Retrobyter

Shalom, @Luther. Oh, no, no, no, .... David is NOT "symbolic for Christ"! He WAS a "christ!" He WAS an "anointed one!" Nor, is Abraham "symbolic for God!" Where'd you get THAT notion? No, both David and Shlomoh ("Solomon") were ones anointed by God to be King of Israel. Even "Sha'uwl" ("Saul") was one of God's anointed ones = messiahs = christs. They just weren't THE ULTIMATE Messiah or Christ of God, the One who would "reign forever and of His Kingdom there would be no end!" Yeeshuwa` had His ORIGIN in God, but He called Himself (at best), the "SON of God." (Usually, He called Himself, "the Son of man," meaning a "Son of Adam," or a "Human Being.") This should come as no surprise because of the Davidic Covenant: 2 Samuel 7:1-17 (KJV) 1 And it came to pass, when the king sat in his house, and the LORD had given him rest round about from all his enemies; 2 That the king said unto Nathan the prophet, "See now, I dwell in an house of cedar, but the ark of God dwelleth within curtains!" 3 And Nathan said to the king, "Go, do all that [is] in thine heart; for the LORD [is] with thee." 4 And it came to pass that night, that the word of the LORD came unto Nathan, saying, 5 "Go and tell my servant David, "'Thus saith the LORD, "'"Shalt THOU build ME an house for me to dwell in? 6 Whereas I have not dwelt in [any] house since the time that I brought up the children of Israel out of Egypt, even to this day, but have walked in a tent and in a tabernacle. 7 In all [the places] wherein I have walked with all the children of Israel spake I a word with any of the tribes of Israel, whom I commanded to feed my people Israel, saying, 'Why build ye not me an house of cedar?' "' 8 "Now therefore so shalt thou say unto my servant David, "'Thus saith the LORD of hosts, "'"I took thee from the sheepcote, from following the sheep, to be ruler over my people, over Israel: 9 And I was with thee whithersoever thou wentest, and have cut off all thine enemies out of thy sight, and have made thee a great name, like unto the name of the great [men] that [are] in the earth. 10 Moreover I will appoint a place for my people Israel, and will plant them, that they may dwell in a place of their own, and move no more; neither shall the children of wickedness afflict them any more, as beforetime, 11 And as since the time that I commanded judges [to be] over my people Israel, and have caused thee to rest from all thine enemies." "'Also the LORD telleth thee that HE will make THEE an house. 12 "'"And when thy days be fulfilled, and thou shalt sleep with thy fathers, I will set up thy Seed after thee, which shall proceed out of thy bowels, and I will establish his kingdom. 13 He shall build an house for my name, and I will stablish the throne of his kingdom for ever. 14 I WILL BE HIS FATHER, AND HE SHALL BE MY SON. If he commit (be twisted into) iniquity, I will chasten him with the rod of men, and with the stripes of the children of men: (This happened in His death on the cross.) 15 BUT my mercy shall not depart away from him, as I took [it] from Saul, whom I put away before thee. 16 And thine house and thy kingdom shall be established for ever before thee: thy throne shall be established for ever."'" 17 According to all these words, and according to all this vision, so did Nathan speak unto David. 1 Chronicles 17 says almost the same thing verbatim! Notice that God did NOT say, "I will be LIKE His Father and He shall be LIKE my Son"; He said "I WILL BE HIS FATHER, AND HE SHALL BE MY SON!" And, we learn from two sources that that was how He was born: Luke 1:30-31 (KJV) 30 And the angel (Gabriel) said unto her, "Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God. 31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS (Greek: Ἰησοῦς = Ieesous = Hebrew: יֵשׁוּעַ = Yeeshuwa` = "He shall save/deliver/rescue"). 32 He shall be great, and shall be called THE SON OF THE HIGHEST: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David: 33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end." John 1:1-15 (KJV) 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. 4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men. 5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not. 6 There was a man sent from God, whose name [was] John. 7 The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all [men] through him might believe. 8 He was not that Light, but [was sent] to bear witness of that Light. 9 [That] was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world. 10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not. 11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not. 12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, [even] to them that believe on his name: 13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. 14 And THE WORD WAS MADE FLESH, AND DWELT AMONG US, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of THE ONLY BEGOTTEN OF THE FATHER,) full of grace and truth. 15 John bare witness of him, and cried, saying, "This was he of whom I spake, He that cometh after me is preferred before me: for he was before me." (Yochanan the Immerser or "John the Baptist" was born about six months BEFORE Yeeshuwa` was born; so, he recognized Yeeshuwa`s ORIGIN!) Really?! Was God not "Triune" when He made the first Covenant with the children of Israel? And, that was ENTIRELY relevant to God's People, the children of Israel! The giving of the Law of God was at Mount Sinai, and Mosheh ("Moses") brought it down to them off the mountain. God SPOKE TO THEM AUDIBLY and announced the Covenant with them, and they agreed, "All that God has said, we will do!" And, that covenant was made with blood, by which God makes EVERY covenant with the ones He loves. Apparently, one may not know that the New Covenant is not made with Gentiles but with the children of Israel: Jeremiah 31:31-34 (KJV) 31 "Behold, the days come," saith the LORD, "that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: 32 Not according to the covenant that I made with THEIR FATHERS in the day [that] I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them," saith the LORD: 33 "But this [shall be] the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days," saith the LORD, "I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. 34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, 'Know the LORD': for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them," saith the LORD: "for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more." Same "Law," but it will be written "in their inward parts" and "in their hearts," the CORE of their thinking. Now, we who are Gentiles can be GRAFFED INTO that "Olive Tree," as Paul put it in Romans 11, but we become a PART of God's "Olive Tree," the nation of the children of Israel through the adoption and through God making us "accepted in the Beloved" (Ephesians 1:6), the "Beloved," of course, being His Beloved Son. We become a PART of God's Family through His Son! We are the branches from a "wild olive tree" = an "oleaster tree," as opposed to a true "olive tree." 1 John 5:1-5 (KJV) 1 Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ (the Messiah or the Anointed of God) is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat (God the Father) loveth him also that is begotten of him (the Son of God, Yeeshuwa` or Jesus). 2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments. 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous. 4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, [even] our faith. 5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God? 1 John 3:18-24 (KJV) 18 My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth. 19 And hereby we know that we are of the truth, and shall assure our hearts before him. 20 For if our heart condemn us, God is greater than our heart, and knoweth all things. 21 Beloved, if our heart condemn us not, [then] have we confidence toward God. 22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight. 23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment. 24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us. Now, Yeeshuwa` taught that the two greatest commandments were these: Matthew 22:37-40 (KJV) 37 Jesus said unto him, "Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second [is] like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets." So, John was equating "believing on the name of His (God's) Son Jesus Christ" with "loving the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind." That's how much He loves His Son! And, that's how easy it will be for the children of Israel to be graffed into their own Olive Tree! 1 John 3:1-3 (KJV) 1 Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called THE SONS OF GOD: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not. 2 Beloved, NOW are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. 3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure. BUT, we Gentiles, who call ourselves "Christians," are NOT the primary recipients of that Promise! We are just the first to participate in the Promise made to the children of Israel! But, they, too, will be graffed back into that Olive Tree as the NATURAL branches - branches with the same genetic make-up as the Root of the tree! See, THIS is where one is "BOASTING AGAINST THE NATURAL BRANCHES!" This passage of Scripture is written EXACTLY against one who believes this way: Romans 11:11-32 (KJV) 11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should (permanently) fall? God forbid: but [rather] through their (temporary) fall salvation [is come] unto the Gentiles (Christians, for the most part today), for to provoke them (the children of Israel) to jealousy. 12 Now if the (temporary) fall of them [be] the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness? 13 For I speak to YOU Gentiles (CHRISTIANS), inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office: 14 If by any means I may provoke to emulation [them which are] my flesh, and might save some of them. 15 For IF THE CASTING AWAY OF THEM [BE] THE RECONCILING OF THE WORLD, WHAT [SHALL] THE RECEIVING [OF THEM BE], BUT LIFE FROM THE DEAD? 16 For if the firstfruit [be] holy, the lump [is] also [holy]: and if the root (Yeeshuwa` or "Jesus") [be] holy, SO [ARE] THE BRANCHES. 17 And if SOME of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in AMONG THEM, and WITH THEM partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree; 18 BOAST NOT AGAINST THE BRANCHES. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee. 19 Thou wilt say then, "The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in." 20 Well; BECAUSE OF UNBELIEF they were broken off, and THOU STANDEST BY FAITH. Be not highminded, but FEAR: 21 For if God spared not THE NATURAL BRANCHES, [take heed] lest he also spare not THEE! 22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, IF thou continue in [his] goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off! 23 And THEY ALSO, if they abide not still in unbelief, SHALL BE GRAFFED IN: for God is able to graff them in again. 24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature (an oleaster bush or tree), and wert graffed CONTRARY TO NATURE into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be THE NATURAL [BRANCHES], be graffed into THEIR OWN OLIVE TREE? 25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that BLINDNESS IN PART IS HAPPENED TO ISRAEL, UNTIL THE FULNESS OF THE GENTILES BE COME IN. 26 And so ALL ISRAEL SHALL BE SAVED: as it is written, "There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: 27 For this [is] my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins." (Isaiah 59:20,21; 27:9 (see Septuagint); Jeremiah 31:33,34) 28 As concerning the gospel, [they are] enemies for your sakes: BUT as touching the election (the Chosen Ones), [they are] BELOVED for the fathers' sakes. 29 For the gifts and calling of God [are] without repentance. (I.e., God doesn't change His mind about His gifts and calling! He doesn't renege on His promises!) 30 For as ye (Gentile Christians) in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief: 31 Even so have these also now not believed, that THROUGH YOUR MERCY THEY ALSO MAY OBTAIN MERCY. 32 For God hath concluded them ALL in unbelief, that he might have MERCY UPON ALL. I am a Jew, whether by blood (my maternal grandmother told me her mother was a Jew) or through God's Adoption being in His Son, Yeeshuwa`, I AM in the tribe of Yhudah or "Judah." But then, SO ARE YOU! I am FULLY "happy with Yeeshuwa` the Messiah!" I just know that His "being the Messiah" means that it entails SO MUCH MORE than "Christian" churches are teaching today! What was taught in the Old Testament IS NOT LOST! Yeeshuwa` SHALL be the King of Israel, and as His Kingdom grows, the "King of kings," a title for a WORLD EMPEROR! That part should have NEVER been lost by modern "Christians!"

Shalom, @Luther. Sorry, brother, but the Author is ON THE SAME PAGE as the authors to whom He gave the mandate to WRITE His Word. He GAVE them the words, COMMANDING them to say and to write what He gave them! The prophets were given a heart to understand God's purpose in the writing! I would suggest that the PROPHETS were the "aggeloi" or "angels" to whom Peter was referring in 1 Peter 1:12: 1 Peter 1:3-21 (KJV) 3 Blessed [be] the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ (our Master, Yeeshuwa` the Messiah), which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ (Yeeshuwa` the Messiah) from the dead, 4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven (in the skies) for you, 5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation (deliverand; rescue) ready to be revealed IN THE LAST TIME. 6 Wherein ye greatly rejoice, though now for a season, if need be, ye are in heaviness through manifold temptations: 7 That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ: 8 Whom having not seen, ye love; in whom, though now ye see [him] not, yet believing, ye rejoice with joy unspeakable and full of glory: 9 Receiving the end of your faith, [even] the salvation of [your] souls (the deliverance or rescue of your air-breathing bodies). 10 Of which salvation (deliverance; rescue) the PROPHETS have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace [that should come] unto you: 11 Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow. 12 Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the ANGELS (Greek: ἄγγελοι = aggeloi = MESSENGERS) desire (also translated "covet, lust, lust after") to look into. (What are "prophets" if not "MESSENGERS" for God to His people? This tells me that the prophets weren't told everything, and they desired to find out more about what they were prophesying, not understanding everything they said and wrote about! And, they seem to have ENVIED us, unto whom they did deliver the things now part of the good news that was heralded to us. They just wished they would have been a PART of what they were prophesying!) 13 Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope (be confident) to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation (the Second Coming) of Jesus Christ; 14 As obedient children, not fashioning yourselves according to the former lusts in your ignorance: 15 But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation (lifestyle); 16 Because it is written, "Be ye holy; for I am holy." (Leviticus 11:44, 45; 19:2) 17 And if ye call on the Father, who WITHOUT RESPECT OF PERSONS JUDGETH ACCORDING TO EVERY MAN'S WORK, pass the time of your sojourning [here] in fear: 18 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, [as] silver and gold, from your vain conversation [received] by tradition from your fathers; 19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot: 20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest IN THESE LAST TIMES for you, 21 Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God (the Father). I would encourage you to find a church that will be a group with whom you can agree on the major points of Justification by God, and the growth of the individuals in the Image of the Messiah (the Christ). You may not agree with all that is taught by the leadership, but PRAY for them! Work WITH them to bring them into alignment with God's Word. I belong to a church whose leadership I don't always agree with, but I KNOW that they believe in the "salvation" (God's justification) message, and LONG for His Revival to be working in our small church! The Plymouth Brethren did just that back in the 1800s. It can work in a limited way, but other churches were strong enough back then to introduce the justification by God to the masses at that time. And, it was during that time that the Great Revivals happened. It wasn't BECAUSE of the Plymouth Brethren, but the Plymouth Brethren had liberty to work out their theological stances at that time. You MAY have that opportunity, for there appears to be a NEW Revival movement growing in the world! Personally, I want to encourage my church to read the Bible in large chunks at a time. I believe that the more that one reads His Word, the more likely that he or she will understand His Word better. I would like to see a church meeting or two in which NOTHING is said ABOUT the Scriptures, but just have a book of the Bible read aloud. We could even take turns reading through the book. How much deeper would we understand that book?! Some of the things I believe, they don't, and that's okay. God will straighten us all out after the Messiah has returned, for I believe that EVERY human being, myself included, has errors in what they believe. He or she who doesn't believe that they have any errors is fooling himself or herself, and is not being honest.

