Retrobyter

Shabbat shalom, again, @Cntrysner. Regarding Ephesians 2:6, it's been erroneously translated many times, and we should take a very close look at it in light of the Greek: First, here's the King James translation within the context: Ephesians 2:1-10 (KJV) 1 And you [hath he quickened], who were dead in trespasses and sins; 2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience: 3 Among whom also we all had our conversation (lifestyle) in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others. 4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, 5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us (has made us alive) together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;) 6 And hath raised [us] up together, and made [us] sit together in heavenly [places] in Christ Jesus: 7 That IN THE AGES TO COME he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in [his] kindness toward us through Christ Jesus. 8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them. Now, let's look at the Greek: 1 Καὶ ὑμᾶς ὄντας νεκροὺς τοῖς παραπτώμασιν καὶ ταῖς ἁμαρτίαις 2 ἐν αἷς ποτε περιεπατήσατε κατὰ τὸν αἰῶνα τοῦ κόσμου τούτου κατὰ τὸν ἄρχοντα τῆς ἐξουσίας τοῦ ἀέρος τοῦ πνεύματος τοῦ νῦν ἐνεργοῦντος ἐν τοῖς υἱοῖς τῆς ἀπειθείας· 3 ἐν οἷς καὶ ἡμεῖς πάντες ἀνεστράφημέν ποτε ἐν ταῖς ἐπιθυμίαις τῆς σαρκὸς ἡμῶν ποιοῦντες τὰ θελήματα τῆς σαρκὸς καὶ τῶν διανοιῶν καὶ ἤμεν τέκνα φύσει ὀργῆς ὡς καὶ οἱ λοιποί· 4 ὁ δὲ θεὸς πλούσιος ὢν ἐν ἐλέει διὰ τὴν πολλὴν ἀγάπην αὐτοῦ ἣν ἠγάπησεν ἡμᾶς 5 καὶ ὄντας ἡμᾶς νεκροὺς τοῖς παραπτώμασιν συνεζωοποίησεν τῷ Χριστῷ χάριτί ἐστε σεσῳσμένοι 6 καὶ συνήγειρεν καὶ συνεκάθισεν ἐν τοῖς ἐπουρανίοις ἐν Χριστῷ Ἰησοῦ 7 ἵνα ἐνδείξηται ἐν τοῖς αἰῶσιν τοῖς ἐπερχομένοις τὸν ὑπερβάλλοντα πλοῦτον τῆς χάριτος αὐτοῦ ἐν χρηστότητι ἐφ᾽ ἡμᾶς ἐν Χριστῷ Ἰησοῦ 8 τῇ γὰρ χάριτί ἐστε σεσῳσμένοι διὰ τῆς πίστεως· καὶ τοῦτο οὐκ ἐξ ὑμῶν θεοῦ τὸ δῶρον· 9 οὐκ ἐξ ἔργων ἵνα μή τις καυχήσηται 10 αὐτοῦ γάρ ἐσμεν ποίημα κτισθέντες ἐν Χριστῷ Ἰησοῦ ἐπὶ ἔργοις ἀγαθοῖς οἷς προητοίμασεν ὁ θεὸς ἵνα ἐν αὐτοῖς περιπατήσωμεν. Verses 6 and 7 are transliterated as .... 6 kai suneegeiren kai sunekathisen en tois epouraniois en Christoo Ieesou 7 hina endeixeetai en tois aioosin tois eperchomenois ton huperballonta plouton tees charitos autou en chreestoteeti ef' heemas en Christoo Ieesou And this is translated word-for-word into English as ... 6 And He-raised-[us]-up-together and made-[us]-sit-together in the [places]-above-the-skies in Messiah Yeeshuwa` 7 so-that He-might-show in the ages the-ones that-are-coming the over-shooting riches of the grace of-Him in kindness upon us in Messiah Yeeshuwa` We're not already there physically in "the places above the skies," except in the Person of the Messiah Yeeshuwa` who is there physically NOW! Rather, "IN THE AGES THAT ARE COMING" He will show the abundant riches of His grace in kindness upon us in the Messiah Yeeshuwa`.

Shalom, Cntrysner. I agree; we SHOULD listen to what Yeeshuwa` said, and the LAST THINGS He said were these: Matthew 28:18-20 (KJV) 18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, "All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. 19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: 20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world." Amen. You HAVE ADMITTED that the disciples - the apostles (sent ones) - could not do what Yeeshuwa` did; therefore, this is a WATER baptism! The word "baptizing" above is the Greek word is "βαπτίζοντες" which means "submerging" or "dunking" them! And, prior to this, the disciples were doing just what John had been doing: John 3:22-24 (KJV) 22 After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judaea; and there he tarried with them, and baptized. 23 And John also was baptizing in AEnon near to Salim, because there was much water there: and they came, and were baptized. 24 For John was not yet cast into prison. John 4:1-3 (KJV) 1 When therefore the Lord knew how the Pharisees had heard that Jesus made and baptized more disciples than John, 2 (Though Jesus himself baptized not, but his disciples,) 3 He left Judaea, and departed again into Galilee. Then, we read this: Acts 16:14-34 (KJV) 14 And a certain woman named Lydia, a seller of purple, of the city of Thyatira, which worshipped God, heard us: whose heart the Lord opened, that she attended unto the things which were spoken of Paul. 15 And when she was baptized, and her household, she besought us, saying, "If ye have judged me to be faithful to the Lord, come into my house, and abide there." And she constrained us. 16 And it came to pass, as we went to prayer, a certain damsel possessed with a spirit of divination met us, which brought her masters much gain by soothsaying: 17 The same followed Paul and us, and cried, saying, "These men are the servants of the most high God, which shew unto us the way of salvation." 18 And this did she many days. But Paul, being grieved, turned and said to the spirit, "I command thee in the name of Jesus Christ to come out of her!" And he came out the same hour. 19 And when her masters saw that the hope of their gains was gone, they caught Paul and Silas, and drew them into the marketplace unto the rulers, 20 And brought them to the magistrates, saying, "These men, being Jews, do exceedingly trouble our city, 21 And teach customs, which are not lawful for us to receive, neither to observe, being Romans!" 22 And the multitude rose up together against them: and the magistrates rent (tore) off their clothes, and commanded to beat them. 23 And when they had laid many stripes upon them, they cast them into prison, charging the jailor to keep them safely: 24 Who, having received such a charge, thrust them into the inner prison, and made their feet fast in the stocks. 25 And at midnight Paul and Silas prayed, and sang praises unto God: and the prisoners heard them. 26 And suddenly there was a great earthquake, so that the foundations of the prison were shaken: and immediately all the doors were opened, and every one's bands were loosed. 27 And the keeper of the prison awaking out of his sleep, and seeing the prison doors open, he drew out his sword, and would have killed himself, supposing that the prisoners had been fled. 28 But Paul cried with a loud voice, saying, "Do thyself no harm: for we are all here." 29 Then he called for a light, and sprang in, and came trembling, and fell down before Paul and Silas, 30 And brought them out, and said, "Sirs, what must I do to be saved?" 31And they said, "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house." 32 And they spake unto him the word of the Lord, and to all that were in his house. 33 And he took them the same hour of the night, and washed their stripes; and was baptized, he and all his, straightway. 34 And when he had brought them into his house, he set meat before them, and rejoiced, believing in God with all his house. Now, I agree that God does indeed immerse us in His Ruwach haQodesh - His Holy Spirit - for His Son's sake, but we should not neglect the OTHER SIDE OF THE SAME COIN, namely, that Yeeshuwa` said to baptize with water - IMMERSE them IN WATER, as well. We baptize with water - not for the redemption itself - but because Yeeshuwa` TOLD us to do so and for a clean consciencce before Him.

