mikeinsarasota

You seem to think you are more qualified to tackle this problem than a senator. What qualifications do you have?

No it isn't. I've never seen his movie and don't pay attention to him. I pay attention to people who actually know what they're talking about. Al Gore is no scientist.

That's nice. You can agree all you want, but is your agreement based on fact, or emotional motivation? I have not made up my mind about it. Both sides have compelling arguments as to the sources of our climate change, and I'm still considering the data, have been doing so for years. Everything isn't as black and white as you'd like.

Have you been to every home in the Nation and examined them thus exposing the blatant disregard of which you speak? I find it very telling that you feel that the earth will rise up and punish the people who inhabit it. I thought God was the Judge. I've been delivered of my guilt and self loathing. I don't need to work it off in some form of Envirofascist penance. Primarily as Christians we are to be concerned with the eternal welfare of those who are Unsaved by reaching them with the Gospel. Not serving some Green Goddess who will rise up in punishment. The Lord has spoken; Ge 8:22 While the earth remaineth, seedtime and harvest, and cold and heat, and summer and winter, and day and night shall not cease. Everything else is a lie. The earth will remain until He returns and the whole Creation is gobbled up with fervent heat. 2Pe 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. Even the works of the Green Gospel which has as it's primary goal and obfuscation to save the earth for future inhabitants in extreme urgency. God is well able to care for His Creation. Meanwhile I'll focus on Saving souls in this nightmare of moral relativism in which we currently find ourselves. Peace, Dave No one is anthropomorphising the planet. At least I wasn't. If we don't take care of our ecosystem, it will cease to be able to support life. It's as simple as that.

I'm glad to here that. There are many liberals who care about the environment that despise Al Gore. You may want to find another scapegoat. And I think you are getting hung up too much on the tax thing.

I don't live in those places, and I'm not posting on a message board based in any of those places. I don't think that only we should be good stewards. Everyone should be. They are not excluded. On the contrary. If our country is under water, we won't have a civilization. A bit drastic, but do you see my point? Environmentalism, though it has become a bad word, is simply realizing that we can't have our way with the planet and then expect it to support life. Fallacy? Do you have evidence for this? Or are you pushing a fallacy as well?

Has anyone said we should trash the planet? If anyone has, please enlighten me. No one had advocated trashing the planet, but neither has anyone (myself, lorax excluded) advocated taking care of it. It seems the predominating rationale for this is that Jesus will take us home when He pleases and the earth will die, so who cares what we do to it in the meantime.

Treating the Lord's creation with respect doesn't constitute a religion. We are all His creation, should we start treating each other with the blatant disregard that we've been showing to the environment? Do you find it un-Christian to be a good steward of the land? "Who exchanged the truth of God for the lie, and worshipped and served the creation rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen." (Rom. 1:25) In my opinion the extreme environmentalists do this, and many Christian groups are following in lock-step with the environmentalist movements which emphasize the environment over human beings. So I think that environmentalism could very well be a form of religion. They are not putting the environment before humans, well most of them anyway. Can you not comprehend the fact that if our environment becomes unsuitable for life, we die, as a species. By salvaging what's left of the environment we ensure our survival. Ensure our survival? What Bible have you been reading? Mine says that God will destroy this planet as we know it to make a new kingdom for us to reign with him. I'm not saying to live like "pigs" as Lorax wants to call himself, but nothing we can do will change the Truth of Earth's fate. Yes, the world will end when He wants it to. We all get it. But in the meantime, should we just trash the place because we know it's going to end? We don't have to worship it, but it is after something He crafted to support us. Shouldn't we treat it with respect? Don't you ever go into the mountains or woods and sit and marvel at how wonderful it all is, and respect it? Or do you go into the woods and throw candy wrappers and trash on the ground, because, hey, He'll end it when He wants anyway?

Treating the Lord's creation with respect doesn't constitute a religion. We are all His creation, should we start treating each other with the blatant disregard that we've been showing to the environment? Do you find it un-Christian to be a good steward of the land? No, but, like I said in an above post, we don't need to be taxed into oblivion in order to do it, for a hoas. What, in your opinion, then would motivate people to be good stewards of the land? Because so far people don't seem to be doing it on their own volition.