Shabbat shalom, @Luther. That's a good question. I think the solution is that He doesn't SAY that He will "take all His children, His sheep, His chosen ones home, safe and seure in His eternal home in Heaven." Where did He say that? Don't say John 14 because He didn't say it there: John 13:31-14:31 (KJV) 31 Therefore, when he (Judas Iscariot) was gone out, Jesus said, "Now is the Son of man glorified, and God is glorified in him. 32 If God be glorified in him, God shall also glorify him in himself, and shall straightway glorify him. 33 Little children, yet a little while I am with you. Ye shall seek me: and as I said unto the Jews, 'Whither I go, ye cannot come'; so now I say to you. 34 A new commandment I give unto you, 'That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.' 35 By this shall all [men] know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another." 36 Simon Peter said unto him, "Lord, whither goest thou?" ("Master, where are you going?") Jesus answered him, "Whither I go, thou canst not follow me now; but thou shalt follow me afterwards." 37 Peter said unto him, "Lord, why cannot I follow thee now? I will lay down my life for thy sake!" 38 Jesus answered him, "Wilt thou 'lay down thy life for my sake?' Verily, verily, I say unto thee, 'The cock shall not crow, till thou hast denied me thrice.' "1 LET NOT YOUR HEART BE TROUBLED: ye believe in God, believe also in me. 2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if [it were] not [so], I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, [there] ye may be also. 4 And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know." (Notice: He did NOT say He would be taking us to His Father's house! He said, "I will come again, and receive you unto myself!" Well, where will He be when He returns? Won't He be BACK ON EARTH?) 5 Thomas saith unto him, "Lord, we know not whither thou goest; and how can we know the way?" ("Master, we don't know where you're going, so how can we know the path to take?") 6 Jesus saith unto him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. 7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him." 8 Philip saith unto him, "Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us." ("Master, show us the Father, and that'll be enough.") 9 Jesus saith unto him, "Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou [then], 'Shew us the Father'? 10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works. 11 Believe me that (because) I [am] in the Father, and the Father in me: OR else believe me for the very works' sake. 12 "Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater [works] than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father. 13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name (on my authority), that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14 If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do [it]. 15 "If ye love me, keep my commandments. 16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; 17 [Even] the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. 18 I will not leave you comfortless: I WILL COME TO YOU. 19 "Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also. (This is the Resurrection to come.) 20 At that day ye shall know that I [am] in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you. 21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him." 22 Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, "Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world?" 23 Jesus answered and said unto him, "If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. 24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me. 25 "These things have I spoken unto you, being [yet] present with you. 26 But the Comforter, [which is] the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you. 27 Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. LET NOT YOUR HEART BE TROUBLED, neither let it be afraid. 28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, 'I go away, and come [again] unto you.' If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, 'I go unto the Father': for my Father is greater than I. 29 And now I have told you before it come to pass, that, when it is come to pass, ye might believe. 30 Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me. 31 But that the world may know that I love the Father; and as the Father gave me commandment, even so I do. Arise, let us go hence." MUCH LATER, Yochanan ("John") said, Revelation 21:1-4 (KJV) 1 And I saw a new heaven (sky) and a new earth: for the first heaven (sky) and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. 2 And I John saw the holy city, NEW JERUSALEM, coming down from God out of heaven (out of the sky), prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, "Behold, the tabernacle of God [is] with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, [and be] their God. 4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away." So, God's "house," the New Jerusalem - His "Bedouin tent," the Greek word "σκηνὴ " or "skeenee," also used in the plural for AVraham's "tents" in Hebrews 11:9 - will be coming down TO US, landing (because it "comes ... out of the sky") upon the New Earth! So, did He say it anywhere else? See, the problem is that there IS NO "Heaven" to which one can go! The "third heaven" of 2 Corinthians 12:1-4 is CHRONOLOGICALLY "third," NOT SPATIALLY "third!" This can be seen from Peter's words in 2 Peter 3:3-13. The word "ouranos" means the "sky": G3772 οὐρανός ouranós, oo-ran-os'; perhaps from the same as G3735 (through the idea of elevation); the sky; by extension, heaven (as the abode of God); by implication, happiness, power, eternity; specially, the Gospel (Christianity): —air, heaven(-ly), sky. The "first heaven" was the sky before the Flood. The destruction of the Flood even greatly affected the earth's sky, as much as it affected the earth's ground. The "second heaven" is the current sky slated for destruction in the Fire that will come at the end of the 1,000 years of Satan's incarceration. After the Fire, the "third heaven" will be the sky above the New Earth, the "new heaven," and it will be eternal. There's another word that is used without understanding. The word "salvation" is the wrong word for God's justification of an individual. The word "salvation" means "deliverance" or a "rescue," and in all the prophecies, that word refers to the "deliverance" or "rescue" of NATIONAL ISRAEL! Absolutely! The issue is WHERE will He "win in the end." He won't "win" in some ethereal place called "Heaven"; He will "win" UPON THIS EARTH (remade, of course), and He will reign upon it forever, as was said in the Davidic Covenant of 2 Samuel 7 and 1 Chronicles 17 and in the words said about Yeeshuwa`s life by the messenger Gabriel to Mary before His conception! "He will reign FROM DAVID'S THRONE forever, and of His Kingdom there will be NO END!"

Shabbat shalom, @Luther. Verses? You mean to say "WHOLE PASSAGES of Scripture," don't you? READ THE WHOLE BOOKS OF THE BIBLE, preferably in a single sitting, if possible! It may take some time, but we all eke out as much time as we want for those things that we find important to do, and isn't God's Word important? Isn't reading God's Word important? Let it SPEAK TO YOU! Don't go trying to put words in the authors' mouths, either. One must avoid "eisogesis," that is, reading INTO the Scriptures what one WANTS it to mean. One should be using "EXEGESIS" instead! Getting one's teaching "OUT FROM" the AUTHOR'S viewpoint! And, the human author, being God's prophet, is NOT going to contradict the true Author of Scriptures, neither is the true Author, God, going to allow His Word to be contrary to what He put in the human author's mind to write! Could it be that those verses (and WHOLE PASSAGES of Scripture) aren't supposed to be read as "allegorical language?" Anytime one must say, "Well, this ... REALLY means that ...," one is DOOMED to failure! Furthermore, the New Testament books do NOT contradict the Old Testament books! They work TOGETHER! The New Testament books give more detail to the Old, and the Old give the foundations for the New! They are ALL written ultimately by the SAME, UNCHANGEABLE GOD Who has unfolded His immutable truths down through time!

Shabbat shalom, @truth7t7 and you, too, @Luther. Those of us who know that there will be future Kingdom of the Messiah, which will graduate to be a Kingdom of the Father Himself, after the first 1,000 years, simply don't neglect to accept that information! It's not just "zip - kablooey - done!" There are STAGES to His "end," which is NOT "the end," as in a true fairy tale, but is ONLY "THE BEGINNING!" GOD DOES NOT LOSE IN "HIS BID" FOR HIS CREATION!!! He WINS! COMPLETELY! He will RE-CREATE this world as a "New Heaven (Sky) and a New Earth" "wherein will dwell righteousness" (2 Peter 3:13 and Revelation 21:1-2), and "there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it;" (Revelation 22:3) And, we don't just see this in Revelation 20-22 and 2 Peter 3, but it is also seen QUITE CLEARLY (to those who have eyes) in 1 Corinthians 15, the RESURRECTION CHAPTER: Remembering that Paul is writing about the Resurrections, 1 Corinthians 15:20-28 (KJV) 20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, [and] become the firstfruits of them that slept. 21 For since by man [came] death, by man [came] also the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23 But every man in his own order: (0) Christ the firstfruits (which is a SINGULAR Greek word, even though the English translation adds an "s"); (1) afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. (This matches Revelation 6:9-11:15; just Who do you think is judging the world on His Father's behalf, and THIS WILL TAKE TIME! According to John, it will take a thousand years PLUS, for He comes BEFORE haSatan is locked away for a thousand years!) (2) Then [cometh] the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. (This matches Revelation 11:15-20:15.) 25 For he (Christ; the Messiah) must reign, till he (God) hath put all enemies under his (the Son's) feet. 26 The last enemy [that] shall be destroyed [is] death. (This in particular matches Revelation 20:14.) 27 "For he hath put all things under his feet." (Psalm 8:6). {But when he saith "all things are put under [him," it is] manifest (revealed; obvious) that "he" (God the Father) is excepted, which did "put all things under him (the Son, His Christ or Messiah)."} 28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God (the Father) may be all in all. (This matches Revelation 21:1-22:5.) FURTHERMORE, we see this also within the prophecies of the Tanakh (the OT), especially Isaiah, Ezekiel, and Zechariah: Isaiah 60:1-15 (KJV) 1 Arise, shine; for thy light is come, and the glory of the LORD is risen upon thee. 2 For, behold, the darkness shall cover the earth, and gross darkness the people: but the LORD shall arise upon thee, and his glory shall be seen upon thee. 3 And the Gentiles shall come to thy light, and kings to the brightness of thy rising. 4 Lift up thine eyes round about, and see: all they gather themselves together, they come to thee: thy sons shall come from far, and thy daughters shall be nursed at thy side. 5 Then thou shalt see, and flow together, and thine heart shall fear, and be enlarged; because the abundance of the sea shall be converted unto thee, the forces of the Gentiles shall come unto thee. 6 The multitude of camels shall cover thee, the dromedaries of Midian and Ephah; all they from Sheba shall come: they shall bring gold and incense; and they shall shew forth the praises of the LORD. 7 All the flocks of Kedar shall be gathered together unto thee, the rams of Nebaioth shall minister unto thee: they shall come up with acceptance on mine altar, and I will glorify the house of my glory. 8 Who are these that fly as a cloud, and as the doves to their windows? 9 "Surely the isles shall wait for me, and the ships of Tarshish first, to bring thy sons from far, their silver and their gold with them, unto the name of the LORD thy God, and to the Holy One of Israel, because he hath glorified thee. 10 And the sons of strangers shall build up thy walls, and their kings shall minister unto thee: for in my wrath I smote thee, but in my favour have I had mercy on thee. 11 "Therefore thy gates shall be open continually; they shall not be shut day nor night; that men may bring unto thee the forces of the Gentiles, and that their kings may be brought. 12 "For the nation and kingdom that will not serve thee shall perish; yea, those nations shall be utterly wasted. 13 "The glory of Lebanon shall come unto thee, the fir tree, the pine tree, and the box together, to beautify the place of my sanctuary; and I will make the place of my feet glorious. 14 "The sons also of them that afflicted thee shall come bending unto thee; and all they that despised thee shall bow themselves down at the soles of thy feet; and they shall call thee, 'The city of the LORD, The Zion of the Holy One of Israel.' 15 "Whereas thou hast been forsaken and hated, so that no man went through thee, I will make thee an ETERNAL excellency, a joy of many generations." Read the rest of Isaiah! IT is, after all, a SINGLE PROPHECY! Ezekiel 37:11-14 (KJV) 1 Then he said unto me, "Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel: behold, they say, 'Our bones are dried, and our hope is lost: we are cut off for our parts.' 12 Therefore prophesy and say unto them, "'Thus saith the Lord GOD; "'"Behold, O my people, I will open your graves, and cause you to come up out of your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel. 13 And ye shall know that I [am] the LORD, when I have opened your graves, O my people, and brought you up out of your graves, 14 And shall put my spirit in you, and ye shall live, and I shall place you in your own land: then shall ye know that I the LORD have spoken [it], and performed [it]," saith the LORD.'" And, it goes on from there! Read the WHOLE rest of the book! It ALL comes true! Zechariah 14:1-21 (KJV) 1 "Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee. 2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city. 3 Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle." 4 And his (the Messiah's) feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south. 5 "And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee. 6 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the light shall not be clear, nor dark: 7 But it shall be one day which shall be known to the LORD, not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, that at evening time it shall be light." 8 And it shall be in that day, that living (flowing, moving, rushing) waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea (the Dead Sea), and half of them toward the hinder sea (the Mediterranean Sea): in summer and in winter shall it be. 9 And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one. 10 All the land shall be turned as a plain from Geba to Rimmon south of Jerusalem: and it shall be lifted up, and inhabited in her place, from Benjamin's gate unto the place of the first gate, unto the corner gate, and from the tower of Hananeel unto the king's winepresses. 11 And men shall dwell in it, and there shall be no more utter destruction; but Jerusalem shall be safely inhabited. 12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the LORD will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth. 13 And it shall come to pass in that day, that a great tumult from the LORD shall be among them; and they shall lay hold every one on the hand of his neighbour, and his hand shall rise up against the hand of his neighbour. 14 And Judah also shall fight at Jerusalem; and the wealth of all the heathen round about shall be gathered together, gold, and silver, and apparel, in great abundance. 15 And so shall be the plague of the horse, of the mule, of the camel, and of the ass, and of all the beasts that shall be in these tents, as this plague. 16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles. 17 And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain. 18 And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the LORD will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles. 19 This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles. 20 In that day shall there be upon the bells of the horses, "HOLINESS UNTO THE LORD"; and the pots in the LORD'S house shall be like the bowls before the altar. 21 Yea, every pot in Jerusalem and in Judah shall be holiness unto the LORD of hosts: and all they that sacrifice shall come and take of them, and seethe therein: and in that day there shall be no more the Canaanite in the house of the LORD of hosts. All of this likewise shall be fulfilled JUST AS PROMISED! One may NOT pull a verse from here and there and expect to be understanding the Scriptures!