Shalom, @JoeCanada. Okay, I'm going to quote your original post, but I need to be able to break it apart to insert my additions. I don't know what is different, but I can't just break it with a well-positioned [RETURN]; so, it's going to require making quotes and cutting/pasting your stuff into those new quotes. And, in fair warning, this is going to be a long post. Just sayin'. First, Christians have been making a LOT of assumptions down through the last millennium! Some are not too bad; others are disasterous! IMO, one should DROP the "pre-trib," "pre-wrath," and "post-trib" labels and just start with the Scriptures. Come to RIGHT conclusions from Scriptures and let the chips fall where they may! Let's start with a proper understanding of 2 Peter 1:20-21: In the King James Version, this reads, 20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. 21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost. Here's the Greek of these two verses: 20 τοῦτο πρῶτον γινώσκοντες ὅτι πᾶσα προφητεία γραφῆς ἰδίας ἐπιλύσεως οὐ γίνεται· 21 οὐ γὰρ θελήματι ἀνθρώπου ἠνέχθη ποτέ προφητεία ἀλλ᾽ ὑπὸ πνεύματος ἁγίου φερόμενοι ἐλάλησαν οἱ ἅγιοι θεοῦ ἄνθρωποι Transliterated, we get: 20 touto prooton ginooskontes hoti pasa profeeteia grafees idias epiluseoos ou ginetai; 21 ou gar theleemati anthroopou eenechthee pote profeeteia, all' hupo Pneumatos Hagiou feromenoi elaleesan hoi hagioi Theou anthroopoi. Translated word for word, we get: 20 this first knowing that any prophecy of-writing/Scripture of-its-own interpretation not is. 21 not for by-will of-a-man was-brought once/ever a-prophecy, but under Spirit of-Holy being-carried spoke of-the holy of-God men. In American English, we would write: 20 knowing this first, that any prophecy of Scripture is not of its own interpretation. 21 For a prophecy was not ever brought by [the] will of a man, but being carried under [the] Spirit of [the] Holy, men of the Holy God spoke. I've heard a MULTITUDE of misinterpretations of these two verses; so, we needed to clear this up first: This is NOT saying that a person can't understand the Scriptures on his or her own! Peter is telling us that the Scriptures which contain prophecy do not stand alone. They ALL come from men under the "inspiration" of the Holy God through His Holy Spirit. And, therefore, they do NOT stand alone! All the Scriptures that contain prophecy are interrelated because there is only ONE GOD! Therefore, we can also conclude from these verses that there are NO CONTRADICTIONS among all thr prophecies of Scripture. I agree with you that there is a difference between a return and a coming, and you are right that Matthew 24:29-31 describes the Second Coming of our Master Yeeshuwa` haMaashiyach 'Elohiym (our Lord Jesus the Christ or the Messiah of God). Have you ever looked up the word "shekinah?" It comes from the Hebrew word שָׁכַן transliterated as "shaakhan" (H7931) which means "abide; lodge; reside; or permanently stay." The word for "glory" in Hebrew is כָּבוֹד transliterated as "kaaVowd" (H3519). It means "to be heavy, weighty." Since it can also be talking about the "weight" of gold and silver, it is about BEING VALUED or VALUABLE. However, the word "glory" in Greek is δόξα transliterated as "doxa" which means "very apparent" like a wealthy person among the simple or like a bright white light among the darkness of space. Thus, it can mean "splendor, brightness." "Heaven" is from "Old English heofon, of Germanic origin; related to Dutch hemel and German Himmel." It's secondary meaning today is actually its original meaning and its historically primary meaning: "2 (often heavens) literary 'the sky,' especially perceived as a vault in which the sun, moon, stars, and planets are situated: Galileo used a telescope to observe the heavens." The same is true for the Greek word "οὐρανός" transliterated as "ouranos." It means "the sky." It is the root and primary component of μεσουράνημα transliterated as "mesouraneema" which means "mid-sky" where the fowl of the air fly (Rev. 19:17). All of these Greek words are found in Matthew 24:30! With these translations in verse 30, we will read it as: Matthew 24:30 (KJV with alterations) 29 "Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from the sky, and the powers of the skies shall be shaken: 30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in the sky: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of the sky with power and great brightness. 31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other." THIS is what the Greek is telling us: It's not saying that Yeeshuwa` will come "from heaven"; it's saying that He will come "from the sky!" This may seem trivial, but it is FUNDAMENTAL to the understanding of how the Second Coming will occur. When "stars fall out of the sky" they are called "meteors." When "stars fall out of the sky to the earth," they are called "meteorites." Mark's account also clears up "from one end of the sky to the other": Mark 13:24-27 (KJV with alterations) 24 "But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, 25 And the stars of the sky shall fall, and the powers that are in the sky shall be shaken. 26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory. 27 And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of the sky." This means "from the lowest point of the earth to the highest point of the sky"; so, "from one end of the sky to the other" would be VERTICALLY! "from the lowest point of the sky to the highest point." Neither Matthew's account nor Mark's nor Luke's says that He comes "upon his throne!" As a matter of fact, in Matthew's account Yeeshuwa` later says, Matthew 25:31 (KJV) 31 "When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:" This means that after He has arrived, He will take up His role as the King of Jews (and later as the King of all Israel) and begin His reign. *** Revelation 19:11 reads differently. Here's the Greek: 11 Καὶ εἶδον τὸν οὐρανὸν ἀνεῳγμένον, καὶ ἰδού, ἵππος λευκός καὶ ὁ καθήμενος ἐπ᾽ αὐτὸν καλούμενος πιστὸς καὶ ἀληθινός καὶ ἐν δικαιοσύνῃκρίνει καὶ πολεμεῖ This transliterates to ... 11 Kai eidon ton ouranon aneoogmenon, kai idou, hippos leukos kai ho katheemenos ep' auton kaloumenos pistos kai aleethinos kai en dikaiosunee krinei kai polemei Word for word, this translates to ... 11 And I-saw the sky opened-upward, and look!, a-horse white and the-[One] sitting upon it was-called "Faithful (Consistent) and True (Reliable)" and in righteousness/justice he-will-judge and he-will-wage-war Note that it does NOT say that He comes "from heaven" nor does it even say that He comes "from the sky!" How does a HORSE FLY?! No, the SKY BREAKS and He comes riding to the rescue! It's rather like Gandalf riding upon Shadowfax appearing on the mountain top as the sun rises above the battle below, in the movie "The Lord of the Rings: the Two Towers," when He arrives to save Theoden, Aragorn, Legolas, Gimli, and all those with them in the Hornburg! That's how it will be when the Lord Yeeshuwa` the Messiah of God returns to fight! I'm going to finish up my comments at this point and just end with this: Many have a messed up view on the TIMING within the events of the Revelation. Just know this: Yeeshuwa` is not coming to "DESTROY THE EARTH"; He is coming TO BEGIN HIS REIGN UPON THE EARTH!

Shalom, choir loft. Actually, the Tribulation is already happening. It's been happening since the First Century A.D! And, this is a problem. One should NOT link the "Tribulation" with the Last Week of Daniel 9. That's wrong. I know it's "almost universally interpreted" that way, but it messes up one's understanding of Daniel 9:27 (and 26)! The MESSIAH is the one who fulfilled the prophecies of Daniel 9:27! First, look at the verses again: Daniel 9:24-27 (KJV) 24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, (1) to finish the transgression, and (2) to make an end of sins, and (3) to make reconciliation for iniquity, and (4) to bring in everlasting righteousness, and (5) to seal up the vision and prophecy, and (6) to anoint the most Holy. 25 Know therefore and understand, [that] from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince [shall be] seven weeks (7 x 7 = 49), and threescore and two weeks (62 x 7 = 434): the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times. 26 And after threescore and two weeks (> 62 x 7 = > 434) shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people (Romans) of the prince that shall come (Titus) shall destroy the city and the sanctuary (70 A.D.); and the end thereof [shall be] with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. 27 And he (the Messiah) shall confirm the (Davidic) covenant with many for one week (1 x 7 = 7): and in the midst of the week (1/2 x 7 = 3-1/2) he (the Messiah) shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he (the Messiah) shall make [it] desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate. But, people don't read it this way. However, the subject of the verbs in 9:27 must go back to the closest masculine singular noun in the passage that is NOT in a Hebrew noun construct state (or in English, the object of a prepositional phrase). Thus, the "he" in verse 27 CANNOT be referring to the "prince that shall come." So, equating "the prince that shall come" to the "he" in verse 27 is the major, critical error that most make. Here's how the SCRIPTURES fulfill each of these predicates: 27 AND HE (THE MESSIAH) SHALL CONFIRM THE (DAVIDIC) COVENANT WITH MANY FOR ONE WEEK (1 X 7 = 7): ... Look at how David was anointed by Judah and Israel in becoming king: 2 Samuel 2:1-11 (KJV) 1 And it came to pass after this, that David inquired of the LORD, saying, "Shall I go up into any of the cities of Judah?" And the LORD said unto him, "Go up." And David said, "Whither shall I go up?" And he said, "Unto Hebron." 2 So David went up thither, and his two wives also, Ahinoam the Jezreelitess, and Abigail Nabal's wife the Carmelite. 3 And his men that were with him did David bring up, every man with his household: and they dwelt in the cities of Hebron. 4 And the men of Judah came, and there they anointed David king over the house of Judah. 8 But Abner the son of Ner, captain of Saul's host, took Ishbosheth the son of Saul, and brought him over to Mahanaim; 9 And made him king over Gilead, and over the Ashurites, and over Jezreel, and over Ephraim, and over Benjamin, and over all Israel. 10 Ishbosheth Saul's son was forty years old when he began to reign over Israel, and reigned two years. But the house of Judah followed David. 11 And the time that David was king in Hebron over the house of Judah was seven years and six months. 2 Samuel 5:1-5 (KJV) 1 Then came all the tribes of Israel to David unto Hebron, and spake, saying, "Behold, we are thy bone and thy flesh. 2 Also in time past, when Saul was king over us, thou wast he that leddest out and broughtest in Israel: and the LORD said to thee, 'Thou shalt feed my people Israel, and thou shalt be a captain over Israel.'" 3 So all the elders of Israel came to the king to Hebron; and king David made a league with them in Hebron before the LORD: and they anointed David king over Israel. 4 David was thirty years old when he began to reign, andhe reigned forty years. 5 In Hebron he reigned over Judah seven years and six months: and in Jerusalem he reigned thirty and three years over all Israel and Judah. So, David was king over Israel 40 years, 7+ years in Hebron over Judah and 33 years in Jerusalem over all Israel. And, Yeeshuwa` too was to be king over Judah (king of the Jews) for 7 years, as his ancestor David was. But, the elders of Judah - the Sanhedrin, the Pharisees, and the Sadducees - didn't want Him to be their King! So, they CUT HIM OFF, killing Him instead! ... AND IN THE MIDST OF THE WEEK (1/2 X 7 = 3-1/2) HE (THE MESSIAH) SHALL CAUSE THE SACRIFICE AND THE OBLATION TO CEASE, ... The time of the offer of the Kingdom to the Jews (the "Ministry") by Yeeshuwa` ("Jesus") was 3-1/2 years. One can deduce this by the passovers that occurred in the Gospels. The fourth and final Passover was near the time of His death (on the Day of Preparation). But, His death was the FINAL Sacrifice to be accepted by God. Hebrews: 10:1-18 (KJV) 1 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect. 2 For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins. 3 But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year. 4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins. 5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, "Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me: 6 In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure." 7 Then said I, "Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God." (Psalm 40:6-8) 8 Above when he said, "Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein"; which are offered by the law; 9 Then said he, "Lo, I come to do thy will, O God." He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second. 10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. 11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins: 12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God; 13 From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool. 14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified. 15 Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before, 16 "This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days," saith the Lord, "I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them; 17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more." 18 Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin. So, after the death of the Messiah, the "sacrifices" that the priests offered had no more efficacy! ... AND FOR THE OVERSPREADING OF ABOMINATIONS HE (THE MESSIAH) SHALL MAKE [IT] DESOLATE, EVEN UNTIL THE CONSUMMATION, AND THAT DETERMINED SHALL BE POURED UPON THE DESOLATE. This we see in Matthew 23! The first part of the chapter is a description of the "overspreading of abominations" performed by the elders of Judah - the "Separatists" or "Pharisees" and by the priests that served in the Temple as the copiers of the scrolls - the "scribes!" Then, at the end of the chapter, Yeeshuwa` said, Matthew 23:37-39 (KJV) 37 "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not! 38 "Behold, your house is left unto you DESOLATE. 39 For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord." Thus, the Jews ARE "the Desolate." They are the ones left desolate by the Messiah Himself until the "consummation"; that is, the "conclusion!" Forty years later after the Messiah's death and resurrection, the Temple was destroyed. The "antichrist" is NOT found in Daniel 9! Again, this "Trbulation" or "days of distress" is NOT talking about a "seven year period!" It's been going on since the First Century, and will continue until the Messiah returns. The WHOLE 1,000-YEAR PERIOD since the Messiah left them "Desolate" is "the time of Jacob's trouble." It's ALL the trouble the Jews have experienced across Europe and Asia over the last 1,000 years! This is just a single incident among all the inquisitions, pogroms, Crusades, and terrorism that they have experienced over the years. And, it is ALL because they rejected their KING! Here's where the matter becomes simple: Since the Tribulation has been happening since the First Century, then it is IMPOSSIBLE for there to be a "pretribulational rapture" or even a "mid-tribulational" or "pre-wrath" rapture. We are fast approaching the END - the CONSUMMATION - when our Lord will return. And, Yeeshuwa` said it in Matthew 24, Mark 13, and Luke 21: Matthew 24:29-31 (KJV) 29 "Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other." Mark 13:24-27 (KJV) 24 "But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, 25 And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken. 26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory. 27 And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven." Luke 21:24-28 (KJV) 24 "And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled. 25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring; 26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken. 27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. 28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh." This "rapture" will occur AFTER the Tribulation. And, this is the SAME "rapture" that is shown in ... 1 Thessalonians 4:13-17 (KJV) 13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. 15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. 16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Most misunderstand these verses because (1) they fail to understand they are the same as Matthew 24:30-31, Mark 13:26-27, and Luke 21:27-28, and/or (2) they fail to understand that we are "souls" or "air-breathing creatures," and there is no continuity of existence between one's death and his or her resurrection. They will also make the mistake of thinking "that God brings those who have died WITH Yeeshuwa` ("Jesus")" is the trip from heaven to earth instead of from the grave where they were buried to where Yeeshuwa` will be and on to the Middle East! Well, you're going to think I'm "wrong," too, then, because we're still IN the "times of the Gentiles" which is the time when Gentiles still trample Jerusalem. Jerusalem is NOT YET delivered from the Gentiles, for the Old City is still in four parts - the Jewish Quarter, the Muslim Quarter, the Armenian Quarter, and the Christian Quarter - and the larger city of modern Jerusalem is considered an "International City." I agree with you on these points. Again, I agree.

