Secularist

I am going to bed. If a moderator can fix the above post I appreciate it. If not, then I will try to fix the problem at a later time. I think it is coherent enough to follow. If not then please ask me.

I appreciate your participation and comments. First, if you insist that I point out the flaws in kari's argument, I will. I do not think this is the crux of the debate that we both seek. Please correct me if I am wrong. Kant is dense and Nietzsche cannot be accurately labeled. Why do you insinuate that I am a nihilist? Second, I am not familiar with nihilism. I do not know how this became the default position of atheism. I do agree that an enlighten state is where you apply your own meaning to life, but it is not the default and I am not sure how this is associated with nihilism. I also appreciate Adam Smith's definition of sympathy. We all care about our well being of our fellow man while simultaneously taking interest in our self. I think this is what drives humanity. I did not. Many ethical system did not. Somehow religions think they have a right to monopolize on morals. They do not. I actually find many religious morals, not judicious. I do not believe in a binary judicious system; either believe in Jesus or rot in hell. From doing what? Do you really think man in his "natural state" is going to rape women and other's newborn children? Our judicial system is based on separation of church and state. I would hate to see women's right as secondary Biblical passage. The same for homosexuals. The Bible is not the ultimate say in our judicial system. It is unfortunate if you see otherwise. This is both a perverse and bleak view of humanity.The United States of America had a strong Deist impact. This country's morality was not founded upon Pilgrim or Quakers values. It was founded upon reason and freedom. Today, I do not have freedom. Many people think I am unfit and inferior to hold a public office. Why? Because I do not believe in the literal word of God. Most Christians do not. They interpret the word of God to their convenience. I understand that we are all brethren and that there is a common good, but I do not believe. If you would like to discuss this common good, please feel free to do so. It may be, but it might not be your God's works. You can always be humble and say " I do not know, but lets try and find out." I like this thought, but lets continue it another time. I am getting tired. I agree. I used to be a deist and they brutalized me. I could write a story, but I won't....for the time being. I am. Please ask and I will expand. Please make it your only question. On what? This is so wrong. I appreciate diversity and thought. I await your thought. I gave you much to choose from. I hope you pick wisely and answer in the same degree.

This conversation has turned into complete absurdity. I'll be happy to to civilly and intelligently discuss ethics who is sincerely open to the idea. I am not going to continue in this groove of perversity with someone telling that the only ethical choice I have to kill the weak or be killed. This is one of the most asinine and sophomoric claims that I have heard in a long time. The theory of evolution is a scientific theory. It is not an ethical system.

You do not have moral authority either. Anyone who thinks the Earth was created in six and is 6,000 years olds is a concern and not reasonable. I find your arguments unreasonable, filled with emotion and bigotry. Until you prove God, you Christian principles are the fabrication of man. Why do you constantly say that anyone who believe in evolution should go around and kill the weak? Your statement is ludicrous. Go to the library and check out books about ethics. Not all ethical systems come from your God. Nature created us, and humans care about morality. You continue to be illogical. If you appreciate science, then the onus is on you. Why are you so rude and juvenile? Morality exists outside of your God. Why do you think otherwise? Why do you not believe in reason, evidence, empirics, and science. You said that you like cosmology. I was hoping that you could say something intelligent on the subject. Was this to much to ask? It hurts to think, eh?

Wow. You continue in your groove of perversity. The theory of natural selection is not murderous and cannibalistic. The theory of evolution is not an ethical system. Stop your juvenile rage. I do not have a moral authority, but I do have personal responsibility. If I ever catch you or anyone starving their child to death, then I will speak up. Your are arguments are myopic. You are beginning to become of a concern. I am beginning to become frighten by your thinking. It is becoming dangerous, intolerant, and bigotry. You must back up your claim that I have no right to critically evaluate morals. Natural selection is not an ethical system. Why do you constantly think so? Your claims are bordering on absurdity. The onus is on you. Again you have superstition and I have reason. I am chalking you up as a minority and not the Christian norm. I will not judge Christianity by your actions alone. You keep thinking that I am immorally inferior to you. Please explain your ego. Ok, then enlighten us. Please give us a detailed analysis of the inflationary period. Highlight any potential underdetermination and theory-ladenness issues with the contemporaneous cosmological theories. This is your rant, and not mine.

From an evolutionary point of view...sure I do! Did you forgot that humans have the ability to ration. I observe that ration continuously eludes you. Again, I ask if you disregard reason, rational, empirics, science, critical thought, and intelligence. Killing under the survival of the fittest is for food and nurture. You have failed to show how killing another human being fits into survival of the fittest. It seems like you think we hunt each other, kill each other, and commit act of cannibalism. You thinking is perverse. Can you please prove your God based on logic, reason, empirics, positive proofs? First you must prove your God exists before you state that they are God-given laws. I have yet to see you prove God. Then again, you ignore reason. Can you please tell me how morals and ethics were constructed outside of your God? Please elaborate on the Ancient Greeks, who they gave birth to the scientific method, which you have no use for. Please expand further on the particular verse where the Bible explains the scientific method. Then enlighten us on the verse where the Bible guides us on how to use the scientific method to gain a better understanding of our world. Can you please explain your ego. Why do you think the Earth is center stage in a cosmic play between good and evil? Do you have any knowledge of science at all? An animal is any of a kingdom (Animalia) of living things including many-celled organisms and often many of the single-celled ones (as protozoans) that typically differ from plants in having cells without cellulose walls, in lacking chlorophyll and the capacity for photosynthesis, in requiring more complex food materials (as proteins), in being organized to a greater degree of complexity, and in having the capacity for spontaneous movement and rapid motor responses to stimulation. I find that you are constantly rude and filled with biased judgment. Is this what the Bible teaches you?