Shabbat shalom, to all. Just to bring this back to the forefront and to add a few details, I'm "resurrecting" this topic. So, from all the research and definitions, my conclusion is that "Heaven" with a capital "H" is a misnomer. The true "heaven" is "the sky"; particularly, the atmosphere around our planet called "the air!" We don't "go to Heaven" when we die any more than did David, according to Keefa or "Peter" in Acts 2. Instead, we rest in the CONFIDENCE that we shall be resurrected at the Messiah Yeeshuwa`s return when He arrives THROUGH and FROM "the sky," indicating that He shall LAND. Now, here is the account of what happened when God's Spirit ("Wind" or "Voice") came upon His disciples on the Fiftieth Day of "counting the omer" after the Passover season. So, think like a Jew would have thought on this day, the day of the remembrance of God giving the Law to the children of Israel, and NOW, He is giving them His Spirit, His Wind, His VOICE: Acts 2:1-47 (KJV) 1 And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place. 2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting. 3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them. 4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues (languages), as the Spirit (Wind or Voice) gave them utterance. 5 And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven (the sky). 6 Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language. 7 And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, "Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans (known by their dress and mannerisms)? 8 And how hear we every man in our own tongue (language), wherein we were born? 9 Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia, 10 Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes, 11 Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues (languages) the wonderful works of God." 12 And they were all amazed, and were in doubt, saying one to another, "What meaneth this?" 13 Others mocking said, "These men are full of new wine." 14 But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, "Ye men of Judaea, and all [ye] that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words: 15 For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is [but] the third hour of the day. 16 But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel; 17 "'"And it shall come to pass in the last days," saith God, "I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams: 18 And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy: 19 And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke: 20 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come: 21 And it shall come to pass, [that] whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved."' (Joel 2:28-32). 22 "Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus (Yeeshuwa`) of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know: 23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain: 24 Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it. 25 For David speaketh concerning him, "'I foresaw the Lord always before my face, for he is on my right hand, that I should not be moved: 26 Therefore did my heart rejoice, and my tongue was glad; moreover also my flesh shall rest in hope: 27 Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption. 28 Thou hast made known to me the ways of life; thou shalt make me full of joy with thy countenance.' (Psalm 16:8-11). (Note: This CONFIRMS that the Resurrected One is God's "Messiah.") 29 "Men [and] brethren, let me freely speak unto you of THE PATRIARCH DAVID, THAT HE IS BOTH DEAD AND BURIED, AND HIS SEPULCHRE IS WITH US UNTO THIS DAY. 30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him (the Davidic Covenant), that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he (God) would raise up Christ (the Messiah) to sit on his (David's) throne; 31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ (the Messiah), that 'his soul (His air-breathing body) was not left in hell (in the grave), neither his flesh did see corruption.' 32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses. 33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear. 34 "For DAVID IS NOT ASCENDED INTO THE HEAVENS: but he saith himself, "'The LORD (God) said unto my Lord (my Master), "'"Sit thou on my right hand, 35 Until I make thy foes thy footstool."' (Psalm 110:1) (Again, note: This CONFIRMS that God's Messiah is David's "Lord!") 36 "Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus (Yeeshuwa`), whom ye have crucified, both Lord (Owner; Master) and Christ (Messiah; the One Anointed by God to be King)!" 37 Now when they heard [this], they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, "Men [and] brethren, what shall we do?" 38 Then Peter said unto them, "Repent (Turn around 180 degrees away from your sins), and be baptized (be immersed) every one of you in the name (on the authority) of Jesus Christ (Yeeshuwa` the Messiah) for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost (Wind, Voice). 39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, [even] as many as the Lord our God shall call." 40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, "Save (Rescue) yourselves from this untoward generation!" 41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized (immersed): and the same day there were added [unto them] about three thousand (3,000) souls. 42 And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers. 43 And fear came upon every soul: and many wonders and signs were done by the apostles. 44 And all that believed were together, and had all things common; 45 And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all [men], as every man had need. 46 And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart, 47 Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church (the group of "called-out" people) daily such as should be saved (rescued). (Just as a reminder, about a year or two ago, I started to use colors to describe the different speakers in a quote: I use GREEN for narration, ROYAL PURPLE for the words of YHWH God, RED for the words of a messiah, one anointed by God, particularly THE Messiah of God, and BLUE for the words of anyone else.) Peter said these things 50 days after the Resurrection! So, David is still "dead and buried" and in "his sepulcher." However it was David's HOPE - David's CONFIDENCE - that he, too, would be resurrected. He was said to sing these words: 2 Samuel 23:1-5 (KJV) 1 Now these [be] the last words of David. David the son of Jesse said, and the man [who was] raised up on high, the anointed of the God of Jacob, and the sweet psalmist of Israel, said, 2 "The Spirit of the LORD spake by me, and his word [was] in my tongue. 3 The God of Israel said, the Rock of Israel spake to me, "'He that ruleth over men [must be] just, ruling in the fear of God. 4 And [he shall be] as the light of the morning, [when] the sun riseth, [even] a morning without clouds; [as] the tender grass [springing] out of the earth by clear shining after rain.' 5 "Although my house [be] not so with God; yet he hath made WITH ME an everlasting covenant, ordered in all [things], and sure: for [this is] all my salvation, and all [my] desire, although he make [it] not to grow." When Paul spoke of a "third heaven," in 2 Corinthians 12:1-4, he was talking about a CHRONOLOGICALLY third "sky" that will exist around the New Earth after the Fire and the Second Resurrection and Great White Throne Judgment. Peter confirms this in 2 Peter 3:3-13, the "first heaven" being before the Flood, and the "second heaven" in which we now live and breathe. It is to THIS "heaven" or "sky" to which we should look forward! THIS "third sky" - a NEW Sky - we should be anticipating!

Shalom, @Anne2, and all. Thank you for your explanations. However, one must work all truths together to form a complete work of God's promises. NOTHING God has promised will fail or "fall to the ground!" I think this is why many Christians have a problem with the later chapters of Ezekiel 40-48. For all that the Messiah has accomplished, there are still promises made to the children of Israel that cannot be ignored. Furthermore, they are quite DETAILED promises that God has made that have never been realized to this day! Some try to explain this away saying they were "conditional" promises that won't be fulfilled because the children of Israel didn't do their part, but if one will look closely at the promises made, particularly in Ezekiel, who was a priest btw, these are NOT promises made in a "conditional" way, nor is that made a requirement. They are a true PROPHECY of what is to come! Knowing that God spake through David, Shlomoh, Ysha`yaahuw, Yirmyaahuw, Ychezqee'l, Zkharyaahuw, (David, Solomon, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, Zechariah) and the rest of the OT prophets, AND that God spake through His later prophets, Rav Sha'uwl (Paulos or Paul), Kefa (Peter), and Yochanan (John), all three of whom God sent out (Aposteloi or "Apostles"), they must ALL be true messages, for God does NOT CHANGE HIS MIND about what will happen in the future! If human beings won't do the things He has called them to do, He doesn't mind waiting a few thousand years to see the prophecy fulfilled, knowing that a "thousand years" to Him are but "a day." This is why it is so hard for us human beings to understand what God is doing from the start to the end! What seems volatile to us, is written in stone to God! "He has DECLARED the end from the beginning!" And, "He will do ALL His will!" On the other hand, God has NOT revealed EVERYTHING that will happen to any one prophet! And, there are some things that He will NOT reveal, such as the seven thunders of Revelation 10:3-4, that SHALL happen. He's told us through Yochanan that they SHALL happen, but He hasn't told us WHAT shall happen. How's that for a kicker? So, that which is true in Ezekiel, must also coincide with what is true in Revelation 4:1-22:21 or 2 Peter 3:3-13 or 1 Corithians 15:20-57. Furthermore, they are also governed by the teachings of the Messiah Yeeshuwa` (the Christ Jesus) in Matthew 13 and 23 and 24, Mark 13, Luke 17, and 21, for Yeeshuwa` Himself was a prophet of God, AND He is the SON of God, fulfilling the Davidic Covenant of 2 Samuel 7 and 1 Chronicles 17! Now, groups of people can be represented by the "bubbles" of a Venn diagram and a pie chart within those bubbles. Think of the first bubble being "the children of Israel," which contain 13 internal bubbles of each tribe (since Yoceef's bubble contains two bubbles, Efrayim and Manesheh). Off to the side of this first bubble of "the children of Israel" in the Universe is the second bubble of "all the Gentile nations." Together, they comprise all the peoples of the world. Some picture both of these bubbles having offshoots of people who leave these bubbles to form a THIRD bubble called by most "the Church," consisting of "both Jew and Gentile." Furthermore, some see the first two bubbles as joining into one now, called "Unbelievers" or "the Unsaved" or "the Lost," making "the Church" the "Believers" and "the Saved" and "the Found." I'm going to stop there and ask you, what do YOU, @Anne2 and all, think about these "bubbles?"

Shalom, @Anne2. Did you mean to quote these verses this way? First, it's always better to see a verse within its context so that one might deduce what the author is trying to say, and if there are still questions, one should go to the Greek language for the NT. Regarding Hebrews 8:13: Here is the context: Hebrews 8:1-13 (KJV) 1 Now of the things which we have spoken [this is] the sum: We HAVE such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens; 2 A minister (servant) of the sanctuary, and of the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, and not man. 3 For every high priest is ordained to offer gifts and sacrifices: wherefore [it is] of NECESSITY that this man (Yeeshuwa` or Jesus) have somewhat also to offer. 4 For if he were on earth, he should not be a priest, seeing that there are priests that offer gifts according to the law: 5 Who serve unto the example and shadow of heavenly things, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, "See," saith He, "[that] thou make all things according to the pattern shewed to thee in the mount." (Exodus 25:40). 6 But now hath he (Yeeshuwa`) obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises. 7 For if that first [covenant] had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second. 8 For finding fault with them, he saith, "Behold, the days come," saith the Lord, "when I will make a new covenant WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AND WITH THE HOUSE OF JUDAH: 9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not," saith the Lord. 10 "For this [is] the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days," saith the Lord; "I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: 11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, 'Know the Lord': for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest. 12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more." (Jeremiah 31:31-34). 13 In that he saith, "A new [covenant]," he hath made the first "old." Now that which decayeth and waxeth old [is] ready to vanish away. This verse describes the Old Covenant as being on the CUSP of retiring; however, it is NOT quite there, yet. The NEW Covenant is also between God and THE CHILDREN OF ISRAEL. Gentiles ONLY qualify IF they become a part of the children of Israel! BTW, this passage is a GREAT way to compare the Hebrew of Jeremiah 31 to the Greek of this passage. ***** Regarding Hebrews 11:3: "Worlds" is the Greek word "aioonas" which means "ages," and "framed" is this word: G2675 καταρτίζω katartízō, kat-ar-tid'-zo; from G2596 and a derivative of G739; to complete thoroughly, i.e. repair (literally or figuratively) or adjust: —fit, frame, mend, (make) perfect(-ly join together), prepare, restore. So, with those details, let's look at its context: Hebrews 11:1-7ff (KJV) 1 Now faith is the SUBSTANCE of things hoped for, the EVIDENCE of things not seen. 2 For by it the elders obtained a good report. 3 Through faith we understand that the worlds (ages) were framed (thoroughly completed) by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear. (In other words, He started with NOTHING to CREATE all!) 4 By faith Abel (Hevel) offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain (Qayin), by which he obtained witness that he was "righteous," God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh. 5 By faith Enoch (Chanowkh) was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that "he pleased God." () 6 But without faith [it is] impossible to please [him]: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and [that] he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him. This was his argument for proof that Chanowkh had faith! He trusted God, and God made him disappear rather than face death. 7 By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith. ... Noach also showed us his faith in God when he OBEYED God in building the ark. He BELIEVED God would save all aboard the ark, particularly his family. However, in doing so, it led to the condemnation of the rest of humanity as well as the animals that lived upon the land. And, the list goes on! Anyway, I don't really know WHY you picked this verse. It's not about a covenant, unless you're referring to the Noahic Covenant, for some reason. Either I've missed your point, or you are thinking of this verse in some other way than it was written.

Shalom, @Luther. It's just backwards, bro'. "Christians" are believing Jews! Why? Because we've been ADOPTED into the Family! We BECOME Jews through our Messiah Yeeshuwa` who has graffed us into the Olive Tree! Through His finished work, we are "accepted in the Beloved!"