Shalom, @Cntrysner. That's a great rationalization, but it is NOT supported by the Scriptures. We are given the ordnance of water baptism, as well. Take it to heart!

Shalom, Cntrysner. That's an interesting theory, but the Scriptures do not support it. Instead, we find ... Acts 8:26-40 (KJV) 26 And the angel of the Lord spake unto Philip, saying, "Arise, and go toward the south unto the way that goeth down from Jerusalem unto Gaza, which is desert." 27 And he arose and went: and, behold, a man of Ethiopia, an eunuch of great authority under Candace queen of the Ethiopians, who had the charge of all her treasure, and had come to Jerusalem for to worship, 28 Was returning, and sitting in his chariot read Esaias the prophet. 29 Then the Spirit said unto Philip, "Go near, and join thyself to this chariot." 30 And Philip ran thither to him, and heard him read the prophet Esaias, and said, "Understandest thou what thou readest?" 31 And he said, "How can I, except some man should guide me?" And he desired Philip that he would come up and sit with him. 32 The place of the scripture which he read was this, "He was led as a sheep to the slaughter; and like a lamb dumb before his shearer, so opened he not his mouth: 33 In his humiliation his judgment was taken away: and who shall declare his generation? for his life is taken from the earth." (Isaiah 53:7-8) 34 And the eunuch answered Philip, and said, "I pray thee, of whom speaketh the prophet this? of himself, or of some other man?" 35 Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus. 36 And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, "See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?" 37 And Philip said, "If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest." And he answered and said, "I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God." 38 And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him. 39 And when they were come up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught away Philip, that the eunuch saw him no more: and he went on his way rejoicing. 40 But Philip was found at Azotus: and passing through he preached in all the cities, till he came to Caesarea. Nope. Sorry, but that is NOT what one should be concluding from Mark 16:15. If one pays attention to the logic, "is baptized" is included in the positive statement, but the negative statement doesn't include its mention: "He that believeth not shall be damned (condemned)." So, baptism is NOT a "requirement for salvation" or it would have been included in BOTH the negative AND the positive! Ephesians 5:26 uses the WRONG GREEK WORD for what you are trying to convey; here's the Greek: 26 ἵνα αὐτὴν ἁγιάσῃ, καθαρίσας τῷ λουτρῷ τοῦ ὕδατος ἐν ῥήματι, This is transliterated as ... 26 hina auteen hagiasee, katharisas too loutroo tou hudatos en hreemati, And this translates word-for-word into ... 26 so-that she is-made-holy, cleansing-[her] in-the-washing of-the water in command, It is not the word "logos" translated as "word," but rather the Greek word "hreema," meaning "a saying of any kind, as command, report, or promise." Nope. Again, wrong conclusion. The baptism of John was definitely a water baptism, but the chief priests, the scribes, and the elders reasoned like this: Mark 11:27-33; 12:1-12 (KJV) 27 And they come again to Jerusalem: and as he was walking in the temple, there come to him the chief priests, and the scribes, and the elders, 28 And say unto him, "By what authority doest thou these things? and who gave thee this authority to do these things?" 29 And Jesus answered and said unto them, "I will also ask of you one question, and answer me, and I will tell you by what authority I do these things. 30 The baptism of John, was it from heaven, or of men? answer me." 31 And they reasoned with themselves, saying, "If we shall say, 'From heaven'; he will say, 'Why then did ye not believe him?' 32 But if we shall say, 'Of men'..."; they feared the people: for all men counted John, that he was a prophet indeed. 33 And they answered and said unto Jesus, "We cannot tell." And Jesus answering saith unto them, "Neither do I tell you by what authority I do these things." 1 And he began to speak unto them by parables. "A certain man planted a vineyard, and set an hedge about it, and digged a place for the winefat, and built a tower, and let it out to husbandmen, and went into a far country. 2 And at the season he sent to the husbandmen a servant, that he might receive from the husbandmen of the fruit of the vineyard. 3 And they caught him, and beat him, and sent him away empty. 4 "And again he sent unto them another servant; and at him they cast stones, and wounded him in the head, and sent him away shamefully handled. 5 "And again he sent another; and him they killed, and many others; beating some, and killing some. 6 Having yet therefore one son, his well beloved, he sent him also last unto them, saying, "'They will reverence my son.' 7 But those husbandmen said among themselves, "'This is the heir; come, let us kill him, and the inheritance shall be ours.!' 8 "And they took him, and killed him, and cast him out of the vineyard. 9 What shall therefore the lord of the vineyard do?" "he will come and destroy the husbandmen, and will give the vineyard unto others!" 10 "And have ye not read this scripture; "'The stone which the builders rejected is become the head of the corner: 11 This was the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes'?" 12 And they sought to lay hold on him, but feared the people: for they knew that he had spoken the parable against them: and they left him, and went their way. Luke also gives us an account: Luke 20:1-18 (KJV) 1 And it came to pass, that on one of those days, as he taught the people in the temple, and preached the gospel, the chief priests and the scribes came upon him with the elders, 2 And spake unto him, saying, "Tell us, by what authority doest thou these things? or who is he that gave thee this authority?" 3 And he answered and said unto them, "I will also ask you one thing; and answer me: 4 The baptism of John, was it from heaven, or of men?" 5 And they reasoned with themselves, saying, "If we shall say, 'From heaven'; he will say, 'Why then believed ye him not?' 6 But and if we say, 'Of men'; all the people will stone us: for they be persuaded that John was a prophet!" 7 And they answered, that they could not tell whence it was. 8 And Jesus said unto them, "Neither tell I you by what authority I do these things." 9 Then began he to speak to the people this parable; "A certain man planted a vineyard, and let it forth to husbandmen, and went into a far country for a long time. 10 And at the season he sent a servant to the husbandmen, that they should give him of the fruit of the vineyard: but the husbandmen beat him, and sent him away empty. 11 "And again he sent another servant: and they beat him also, and entreated him shamefully, and sent him away empty. 12"And again he sent a third: and they wounded him also, and cast him out. 13 "Then said the lord of the vineyard, "'What shall I do? I will send my beloved son: it may be they will reverence him when they see him.' 14 "But when the husbandmen saw him, they reasoned among themselves, saying, "'This is the heir: come, let us kill him, that the inheritance may be ours!' 15 "So they cast him out of the vineyard, and killed him. "What therefore shall the lord of the vineyard do unto them?" 16 "He shall come and destroy these husbandmen, and shall give the vineyard to others." And when they heard it, they said, "God forbid!" 17 And he beheld them, and said, "What is this then that is written, 'The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner? 18 "'Whosoever shall fall upon that stone shall be broken; but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder.'" And, Matthew attaches a few parables that Yeeshuwa` added: Matthew 21:23-46 (KJV) 23 And when he was come into the temple, the chief priests and the elders of the people came unto him as he was teaching, and said, "By what authority doest thou these things? and who gave thee this authority?" 24 And Jesus answered and said unto them, "I also will ask you one thing, which if ye tell me, I in like wise will tell you by what authority I do these things. 25 The baptism of John, whence was it? from heaven, or of men?" And they reasoned with themselves, saying, "If we shall say, 'From heaven'; he will say unto us, 'Why did ye not then believe him?' 26 But if we shall say, 'Of men'; we fear the people; for all hold John as a prophet." 27 And they answered Jesus, and said, "We cannot tell." And he said unto them, "Neither tell I you by what authority I do these things. 28 "But what think ye? A certain man had two sons; and he came to the first, and said, "'Son, go work to day in my vineyard.' 29 "He answered and said, "'I will not': but afterward he repented, and went. 30 "And he came to the second, and said likewise. And he answered and said, "'I go, sir': and went not. 31 "Whether of them twain did the will of his father?" They say unto him, "The first." Jesus saith unto them, "Verily I say unto you, That the publicans and the harlots go into the kingdom of God before you. 32 For John came unto you in the way of righteousness, and ye believed him not: but the publicans and the harlots believed him: and ye, when ye had seen it, repented not afterward, that ye might believe him. 33 "Hear another parable: There was a certain householder, which planted a vineyard, and hedged it round about, and digged a winepress in it, and built a tower, and let it out to husbandmen, and went into a far country: 34 "And when the time of the fruit drew near, he sent his servants to the husbandmen, that they might receive the fruits of it. 35 And the husbandmen took his servants, and beat one, and killed another, and stoned another. 36 "Again, he sent other servants more than the first: and they did unto them likewise. 37 "But last of all he sent unto them his son, saying, They will reverence my son.' 38 "But when the husbandmen saw the son, they said among themselves, "'This is the heir; come, let us kill him, and let us seize on his inheritance!' 39 "And they caught him, and cast him out of the vineyard, and slew him. 40 "When the lord therefore of the vineyard cometh, what will he do unto those husbandmen?" 41 They say unto him, "He will miserably destroy those wicked men, and will let out his vineyard unto other husbandmen, which shall render him the fruits in their seasons!" 42 Jesus saith unto them, "Did ye never read in the scriptures, "'The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes'? 43 "Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof. 44 And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder!" 45 And when the chief priests and Pharisees had heard his parables, they perceived that he spake of them. 46 But when they sought to lay hands on him, they feared the multitude, because they took him for a prophet. "Out of the mouths of two or three witnesses, a thing shall be established." Don't add words to what Yeeshuwa` said! That's a DANGEROUS practice! There you go AGAIN! These words are NOT said "on the contrary" to what they were thinking, but were in ADDITION to what they were thinking! Yeeshuwa` NEVER said "being baptized by the Ruwach haQodesh ('the Holy Spirit')" REPLACED "the baptism of Yochanan the Immerser!" That's a FALSE assumption! It's also a FALSE assumption to think that "the receiving of the Holy Ghost's power" REPLACED the Lord "restoring again the Kingdom to Israel!" All He told them is that it was not yet time because "the times or the seasons which the Father hath put in His own power" will happen in HIS timing! Again, I caution you against assuming that "but" always means "on the contrary." It doesn't! Most of the time, "but" can be replaced with the word "however." But, the contrast of two different thoughts doesn't mean that one replaces the other. Instead, they can exist together on different plains of importance! I also challenge your understanding of some of the more basic, biblical words, such as "spirit," "glorified," "preach," and "gospel." You may not even understand the title "Christ." Also, I've already explained that it was NOT Paul's gift to baptize. His gift was in presenting the arguments for Yeeshuwa` being the Messiah of God and the future King of Israel, and he reasoned both with the Jews and with the Gentiles in the cities to which he was sent. His purpose was to PLANT EKKLEESIAI ('called out' groups of people). So, his words in 1 Corinthians 1:17 are not to say that he rejected baptism, but that that was not HIS gift! He left that procedure to the leaders of the ekkleesiai he started.