You do not have the right to kill the weak. Stop looking at my morality strictly based on Malthusian economics (Malthus was a pastor). I deserve better than this. I am sorry that you do not like the fact that organic life requires organic life. We cannot metabolism inorganic matter. Atheism all boils down to the survival of the fittest. You are being myopic. You are saying that an evolutionist needs to follow one ethical law; survival of the fittest. This is hogwash. Go to the library and check out a book on ethics. Not every ethical teacher believed in a Christian God. I take it that you are saying that the Earth was created in six days and is only six thousand years old. Why do you not believe in science, empirics, reason, rational thought, logic, and intelligence?

You do not have the right to kill the weak. Stop looking at my morality strictly based on Malthusian economics (Malthus was a pastor). I deserve better than this. I am sorry that you do not like the fact that organic life requires organic life. We cannot metabolism inorganic matter. Atheism all boils down to the survival of the fittest. You are being myopic. You are saying that an evolutionist needs to follow one ethical law; survival of the fittest. This is hogwash. Go to the library and check out a book on ethics. Not every ethical teacher believed in a Christian God. I take it that you are saying that the Earth was created in six days and is only six thousand years old. Why do you not believe in science, empirics, reason, rational thought, logic, and intelligence?

I hold people accountable for their actions. I respect and get along with many Christians, but there are some that think the Bible is law. While it may be to you, I think we should tolerate other's belief and let your God take care of the spiritual realm. It is a minority, but homosexuals become targets due to the Bible. Creationists feel the need to waste public resources trying to get creationism to be taught as a science. It is clearly not. I do not know why some Christians feel threatened by the theory of evolution. I do not like people condemning me to hell. That is up to your God, and not you. Wow! Who are you to say otherwise? So only people who believe in God can hold others accountable for their actions? This is bogus. Why cannot I not say that it is wrong for people to drive drunk? Why am I unworthy to critically evaluate ethics? Why do you insult me by saying that I cannot be moral without God? Can you define "weak" and "strong"? Could you tell my why it would be ethical for a "strong" person to kill a "weak" person? I fail to see your argument. I do not need God to tell me that intentionally murdering someone is wrong. Obviously, you do. That would be amusing. What song are you going to sing? Do you take request? I am humble and do not need to stroke my own ego. Why do you continue to insult me? I am here for friendly debate. Why does Worthy Boards accept non-believers? I am abiding by their policies. If you do not want me here, then send a request to Worthy Boards. If I am breaking any rules, please let me know. I am responsible for my actions.

Double post

I am curious about your Thomas Paine quote. Could you please provide a reference. I would like to examine the context of the quote. I do, but it really depends on how you define god. Do you denounce thunder and solar deities?

Just who are YOU to hole ME accountable for anything? The only person I'm accountable to is God. I hold people accountable for their actions. Why is this wrong? Are you saying that the next time I see a mother allowing her baby to crawl on a sidewalk littered with glass and trash, I should not speak up? This baby was also eating something off of the sidewalk. I said something. What would you have done? Leave it up to God and prayed? Why are you so testy? This is the the second unpleasant post I came across. I have been enjoying the conversation so far and find the majority of people pleasant. I think this post is unpleasant. Then I take it that this will be our last conversation.

This is a nice thread on deism, but I do not understand your position Wonderboy. Why are you against progression, empirics, and scientific knowledge? Why do you condemn good people to hell? I thought that was up to your God and not you. You prove me wrong, by stating any Christians has the moral and absolute say on who goes to Hell and who goes to Heaven. Why are you playing God?

I ask that you keep inerrant and literal interpretations out of politics and science. Do you agree with me or not? I hold you accountable for your definitions of the Bible. Is that too much to ask? Is the Bible to be taken literal or is it a metaphysical guide open to interpretion because it is entrenched in symbolism, metaphors, and allegories. How do you interpret the Bible? Are there any parts that you cherry pick and do not take literal?

I like to debate Christianity since it is the status quo. I do not know Islam, Hinduism, or Buddhism. Buddhism has been argued that it is an atheist religion. I am not sure if I completely agree, but their gods are not personal and do not intervene in their lives like a Christian God. I appreciate deism since it has roots in empiricism and reason. Modern deism also incorporates scientific knowledge. I do not care if you believe in God, but I ask that you keep inerrant and literal interpretations out of politics and science. Is this too much to ask? You are welcomed.