Shalom, @truth7t7 My pastor-friend who believes in the "Jesus comes, burns it all up, and takes us home to Heaven" position, is NOT correct! God doesn't destroy everything and start over; He CLEARS the way for a new beginning, and forms the New out of the old, just as He did with the earth after the global Flood and just as He will with our bodies (us). Please, follow the logic of what the Scriptures ACTUALLY SAY, not what we are taught to BELIEVE the Scriptures say! There's a BIG difference: The current earth and sky came through the Flood, and all life upon the earth was destroyed, according to Genesis 7-9. And while all the living things upon the earth were destroyed, except those who survived on the ark, the same will be true with the global Fire: God will PURGE the earth and sky, and they, too, will come THROUGH the Fire ready for new life to begin! He doesn't destroy the earth; He destroys the things UPON the earth. The words "all things" ("τούτων πάντων" = "these all-things") in 2 Peter 3:11 do NOT refer to "everything in the universe!" They are "οἱ οὐρανοὶ ῥοιζηδὸν παρελεύσονται στοιχεῖα δὲ καυσούμενα λυθήσονται, καὶ γῆ καὶ τὰ ἐν αὐτῇ ἔργα" in 2 Peter 3:10, and the same matter becomes the New Earth and the New Sky - a Third Earth (the soil on top; the land) and a Third Sky (atmosphere of weather, the air). (See 2 Corinthians 12:1-4.) Let's look carefully at 2 Peter 3:10 in the Greek: Here's the verse in the koinee (the commoner's) Greek recorded in Scrivener's 1894 edition of the Textus Receptus (the Received Text): 10 ἥξει δὲ ἡ ἡμέρα Κυρίου ὡς κλέπτης ἐν νυκτὶ, ἐν ᾗ οἱ οὐρανοὶ ῥοιζηδὸν παρελεύσονται, στοιχεῖα δὲ καυσούμενα λυθήσονται, καὶ γῆ καὶ τὰ ἐν αὐτῇ ἔργα κατακαήσεται. This transliterates to ... 10 Heexei de hee heemera Kuriou hoos kleptees en nukti, en hee hoi ouranoi hroizeedon pareleusontai, stoicheia de kausoumena lutheesontai, kai gee kai ta en autee erga katakaeesetai. Translated word for word, we get ... 10 Will-come but the day of-Lord like a-thief en night, in the-which the skies with-a-roar shall-pass-by, orderly-arranged-parts but being-on-fire shall-melt/dissolve, and earth/soil/land and the in it works shall-be-burned-up. Rearranged in English word order, we get ... 10 But the day of-Lord will-come like a-thief in night, in the-which the skies shall-pass-by with-a-roar, but orderly-arranged-parts shall-melt/dissolve being-on-fire, and earth/soil/land and the works in it shall-be-burned-up. So, in verse 11, Peter is summarizing this into a single phrase, "τούτων οὺν πάντων λυομένων," "toutoon oun pantoon luomenoon," "these therefore all-things shall-be-melted/dissolved" or "therefore all- these -things shall-be-melted/dissolved," and the word "since" was added to show its relationship to the rest of the verse. Both of these words, lutheesontai and luomenoon, are based upon ... G3089 λύω lýō, loo'-o; a primary verb; to "loosen" (literally or figuratively): —break (up), destroy, dissolve, (un-)loose, melt, put off. Compare G4486. BlueLetterBible adds this as an "outline of biblical usage": I. to loose any person (or thing) tied or fastened I. 1. bandages of the feet, the shoes, I. 2. of a husband and wife joined together by the bond of matrimony I. 3. of a single man, whether he has already had a wife or has not yet married II. to loose one bound, i.e. to unbind, release from bonds, set free II. 1. of one bound up (swathed in bandages) II. 2. bound with chains (a prisoner), discharge from prison, let go III. to loosen, undo, dissolve, anything bound, tied, or compacted together III. 1. an assembly, i.e. to dismiss, break up III. 2. laws, as having a binding force, are likened to bonds III. 3. to annul, subvert III. 4. to do away with, to deprive of authority, whether by precept or act III. 5. to declare unlawful III. 6. to loose what is compacted or built together, to break up, demolish, destroy III. 7. to dissolve something coherent into parts, to destroy III. 8. metaph.(metaphorically), to overthrow, to do away with Therefore, its primary meaning is not "to destroy" but "to UNTIE!" We don't "destroy" an assembly (or church) when we dismiss it; we "break it up!" That's my opinion based upon the OT prophecies, as well as those in the NT, and upon the definitions! One must be careful using the word "all." Although it COULD mean "everything," it is frequently LIMITED by its context. For instance, when we say "all WITHIN the room," we've just set a limit to everything WITHIN that room. It doesn't apply to anything outside of that room! I guess the REAL key lessons I've been learning is that we don't "HAVE souls"; we "ARE souls," that is, we "ARE air-breathing creatures!" Genesis 2:7 7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. The word "soul" is the Hebrew word "nefesh" (or "nephesh") ("נֶפֶשׁ"): H5315 נֶפֶשׁ nephesh, neh'-fesh; from H5314; properly, a BREATHING creature, i.e. animal of (abstractly) vitality; used very widely in a literal, accommodated or figurative sense (bodily or mental): —any, appetite, beast, body, breath, creature, × dead(-ly), desire, × (dis-) contented, × fish, ghost, greedy, he, heart(-y), (hath, × jeopardy of) life (× in jeopardy), lust, man, me, mind, mortally, one, own, person, pleasure, (her-, him-, my-, thy-) self, them (your) -selves, slay, soul, tablet, they, thing, (× she) will, × would have it. (emphasis mine) This entry notes that it is "from H5314": H5314 נָפַשׁ nâphash, naw-fash'; a primitive root; to BREATHE; passively, to be BREATHED upon, i.e. (figuratively) refreshed (as if by a CURRENT OF AIR): —(be) refresh selves (-ed). (emphasis mine) (I transliterate this as "naafash.") God didn't "put" a soul into the man; God FORMED the man of dust FROM the ground, puffed into his nostrils the puff of living things, and the man of dust BECAME a living AIR-BREATHER, a living "soul!" This doesn't change when one moves on to the Greek: The Greek word for "soul" is "psuchee" (or "psychḗ") ("ψυχή"): G5590 ψυχή psychḗ, psoo-khay'; from G5594; BREATH, i.e. (by implication) spirit, abstractly or concretely (the animal sentient principle only; thus distinguished on the one hand from G4151, which is the rational and immortal soul; and on the other from G2222, which is mere vitality, even of plants: THESE TERMS THUS EXACTLY CORRESPOND RESPECTIVELY TO THE HEBREW H5315, H7307 and H2416):—heart (+ -ily), life, mind, soul, + us, + you. First, understand that one's theology will also influence how one will write a definition; so, we must remember that even the writers of definitions are HUMAN BEINGS and are thus susceptible to error. We ALL sin. We ALL make mistakes! "Let God be true, and every man a liar!" (Romans 3:4). Even when I check everything I've written - TWICE - I STILL find errors in what I wrote! However, I am VERY CAREFUL AND METICULOUS - to a fault! And, if I see an error, I will go back and correct it, if I can. If it's a minor change, I just change it. If it's a major revision, I will annotate it as being changed. I've even noticed that sometimes in the correcting of one error, I will introduce a different error into my writing! We do the best we can and commit the rest into the hands of the LORD. Note that this entry also says the word comes "from G5594": G5594 ψύχω psýchō, psoo'-kho; a primary verb; to BREATHE (voluntarily but gently, thus differing on the one hand from G4154, which denotes properly a forcible respiration; and on the other from the base of G109, which refers properly to an inanimate breeze), i.e. (by implication, of reduction of temperature by evaporation) to chill (figuratively): —wax cold. BUT, the part of the Greek definition that says, "from G4151, which is the rational and immortal soul," is questionable. That understanding comes from theological philosophy, not the Bible. The ONLY place I see the "soul" - the "air-breathing creature" - being "immortal" in the Scriptures is in the Resurrection! G4151 πνεῦμα pneûma, pnyoo'-mah; from G4154; a current of air, i.e. breath (blast) or a breeze; by analogy or figuratively, a spirit, i.e. (human) the rational soul, (by implication) vital principle, mental disposition, etc., or (superhuman) an angel, demon, or (divine) God, Christ's spirit, the Holy Spirit: —ghost, life, spirit(-ual, -ually), mind. Compare G5590. 1 Corinthians 15:35-57 (KJV) 35 But some [man] will say, "How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?" 36 [Thou] fool, that which thou sowest (put in the ground) is not quickened (brought back to life), except it die: 37 And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other [grain]: 38 But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body. Here, Paul likened the death and resurrection to sowing grains, whether of wheat or something else, like barley, flax, etc. 39 All flesh [is] not the same flesh: but [there is] one [kind of] flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, [and] another of birds. 40 [There are] also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial [is] one, and the [glory] of the terrestrial [is] another. 41 [There is] one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for [one] star differeth from [another] star in glory. 42 So also [is] the resurrection of the dead. So, there are different types of flesh - human, beastial, piscine, and avian. And, there are also bodies "above the sky" ("celestial"), just as there are bodies "above the ground" ("terrestrial"). Among these are the sun, the moon, and the stars. "Glory" is the Greek word "doxa" and it means ... G1391 δόξα dóxa, dox'-ah; from the base of G1380; glory (as VERY APPARENT), in a wide application (literal or figurative, objective or subjective): —dignity, glory(-ious), honour, praise, worship. It refers to that which makes something "very apparent" or "stand out" from the rest, like a bright star among the blackness of space, or the rich oppulence of a king among the drab, plainness of poor men. Stars shine in many bands of light, including visible light, but human beings and animals only give off lightwaves in the infrared region, "HEAT!" It is sown in corruption (decay); it is raised in incorruption (unable to decay again): 43 It is sown in dishonour (obscurity;defeat); it is raised in glory (dignity): it is sown in weakness (frailty); it is raised in power (strength): 44 It is sown a natural body (σῶμα ψυχικόν = sooma psuchikon = an-air-breathing body); it is raised a spiritual body (σῶμα πνευματικόν = sooma pneumatikon = an-air-blasting body, blasting like a wind). There is a natural body (σῶμα ψυχικόν), and there is a spiritual body (σῶμα πνευματικόν). 45 And so it is written, "The first man Adam was made a living soul (Greek: 'εἰς ψυχὴν ζῶσαν' = 'eis psucheen zoosan' = 'into an-air-breathing-creature living')" (Genesis 2:7); the last Adam [was made] a quickening spirit (Greek: "εἰς πνεῦμα ζῳοποιοῦν" = "eis pneuma zoo-opoioun" = "into a-wind/an-air-blasting-creature life-producing"). 46 Howbeit that [was] not first which is spiritual (Greek: "τὸ πνευματικὸν" = "to pneumatikon" = "the air-blasting-creature", but that which is natural (Greek: "τὸ ψυχικόν" = "to psuchikon" = "the air-breathing-creature"); and afterward that which is spiritual. 47 The first man [is] of the earth, earthy (Greek: "ἐκ γῆς χοϊκός" = "ek gees choikos" = "out of-[the]-earth/soil made-of-dirt"): the second man [is] the Lord from heaven (Greek: "ἐξ οὐρανοῦ" = "ex ouranou" = "out of-[the]-sky"). 48 As [is] the earthy (Greek: "ὁ χοϊκός" = "ho choikos" = "the one-made-of-dirt"), such [are] they also that are earthy (Greek: "οἱ χοϊκοί" = "hoi choikoi" = "the ones-made-of-dirt"): and as [is] the heavenly (Greek: "ὁ ἐπουράνιος" = "ho epouranios" = "the one-of-above-the-sky"), such [are] they also that are heavenly (Greek: "οἱ ἐπουράνιοι" = "hoi epouranioi" = "the ones-of-above-the-sky"). 49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy (Greek: "τὴν εἰκόνα τοῦ χοϊκοῦ" = "teen eikona tou choikou" = "the likeness of-the one-made-of-dirt"), we shall also bear the image of the heavenly (Greek: "τὴν εἰκόνα τοῦ ἐπουρανίου" = "teen eikona tou epouraniou" = "the likeness of-the one-of-above-the-sky"). 50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. 51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, (i.e., some will still be awake) but we shall all be changed, 52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we (both still living and newly living) shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible (Greek: "τὸ φθαρτὸν τοῦτο" = "to ftharton touto" = "the decomposition this-one") must put on incorruption (Greek: "ἀφθαρσίαν" = "aftharsian" = "incorruption/inability to decay"), and this mortal (Greek: "τὸ θνητὸν τοῦτο" = "to thneeton touto" = "the mortality this-one") [must] put on immortality (Greek: "ἀθανασίαν" = "athanasian" = "immortality/inability to die"). 54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, "Death is swallowed up in victory." (Isaiah 25:8) 55 "O death, where [is] thy sting (stinger)? O grave, where [is] thy victory?" (Hosea 13:14) 56 The sting (stinger) of death [is] sin; and the strength of sin [is] the law. 57 But thanks [be] to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ. This also taught me that we don't "go to Heaven" when we die! Instead, we go to our graves and await the RESURRECTION! And, after the Resurrection, that which is CALLED "heaven," the New Jerusalem, "COMES to us!" Revelation 21:1-4 (KJV) 1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. 2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven (Greek: "καταβαίνουσαν ἀπὸ τοῦ θεοῦ ἐκ τοῦ οὐρανοῦ" = "katabainousan apo tou Theou ek tou ouranou" = "descending away-from the God out of-the sky"), prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, "Behold, the tabernacle of God [is] with men (Greek: "ἡ σκηνὴ τοῦ θεοῦ μετὰ τῶν ἀνθρώπων" = "hee skeenee tou Theou meta toon anthroopoon" = "the tent of-the God with the men"), and he will dwell with them (Greek: "σκηνώσει μετ᾽αὐτῶν" = "skeenoosei met' autoon" = "He-will-tent with them"), and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them (Greek: "αὐτὸς ὁ θεὸς ἔσται μετ᾽ αὐτῶν" = "autos ho Theos estai met' autoon" = "He the God shall-be with them"), [and be] their God. 4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away." That's what we are to anticpate, not this "going to Heaven" nonsense.

Shalom, @truth7t7 Since a "scholar" is a "student," yep. I've been a student of Greek and Hebrew since the 70's. But, I'm still learning. On the other hand, I feel that I owe you an apology: I try to remember not to use the second person pronouns, like "you" and "your" when I'm responding to others, and I failed to do that in my response above. I did not mean that to sound like an attack on you or anyone. When I said, "If you're hanging all your beliefs on these two passages of Scripture, then I hope that you're NOT in a position where you are teaching others this stuff," I sounded harsh and judgmental against you. For that, I'm truly sorry. I should have focused on the TEACHING, not the TEACHER. I have a pastor-friend who believes in the "Jesus comes, burns it all up, and takes us home to Heaven" position. However, while I believe that stance is fundamentally wrong, I still love my friend and do not question his "salvation" (justification by God) nor his sincerity. I don't want you believing that I question your justification by God nor your sincerity in what you believe, either. I just see things much more positively than that. God doesn't destroy everything and start over; He CLEARS the way for a new beginning, and forms the New out of the old, just as He will with our bodies (us). We are RESURRECTED to new life, the old breathing bodies made into air-BLASTING bodies, and so will be His Creation. The current earth and sky came through the Flood, but all the living things upon the earth were destroyed, except those who survived on the ark. The same will be true with the Fire. He will PURGE the earth and sky, and they, too, will come through the Fire ready for new life. The same matter becomes the New Earth and the New Sky - a Third Earth and a Third Sky (See 2 Corinthians 12:1-4.) That's my opinion based upon the OT prophecies, as well as the NT.