Shalom, JoeCanada. One might also consider this truth: Bullfrogs NEVER SLEEP! They have short periods of inactivity in which they are merely waiting for the next victim, but they are ALWAYS AWARE! During mating seasons, they can croak all night and often in the daytime, too, as long as they are not discovered by predators. (Amphibians are NOT the same as reptiles. Amphibians have no scales or teeth; they have smoothe skin, and they spend half of their lives in water. Reptiles have scales, often have teeth, and they are NOT "slimy" but dry and rough to the touch, and they are most at home on land, although some are adapted to bodies of water, such as aligators, crocodiles, and some snakes). Actually, I don't think their "power has somehow diminished." I believe it's more a symbol of their URGENCY to make an impact on the earth and its inhabitants before their power is over! That may be so. But, to make this more real to people, one should know that "Armageddon" is a REAL PLACE that still exists to this day! The Greek word is a transliteration of the Hebrew phrase, "Har Megiddown," which means "Mountain of Megiddow." It is called "Tel-Megiddo" today (See Tel-Megiddo-Armageddon-national-park.) As you look at the arial shots of the mount, the farmlands below it to the north are called the "Plain of Jezre'el" (יִזְרְעֶאל or Yizr`e'l) is a 380-square-kilometer plot of ground that was often used by armies as a staging area before attacks. The "tel" or "mountain" was a look-out point for the battles fought below, it was also the "guard-tower" at the cross roads between mountains, where the Israeli roads, like today's Highways 66 and 65, now exist.

Shalom, Cntrysner. One may not "do away with" baptism for the simple fact that Yeeshuwa` Himself said to do so, Matthew 28:18-20 (KJV) 18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, "All power (authority) is given unto me in heaven and in earth. 19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name (on the authority) of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: 20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world." Amen. (Hebrew for "Truth.") It's not a command in order to gain acceptance with God; it's simply what Yeeshuwa` told them to do, having BEEN accepted by God! We now have the power of the Ruwach haQodesh Elohiym (the Holy Spirit of God) to DO the things that will please our Father! We didn't have that before the New Birth! Paul's mission was not to baptize, although he did not shrink from it, if no one else was available. Remember: Not everyone has the same gifts of the Spirit. Paul's mission was to PLANT EKKLEESIAI! Once an ekkleesia was established, the believers themselves would do the baptizing! Shaa'uwl "Paulos" ("Paul," named for his Roman sponsor, the proconsul of Cyprus, Sergius Paulus, Acts 13:7), as a Paruwsh (a "Pharisee" or a "Separatist"), was more gifted to share the apologetics of the faith with both Jews and Gentiles in whatever city to which he was led by the Ruwach haQodesh, and he often had someone else (often more than one) with him to help establish that ekkleesia. The new birth is like the neck of an hourglass: Before the new birth, one may try to do good works in an effort to please God, but after one comes to the end of oneself, and realizes that ONLY GOD can do for us what we can't do for ourselves, then he or she can be "born again." And, once he or she has been "born again," NOW he or she can do the things that God commands through the power of His Spirit, not to be "saved," but BECAUSE he or she has been justified by GOD!

Shabbat shalom, Neighbor. This is why we go back to the Scriptures for their instruction, and when in doubt, ask a Baptist! (Just kidding! LOL! Baptists don't necessarily know any better.) Being a Baptist before I learned about the Messianic Jews, I also know a few things about baptism. First, I know that it is NOT a part of God's justification for us (which most erroneously call "salvation"). There is absolutely NOTHING that we could "bring to the table" to gain God's approval. Our justification comes SOLELY from God! Baptism is part of the "good works" that we do BECAUSE we were already justified by God! I also know that baptism is a PICTURE of what God's already done for us in the Sacrifice of His Son, Yeeshuwa`. It contributes NOTHING to the new birth itself. It's a picture of the death, burial, and the resurrection of our Master Yeeshuwa`. As a picture of death and burial, it's not enough just to sprinkle someone or pour some water on someone. A person isn't buried that way. One must be IMMERSED - totally BURIED - in the dirt or within the rock. Then, from the tomb, the Messiah was resurrected, just as He came up straightway out of the water at His baptism. Ideally, it should be running water in which a person is baptised, but a deep pool - a miqveh - would do in a pinch. If one doesn't have a river, a lake, or an ocean nearby, a baptismal pool will do.

Shalom, Cntrysner. It's really simple in light of the Scriptures you just posted. We are not yet truly risen with the Messiah! Spirit is the "WIND!" The "wind" of a person is how a person communicates what he or she is thinking, through the words conveyed in a person's "breath." Consider Paul's words in 1 Corinthians 15: 1 Corinthians 15:35-57 (KJV) 35 But some [man] will say, "How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?" 36 [Thou] fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die: 37 And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other [grain]: 38 But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body. 39 All flesh [is] not the same flesh: but [there is] one [kind of] flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, [and] another of birds. 40 [There are] also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial [is] one, and the [glory] of the terrestrial [is] another. 41 [There is] one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for [one] star differeth from [another] star in glory. 42 So also [is] THE RESURRECTION OF THE DEAD. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption: 43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power: 44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. 45 And so it is written, "The first man Adam was made a living soul "; the last Adam [was made] a quickening (life-giving) spirit. 46 Howbeit that [was] not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual. 47 The first man [is] of the earth, earthy: the second man [is] the Lord from heaven. 48 As [is] the earthy, such [are] they also that are earthy: and as [is] the heavenly, such [are] they also that are heavenly. 49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly. 50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. 51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal [must] put on immortality. 54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, "Death is swallowed up in victory." 55 "O death, where [is] thy sting? O grave, where [is] thy victory? " 56 The sting of death [is] sin; and the strength of sin [is] the law. 57 But thanks [be] to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

Shalom, Neighbor. Quite right! Some have had a fear of water that kept them from the baptismal pool. Some have been in wheelchairs where it was impractical to be baptized (although I've also witnessed some of them being CARRIED by their friends down into the pool and then being CARRIED out and set into their wheelchairs again where they were aided in drying off and redressing in the changing room). This had to be well thought through, but I've seen it done. Some were immature and, although they were young and sober enough to accept God's provision for their justification, they didn't yet understand the importance of baptism. It just had to be delayed until they were ready. Some, like the dying thief, had no time or opportunity before they died. Baptism is a PICTURE of what the Ruwach haQodesh Elohiym (the Holy Spirit of God) did for them in reality. The picture is desired, but is not required for one's justification by God. To support the idea of a "picture," recall Romans 6: Romans 6:2-7 (KJV) 3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? 4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that LIKE as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. 5 For if we have been planted together in the LIKENESS of his death, we shall be also in the LIKENESS of his resurrection: 6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. 7 For he that is dead is freed from sin. This also shows that baptizoo means "I immerse." So, being baptized doesn't mean to sprinkle a little water on a person, for one isn't BURIED by sprinkling a little dirt on a body! Nor is pouring a cup or a pint of dirt on a body! One must be BURIED in the dirt! Thus, one must be IMMERSED in water, as a likeness of His death, who was totally entombed in the garden tomb.

Shalom, Jayne. Something I was thinking about that's a little off-topic but is related because it was the Immerser's message: Mark 1:1-15 (KJV)] 1 The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God (the Good News from Yeeshua` the Anointed One, God's Son); 2 As it is written in the prophets, "Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee." [Malachi 3:1 (KJV) 1 Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me: and the Lord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come,saith the LORD of hosts.] 3 "The voice of one crying in the wilderness, "'Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight.'" (Isaiah 40:3) [Isaiah 40:3-5 (KJV) 3 The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, "Prepare ye the way of the LORD, make straight in the desert a highway for our God. 4 Every valley shall be exalted, and every mountain and hill shall be made low: and the crooked shall be made straight, and the rough places plain: 5 And the glory of the LORD shall be revealed, and all flesh shall see [it] together: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken [it]."] 4 John DID baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins (Greek: κηρύσσων βάπτισμα μετανοίας εἰς ἄφεσιν ἁμαρτιῶν = keerussoon baptisma metanoias eis afesin hamartioon = "he-was-heralding an-immersion of-repentance into a-remission/forgiveness/pardon of-sins"). 5 And there went out unto him all the land of Judaea, and they of Jerusalem, and were all baptized of him in the river of Jordan, confessing their sins. 6 And John was clothed with camel's hair, and with a girdle of a skin about his loins; and he did eat locusts and wild honey; 7 And preached, saying, "There cometh one mightier than I after me, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to stoop down and unloose. 8 I indeed have baptized you with water: but he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost." 9 And it came to pass in those days, that Jesus came from Nazareth of Galilee, and was baptized of John in Jordan. 10 And straightway coming up out of the water, he saw the heavens opened, and the Spirit like a dove descending upon him: 11 And there came a voice from heaven, [saying], "Thou art my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased." 12 And immediately the Spirit driveth him into the wilderness. 13 And he was there in the wilderness forty days, tempted of Satan; and was with the wild beasts; and the angels ministered unto him. 14 Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching (heralding) the gospel (Good News) of the kingdom of God, 15 And saying, "The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel!" What "good news" were they talking about? It was certainly NOT about "the death, burial, and resurrection of the Anointed One!" Most of the people were just learning that He was the Messiah! And, the Messiah had to die???!! And then, He would be raised to life? No, this was MUCH too early in His offer of the Kingdom to be all that! No, this "good news" was that which was proclaimed by Ysha`yaahuw (Isaiah) in ... Isaiah 52:7 (KJV) 7 "How beautiful upon the mountains are the feet of him that bringeth good tidings, that publisheth peace; that bringeth good tidings of good, that publisheth salvation; that saith unto Zion, 'Thy God reigneth!'" As in the days of David the King, who recognized that he was a mere figurehead for the TRUE King, YHWH God, Yeeshuwa` would be the same kind of King, reigning on behalf of His Father! THIS is what Yochanan and then Yeeshuwa` were heralding at the beginning!

