can glean something good from it.
  14. No, animals don't have "souls"; they ARE "souls," just like we people ARE "souls." The Hebrew word translated "soul" in Genesis 2:7 is "nefesh," coming from the verb form "naafash." 5315 nefesh (neh'-fesh). From naafash; properly, a breathing creature, i.e. Animal of (abstractly) vitality; used very widely in a literal, accommodated or figurative sense (bodily or mental) -- any, appetite, beast, body, breath, creature, X dead(-ly), desire, X (dis-)contented, X fish, ghost, + greedy, he, heart(-y), (hath, X jeopardy of) life (X in jeopardy), lust, man, me, mind, mortally, one, own, person, pleasure, (her-, him-, my-, thy-)self, them (your)-selves, + slay, soul, + tablet, they, thing, (X she) will, X would have it. 5314 naafash (naw-fash'). A primitive root; to breathe; passively, to be breathed upon, i.e. (figuratively) refreshed (as if by a current of air) -- (be) refresh selves (-ed). Genesis 2:7 (KJV) 7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul (Hebrew: nefesh). It does NOT say that the LORD God formed the BODY of a man from the dust of the ground; He formed the MAN! That means that the man IS a breathing body! This confusion of the word "soul" has led to the teaching you have received in this thread up to this point. YES! Animals ARE souls; they ARE breathing creatures. The word "nefesh" is used for animals as well as for people. They do not, however, "go to heaven." But then, neither do we. (Shhh! That's a secret!) We don't go to heaven; we go to the grave and "sleep." When the Lord Yeshua` ("Jesus") returns, He will wake us up and RESURRECT us! After the beginning of His Kingdom has been around for a thousand years, the earth itself will be re-created, and with it, all life, as well! The New Earth will be our eternal home and the animals that you have loved shall be resurrected, as well, and ... why not? If God will resurrect redeemed SINNERS who have disobeyed God in the past, why wouldn't He resurrect innocent animals, especially if they were important to us whom He loves? I'm old enough to have buried several dogs and bunnies in our back yard. (Cats were always too independent for me. There were only 2 cats who were sweet to us, my wife's cat Misty, whom she left with her parents when we married, and a cat we owned together after we were married, Beth, whom we gave to friends who had a large farm where she could hunt and have her litters.) I am CONFIDENT that we will see our animals alive and well again on the New Earth. After all, they were GOD'S creatures first! HE gave them their personalities! The Resurrection will be an act of Creation. Some bodies are so decayed that they could NEVER be resuscitated in their current condition; therefore, a true Resurrection CERTAINLY involves God's Creative power, and we are promised such a resurrection in 1 Corinthians 15.
  15. The Times of the Gentiles...Luke 21: 20-28

    Shabbat shalom, wingnut-. You're quite right. On the other hand, there WERE breaks in thought just the same. When chapter divisions were instituted, they gave SOME consideration to these breaks in thought and tried to adhere to them with the chapter divisions, although they were only human and made mistakes along the way. For instance, look at the beginning of Daniel 9: Daniel 9:1-6 (KJV) 1 In the first year of Darius the son of Ahasuerus, of the seed of the Medes, which was made king over the realm of the Chaldeans; 2 In the first year of his reign I Daniel understood by books the number of the years, whereof the word of the LORD came to Jeremiah the prophet, that he would accomplish seventy years in the desolations of Jerusalem. 3 And I set my face unto the Lord God, to seek by prayer and supplications, with fasting, and sackcloth, and ashes: 4 And I prayed unto the LORD my God, and made my confession, and said, O Lord, the great and dreadful God, keeping the covenant and mercy to them that love him, and to them that keep his commandments; 5 We have sinned, and have committed iniquity, and have done wickedly, and have rebelled, even by departing from thy precepts and from thy judgments: 6 Neither have we hearkened unto thy servants the prophets, which spake in thy name to our kings, our princes, and our fathers, and to all the people of the land. Daniel is showing a definite break in thought from chapter 8 by introducing a different time period and a new subject. Thus, many accept the chapter division without argument. The same is true for the end of chapter 9 and the beginning of chapter 10 - new thought: Daniel 10:1-2 (KJV) 1 In the third year of Cyrus king of Persia a thing was revealed unto Daniel, whose name was called Belteshazzar; and the thing was true, but the time appointed was long: and he understood the thing, and had understanding of the vision. 2 In those days I Daniel was mourning three full weeks. Again, a new time period and a new subject. However, between chapters 11 and 12, no such definite break can be found. Indeed, the only apparent reason for a break is to keep the length of chapter 11 limited. Good job! Again, I am in full agreement with you that "none of this [11:36] is true of Antiochus IV." Well said. HOWEVER, chapter 11 is NOT "all about Antiochus IV." Looking at the timing of verses 29 through 35, we are definitely NOT looking at the same person in verse 36 and following! But, why do we have to jump a gap of 2200 years?! No, there's another who came on the scene shortly after the Hasmonean dynasty when Rome took over control of the Land from the Seleucid Empire. It was the Idumean, Herod the Great, the Roman client king who was installed by Caesar Augustus, who succeeded Antigonas II Mattathias the Hasmonean as "king of Judaea." These verses fit Herod the Great very well! He was the one who defied the God of Israel, the One beloved by women who hoped to be the bearer of the Messiah, by killing all the male babies 2 years old and younger! No, I don't! The break in thought doesn't occur until between 12:3 and 12:4! Verse 31 IS, however, talking about Antiochus IV. In verses 12:9 through 13 he is talking to Daniel regarding the imminent fulfillments coming, closer to His own time period. This gives details regarding Antiochus IV again. He ends with the promise that, after Daniel's death, he shall be resurrected. No, 1335 days after the desecration of the Temple, was the time that the Temple was finally PURIFIED! It was the time when the eight days of Chanukkah were experienced! For eight days, God extended the amount of "oil in the cruise," keeping the lamp burning, until the ritual of purification could be completed! That you don't know this only serves to prove that you were never taught your Jewish heritage. No, you didn't follow the reading correctly. He doesn't equate the "1335 days later" with "Daniel standing in his allotted place!" You're "mixing apples and oranges." What he said was, 12 Blessed is he who waits and arrives at the 1,335 days. 13 But go your way till the end. And you shall rest and shall stand in your allotted place at the end of the days. A new thought is introduced in verse 13, and Daniel is told to follow his path to the end of his life. He would "rest," that is "sleep" in death, and "shall stand in his allotted place," that is, be resurrected and restored, "at the end of the days," referring back to 12:2-3. No, I agree. None of that "days to years" nonsense has any merit. I don't do "magic numbers." First, Antiochus IV wouldn't have to be physically IN Jerusalem to have things done in Jerusalem. He was, after all, the reigning king of Judaea under his Seleucid Empire. Second, fit your facts in with these: (See more at HereALittleThereALittle.net.) As a matter of fact, you may have to go back in Daniel 11 farther to see how Jason and Menelaus fit into Antiochus' regime. I TRULY hope this helps you see the bigger picture of history.