Shabbat shalom, @truth7t7. First, I'll just say this: If you're hanging all your beliefs on these two passages of Scripture, then I hope that you're NOT in a position where you are teaching others this stuff. God can correct one person's theology simply enough; however, when the teaching has been pushed on others, THEN it becomes a matter where one is now RESPONSIBLE to God for what he or she is teaching! Both of these passages are NOT saying what you're concluding that they are saying. Let's start with the basics - definitions: The word "heaven" is NOT equivalent to the "universe"; NOR is it talking about some place other called "God's Abode," with a capital "H," "Heaven." Forget the English for a while; it's been generalized too much. The Greek word for "heaven" is primarily "οὐρανός." We transliterate this word into a more English-looking representation, "ouranos." Now, this is singular in number, but we will also find the plural, especially when Jews have done the writing of the Scriptures we're reading, such as 2 Peter 3: "οὐρανοὶ." The only difference is changing the "-ός" singular, masculine ending into the plural, masculine ending, "-οὶ." Notice that the accent is still put upon this syllable. So, it is translated plural: "heavens." The definition of this Greek word (according to Strong's Exhaustive Concordance's Greek dictionary) is ... G3772 οὐρανός ouranós, oo-ran-os'; perhaps from the same as G3735 (through the idea of elevation); the sky; by extension, heaven (as the abode of God); by implication, happiness, power, eternity; specially, the Gospel (Christianity): —air, heaven(-ly), sky. So, this entry has many parts: The first part, "G3772," means that it is the 3772nd entry in the Greek dictionary. The second part, "οὐρανός," is the Greek word itself. The third part, "ouranós," is the Greek word transliterated by their scheme of transliteration, which may be different in different dictionaries. The fourth part, "oo-ran-os'," is the pronunciation of this word, showing the accent on the last syllable. The fifth part, is the explanation of the word's origin (which may or may not be accurate). The sixth part, "the sky; by extension, heaven (as the abode of God); by implication, happiness, power, eternity; specially, the Gospel (Christianity)," is the actual definition of the word. The primary definition is first. This definition says that the meaning of the word might be EXTENDED to mean "heaven (as the abode of God)," although that is not its primary meaning. However, this "extension" can be influenced by the theology of the one making the "extension!" (Even dictionaries are works of human beings, and are therefore fallible.) This definition is also saying that the word may "imply" "happiness, power, or eternity," and again, this is at the whim of the interpreter. God may have meant for the word to be there literally! And, there may be a plae or two that "specially" used the word for "the Gospel (Christianity)," again in the understanding of the interpreter. The final part of the entry, occurring after the colon-dash (:—), were the English words in the Authorized (King James) Version into which this Greek word were translated. This is written, "air, heaven(-ly), sky" and means that the words "air," "heaven," "heavenly," or "sky" may have been used to translate this ONE Greek word. THIS is where most of the confusion lies! Why so many words? "Sky" includes anything we notice when we look "up." "Air" is talking about the composite of gases that envelop our planet. "Heaven" is vague and nebulous in meaning. We don't always KNOW what the author meant by that description; one must check it out as best as one can by its context. The bottom line in all this is that "ouranos" means "the sky." That's its first meaning and seldom (if ever) does it need to mean anything else. Look at how the Pharisees used it and then how Yeeshuwa` used it right afterwards: Matthew 16:1-4 (KJV) 1 The Pharisees also with the Sadducees came, and tempting desired him that he would shew them a sign from heaven (Greek: ἐκ τοῦ οὐρανοῦ = ek tou ouranou = "out of-the sky"). 2 He answered and said unto them, "When it is evening, ye say, '[It will be] fair weather': for the sky (Greek: ὁ οὐρανός = ho ouranos = "the sky") is red. 3 And in the morning, '[It will be] foul weather to day': for the sky (Greek: ὁ οὐρανός = ho ouranos = "the sky") is red and lowring. O [ye] hypocrites, ye can discern the face of the sky (Greek: τοῦ οὐρανοῦ = tou ouranou = "of-the sky"); but can ye not [discern] the signs of the times? 4 A wicked and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given unto it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas." And he left them, and departed. Something I think is worthy of comment: Why were the SAME WORDS in Greek, "tou ouranou," translated as "from heaven" in verse 1 but "of the sky" in verse 3? Just something to think about. They asked Him for a sign "from heaven," and He gave them WEATHER WISDOM! "A red sky at night is a sailor's delight; a red sky at morning, and sailors take warning!" This is something the translator couldn't hide! And, it's how Yeeshuwa` used the word translated as "ouranos," which was probably the Aramaic (שְׁמַיִן = shmayin) or Hebrew equivalent (שָׁמַיִם = shaamayim)! One more simpler definition, and this post is done: The "earth" in 2 Peter 3:10 is the Greek word "γῆ" = gee = earth; land: G1093 γῆ gē, ghay; contracted from a primary word; soil; by extension a region, or the solid part or the whole of the terrene globe (including the occupants in each application): —country, earth(-ly), ground, land, world. (I use "ee" for the Greek letter eta, as opposed to the single "e" for an epsilon. That way, I don't have to hunt for a way to represent it with the long-e symbol they have in this Strong's dictionary definition.) Thus, it was translated as "country," "earth," "earthly," "ground," "land," or "world," in the King James Version. Its primary meaning is "soil" or "DIRT!" (Reminds me of "Q" in Star Trek Next Generation who made fun of humans for calling their home, "planet DIRT!") "Soil" and even ROCKS are melted all the time in places, like Hawaii, which have active lava flows! Think about Pompeii! Peter's word was also the Hebrew (אֶרֶץ = 'erets) or Aramaic (אֲרַע = 'ara`) versions.

Shabbat shalom, @truth7t7. Not so fast, there! What does one do with THESE verses? Ecclesiastes 1:4 (KJV) 4 One generation passeth away, and another generation cometh: but the earth abideth for ever. Psalm 89:3-4 (KJV) 3 "I have made a covenant with my chosen, I have sworn unto David my servant, 4 Thy seed will I establish for ever, and build up thy throne to all generations." Selah. Psalm 89:20-37 (KJV) 20 "I have found David my servant; with my holy oil have I anointed him: 21 With whom my hand shall be established: mine arm also shall strengthen him. 22 The enemy shall not exact upon him; nor the son of wickedness afflict him. 23 And I will beat down his foes before his face, and plague them that hate him. 24 But my faithfulness and my mercy [shall be] with him: and in my name shall his horn be exalted. 25 I will set his hand also in the sea, and his right hand in the rivers. 26 He shall cry unto me, 'Thou [art] my father, my God, and the rock of my salvation.' 27 Also I will make him [my] firstborn, higher than the kings of the earth. 28 My mercy will I keep for him for evermore, and my covenant shall stand fast with him. 29 His seed also will I make [to endure] for ever, and his throne as the days of heaven. 30 If his children forsake my law, and walk not in my judgments; 31 If they break my statutes, and keep not my commandments; 32 Then will I visit their transgression with the rod, and their iniquity with stripes. 33 Nevertheless my lovingkindness will I not utterly take from him, nor suffer my faithfulness to fail. 34 MY COVENANT WILL I NOT BREAK, NOR ALTER THE THING THAT IS GONE OUT OF MY LIPS. 35 Once have I sworn by my holiness that I will not lie unto David. 36 HIS SEED SHALL ENDURE FOR EVER, and HIS THRONE AS THE SUN BEFORE ME. 37 IT SHALL BE ESTABLISHED FOR EVER AS THE MOON, and [as] A FAITHFUL WITNESS IN HEAVEN. Selah. This is God's Word, too, y'know. How can one rectify this with your interpretation of 2Peter 3? For me, it was easy: 2 Peter 3 is about the SURFACE of the earth, and even more specifically, the LAND, rather than the planet! Also, the Greek words frequently translated as "the heavens shall pass away" in 2 Peter 3:10 is "παρελεύσονται," which is the future tense, deponent middle voice, indicative mood - 3rd person, plural form of "παρέρχομαι": G3928 παρέρχομαι parérchomai, par-er'-khom-ahee; from G3844 and G2064; to come near or aside, i.e. to approach (arrive), go by (or away), (FIGURATIVELY) perish or neglect, (causative) avert: —come (forth), go, pass (away, by, over), past, transgress. So, the word could mean "shall approach; shall arrive; shall come near; shall come aside; shall go by; or shall go away." However, this is talking about "the heavens," which is the Greek plural words, οἱ οὐρανοὶ or "hoi ouranoi," which mean "the skies." Peter was a Jew and would think in Hebrew or Aramaic, a close cousin to Hebrew, and the word would be "הַשָּׁמַיִם" or "hashshaamayim" or "hashshaamayin" in Aramaic, both of which are DUAL words, speaking of the "daytime sky" and the "nighttime sky." It's talking about the ATMOSPHERE of this planet. So, this says "the skies shall pass by with a loud noise!" In fact, if one is familiar with the old sci-fi movie, "Alien," the catch-phrase for the movie was, "In space, no one can hear you scream!" One NEEDS an atmosphere to hear sound! Vibrations in a object cannot be transferred to a listener's ears without the molecules of air between the vibrating object and the ear. So, this verse isn't talking about the DESTRUCTION of the atmosphere, but rather the RUSHING BY of the atmosphere! Hot winds would be caused by whatever was burning up the works of men! I'm not saying that there won't be destruction, because it will be enough to dissolve or melt all the works of human beings. BUT, it won't be the entire destruction of the planet! And, it CERTAINLY won't be the destruction of the Universe, as some teach! The conclusion for me is that "God doesn't LOSE His Creation!" Not to haSatan or to ANYONE! He WINS! He remakes the earth after the Fire, just as He remade the earth after the Flood! That's why a simple comparison between Genesis 1-2 and Revelation 21-22 can be helpful; God is REBUILDING His original Creation, and He doesn't need to go elsewhere to get it done! I sincerely hope this will help you. And, don't think this is aimed right at you. I have pastor friends that are convinced that God is going to destroy the planet and take us all off to Heaven. But, IMO, that's a PESSIMISTIC VIEW of what God can do! Why should God destroy the whole uinverse on account of a relatively small amount of insignificant creatures on a mere speck of a planet in the vastness of space?

Shabbat shalom, again, @Locust. Think about it: Yeeshuwa` ("Jesus") the Messiah of God ("the Christ") gave us the parable in Luke 19 just as He was about to enter Jerusalem's territory for the last time before His death. He KNEW THAT! It was the "scribes" (transcribers and copyists of the Law, Prophets, and other Writings) and the P'rushiym ("Separatists," "Pharisees") who were the ones MISLEADING the Jews of Jerusalem against Him. They would be "praying to God" NOT to have Him come and be their King! How is the King Yeeshuwa` when He comes, going to deal with THEM, so long in the future as it has been since He ascended to His Father? How is He going to deal with the actual SOURCE of the problem adequately? They must BE THERE for Him to deal with the SOURCE! After the Resurrection of the children of Israel, ALL of those who were misled will be there, too. (This will be a whole chapter, for the whole thing is important to understand.) Ezekiel 37:1-28 (KJV) 1 The hand of the LORD was upon me, and carried me out in the spirit of the LORD, and set me down in the midst of the valley which [was] full of bones, 2 And caused me to pass by them round about: and, behold, [there were] very many in the open valley; and, lo, [they were] very dry. 3 And he said unto me, "Son of man, can these bones live?" And I answered, "O Lord GOD, thou knowest." 4 Again he said unto me, "Prophesy upon these bones, and say unto them, "'O ye dry bones, hear the word of the LORD. 5 Thus saith the Lord GOD unto these bones; "'"Behold, I will cause breath to enter into you, and ye shall live: 6 And I will lay sinews upon you, and will bring up flesh upon you, and cover you with skin, and put breath in you, and ye shall live; and ye shall know that I [am] the LORD."'" 7 So I prophesied as I was commanded: and as I prophesied, there was a noise, and behold a shaking, and the bones came together, bone to his bone. 8 And when I beheld, lo, the sinews and the flesh came up upon them, and the skin covered them above: but [there was] no breath in them. 9 Then said he unto me, "Prophesy unto the wind, prophesy, son of man, and say to the wind, "'Thus saith the Lord GOD; "'"Come from the four winds, O breath, and breathe upon these slain, that they may live."'" 10 So I prophesied as he commanded me, and the breath came into them, and they lived, and stood up upon their feet, an exceeding great army (Hebrew: חַיִל = chayil = "company; population"). 11 Then he said unto me, "Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel: behold, they say, 'Our bones are dried, and our hope is lost: we are cut off for our parts.' 12 Therefore prophesy and say unto them, "'Thus saith the Lord GOD; "'"Behold, O my people, I will open your graves, and cause you to come up out of your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel. 13 And ye shall know that I [am] the LORD, when I have opened your graves, O my people, and brought you up out of your graves, 14 And shall put my spirit in you, and ye shall live, and I shall place you in your own land: then shall ye know that I the LORD have spoken [it], and performed [it]," saith the LORD.'" 15 The word of the LORD came again unto me, saying, 16 "Moreover, thou son of man, take thee one stick, and write upon it, 'For Judah, and for the children of Israel his companions': then take another stick, and write upon it, 'For Joseph, the stick of Ephraim, and [for] all the house of Israel his companions': 17 And join them one to another into one stick; and they shall become one in thine hand. 18 "And when the children of thy people shall speak unto thee, saying, "'Wilt thou not shew us what thou [meanest] by these?' 19 "Say unto them, "'Thus saith the Lord GOD; "'"Behold, I will take the stick of Joseph, which [is] in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel his fellows, and will put them with him, [even] with the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, and they shall be one in mine hand."' 20 "And the sticks whereon thou writest shall be in thine hand before their eyes. 21 "And say unto them, "'Thus saith the Lord GOD; "'"Behold, I will take the children of Israel from among the heathen, whither they be gone, and will gather them on every side, and bring them into their own land: 22 And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all: 23 Neither shall they defile themselves any more with their idols, nor with their detestable things, nor with any of their transgressions: but I will save them out of all their dwellingplaces, wherein they have sinned, and will cleanse them: so shall they be my people, and I will be their God. 24 "'"And David my servant [shall be] king over them; and they all (David included) shall have One Shepherd: they shall also walk in my judgments, and observe my statutes, and do them. 25 And they shall dwell in the land that I have given unto Jacob my servant, wherein your fathers have dwelt; and they shall dwell therein, [even] they, and their children, and their children's children for ever: and my servant David [shall be] their prince for ever. 26 Moreover I will make a covenant of peace with them; it shall be an everlasting covenant with them: and I will place them, and multiply them, and will set my sanctuary in the midst of them for evermore. 27 My tabernacle also shall be with them: yea, I will be their God, and they shall be my people. 28 And the heathen shall know that I the LORD do sanctify Israel, when my sanctuary shall be in the midst of them for evermore."'" One may chafe at these words, if one doesn't want to see them in the Scriptures, but they are there! And, GOD said them! They SHALL be fulfilled LITERALLY and without fail! Many call this a "vision," but NOWHERE in the text does it call it that! This will happen, just as written!

Shabbat shalom, @Locust. Not when the Messiah Himself said it.

Shalom, @Locust. While that may have been true, Yeeshuwa`s words to the Jews are instructive: Matthew 23:39 (KJV) 39 "For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, 'Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.'" Now, think about the ramifications of this: He is saying that they wouldn't see Him until they could say this statement. It comes from Psalm 118:26: Psalm 118:26 (KJV) 26 Blessed be he that cometh in the name of the LORD: we have blessed you out of the house of the LORD (the Temple.) The Hebrew is this: בָּרוּךְ הַבָּא בְּשֵׁם יְהוָה בֵּרַכְנוּכֶם מִבֵּית יְהוָה׃ 26 The words transliterate to ... 26 Baruwkh haba' b-sheem YHWH; barkhnuwkhem mibeeyt YHWH: They translate to English word-for-word like this: 26 Welcome the-Comer in-name (on-authority) of-YHWH; we-have-welcomed [you] from-the-house of-YHWH. As I've said before, these words, Baruwkh haba', in the plural, Baruwkhiym haba'iym, are found at all the seaports and airports in Israel today! They mean, "Welcome, comers (visitors)!" Therefore, they must WELCOME HIM! And, welcome Him "in the authority of YHWH!" They must welcome Him as God's Messiah! How are they going to know to do that UNLESS WE TELL THEM?! If Yeeshuwa` ("Jesus") isn't returning until they can say those words to Him, then it is WE who are delaying His Coming, if we're not telling them about their Messiah! In the next chapter, the Olivet Discourse, Yeeshuwa` said, Matthew 24:14 (KJV) 14 "And this gospel of the kingdom (good news about the Kingdom) shall be preached (heralded) in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and THEN shall the end come." I submit to you that we have BARELY STARTED to "herald this good news about His coming Kingdom!" Just some things we must all consider.