Shalom, other one. Yes, and a prime example of one who could not be baptized but was still justified by God was the thief on the cross.

Shalom, Neighbor. To answer your question, we only need to read the words of Yeeshuwa` when convincing Yochanan to baptize Him: Matthew 3:13-17 (KJV) 13 Then cometh Jesus from Galilee to Jordan unto John, to be baptized of him. 14 But John forbad him, saying, "I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me?" 15 And Jesus answering said unto him, "Suffer [it to be so] now: for thus it becometh us TO FULFIL ALL RIGHTEOUSNESS." Then he suffered him. 16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him: 17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, "This is my beloved Son, IN WHOM I AM WELL PLEASED." He first had to present Himself for the ritual cleansing before the Ruwach haQodesh Elohiym (the Holy Spirit of G0d) could anoint Him for service as King and Priest and Prophet. And having done so, His Father was ""WELL PLEASED." Thus, He became the Anointed One, the Maashiyach, the Christos.

Shalom, Mr. M, and Happy Pesach (Passover)! No, I am merely Jewish. You're right that the remission of sins is not accomplished by ritual purification, but in order to make a sacrifice, one must first be ritually purified. This is false. There certainly WAS Levitical law in Yeeshuwa`s day, or Yeeshuwa` ("Jesus") couldn't have been proclaimed to have "KEPT THE LAW IN ALL POINTS!" I'm sorry that my posts seem to be "a bit long winded," but to get the gist of what is going on in the passages I quote, sometimes one must read more than a simple verse or paragraph. One must go back and get the flow of thought from the context. Not everyone takes the time to read the Scriptures for enjoyment or for a better understanding, but it would be wise to do so. If someone else quotes lots of Scripture to support his or her arguments, I read every one of the Scriptures posted and check them in their contexts. After all, they are more important than the conclusions one might draw from them. I might even check the original languages to be sure they have a proper understanding of those Scriptures. I use a combination of sources to help with that procedure: BlueLetterBible, BibleHub, Gesenius' Hebrew Grammar, and William Hersey Davis' Beginner's Grammar of the Greek New Testament, among many others. Actually, this is not quite right, either. Here's the FULL quote of what Z'kharyahuw ("Zecharias") said: Luke 1:67-79 (KJV) 67 And his father Zacharias was filled with the Holy Ghost, and prophesied, saying, 68 "Blessed [be] the LORD God of Israel; for he hath visited and redeemed his people, 69 And hath raised up an horn of salvation for us in the house of his servant David; 70 As he spake by the mouth of his holy prophets, which have been since the world began: 71 That we should be saved from our enemies, and from the hand of all that hate us; 72 To perform the mercy [promised] to our fathers, and to remember his holy covenant; 73 The oath which he sware to our father Abraham, 74 That he would grant unto us, that we being delivered out of the hand of our enemies might serve him without fear, 75 In holiness and righteousness before him, all the days of our life. 76 "And thou, child, shalt be called the prophet of the Highest: for thou shalt go before the face of the Lord to prepare his ways; 77 To give knowledge of salvation unto his people by the remission of their sins, 78 Through the tender mercy of our God; whereby the dayspring from on high hath visited us, 79 To give light to them that sit in darkness and [in] the shadow of death, to guide our feet into the way of peace." First, I would argue that Z'kharyahuw was ANOINTED by the Ruwach haQodesh Elohiym, the Holy Spirit of God, for this prophecy. Therefore, I have given him the red letters for which I have reserved for God's anointed ones. Second, it is being "saved from our enemies, and from the hand of all that hate us" that is to what the word "salvation" (deliverance or rescue) refers. This was a rescue YET TO BE REALIZED! It COULD have been realized when the Master Yeeshuwa` legitimately offered them the Kingdom of God (over which David originally presided), but it was NOT yet in force. So, their sins first had to be remitted, and this could ONLY be done through sacrifice, NOT by a baptism which was just a physical washing meant to PICTURE what the Holy Spirit would do within each person. However, as we now know by hindsight, the Messiah of God was REJECTED AND CRUCIFIED by the Jewish leaders - the elders of Yhudah - and by the priests - the Cohaniym of Aaron's line. The LORD God, as we know, turned this around to the benefit of the whole world by making the death of the Messiah "God's Sacrifice for sin," and this was the ULTIMATE Sacrifice that permanently met the Holy LORD God's requirements for sins. ("The wages [paycheck] of sin is death.") Isaiah 53:1-12 (KJV) 1 Who hath believed our report? and to whom is "the arm of the LORD" revealed? 2 For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him. 3 He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not. 4 Surely he hath borne OUR griefs, and carried OUR sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted. 5 But he was wounded for OUR transgressions, he was bruised for OUR iniquities: the chastisement of OUR peace was upon him; and with his stripes WE are healed. 6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity OF US ALL. 7 He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth. 8 He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken. 9 And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth. 10 Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him (the Messiah); he hath put him to grief: WHEN THOU SHALT MAKE HIS SOUL (the Messiah's "air-breathing body") AN OFFERING FOR SIN, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand. 11 HE SHALL SEE OF THE TRAVAIL OF HIS SOUL (the Messiah's "air-breathing body"), AND SHALL BE SATISFIED: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant (the Messiah) JUSTIFY MANY; for he shall bear THEIR iniquities. 12 Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul (his "air-breathing body") unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors. (All of this verse speaks to His Resurrection, since He had been "cut off out of the land of the living.") Baptized, yes, but that does NOT mean that they were "justified by God," for as you quoted, "their bodies were scattered in the wilderness." Indeed, that whole generation DIED in the wilderness because of their constant grumbling, complaining, and disobedience to God's commands, all but Joshua (Yhowshuwa`) and Caleb (KaaleeV), the two spies who remained faithful to the LORD God's promise. NONE of the adults who passed through the sea under the cloud, except for Joshua and Caleb, made it into the Promised Land. Yes, Yochanan the Immerser ("John the Baptizer") was indeed a prophet of God. He was not 'Eliyahuw ("Elijah"), nor any of the other named prophets in the past; he was called "the Voice of one crying in the wilderness," although he came in the spirit of 'Eliyahuw, as 'Eliyshah had a double portion before him: Isaiah 40:1-18 (KJV) 1 "Comfort ye, comfort ye my people," saith your God. 2 "Speak ye comfortably to Jerusalem, and cry unto her, that her warfare is accomplished, that her iniquity is pardoned: for she hath received of the LORD'S hand double for all her sins." 3 The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, "Prepare ye the way of the LORD, make straight in the desert a highway for our God. 4 Every valley shall be exalted, and every mountain and hill shall be made low: and the crooked shall be made straight, and the rough places plain: 5 And the glory of the LORD shall be revealed, and all flesh shall see it together: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it." 6 The voice said, "Cry." And he said, "What shall I cry?" "All flesh is grass, and all the goodliness thereof is as the flower of the field: 7 The grass withereth, the flower fadeth: because the spirit of the LORD bloweth upon it: surely the people is grass. 8 The grass withereth, the flower fadeth: but the word of our God shall stand for ever. HERE IS YOUR GOD!" 9 O Zion, that bringest good tidings, get thee up into the high mountain; O Jerusalem, that bringest good tidings, lift up thy voice with strength; lift it up, be not afraid; say unto the cities of Judah, "BEHOLD YOUR GOD!" 10 Behold, the Lord GOD (the Father) will come with strong hand, and "his Arm" (the Messiah) shall rule for him: behold, his reward is with him, and his work before him. 11 He shall feed his flock like a shepherd: he shall gather the lambs with his arm, and carry them in his bosom, and shall gently lead those that are with young. 12 Who hath measured the waters in the hollow of his hand, and meted out heaven with the span, and comprehended the dust of the earth in a measure, and weighed the mountains in scales, and the hills in a balance? 13 Who hath directed the Spirit of the LORD, or being his counseller hath taught him? 14 With whom took he counsel, and who instructed him, and taught him in the path of judgment, and taught him knowledge, and shewed to him the way of understanding? 15 Behold, the nations are as a drop of a bucket, and are counted as the small dust of the balance: behold, he taketh up the isles as a very little thing. 16 And Lebanon is not sufficient to burn, nor the beasts thereof sufficient for a burnt offering. 17 All nations before him are as nothing; and they are counted to him less than nothing, and vanity. 18 To whom then will ye liken God? or what likeness will ye compare unto him? Luke 1:5-17 (KJV) 5 There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea, a certain priest named Zacharias (K'kharyahuw), of the course of Abia ('AViyah): and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron ('Aharown), and her name was Elisabeth ('ElishaVet). 6 And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless. 7 And they had no child, because that Elisabeth was barren, and they both were now well stricken in years. 8 And it came to pass, that while he executed the priest's office before God in the order of his course, 9 According to the custom of the priest's office, his lot was to burn incense when he went into the temple of the Lord. 10 And the whole multitude of the people were praying without (outside) at the time of incense. 11 And there appeared unto him an angel of the Lord standing on the right side of the altar of incense. 12 And when Zacharias saw him, he was troubled, and fear fell upon him. 13 But the angel said unto him, "Fear not, Zacharias: for thy prayer is heard; and thy wife Elisabeth shall bear thee a son, and thou shalt call his name John. 14 And thou shalt have joy and gladness; and many shall rejoice at his birth. 15 For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb. 16 And many of the children of Israel shall he turn to the Lord their God. 17 And he shall go before him in the spirit and power of Elias, to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just; to make ready a people prepared for the Lord." Yochanan was the HERALD for the Messiah of God. He was to go before the Messiah into every town and village of Israel in which the Messiah would arrive and prepare the people for His arrival. However, His Herald was put in prison by Herod Antipas. So, He had to do the heralding Himself, and later, His disciples heralded before Him into the towns and villages He would visit. Indeed, the Greek word often translated as "preach" meant "to herald (as a town cryer)!"

Shalom, Mr. M. I'll start here, seeing this to be the first error. This was indeed a ritual for the priests; however, they were ALL to be a "kingdom of priests" to the Gentiles! And, this purification by water ritual was performed by more than just the priests. Even Paul and his companions exercised this practice: Acts 21:17-26 (KJV) 17 And when we were come to Jerusalem, the brethren received us gladly. 18 And the day following Paul went in with us unto James; and all the elders were present. 19 And when he had saluted them, he declared particularly what things God had wrought among the Gentiles by his ministry. 20 And when they heard it, they glorified the Lord, and said unto him, "Thou seest, brother, how many thousands of Jews there are which believe; and they are all zealous of the law: 21 And they are informed of thee, that thou teachest all the Jews which are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise their children, neither to walk after the customs. 22 What is it therefore? the multitude must needs come together: for they will hear that thou art come. 23 Do therefore this that we say to thee: "We have four men which have a vow on them; 24 Them take, and purify thyself with them, and be at charges with them, that they may shave their heads: and all may know that those things, whereof they were informed concerning thee, are nothing; but that thou thyself also walkest orderly, and keepest the law. 25 As touching the Gentiles which believe, we have written and concluded that they observe no such thing, save only that they keep themselves from things offered to idols, and from blood, and from strangled, and from fornication." 26 Then Paul took the men, and the next day purifying himself with them entered into the temple, to signify the accomplishment of the days of purification, until that an offering should be offered for every one of them. While his companions were purified having shaven their heads, Paul was also purified among them. Then the five of them offered their sacrifices unto God in the Temple. It was intended to be a demonstration of Paul's adherence to the Law and the rituals associated with it. It was meant to PROVE that Paul did NOT "teach all the Jews which are among the Gentiles to forsake Mosheh, saying that they ought not to circumcise their children, neither to walk after the customs." He understood this strategy, himself being a Paruwsh ("a Pharasee"), which means "a Separatist."

Shalom, @Mr. M You're not entirely wrong, but you have some missing pieces of the puzzle. @Cntrysner was not wrong when he said, "Before John the Baptist, Jews under the law of Moses were practicing ritual immersion in the form of entering into a mikveh for purification from sin before entering the temple. "John’s baptism in the river Jordon for sin remission was nothing new and it meet all requirements under the law (Mark 1:3-4). We know the death of Christ freed us from the law if we believe." Baptism was NOT started by Yeeshuwa` ("Jesus") nor by Yochanan the Immerser ("John the Baptizer"). So, when you said, "There is no requirement for ritual immersion in the law of Moses. Levitical law required the priests to wash prior to ministering at the altar. The idea that this provided purification, or remission from sin is unsupported." That's not quite true. The cleansing was symbolic, but it was the Ruwach haQodesh Elohiym (the Holy Spirit of God) who does the REAL cleansing! You KNOW DEEP DOWN this to be true, but it was also true in the TANAKH, what you call the "Old Testament!" Exodus 19:1-6 (KJV) 1 In the third month, when the children of Israel were gone forth out of the land of Egypt, the same day came they into the wilderness of Sinai. 2 For they were departed from Rephidim, and were come to the desert of Sinai, and had pitched in the wilderness; and there Israel camped before the mount. 3 And Moses went up unto God, and the LORD called unto him out of the mountain, saying, "Thus shalt thou say to the house of Jacob, and tell the children of Israel; 4 "'Ye have seen what I did unto the Egyptians, and how I bare you on eagles' wings, and brought you unto myself. 5 Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine: 6 And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation.' "These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel." So, when you said, "Levitical law required the priests to wash prior to ministering at the altar. The idea that this provided purification, or remission from sin is unsupported," you're a bit confused. The "purification" is not the same thing as the "remission from sin." The "purification" was INDEED performed but not for the "remission from sin!" The "purification" was to make a person "holy"; but the "remission from sin" was what some call "personal salvation" and what the Scriptures call "justification by God." Holiness is NOT THE SAME THING as righteousness. One can be "holy" - set apart for the LORD'S service - without being a "righteous" person. Exodus 30:17-21 (KJV) 17 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, 18 "Thou shalt also make a laver of brass, and his foot also of brass, to wash withal: and thou shalt put it between the tabernacle of the congregation and the altar, and thou shalt put water therein. 19 For Aaron and his sons shall wash their hands and their feet thereat: 20 When they go into the tabernacle of the congregation, they shall wash with water, that they die not; or when they come near to the altar to minister, to burn offering made by fire unto the LORD: 21 So they shall wash their hands and their feet, that they die not: and it shall be a statute for ever to them, even to him and to his seed throughout their generations." Brass is the metal that represents judgment. When the children of Israel (Ya`aqoV or "Jacob") will be under the NEW Covenant, then the following will be fulfilled: Jeremiah 30:1-31: (KJV) 1 The word that came to Jeremiah from the LORD, saying, 2 "Thus speaketh the LORD God of Israel, saying, "'Write thee all the words that I have spoken unto thee in a book. 3 For, lo, the days come,' saith the LORD, 'that I will bring again the captivity of my people Israel and Judah, saith the LORD: and I will cause them to return to the land that I gave to their fathers, and they shall possess it.'" 4 And these are the words that the LORD spake concerning Israel and concerning Judah. 5 For thus saith the LORD; "We have heard a voice of trembling, of fear, and not of peace. 6 Ask ye now, and see whether a man doth travail with child? wherefore do I see every man with his hands on his loins, as a woman in travail, and all faces are turned into paleness? 7 Alas! for that day is great, so that none is like it: it is even the time of Jacob's trouble; but he shall be saved out of it. 8 For it shall come to pass in that day," saith the LORD of hosts, "that I will break his yoke from off thy neck, and will burst thy bonds, and strangers shall no more serve themselves of him: 9 But they shall serve the LORD their God, and David their king, whom I will raise up unto them. 10 "Therefore fear thou not, O my servant Jacob," saith the LORD; "neither be dismayed, O Israel: for, lo, I will save thee from afar, and thy seed from the land of their captivity; and Jacob shall return, and shall be in rest, and be quiet, and none shall make him afraid. 11 "For I am with thee," saith the LORD, "to save thee: though I make a full end of all nations whither I have scattered thee, yet will I not make a full end of thee: but I will correct thee in measure, and will not leave thee altogether unpunished." 12 For thus saith the LORD, "Thy bruise is incurable, and thy wound is grievous. 13 There is none to plead thy cause, that thou mayest be bound up: thou hast no healing medicines. 14 All thy lovers have forgotten thee; they seek thee not; for I have wounded thee with the wound of an enemy, with the chastisement of a cruel one, for the multitude of thine iniquity; because thy sins were increased. 15 Why criest thou for thine affliction? thy sorrow is incurable for the multitude of thine iniquity: because thy sins were increased, I have done these things unto thee. 16 "Therefore all they that devour thee shall be devoured; and all thine adversaries, every one of them, shall go into captivity; and they that spoil thee shall be a spoil, and all that prey upon thee will I give for a prey. 17 For I will restore health unto thee, and I will heal thee of thy wounds," saith the LORD; "because they called thee an Outcast, saying, 'This is Zion, whom no man seeketh after.'" 18 Thus saith the LORD; "Behold, I will bring again the captivity of Jacob's tents, and have mercy on his dwellingplaces; and the city shall be builded upon her own heap, and the palace shall remain after the manner thereof. 19 And out of them shall proceed thanksgiving and the voice of them that make merry: and I will multiply them, and they shall not be few; I will also glorify them, and they shall not be small. 20 Their children also shall be as aforetime, and their congregation shall be established before me, and I will punish all that oppress them. 21 And their nobles shall be of themselves, and their governor shall proceed from the midst of them; and I will cause him to draw near, and he shall approach unto me: for who is this that engaged his heart to approach unto me?" saith the LORD. 22 "And ye shall be my people, and I will be your God." 23 Behold, the whirlwind of the LORD goeth forth with fury, a continuing whirlwind: it shall fall with pain upon the head of the wicked. 24The fierce anger of the LORD shall not return, until he have done it, and until he have performed the intents of his heart: in the latter days ye shall consider it. 1 "At the same time," saith the LORD, "will I be the God of all the families of Israel, and they shall be my people." 2 Thus saith the LORD, "The people which were left of the sword found grace in the wilderness; even Israel, when I went to cause him to rest." 3 The LORD hath appeared of old unto me, saying, "Yea, I have loved thee with an everlasting love: therefore with lovingkindness have I drawn thee. 4 Again I will build thee, and thou shalt be built, O virgin of Israel: thou shalt again be adorned with thy tabrets, and shalt go forth in the dances of them that make merry. 5 Thou shalt yet plant vines upon the mountains of Samaria: the planters shall plant, and shall eat them as common things. 6 For there shall be a day, that the watchmen upon the mount Ephraim shall cry, 'Arise ye, and let us go up to Zion unto the LORD our God.'" 7 For thus saith the LORD; "Sing with gladness for Jacob, and shout among the chief of the nations: publish ye, praise ye, and say, "'O LORD, save thy people, the remnant of Israel.' 8 "Behold, I will bring them from the north country, and gather them from the coasts of the earth, and with them the blind and the lame, the woman with child and her that travaileth with child together: a great company shall return thither. 9 They shall come with weeping, and with supplications will I lead them: I will cause them to walk by the rivers of waters in a straight way, wherein they shall not stumble: for I am a father to Israel, and Ephraim is my firstborn." 10 Hear the word of the LORD, O ye nations, and declare it in the isles afar off, and say, "He that scattered Israel will gather him, and keep him, as a shepherd doth his flock. 11 For the LORD hath redeemed Jacob, and ransomed him from the hand of him that was stronger than he. 12 Therefore they shall come and sing in the height of Zion, and shall flow together to the goodness of the LORD, for wheat, and for wine, and for oil, and for the young of the flock and of the herd: and their soul shall be as a watered garden; and they shall not sorrow any more at all." 13 "Then shall the virgin rejoice in the dance, both young men and old together: for I will turn their mourning into joy, and will comfort them, and make them rejoice from their sorrow. 14 And I will satiate the soul of the priests with fatness, and my people shall be satisfied with my goodness," saith the LORD. 15 Thus saith the LORD; "A voice was heard in Ramah, lamentation, and bitter weeping; Rahel weeping for her children refused to be comforted for her children, because they were not." 16 Thus saith the LORD; "Refrain thy voice from weeping, and thine eyes from tears: for thy work shall be rewarded," saith the LORD; "and they shall come again from the land of the enemy. 17 And there is hope in thine end," saith the LORD, "that thy children shall come again to their own border. 18 I have surely heard Ephraim bemoaning himself thus; "'Thou hast chastised me, and I was chastised, as a bullock unaccustomed to the yoke: turn thou me, and I shall be turned; for thou art the LORD my God. 19 Surely after that I was turned, I repented; and after that I was instructed, I smote upon my thigh: I was ashamed, yea, even confounded, because I did bear the reproach of my youth.' 20 "Is Ephraim my dear son? is he a pleasant child? for since I spake against him, I do earnestly remember him still: therefore my bowels are troubled for him; I will surely have mercy upon him," saith the LORD. 21 Set thee up waymarks, make thee high heaps: set thine heart toward the highway, even the way which thou wentest: turn again, O virgin of Israel, turn again to these thy cities. 22 How long wilt thou go about, O thou backsliding daughter? for the LORD hath created a new thing in the earth, A woman shall compass a man. 23 Thus saith the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel; "As yet they shall use this speech in the land of Judah and in the cities thereof, when I shall bring again their captivity; The LORD bless thee, O habitation of justice, and mountain of holiness. 24 And there shall dwell in Judah itself, and in all the cities thereof together, husbandmen, and they that go forth with flocks. 25 For I have satiated the weary soul, and I have replenished every sorrowful soul." 26 Upon this I awaked, and beheld; and my sleep was sweet unto me. 27 "Behold, the days come," saith the LORD, "that I will sow the house of Israel and the house of Judah with the seed of man, and with the seed of beast. 28 And it shall come to pass, that like as I have watched over them, to pluck up, and to break down, and to throw down, and to destroy, and to afflict; so will I watch over them, to build, and to plant," saith the LORD. 29 "In those days they shall say no more, 'The fathers have eaten a sour grape, and the children's teeth are set on edge.' 30 But every one shall die for his own iniquity: every man that eateth the sour grape, his teeth shall be set on edge." 31 "Behold, the days come," saith the LORD, "that I will make A NEW COVENANT with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: 32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them," saith the LORD: 33 "But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days," saith the LORD, "I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. 34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, 'Know the LORD': for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them," saith the LORD: "for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more." Thus saith the LORD, which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The LORD of hosts is his name: 36 "If those ordinances depart from before me," saith the LORD, "then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever." 37 Thus saith the LORD; "If heaven above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, I will also cast off all the seed of Israel for all that they have done," saith the LORD. 38 "Behold, the days come," saith the LORD, "that the city shall be built to the LORD from the tower of Hananeel unto the gate of the corner. 39And the measuring line shall yet go forth over against it upon the hill Gareb, and shall compass about to Goath. 40 And the whole valley of the dead bodies, and of the ashes, and all the fields unto the brook of Kidron, unto the corner of the horse gate toward the east, shall be holy unto the LORD; it shall not be plucked up, nor thrown down any more for ever." Revelation 5:1-10 (KJV) 1 And I saw in the right hand of him that sat on the throne a book written within and on the backside, sealed with seven seals. 2 And I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, "Who is worthy to open the book, and to loose the seals thereof?" 3 And no man in heaven, nor in earth, neither under the earth, was able to open the book, neither to look thereon. 4 And I wept much, because no man was found worthy to open and to read the book, neither to look thereon. 5 And one of the elders saith unto me, "Weep not: behold (LOOK!), the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof!" 6 And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth. 7 And he came and took the book out of the right hand of him that sat upon the throne. 8 And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints. 9 And they sung a new song, saying, "Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation; 10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth." Yeeshuwa` ("Jesus") will not only be the King of kings on His Father's behalf, but He is given ALL JUDGMENT (John 5:19-23), and He is the Resurrection and the Life (John 11:25-26)! Basically, He is the MASTER OF LIFE AND DEATH, for it is also said that "out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations!" (Revelation 19:15), and... Revelation 14:17-20 (KJV) 17 And another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle. 18 And another angel came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, "Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe." 19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God. 20 And the winepress was trodden without the city, and blood came out of the winepress, even unto the horse bridles, by the space of a thousand and six hundred furlongs. Which is a fulfillment of Isaiah 63:1-6: Isaiah 63:1-6 (KJV) 1 "Who is this that cometh from Edom, with dyed garments from Bozrah? this that is glorious in his apparel, travelling in the greatness of his strength?" "I that speak in righteousness, mighty to save." 2 "Wherefore art thou red in thine apparel, and thy garments like him that treadeth in the winefat?" 3 "I have trodden the winepress alone; and of the people there was none with me: for I will tread them in mine anger, and trample them in my fury; and their blood shall be sprinkled upon my garments, and I will stain all my raiment. 4 For the day of vengeance is in mine heart, and the year of my redeemed is come. 5 And I looked, and there was none to help; and I wondered that there was none to uphold: therefore mine own arm brought salvation unto me; and my fury, it upheld me. 6 And I will tread down the people in mine anger, and make them drunk in my fury, and I will bring down their strength to the earth."