Shalom, @Locust and @Anne2. Yes, @Locust, "blinded," not permanently rejected. @Anne2 is correct. The common people of the Jews have been misled by their leaders, who themselves have been misled by others, ultimately by the scribes and Pharisees in Yeeshuwa`s time. I actually believe that Yeeshuwa` is going to RESURRECT them, fulfilling His parable against them! Luke 19:11-27 (KJV) 11 And as they heard these things, he added and spake a parable, because he was nigh to Jerusalem, and because they thought that the kingdom of God should immediately appear. 12 He said therefore, "A certain nobleman (referring to Himself) went into a far country to receive for himself a kingdom, and to return. 13 And he called his ten servants, and delivered them ten pounds, and said unto them, "'Occupy (Trade with this) till I come.' 14 "But his citizens hated him, and sent a message after him, saying, "'We will not have THIS [man] to reign over us!' 15 "And it came to pass, that when he was returned, having received the kingdom, then he commanded these servants to be called unto him, to whom he had given the money, that he might know how much every man had gained by trading. 16 Then came the first, saying, "'Lord, thy pound hath gained ten pounds.' 17 "And he said unto him, "'Well, thou good servant: because thou hast been faithful in a very little, have thou authority over ten cities.' 18 "And the second came, saying, "'Lord, thy pound hath gained five pounds.' 19 "And he said likewise to him, "'Be thou also over five cities.' 20 "And another came, saying, "'Lord, behold, [here is] thy pound, which I have kept laid up in a napkin: 21 For I feared thee, because thou art an austere man: thou takest up that thou layedst not down, and reapest that thou didst not sow.' 22 "And he saith unto him, "'Out of thine own mouth will I judge thee, [thou] wicked servant! Thou KNEWEST that I was an austere man, taking up that I laid not down, and reaping that I did not sow: 23 Wherefore then gavest not thou my money into the bank, that at my coming I might have required mine own with usury (interest)?!' 24 "And he said unto them that stood by, "'Take from him the pound, and give [it] to him that hath ten pounds.' 25 "(And they said unto him, "'Lord, he HATH ten pounds [already]!') 26 "'For I say unto you, That unto every one which hath shall be given; and from him that hath not, even that he hath shall be taken away from him. 27 But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and SLAY [them] before me!' " He's going to RAISE them to life just so He can have them SLAIN before Him properly! Christians today don't have accurate ideas about the "Judgment Seat of Christ" nor do they understand the "Marriage Supper of the Lamb!" The JOB of an Israeli King is to be the nation's "SUPREME COURT JUSTICE!" His judgment won't be during the "seven years of tribulation" some think will happen. His judgment will be THROUGHOUT the Millennium and BEYOND! If anyone within His Kingdom has a matter that needs to be decided, He will be the One who is "the One greater than Shlomoh ("Solomon"), both greater and WISER than he was! Furthermore, His Judgment will extend to all those nations who are annexed into His Kingdom, and they will rely upon His wisdom, as well! Notice how the servants to the King will be given roles over "ten cities" and over "five cities," when they have shown their wisdom to be in His hierarchy of kings! He won't be called the "King of kings" for nothing! He will become a WORLDWIDE EMPEROR, and we shall reign with Him! Also, we are told that He will have HELP in deciding matters, because David will be raised to life, and I imagine that will also include Shlomoh, as well! There will be roles to fill, like ambassadors to other countries, which some of us may fill! As kings over various regions of the world, we will judge the easier matters, and escalate the greater matters more difficult to decide to the King of kings in Israel. It will be much as Moses was instructed to do by his father-in-law, Yitrow ("Jethro"), an anointed priest for Midian: Exodus 18:13-26 (KJV) 13 And it came to pass on the morrow, that Moses sat to judge the people: and the people stood by Moses from the morning unto the evening. 14 And when Moses' father in law saw all that he did to the people, he said, "What [is] this thing that thou doest to the people? why sittest thou thyself alone, and all the people stand by thee from morning unto even?" 15 And Moses said unto his father in law, "Because the people come unto me to enquire of God: 16 When they have a matter, they come unto me; and I judge between one and another, and I do make [them] know the statutes of God, and his laws." 17 And Moses' father in law said unto him, "The thing that thou doest [is] not good. 18 Thou wilt surely wear away, both thou, and this people that [is] with thee: for this thing [is] too heavy for thee; thou art not able to perform it thyself alone. 19 Hearken now unto my voice, I will give thee counsel, and God shall be with thee: "Be thou for the people to God-ward, that thou mayest bring the causes unto God: 20 And thou shalt teach them ordinances and laws, and shalt shew them the way wherein they must walk, and the work that they must do. 21 Moreover thou shalt provide out of all the people able men, such as fear God, men of truth, hating covetousness; and place [such] over them, [to be] rulers of thousands, [and] rulers of hundreds, rulers of fifties, and rulers of tens: 22 And let them judge the people at all seasons: and it shall be, [that] every great matter they shall bring unto thee, but every small matter they shall judge: so shall it be easier for thyself, and they shall bear [the burden] with thee. 23 If thou shalt do this thing, and God command thee [so], then thou shalt be able to endure, and all this people shall also go to their place in peace." 24 So Moses hearkened to the voice of his father in law, and did all that he had said. 25 And Moses chose able men out of all Israel, and made them heads over the people, rulers of thousands, rulers of hundreds, rulers of fifties, and rulers of tens. 26 And they judged the people at all seasons: the hard causes they brought unto Moses, but every small matter they judged themselves. He set up a HIERARCHY of judges! And, since the job of kings is to be judges for their several jurisdictions, there will be a hierarchy of kings under the King of kings!! Read Ezekiel 34 and 37; David is explicitly mentioned as reigning over the children of Israel, who are all under ONE SHEPHERD! I believe the King of kings will be that "Shepherd!" Resurrections will also occur throughout the Millennium (and Beyond) and not just by Yeeshuwa` either! He had sent His disciples out throughout the Land of Israel during His First Offer of the Kingdom, and they were instructed, Matthew 10:5-8 (KJV) 5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, "Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into [any] city of the Samaritans enter ye not: 6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. 7 And as ye go, preach, saying, "'The kingdom of heaven is at hand (is within your grasp).' 8 Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, RAISE THE DEAD, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give." If He did this in His First Advent, He will surely do it again in His Second Advent!

Shalom, @truth7t7. People have been going on about the "antichrist" for so long that they think Daniel 9:27 is about this person instead of the true Messiah, but there are GRAMMATICAL reasons why the "he" in Daniel 9:27 must be referring back to the "Messiah" in 9:26, not to some "prince that shall come," as many claim. Therefore, the "He" mentioned 3 times is really the Messiah, as we can see this verse fulfilled in the person of Yeeshuwa` ("Jesus") the Messiah ("Christ") of God. Here's the verse: Daniel 9:27 (KJV) 27 And (a) HE shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and (b) in the midst of the week HE shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and (c) for the overspreading of abominations HE shall make it DESOLATE, even until the consummation, and (d) that determined (the pressure; tribulation) shall be poured upon the desolate (the children of Israel). Part (a): The "covenant" mentioned here is the DAVIDIC Covenant of 2 Samuel 7 and 1 Chronicles 17. David first reigned for 7 years over the tribe of Yhudah ("Judah"), reigning from HeVrown ("Hebron"). Then, he moved to Jerusalem and reigned there for 33 more years. Yeeshuwa` ("Jesus"), too, was announced as the "King of the Jews," both when the Magi came from the east, and upon His cross as an epitaph or "charge" against Him. Furthermore, the Almighty announced Him as "My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased," which reflects the DAVIDIC Covenant, while anointing Him with the Ruwach haQodesh (the Holy Spirit): 2 Samuel 7:14-16 (KJV) 14 "I will be his father, and he shall be my son. If he commit (be twisted into) iniquity, I will chasten him with the rod of men, and with the stripes of the children of men: ... [This last part happened when He went to the cross: "He (God the Father) made Him (the Messiah) to be sin for us, who (the Messiah) knew no sin, that we might be made the righteousness of God in Him." (2 Corinthians 5:21).] 15 "... But my mercy shall not depart away from him, as I took [it] from Saul, whom I put away before thee. 16 And thine house and thy kingdom shall be established for ever before thee: thy throne shall be established for ever." This last part was quoted by Gabriel to Mary in ... Luke 1:30-33 (KJV) 30 And the angel said unto her, "Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God. 31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS. 32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the LORD God shall give unto him the throne of his father David: 33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end." This was the Covenant that Yeeshuwa` came to fulfill! However, they rejected Him after half of the Week was over: Part (b): He caused the sacrifice and the gift ("oblation") to cease, because HE became the FINAL Sacrifice for sin! Hebrews 9:23-28; 10:1-22 (KJV) 23 [It was] therefore necessary that the patterns of things in the heavens (Greek: ἐν τοῖς οὐρανοῖς = "en tois ouranois" = "in the skies") should be purified with these; but the heavenly things (Greek: τὰ ἐπουράνια = "ta epourania" = "the-[things] above-the-sky") themselves with better sacrifices than these. 24 For Christ (the Messiah) is not entered into the holy places made with hands, [which are] the figures of the true; but into heaven itself (Greek: εἰς αὐτὸν τὸν οὐρανόν = "eis auton ton ouranon" = "into itself the sky"), now to appear in the presence of God for us: 25 Nor yet that he should offer himself often, as the high priest entereth into the holy place every year with blood of others; 26 For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself. 27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment: 28 So Christ (the Messiah) was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation. 1 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, [and] not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect. 2 For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins. 3 But in those [sacrifices there is] a remembrance again [made] of sins every year. 4 For [it is] not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins. 5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, "Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me: 6 In burnt offerings and [sacrifices] for sin thou hast had no pleasure. 7 Then said I, 'Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.' " (Psalm 40:6-8). 8 Above when he said, "Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and [offering] for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure [therein]; which are offered by the law"; (Jeremiah 31:33). 9 Then said he, "Lo, I come to do thy will, O God." (Jeremiah 31:34) He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second. 10 By the which will WE ARE SANCTIFIED THROUGH THE OFFERING OF THE BODY OF JESUS CHRIST (THE BODY OF YEESHUWA` THE MESSIAH) ONCE [FOR ALL]. 11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins: 12 But THIS MAN, AFTER HE HAD OFFERED ONE SACRIFICE FOR SINS FOR EVER, SAT DOWN ON THE RIGHT HAND OF GOD; 13 FROM HENCEFORTH EXPECTING TILL HIS ENEMIES BE MADE HIS FOOTSTOOL. 14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified. 15 [Whereof] the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before, 16 "'This [is] the covenant that I will make with them after those days,' saith the Lord, 'I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them; 17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.'" 18 Now where remission of these [is, there is] no more offering for sin. 19 Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus, 20 By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, THROUGH THE VEIL, THAT IS TO SAY, HIS FLESH; 21 And [having] an high priest over the house of God; 22 Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water. Note: In verse 12 of chapter 10, the words "for ever" are describing the results of the OFFER; they are NOT talking about the Messiah "sitting down!" Instead, there is a "TILL" ("UNTIL") associated with the "sitting down," and is a part of "TILL HIS ENEMIES BE MADE HIS FOOTSTOOL." Now, there are two stages of this "making His enemies His footstool": First, His Father gives Him the Kingdom and the authority to rule over that Kingdom, sending Him back to earth, and second, He must subdue His enemies, putting them under His feet: 1 Corinthians 15:20-28 (KJV) 20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, [and] become the firstfruits of them that slept. 21 For since by man [came] death, by man [came] also the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23 But every man in his own order: (0) Christ the firstfruits; (1) afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. 24 (2) Then [cometh] the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. 25 For HE MUST REIGN, TILL HE HATH PUT ALL ENEMIES UNDER HIS FEET. 26 The last enemy [that] shall be destroyed [is] death. 27 For "he (God) hath put all things under his (the Messiah's) feet." (Psalm 8:6) [But when he saith "all things are put under [him," it is] manifest (revealed) that "he" (God) is excepted (He is the exception to the 'all things'), which (who) did "put all things under him (the Messiah)."] 28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all. Apparently, this will take a thousand years to accomplish, for those are the first 1,000 years of His eternal Kingdom that lead up to the Great White Throne Judgment, where we read Revelation 20:14 (KJV) 14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And, then we read in the next chapter, Revelation 21:3-4 (KJV) 3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven (Greek: ἐκ τοῦ θρόνου = "ek tou thronou" = "out/from the throne," in many versions, although the Received Text says ἐκ τοῦ οὐρανοῦ = "ek tou ouranou" = "out/from the sky") saying, "Behold, the tabernacle of God [is] with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, [and be] their God. 4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and THERE SHALL BE NO MORE DEATH, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away." Part (c): The fulfillment of this part of Daniel 9:27 is seen in Matthew 23, Mark 12, and Luke 20, when He condemns the "scribes and Pharisees" for their abominations. He concludes: Matthew 23:37-39 (KJV) 37 "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, [thou] that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under [her] wings, and ye would not! 38 "Behold, your house is left unto you DESOLATE. 39 For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, 'Blessed [is] he that cometh in the name of the Lord' (Psalm 118:26)!" And, this wasn't the first time He said this, for it is also recorded in Luke 13: Luke 13:34-35 (KJV) 34 "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, which killest the prophets, and stonest them that are sent unto thee; how often would I have gathered thy children together, as a hen [doth gather] her brood under [her] wings, and ye would not! 35 "Behold, your house is left unto you DESOLATE: and verily I say unto you, Ye shall not see me, until [the time] come when ye shall say, 'Blessed [is] he that cometh in the name of the Lord' (Psalm 118:26)!" It was for the abominations of the scribes and Pharisees, spreading out like the feathers of a bird's extended wing, that they were left "DESOLATE," and they won't see Him again until its "consummation" or "accomplishment." It's been going on for almost 2,000 years now! Part (d): This is the "desolation" or "tribulation" itself. It SHALL have an ending, but it won't end until the CHILDREN OF ISRAEL, especially, the Jews, cry out to Him for God's power through the Messiah to subdue His enemies which will be surrounding Jerusalem at some point in the future, fulfilling the evils of Zechariah 12 as prophesied. And, they shall cry out to Him from a house of God, a Temple rebuilt, whether discouraged by God or not. I know this has been quite long, but I'm trying to tie all the loose ends together for you; so, you can see how everything works together into a unified whole.