Shalom, Keras. You DON'T know what you're talking about! אֲרִיאֵל ('Ariy'eel) means a "lioness," and it refers to Jerusalem! And, the word in Isaiah 29:2 is still כַּאֲרִיאֵֽל (ka'ariy'eel) with the "ka-" prefix that means "like" or "as." It's also in the beginning of verse 2 as לַֽאֲרִיאֵ֑ל (la'ariy'eel) with the "la-" prefix that means "to" or "for." You are FIXATED on this misreading of Scripture! And, for what? To prove your theory that there will be an "explosion on the sun's surface?" Explosions on the sun's surface happen ALL THE TIME! That's what the sun is! It consists of trillions of chain reactions occurring from nuclear fusion! Hydrogen is CONSTANTLY being converted to Helium! And, the surface explosions don't hold a candle to what is going on within the sun's mass! You're pulling verses from many different sources, but the thing you should be learning from all these is this: Hebrews 12:29 (KJV) 29 For our God is a consuming fire. He doesn't NEED a "CME" to do His work! Furthermore, the verses you've pulled from many sources are all disconnected and from different times in Israel's history. The thing that should be important in your thinking is that Yeeshuwa` shall be the King of this earth (under His Father, of course). Paul, speaking of the resurrections, said, 1 Corinthians 15:20-28 (KJV) 20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits (singular) of them that slept. 21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23 But every man in his own order: (0) Christ (the Messiah) the firstfruits (singular); (in 30 A.D.) (1) afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. 24 (still in the future, at the beginning of the Millennium) (2) Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. (at the end of the Millennium) 25 For he (the Messiah) must reign, till he (God) hath put all enemies under his (the Messiah's) feet. 26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death. 27 For he (God) hath put all things under his (the Messiah's) feet. (But when he saith, "all things are put under him," it is manifest that "he" is excepted, which did "put all things under him.") 28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all. And, Luke 1:30-33 (KJV) 30 And the angel (Gabriel) said unto her, "Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God. 31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS (Greek: Ieesous = Hebrew: Yeeshuwa`). 32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David: 33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end." And, this is in partial fulfillment of the Davidic Covenant found in 2 Samuel 7 and 1 Chronicles 17. BUT, it won't end at the end of the Millennium! We learn in Revelation 22:1-5, Revelation 22:1-5 (KJV) 1 And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb. 2 In the midst of the street of it (the city the New Jerusalem), and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations. 3 And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him: 4 And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads. 5 And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and THEY SHALL REIGN FOR EVER AND EVER. So, our place on this earth as the earth's rulers under the King of Kings will continue forever. THIS is for what we should anticipate! THIS is what we should expect!

Shalom, Michael. I don't believe there's ENOUGH emphasis put upon the actual "apokalupsis" - the "uncovering"/"revealing" - of God's Son, Yeeshuwa` haMaashiyach ("Jesus the Christ")! That's what the book of Revelation (always SINGULAR, btw) is all about! That's the title of the book! It is entitled: "1 Ἀποκάλυψις Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ, ἣν ἔδωκεν αὐτῷ ὁ Θεός, δεῖξαι τοῖς δούλοις αὐτοῦ, ἃ δεῖ γενέσθαι ἐν τάχει, καὶ ἐσήμανεν ἀποστείλας διὰ τοῦ ἀγγέλου αὐτοῦ τῷ δούλῳ αὐτοῦ Ἰωάννῃ, 2 ὃς ἐμαρτύρησε τὸν λόγον τοῦ Θεοῦ, καὶ τὴν μαρτυρίαν Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ, ὅσα τε εἶδε" Transliterated, this is: "1 Apokalupsis Ieesou Christou, heen edooken autoo ho Theos, deixai tois doulois autou, ho dei genesthai en tachei, kai eseemanen aposteilas dia tou aggelou autou too douloo autou Iooannee, 2 hos emartureese ton logon tou Theou, kai teen marturian Ieesou Christou, hosa te eide." Translated word-for-word, we get: "1 An-Uncovering of-Yeeshuwa` Maashiyach (of Jesus Christ), which gave to-Him the God, to-show to-the bond-servants of-Him, what-things need to-take-place in haste, and He-made-it-known to-sent-ones through the messenger of-Him to-the bond-servant of-Him Yoannees (John), 2 who testified to-the Word of-the God, and the witness of-Yeeshuwa` Maashiyach (of Jesus Christ), as-much of-it as-he-saw." So, it passed hands from God (the Father) to His messenger ("angel") to His bond servants, to His bond servant Yochanan (John) the Beloved, one of His "sent-ones" the Apostles.

Shabbat shalom, Dennis1209. That's very interesting to me! You've reminded me of one of the first Hebrew words I learned: hesed (חֵסֵד = chesed). It not only conveys to us the meaning of "kindness" toward us through His own "loving" gesture, but it also conveys the meaning of COVENANT-KEEPING; that is, how God is willing to keep His end of the covenant even if we repeatedly break our end of that covenant and constantly come back to Him and renew our desire to commit to it. YHWH is a COVENANT-KEEPING God! Yes, this is true for His name is "Yeeshuwa`" which is Hebrew for "He shall save/rescue/deliver." And, that act He performed on the cross paved the way for us to receive God's justification as we make His death our Sacrifice for sin. Isaiah 53:4-11 (KJV) 4 Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted. 5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed. 6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all. 7 He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth. 8 He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken. 9 And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth. 10 Yet it pleased the LORD (YHWH) to bruise him (the Messiah); he (YHWH) hath put him (the Messiah) to grief: when thou shalt make his (the Messiah's) soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand. 11 He (YHWH) shall see of the travail of his (the Messiah's) soul (air-breather), and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities. And, David had already given us the good news in all of this: Psalm 16:8-11 (KJV) 8 "I have set the LORD always before me: because he is at my right hand, I shall not be moved. 9 "Therefore my heart is glad, and my glory rejoiceth: my flesh also shall rest in hope. 10 "For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell (Hebrew: נַפְשִׁ֣י לִשְׁאֹ֑ול = nafshiy lish'owl = "my-air-breather to-asked-about" or "my-air-breather to-the-grave"); neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption (Hebrew: לִרְאֹ֥ות שָֽׁחַת = lir'owt shaachat = "to-see decay"). 11 "Thou wilt shew me the path of life: in thy presence is fulness of joy; at thy right hand there are pleasures for evermore." He wouldn't be STAYING DEAD! His Father YHWH raised Him to life after three days and three nights. Peter recognized that these words were not just David talking but was actually a prophecy concerning David's Ultimate Heir to David's throne, the Messiah of God! Acts 2:22-36 (KJV) 22 "Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know: 23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain: 24 Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it. 25 "For David speaketh concerning him, "'I foresaw the Lord always before my face, for he is on my right hand, that I should not be moved: 26 Therefore did my heart rejoice, and my tongue was glad; moreover also my flesh shall rest in hope: 27 Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption. 28 Thou hast made known to me the ways of life; thou shalt make me full of joy with thy countenance.' (Psalm 16:8-11) 29 "Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day. 30 Therefore BEING A PROPHET, and KNOWING THAT GOD HAD SWORN WITH AN OATH TO HIM, that of (from) the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his (David's) throne; 31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that 'his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.' 32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses. 33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear. 34 "For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, "'The LORD (YHWH) said unto my Lord (# = Adoniy = "my-Sire"), Sit thou on my right hand, 35 Until I make thy foes thy footstool.' (Psalm 110:1) 36"Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus (Yeeshuwa`), whom ye have crucified, both Lord ("Master/Owner") and Christ ("Anointed One to be King")."

Shabbat Shalom, NConly. This shows the INTENT one should be willing to go to prevent offense against God's Law. I agree that God never expected one to go to that length, but one should seek every other way possible to avoid the offense, even this, if there was left to him or her no other way! First, one needs to properly define the word "ouranos" which is used in Matthew 4:17: Here's the Greek: 17 Ἀπὸ τότε ἤρξατο ὁ Ἰησοῦς κηρύσσειν καὶ λέγειν, Μετανοεῖτε· ἤγγικε γὰρ ἡ βασιλεία τῶν οὐρανῶν. Transliterated, this is ... 17 Apo tote eerxato ho Ieesous keerussein kai legein, Metanoeite; eeggike gar hee basileia toon ouranoon. Translated word-for-word recognizing that "toon ouranoon" is in the ablative case, we get ... 17 From then began the Yeeshuwa` to-herald and to-say, "Change-your-mind; has-drawn-near <-> for the kingdom from-the skies." Second, one must put this in context: Open this verse up to its context and see why Mattityahuw ("Matthew") writes this. Matthew 3:1-12 (KJV) 1 In those days came John the Baptist, preaching (Greek: κηρύσσων = keerussoon = "heralding" like a town cryer) in the wilderness of Judaea, 2 And saying, "Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand." (Greek: Μετανοεῖτε· ἤγγικε γὰρ ἡ βασιλεία τῶν οὐρανῶν. = Metanoeite; eeggike gar hee basileia toon ouranoon. = "Change-your-mind; has-drawn near <-> for the kingdom from-the skies.") 3 For this is he that was spoken of by the prophet Esaias (Isaiah or Yesha`yahuw), saying, "The voice of one crying in the wilderness, 'Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight.'" (Isaiah 40:3) 4 And the same John had his raiment of camel's hair, and a leathern girdle about his loins; and his meat was locusts and wild honey. 5 Then went out to him Jerusalem, and all Judaea, and all the region round about Jordan, 6 And were baptized of him in Jordan, confessing their sins. 7 But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, "O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come? 8 Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance: 9 And think not to say within yourselves, "'We have Abraham to our father' : "for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham. 10 And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. 11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire: 12 Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire." Then, we read of Yeeshuwa`s baptism (Βαπτισθεὶς = Baptistheis = He-having-been-immersed) and then His 40 days of temptation in 3:13-17 and 4:1-11. Then, we read, Matthew 4:12-17 (KJV) 12 Now when Jesus had heard that John was cast into prison, he departed into Galilee; 13 And leaving Nazareth, he came and dwelt in Capernaum (Kfar-Nachuwm), which is upon the sea coast, in the borders of Zabulon and Nephthalim: 14 That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Esaias the prophet, saying, 15 "The land of Zabulon, and the land of Nephthalim, by the way of the sea, beyond Jordan, Galilee of the Gentiles; 16 The people which sat in darkness saw great light; and to them which sat in the region and shadow of death light is sprung up." (Isaiah 9:1-2) 17 From that time Jesus began to preach (Greek: κηρύσσειν = keerussein = "to herald" as a town cryer), and to say, "Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand." So, Yeeshuwa` had to take up the SAME MESSAGE as His herald before Him, when He learned that Yochanan (John) had been locked up in prison.

Shalom, @R. Hartono. All the more reason to OUST this clownery!

Shabbat shalom, FJK. Actually, I can't say yes or no to "exploring the stars." I have a new theory, though. I believe that the reason why we keep looking farther and farther away and see more and more galaxies of stars, is because we are expanding through the details of a MASSIVE FRACTAL! So, we're now able to look so far away from the earth that we're looking BEYOND where the stars should be! This projects our reasoned age of the Big Bang BEYOND when the Big Bang was thought to be! Now what?! The deeper into space we peer, the more we see new galaxies of stars! Look deeper, and there's MORE galaxies of stars! EVERY TIME we look deeper into space, we don't reach an end! We just see more galaxies! It's just like when one zooms in on a fractal pattern: The deeper we go, the more we see the same intricacies of the pattern! Here's a good example: movie of zooming in on a fractal. This is SEVENTEEN MINUTES of zooming in on this Mandelbrot Fractal pattern! The deeper one goes, the more the pattern is repeated! I believe we're experiencing the same thing with our telescopes. We were created in the SAME WEEK as the dry land was created and called "Earth." We were created to live upon the earth, and the earth was created to support land animals and mankind!

LOL!!! Are you KIDDING?! Oh, my friend! The WORLD will be your playground! The whole EARTH will be wherever you'd like to roam! You will be a NEW BODY, an immortal, incorruptible, glowing body that will NEVER grow old again and will NEVER die! Furthermore, the New Jerusalem is FAR from a "giant prison!" It is a LITERAL CITY with all the hustle and bustle that goes on in a city! Have you ever read Revelation 21:1-22:5? That's not just someone's imagination nor is it "figurative speech." If the Roman stade, which is the same as the Greek "stadion" is 607.14222... feet in length (as recorded on all the Roman mile markers scattered throughout Europe and wherever the Roman Empire thrived), then 12,000 stadia will be ... 12,000 stad x 607.14222... ft/stad x 1 mi/5280 ft = 1,379.868686... miles long, wide, and high! When one considers that Mount Everest is only 5 and a half miles high, this city will DWARF Mount Everest! Since this present SECOND earth is roughly the same size as the earth before the Flood, I assume that the New Earth - the THIRD earth - will have roughly the same dimensions as we measure them today. That means that the radius of the earth at the equator will be approximately the same, and currently it is 3963.188942 miles in length. That gives the earth's circumference to be 24,901.4295 miles at the equator. That means that the New Jerusalem will cover ... 1379.868686 miles/24901.4295 miles x 360 degrees = 19.94876 degrees! That's just under 20 degrees! That means that "down" on one side of the city will be 20 degrees different than "down" on the opposite side of the city, and that both sides are 10 degrees different than "down" in the center of the city! Since a timezone is about 1,037.55956 miles, this city will have its east and west sides in different timezones! This is just ONE, HUGE CITY! We won't be "locked in a big box!" We can go in and out through the twelve gates at our leisure! In fact, I believe that we will be sent to other areas on missions for our King. We may also serve in capacity of reigning over a city or country and report back to Him regularly. That would be a GREAT honor!

Shabbat shalom (A Sabbath of peace) to you, Kristina! Welcome to Worthy! Thank you for that question; it's a very important one. "Falling short of grace" simply means coming close to the Grace of God given in one's life, but never achieving that outcome because one does not "follow through." God's Grace is MORE THAN SUFFICIENT for the needs of any individual. But, one must ASK God to apply that Grace to his or her own life. "God be merciful to me a sinner." (Luke 18:13). First, we need to understand what "grace" is and what is "GOD'S Grace." "Grace" in the New Testament is the word used to translate the Greek word "charis" from which we get our word "charity." Strong's Concordance defines it as ... 5485 charis χάρις, ιτος, ἡ (khar'-ece). From chairoo; graciousness (as gratifying), of manner or act (abstract or concrete; literal, figurative or spiritual; especially the divine influence upon the heart, and its reflection in the life; including gratitude): -- acceptable, benefit, favour, gift, grace(- ious), joy, liberality, pleasure, thank(-s, -worthy). It can be summed up in the translation words "kindness" and "thankfulness." Also, it's usage is ... (a) grace, as a gift or blessing brought to man by Jesus Christ, (b) favor, (c) gratitude, thanks, (d) a favor, kindness. Some have said that God's grace is "unmerited favor." In other words, it is God's favor shown to us that we did not earn. God gave us His OWN SON to die on our behalf - as our "Sin" - that we could be named "His own Righteousness," which was demonstrated in His Son. This is called "the Great Exchange" (2 Corinthians 5:21). This is how God made it possible for Him to "reconcile" us by taking our place in judgment and sentencing, and this is how He "justifies" us. Others use the word as an acronym to provide a simplified explanation: God's Redeption At Christ's Expense. So, "falling short" of that, is not "following through" and receiving His Grace because we don't make His Son's death our "sacrifice for our sins." Isaiah 53:6-11 (KJV) 6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all. 7 He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth. 8 He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken. 9 And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth. 10 Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; HE hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand. 11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant (Yeeshuwa` or Jesus) justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities. Hope that clears it up for you. Does it?