Shalom, @Alive. Sure it is; however, it is also a rallying place where prayers are made collectively. What is the PURPOSE of the Temple? (Hang on; this will be a little long...) Shlomoh haMelekh (King Solomon), an Anointed One (a Messiah), said, 1 Kings 8:22-53 22 And Solomon stood before the altar of the LORD in the presence of all the congregation of Israel, and spread forth his hands toward heaven: 23 And he said, "LORD God of Israel, [there is] no God like thee, in heaven above, or on earth beneath, who keepest covenant and mercy with thy servants that walk before thee with all their heart: 24 Who hast kept with thy servant David my father that thou promisedst him: thou spakest also with thy mouth, and hast fulfilled [it] with thine hand, as [it is] this day. 25 Therefore now, LORD God of Israel, keep with thy servant David my father that thou promisedst him, saying, There shall not fail thee a man in my sight to sit on the throne of Israel; so that thy children take heed to their way, that they walk before me as thou hast walked before me. 26 And now, O God of Israel, let thy word, I pray thee, be verified, which thou spakest unto thy servant David my father. 27 "But will God indeed dwell on the earth? behold, the heaven and heaven of heavens cannot contain thee; how much less this house that I have builded? 28 Yet have thou respect unto the prayer of thy servant, and to his supplication, O LORD my God, to hearken unto the cry and to the prayer, which thy servant prayeth before thee to day: 29 That thine eyes may be open toward this house night and day, [even] toward the place of which thou hast said, "My name shall be there": that thou mayest hearken unto the prayer which thy servant shall make toward this place. 30 And hearken thou to the supplication of thy servant, and of thy people Israel, when they shall pray toward this place: and hear thou in heaven thy dwelling place: and when thou hearest, forgive. 31 "If any man trespass against his neighbour, and an oath be laid upon him to cause him to swear, and the oath come before thine altar in this house: 32 Then hear thou in heaven, and do, and judge thy servants, condemning the wicked, to bring his way upon his head; and justifying the righteous, to give him according to his righteousness. 33 "When thy people Israel be smitten down before the enemy, because they have sinned against thee, and shall turn again to thee, and confess thy name, and pray, and make supplication unto thee in this house: 34 Then hear thou in heaven, and forgive the sin of thy people Israel, and bring them again unto the land which thou gavest unto their fathers. 35 "When heaven is shut up, and there is no rain, because they have sinned against thee; if they pray toward this place, and confess thy name, and turn from their sin, when thou afflictest them: 36 Then hear thou in heaven, and forgive the sin of thy servants, and of thy people Israel, that thou teach them the good way wherein they should walk, and give rain upon thy land, which thou hast given to thy people for an inheritance. 37 "If there be in the land famine, if there be pestilence, blasting, mildew, locust, [or] if there be caterpiller; if their enemy besiege them in the land of their cities; whatsoever plague, whatsoever sickness [there be]; 38 What prayer and supplication soever be [made] by any man, [or] by all thy people Israel, which shall know every man the plague of his own heart, and spread forth his hands toward this house: 39 Then hear thou in heaven thy dwelling place, and forgive, and do, and give to every man according to his ways, whose heart thou knowest; (for thou, [even] thou only, knowest the hearts of all the children of men;) 40 That they may fear thee all the days that they live in the land which thou gavest unto our fathers. 41 "Moreover concerning a stranger, that [is] not of thy people Israel, but cometh out of a far country for thy name's sake; 42 (For they shall hear of thy great name, and of thy strong hand, and of thy stretched out arm;) when he shall come and pray toward this house; 43 Hear thou in heaven thy dwelling place, and do according to all that the stranger calleth to thee for: that all people of the earth may know thy name, to fear thee, as [do] thy people Israel; and that they may know that this house, which I have builded, is called by thy name. 44 "If thy people go out to battle against their enemy, whithersoever thou shalt send them, and shall pray unto the LORD toward the city which thou hast chosen, and [toward] the house that I have built for thy name: 45 Then hear thou in heaven their prayer and their supplication, and maintain their cause. 46 "If they sin against thee, (for [there is] no man that sinneth not,) and thou be angry with them, and deliver them to the enemy, so that they carry them away captives unto the land of the enemy, far or near; 47 [Yet] if they shall bethink themselves in the land whither they were carried captives, and repent, and make supplication unto thee in the land of them that carried them captives, saying, "We have sinned, and have done perversely, we have committed wickedness"; 48 And [so] return unto thee with all their heart, and with all their soul, in the land of their enemies, which led them away captive, and pray unto thee toward their land, which thou gavest unto their fathers, the city which thou hast chosen, and the house which I have built for thy name: 49 Then hear thou their prayer and their supplication in heaven thy dwelling place, and maintain their cause, 50 And forgive thy people that have sinned against thee, and all their transgressions wherein they have transgressed against thee, and give them compassion before them who carried them captive, that they may have compassion on them: 51 For they [be] thy people, and thine inheritance, which thou broughtest forth out of Egypt, from the midst of the furnace of iron: 52 That thine eyes may be open unto the supplication of thy servant, and unto the supplication of thy people Israel, to hearken unto them in all that they call for unto thee. 53 For thou didst separate them from among all the people of the earth, [to be] thine inheritance, as thou spakest by the hand of Moses thy servant, when thou broughtest our fathers out of Egypt, O Lord GOD." The Temple was their FOCAL POINT for their prayers to YHWH God! Don't think that the sacrifices made in the future will be atoning sacrifices. That job is done in the work of the Messiah upon the execution stake called a "cross." The veil was torn from the top to the bottom signifying that access to the Holy of Holies was made available through the Sacrifice made once for all by the Messiah. On the other hand, the Temple and the Temple worship will still be required to REMEMBER what the Messiah has accomplished! It's a MEMORIAL unto God and His Messiah! It's a TRIBUTE to Them! Also, for feasts that they will have in the future, it was a place that was the slaughter house for the food provided to the Levites and to those participating in the feasts! The Leviyiym ("Levites") had no inheritance in the Land of Israel; their inheritance was YHWH God Himself! The service they provided WAS their inheritance! And, their work will continue throughout the Millennium, the FIRST 1,000 years of the Messiah's Kingdom, and will continue after the Great White Throne judgment, for His Kingdom will NEVER END! (Luke 1:30-33).

Shalom, @Anne2. When I was young and my grandmother on my mom's side was still alive, she told me that her mother was a Jew. However, I was always raised as a Gentile, and didn't know what that would entail. Growing up, I was the son of an Independent Baptist minister, who taught me Baptist beliefs. He also PERSONALLY led me to the Lord Jesus (Yeeshuwa`) when I was almost 6 years old. So, I had the advantage of knowing the Messiah personally, having made Him my Sacrifice for sin! (Isaiah 53:10), for, "He (YHWH God) made Him (the Messiah) to be sin for us, who knew no sin, that we might be made the righteousness of God in Him." (2 Corinthians 5:21). By saying the simple prayer that Yeeshuwa` taught, "God, be merciful to me a sinner," (Luke 18:13), I was justified by God and made a part of His mishpachah (His FAMILY). I was "born again." (John 3:3). So, I consider myself a Messianic Jew, now, although I still know the truths of God's Word highlighted above and have learned MUCH about the definitions of both Hebrew and Greek words (that NEVER should have been forgotten, in my opinion). It's been my experience that those who claim to be "Jehovah's Witnesses" don't know the part highlighted above or are weak on it, not giving it the importance it has in Scripture. I don't trust in a "church" - an "ἐκκλησίαν κυριακῇ" or "ekkleesian kuriakee" or a "called-out (assembly) for-the-Lord" - a simple, local meeting of like-minded people who were instructed to find and give support to one another in matters of faith, living righteously, and teaching others the truth of God's Word.. It's important for one to know the LINK between "Israel," the "Prince of Peace," and "Sarah." All three names/titles have the ONE word in Hebrew, שַׂר or "sar," meaning "prince." In Hebrew, the letters listed in their alefbet (alphabet) are all CONSONANTS! Vowel sounds are consistently said and read, but only for children and those learning Hebrew are the vowel pointing marks included. Thus, the Hebrew core word is "שַׂר" or "SaR," meaning "prince." The first letter shin: with a dot above on the left, is actually a "sin," pronounced as "s" instead of "sh." The patach (the single line under the shin) says "ah" as in "father," and the letter reish is pronounced as an "r." The Hebrew of each name/title is ... Sarah = "שָׂרָה" or "Saaraah," the feminine form, a name meaning "a princess." (The qaamets (a small "T") under the first two letters is represented as "aa " and is pronounced as "aw" in "saw." Thus, her name sounds like "Saw-RAW" with the accent on the last syllable.) Israel = "יִשְׂרָאֵל" or "Yisraa'eel," a name meaning "he-[is]-a-Prince/Contender-with-God." (The two horizontal dots (..) under the alef is a "tseeree," is represented by an "ee " and is pronounced "ay" as in "day." The word also has a qaamets under the reish. The single dot (.) under the yowd, is a chiriq, represented by an "i " and is pronouced as a long "e" as in "beet.") Prince of Peace = "שַׂר־שָׁלוֹם" or "Sar-Shalowm," is a title meaning a "Prince of (or a "Contender for) Peace." One needn't worry; God will make His Son known to them soon, and they will welcome Him back as God's Champion (God's Messiah) to fight against the adversaries of the small nation of Israel, who is surrounded by its enemies, when all seems lost without Him! And, YHWH God SHALL intervene on their behalf! One also shouldn't think that just because they are TEMPORARILY blinded to God's Messiah that they will stay that way! To the contrary, God ALWAYS fulfills His promises and His prophecies 100% and every last detail LITERALLY, just as He did with the 400 propheccies about Yeeshuwa`s FIRST Coming! Nobody "takes their place"; although we can become members of His Kingdom WITH Israel!

Shalom, @Locust. To put it quite simply, they were BLINDED to the fact that Yeeshuwa` was YHWH'S Messiah anointed to be their King. And, according to Paul, Romans 11:25-27 (KJV) 25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, UNTIL the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. 26 And so all Israel shall be saved (rescued; delivered): as it is written, "There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: 27 For this [is] my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins." (Isaiah 59:20-21; 27:9 [see LXX]; Jeremiah 31:33-34). They have NOT permanently fallen; but, they have been TEMPORARILY SHELVED UNTIL they can say, "Baruwkh haba' b-shem YHWH." ("Welcome, the Comer in-the-authority of YHWH.") It's important to note that these were Yeeshuwa`s ("Jesus'") words in Matthew 23:37-39 (and Luke 13:34-35): Matthew 23:37-39 (KJV) 37 "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, [thou] that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under [her] wings, and ye would not! 38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate. 39 For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, 'Blessed [is] he that cometh in the name of the Lord.' (Psalm 118:26)." Thus, He told us that He would NOT return until they could say these words! Furthermore, to see the verse itself gives us one more sign: Psalm 118:26 (KJV) 26 Blessed be he that cometh in the name of the LORD: we have blessed you out of the house of the LORD. Therefore, there must first BE a "house of the LORD," a "בֵּית יְהוָה" or "beeyt YHWH" or "house of-YHWH," out of which they could welcome Him! And, that is what the children of Israel called the Temple!

Shalom, @Locust. This is a partial fulfillment of the latter half of Daniel 9:27. Daniel 9:27 (KJV) 27 And he (the Messiah) shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he (the Messiah) shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he (the Messiah) shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Shabbat shalom, (a Sabbath of peace), to you, @Locust. Nonsense. They are no more done than you are! Are you "done?" Has God ever given up on you? If not, then why would you think that God has given up on them?! (Just as a reminder: I use royal purple for the words of YHWH God, red for the words of one who is anointed, particularly THE Anointed of YHWH, the Messiah of God, Yeeshuwa`, and blue for the words of anyone else. I also use green for narration:) God said, Isaiah 41:8 KJV - 8 "But thou, Israel, [art] my servant, Jacob whom I have chosen, the seed of Abraham my friend." Isaiah 43:10 KJV - 10 "Ye [are] my witnesses," saith the LORD, "and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I [am] he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me." Isaiah 44:1-2 KJV - 1 "Yet now hear, O Jacob my servant; and Israel, whom I have chosen: 2 Thus saith the LORD that made thee, and formed thee from the womb, [which] will help thee; Fear not, O Jacob, my servant; and thou, Jesurun, whom I have chosen." Isaiah 41:9 KJV - 9 "[Thou] whom I have taken from the ends of the earth, and called thee from the chief men thereof, and said unto thee, 'Thou [art] my servant; I have chosen thee, and not cast thee away.'" And, God said, 1 Chronicles 16:22 22 "Touch not mine anointed, and do my prophets no harm." So, we now read this: Ezekiel 37:1-28 (KJV) 1 The hand of the LORD was upon me, and carried me out in the spirit of the LORD, and set me down in the midst of the valley which [was] full of bones, 2 And caused me to pass by them round about: and, behold, [there were] very many in the open valley; and, lo, [they were] very dry. 3 And he said unto me, "Son of man, can these bones live?" And I answered, "O Lord GOD, thou knowest." 4 Again he said unto me, "Prophesy upon these bones, and say unto them, "'O ye dry bones, hear the word of the LORD. 5 Thus saith the Lord GOD unto these bones; "'"Behold, I will cause breath to enter into you, and ye shall live: 6 And I will lay sinews upon you, and will bring up flesh upon you, and cover you with skin, and put breath in you, and ye shall live; and ye shall know that I [am] the LORD."'" 7 So I prophesied as I was commanded: and as I prophesied, there was a noise, and behold a shaking (rattling), and the bones came together, bone to his bone. 8 And when I beheld, lo, the sinews and the flesh came up upon them, and the skin covered them above: but [there was] no breath in them. 9 Then said he unto me, "Prophesy unto the wind, prophesy, son of man, and say to the wind, "'Thus saith the Lord GOD; "'"Come from the four winds, O breath, and breathe upon these slain, that they may live."'" 10 So I prophesied as he commanded me, and the breath came into them, and they lived, and stood up upon their feet, an exceeding great army. 11 Then he said unto me, "Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel: behold, they say, "'Our bones are dried, and our hope is lost: we are cut off for our parts.' 12 "Therefore prophesy and say unto them, "'Thus saith the Lord GOD; "'"Behold, O my people, I will open your graves, and cause you to come up out of your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel. 13 And ye shall know that I [am] the LORD, when I have opened your graves, O my people, and brought you up out of your graves, 14 And shall put my spirit in you, and ye shall live, and I shall place you in your own land: then shall ye know that I the LORD have spoken [it], and performed [it]," saith the LORD.'" 15 The word of the LORD came again unto me, saying, 16 "Moreover, thou son of man, take thee one stick, and write upon it, "'For Judah, and for the children of Israel his companions': "then take another stick, and write upon it, "'For Joseph, the stick of Ephraim, and [for] all the house of Israel his companions': 17 "And join them one to another into one stick; and they shall become one in thine hand. 18 "And when the children of thy people shall speak unto thee, saying, "'Wilt thou not shew us what thou [meanest] by these?' 19 "Say unto them, "'Thus saith the Lord GOD; "'"Behold, I will take the stick of Joseph, which [is] in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel his fellows, and will put them with him, [even] with the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, and they shall be one in mine hand."' 20 "And the sticks whereon thou writest shall be in thine hand before their eyes. 21 And say unto them, "'Thus saith the Lord GOD; "'"Behold, I will take the children of Israel from among the heathen, whither they be gone, and will gather them on every side, and bring them into their own land: 22 And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all: 23 Neither shall they defile themselves any more with their idols, nor with their detestable things, nor with any of their transgressions: but I will save them out of all their dwellingplaces, wherein they have sinned, and will cleanse them: so shall they be my people, and I will be their God. 24 "'"And David my servant [shall be] king over them; and they all shall have one shepherd: they shall also walk in my judgments, and observe my statutes, and do them. 25 And they shall dwell in the land that I have given unto Jacob my servant, wherein your fathers have dwelt; and they shall dwell therein, [even] they, and their children, and their children's children for ever: and my servant David [shall be] their prince for ever. 26 Moreover I will make a covenant of peace with them; it shall be an everlasting covenant with them: and I will place them, and multiply them, and will set my sanctuary in the midst of them for evermore. 27 My tabernacle also shall be with them: yea, I will be their God, and they shall be my people. 28 And the heathen shall know that I the LORD do sanctify Israel, when my sanctuary shall be in the midst of them for evermore."'" Read the words of God carefully! God will NEVER be "done" with the children of Israel! Isaiah 66:5-24 (KJV) 5 Hear the word of the LORD, ye that tremble at his word; "Your brethren that hated you, that cast you out for my name's sake, said, "'Let the LORD be glorified': "but he shall appear to your joy, and they shall be ashamed. 6 A voice of noise from the city, a voice from the temple, a voice of the LORD that rendereth recompence to his enemies. 7 Before she travailed, she brought forth; before her pain came, she was delivered of a man child. 8 Who hath heard such a thing? who hath seen such things? Shall the earth be made to bring forth in one day? [or] shall a nation be born at once? for as soon as Zion travailed, she brought forth her children. 9 Shall I bring to the birth, and not cause to bring forth?" saith the LORD: "shall I cause to bring forth, and shut [the womb]?" saith thy God. 10 Rejoice ye with Jerusalem, and be glad with her, all ye that love her: rejoice for joy with her, all ye that mourn for her: 11 That ye may suck, and be satisfied with the breasts of her consolations; that ye may milk out, and be delighted with the abundance of her glory. 12 For thus saith the LORD, "Behold, I will extend peace to her like a river, and the glory of the Gentiles like a flowing stream: then shall ye suck, ye shall be borne upon [her] sides, and be dandled upon [her] knees. 13 As one whom his mother comforteth, so will I comfort you; and ye shall be comforted in Jerusalem." 14 And when ye see [this], your heart shall rejoice, and your bones shall flourish like an herb: and the hand of the LORD (the Messiah) shall be known toward his servants, and [his] indignation toward his enemies. 15 For, behold, the LORD will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire. 16 For by fire and by his sword will the LORD plead with all flesh: and the slain of the LORD shall be many. 17 "They that sanctify themselves, and purify themselves in the gardens behind one [tree] in the midst, eating swine's flesh, and the abomination, and the mouse, shall be consumed together," saith the LORD. 18 "For I [know] their works and their thoughts: it shall come, that I will gather all nations and tongues; and they shall come, and see my glory. 19 And I will set a sign among them, and I will send those that escape of them unto the nations, [to] Tarshish, Pul, and Lud, that draw the bow, [to] Tubal, and Javan, [to] the isles afar off, that have not heard my fame, neither have seen my glory; and they shall declare my glory among the Gentiles. 20 And they shall bring all your brethren [for] an offering unto the LORD out of all nations upon horses, and in chariots, and in litters, and upon mules, and upon swift beasts, to my holy mountain Jerusalem," saith the LORD, "as the children of Israel bring an offering in a clean vessel into the house of the LORD. 21 And I will also take of them for priests [and] for Levites," saith the LORD. 22 "For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me," saith the LORD, "so shall your seed and your name remain. 23 And it shall come to pass, [that] from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me," saith the LORD. 24 "And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh." God still makes a difference between the children of Israel and the Gentiles, just not WITHIN the Messiah. But, Jews don't need to become "Christians"; Gentiles who believe become "JEWS," when they become circumcised in heart! Romans 2:12-29 (KJV) 12 For as many as have sinned without (outside of the) law (Gentiles) shall also perish without (outside of the) law: and as many as have sinned in the law (children of Israel) shall be judged by the law; 13 (For not the hearers of the law [are] just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified. 14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: 15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and [their] thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;) 16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel. 17 Behold, thou art called a Jew, and restest in the law, and makest thy boast of God, 18 And knowest [his] will, and approvest the things that are more excellent, being instructed out of the law; 19 And art confident that thou thyself art a guide of the blind, a light of them which are in darkness, 20 An instructor of the foolish, a teacher of babes, which hast the form of knowledge and of the truth in the law. 21 Thou therefore which teachest another, teachest thou not thyself? thou that preachest a man should not steal, dost thou steal? 22 Thou that sayest a man should not commit adultery, dost thou commit adultery? thou that abhorrest idols, dost thou commit sacrilege? 23 Thou that makest thy boast of the law, through breaking the law dishonourest thou God? 24 For the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles through you, as it is written. 25 For circumcision verily profiteth, if thou keep the law: BUT if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision. 26 Therefore if the uncircumcision (Gentiles) keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision? 27 And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfil the law, judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision dost transgress the law? 28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither [is that] circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: 29 But he [is] a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision [is that] of the heart, in the spirit, [and] not in the letter; whose praise [is] not of men, but of God. People frequently have the wrong idea about these verses, which is why I resorted to quoting more of the chapter. Throughout the chapter, there is still a difference between the two groups of people, the "circumcision" (the children of Israel) and the "uncircumcision" (everyone else). It's settled in the next chapter that NEITHER GROUP can be "those who keep the Law," and that the Law was for the purpose of teaching the children of Israel that they COULD NOT keep the Law, despite having it in their possession! In the same way, the Gentiles couldn't keep the Law simply because they did NOT HAVE the Law! "In the spirit, and not in the letter," means "in confession and attitude, not in writing!" It's not about the WRITTEN Law; but rather about the confession and attitude about the Law! When one comes humbly to God, whether Jew or Gentile, his or her attitude of humility is what God accepts! It's NOT about being Jew or Gentile! Yeeshuwa` said this: Matthew 9:9-13 (KJV) 9 And as Jesus passed forth from thence, he saw a man, named Matthew, sitting at the receipt of custom (taking taxes for Rome): and he saith unto him, "Follow me." And he arose, and followed him. 10 And it came to pass, as Jesus sat at meat in the house, behold, many publicans and sinners came and sat down with him and his disciples. 11 And when the Pharisees saw [it], they said unto his disciples, "Why eateth your Master with publicans and sinners?" 12 But when Jesus heard [that], he said unto them, "They that be whole need not a physician, but they that are sick. 13 But go ye and learn what [that] meaneth, 'I will have mercy, and not sacrifice': for I am not come to call the righteous, but SINNERS to repentance." David said, Psa 51:17 KJV - 17 The sacrifices of God [are] a broken spirit: a broken and a contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise. Psa 34:18 KJV - 18 The LORD [is] nigh unto them that are of a broken heart; and saveth such as be of a contrite spirit. And God said through His prophet Yeesha`yahuw (Isaiah), Isa 57:15 KJV - 15 For thus saith the high and lofty One that inhabiteth eternity, whose name [is] Holy; "I dwell in the high and holy [place], with him also [that is] of a contrite and humble spirit, to revive the spirit of the humble, and to revive the heart of the contrite ones." They are a "chosen people" out of all the other peoples of the world, but BEYOND that, anyone from any people can ALSO be a part of His people if they have a humble spirit (attitude), and a contrite heart ("core" of one's thinking). They are INCLUDED with God's original people. Right now, the original people HAVE BEEN TEMPORARILY BLINDED that Gentiles might be graffed into the "Olive Tree." But, the day SHALL come when they return to their God with that "humble spirit and contrite heart."

Shabbat shalom, @truth7t7. I'm not "protecting" anything evil! One should be aware of how the Jews got into this situation with a "Talmud" in the first place! Furthermore, it's wrong for "Christians," who are supposed to act like "Christ," to have treated the Jews so poorly in history as to PUSH them into writing such "filth" about them! "CHRISTIANS" (in name only, I might add) have "blackened the eye" of "Christ," to them! When "Christians" have KILLED their ancestors and their own families in the name of "Christ," what are they going to think about "Christ?" Can you see how this worked? Put yourself in their shoes for a moment! What conclusions would YOU have drawn if you were in their shoes? Most Jews, then and today, DON'T KNOW THE REAL "JESUS CHRIST!" They only know what "He is like" by how His followers act and have treated them! It's WRONG for them to treat other human beings as less than the "image of God" that YHWH God made them! However, that goes DOUBLE for those who claim to know the Son of God! They have a better relationship today with USA's AMBASSADORS than they do with CHRISTIANS from America! What does that say about "Christians?" We can't do anything about the past; what's done is done. HOWEVER, we should NEVER CONDONE what those who called themselves "Christians" have so viciously done to them as a people THOUSANDS OF TIMES in Europe! We as true believers in Christ need to take some RESPONSIBILITY for the past actions of "Christians" and treat them as Christ and Paul would have! As I've already said, I DO NOT CONDONE the teachings of the Talmud! In fact, I would ACTIVELY CONDEMN them! BUT, one must UNDERSTAND WHY those teachings were started at all! Those teachings were started REACTIONALLY BECAUSE of their treatment by "Christians!" So, what's done is done. How do we UNDO what cannot be undone? We start AFRESH! We start treating them as Christ's literal FAMILY! After all, Yeeshuwa` haMaashiyach (which is how we must call Him to them) told us to "love one another" and said, John 13:33-35 (KJV) 33 "Little children, yet a little while I am with you. Ye shall seek me: and as I said unto the Jews, Whither I go, ye cannot come; so now I say to you. 34 A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another. 35 By this shall all [men] know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another." That includes the Jews, for Paul added, Romans 2:1-11 (KJV) 1 Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things. 2 But we are sure that the judgment of God is according to truth against them which commit such things. 3 And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God? 4 Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance? 5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God; 6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds: 7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life: 8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, 9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, OF THE JEW FIRST, AND ALSO OF THE GENTILE; 10 But glory, honour, and peace, TO EVERY MAN THAT WORKETH GOOD, TO THE JEW FIRST, AND ALSO TO THE GENTILE: 11 For THERE IS NO RESPECT OF PERSONS WITH GOD. And, why is there "no respect of persons" with God? Because "ALL HAVE SINNED AND COME SHORT OF THE GLORY OF GOD!" (Romans 3:23) and, Galatians 3:28 (KJV) 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one IN Christ Jesus.

Shalom, @truth7t7. I'm not leveling a charge of anti-Semitism against @Luther or anyone else. I'm just saying that such limited teaching can LEAD to antisemitism. And, you're right! That's PRECISELY what the spirit (attitude) of anti-Messiah (antichrist) is! It's being AGAINST their MESSIAH! But, "blindness in part" has been TAUGHT to them since they were children! AND, the way that so-called "Christians" have been toward the Jews down through the centuries has only served to SUPPORT such anti-Messianic attitudes! When in the Crusades, some chose not to ride all the way to Jerusalem to fight against the Moors, and stopped and fought JEWS (and ARABS) closer to home instead, what are the Jews (and Arabs) supposed to think about the "Christ" whom these "Christians" claim? They were taught to FEAR the name of "Jesus Christ" and those who speak that name! So, if that fear is written down in the teachings of the Talmud, it should come as no surprise to believers! There's also a certain vindictiveness in the teachings of the Talmud by the very people who should KNOW BETTER! They were often mistreated down through the centuries; so, many teachers have taught retaliation! They were in a survivalist mentality! They treated goyim (Gentiles) as dogs and cattle, useful animals who were even to be considered the PROPERTY of the Jews whom they served! These are teachings in DIRECT OPPOSITION to God's teachings in the Torah! However, in some things, they were RIGHT! Some Catholics DO have the tendancy to worship the images of their saints, praying to them, instead of praying to GOD! That practice is INDEED "idolatry!" Yeeshuwa` haMashiyach ("Jesus the Christ") DID teach His disciples to pray to God, His Father, and not to Himself! He was also called rightly, "the SON of God," and taught them that they could be "sons of God," as well! The lineage of His adoptive father, Yowceef ("Joseph"), was traced back to AVraahaam ("Abraham"), but the lineage of His mother, Miryam ("Mary") was traced all the way back to the Creator God as Adam's Father! As I've said, I never read the Talmud directly. It is a COMMENTARY on the Tanakh, at best, and the teachings of Rabbis who were trying to survive the "times of the Gentiles," and the "times of Jacob's Trouble." I just read Grace Note's "Talmud on Christ", which is written "By Rev. I. B. Pranaitis, Roman Catholic Priest; Master of Theology and Professor of the Hebrew Language at the Imperial Ecclesiastical Academy of the Roman Catholic Church in St. Petersburg." It's a short read; so, I would encourage anyone to read it. But, in its reading, one should remember that this work was written from the mentality of the very "Church" who were the CHIEF instigators of the hatred of the Jews in Europe down through the years! Their teachings were RESPONSIBLE for the Crusades and the Inquisitions! I can see the mistrust and the hatred and the "it's them or us" mentality on BOTH sides, and it saddens me to tears. Neither "side" is completely right or completely wrong, and I fear that it will take the Messiah's intervention to rectify these teachings when He returns. He is the "Christ" whom the Catholic Church worships, and the Jews still expect the real Messiah to come, the ONE who will fulfill the prophecies and establish the Kingdom of God in Israel. BOTH sides don't have much correct and MUCH MORE wrong! Christ taught: Matthew 5:43-45 (KJV) 43 "Ye have heard that it hath been said, 'Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.' 44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; 45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust." And, these teachers of the Jews have forgotten the teachings of the Torah they claim to respect! Exodus 22:21 (KJV) 21 "Thou shalt neither vex a stranger, nor oppress him: for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt." and Exodus 23:9 (KJV) 9 "Also thou shalt not oppress a stranger: for ye know the heart of a stranger, seeing ye were strangers in the land of Egypt." But, it is for US to bury our prejudices against the Jews and lead them to their Messiah, who is actually GOD'S Messiah - the LORD'S Anointed - who will be their wise and righteous King!