Treating the Lord's creation with respect doesn't constitute a religion. We are all His creation, should we start treating each other with the blatant disregard that we've been showing to the environment? Do you find it un-Christian to be a good steward of the land? "Who exchanged the truth of God for the lie, and worshipped and served the creation rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen." (Rom. 1:25) In my opinion the extreme environmentalists do this, and many Christian groups are following in lock-step with the environmentalist movements which emphasize the environment over human beings. So I think that environmentalism could very well be a form of religion. They are not putting the environment before humans, well most of them anyway. Can you not comprehend the fact that if our environment becomes unsuitable for life, we die, as a species. By salvaging what's left of the environment we ensure our survival.

Treating the Lord's creation with respect doesn't constitute a religion. We are all His creation, should we start treating each other with the blatant disregard that we've been showing to the environment? Do you find it un-Christian to be a good steward of the land?

He scares me more all the time. I know, right? But hunterpoet's posts aren't, by far, the most extremist around. I was talking about Obama! He scares me. He doesn't scare me...he puzzles me. I think Obama is a regular guy .....who is being manipulated by someone or a group of someones. That scares ME. And, not to go off topic, I heard today that McCain had to fire one of his top staff for close ties to Saudi Arabia. Strange, huh? I don't think Obama is a regular guy at all. He bowled a 30 something for goodness sake. He doesn't eat the local foods of the cities and towns that he wants to lead when campaigning there. He orders wine at working class bars. He's a rich politician through and through, been living off the public's dime for too long. It's nice he's gotten some young people excited about politics. But it's a shame he's all rhetoric. An empty suit, with a vacuous voting record.

I'm pretty sure they couldn't care less. They're not asking you to get married to a person of the same sex, so you don't have anything to worry about. the most ironic part of the whole situation is that the judges were appointed by republicans. That probably doesn't mean much in California. Where was Reagan from again? Why must you try/seek to cause strife everywhere you post? I'm sorry if you interpret my posts as such, brother, that is not my intention at all. Quite the opposite. I realize that most members here are of a particular mind politically, spiritually, and intellectually. But that may not be the only way of thinking. Take this thread for example. People are talking about a state sinking into the ocean, a WHOLE STATE. Some members on this board live there. If it sunk brother Joe would be with them. The are good Christians living in California, let's not bite off the nose to spite the face here. And I see a lot of that happening here on the board. We are supposed to be considerate, contemplative, good Christians, but I don't see a lot of it with comments like that. My point in asking where Reagan was from was to show that while there may be some bad stuff there, there is also some good stuff. With the good comes the bad in this world, unfortunately. So the question becomes do we forsake the good for the bad? In considering all aspects of an issue we can stop unfounded rumours that plant the seeds of hatred, and can spread the love that Jesus so givingly bestowes upon us. So you see, my point is exactly the opposite of seeking to cause strife, it is to prevent hatred.

He scares me more all the time. I know, right? But hunterpoet's posts aren't, by far, the most extremist around.

A lot of people would die if that happened.

I'm pretty sure they couldn't care less. They're not asking you to get married to a person of the same sex, so you don't have anything to worry about. the most ironic part of the whole situation is that the judges were appointed by republicans. That probably doesn't mean much in California. Where was Reagan from again?

I'm pretty sure they couldn't care less. They're not asking you to get married to a person of the same sex, so you don't have anything to worry about. the most ironic part of the whole situation is that the judges were appointed by republicans.

This is filled with so much self-contradiction my head is spinning.

As a Christian (and a Pastor), I am also a Research Scientist with many degrees, primarily focused in Molecular Biology and Neuropharmacology. And I can tell you that *all* scientists study God's creation using man's logic. Your assertion that this precludes any meaningful conclusion is invalid. History proves that. Truthful tenants: 1) It IS possible to understand creation by reason. 2) It is NOT possible to understand God by reason. He can only be understood by revelation. shalom -- shlomo How many degrees, if you don't mind me humbly asking? And it's not my conclusion, but that of many members here who have made their opinions of the subject known. Grace to you Mike -- "Humbly," I would be uncomfortable just listing them - it would be like tooting my own horn. But if you are truly interested from what background and experience I speak, here is a short summary of my life of learning and teaching. I was on a physics scholarship to University of Houston in the 70s. So I took a lot of high-level math and physics courses. In the middle of that time, I began working for the UT Medical School, department of Reproductive Medicine, on an androgen grant studying some of the then more cutting edge fertility methods such as IVF (In Vitro Fertilization) and GIFT (Gamete Intra-Fallopian Transfer). I enjoyed the research and everyone at the medical school told me that I needed an MD to do any real (clinical) research, so I dropped the Physics program and entered into pre-med. But I was more interested in bench research than clinical, so I combined the coursework for a double major BS in Biophysics and Chemistry. In the early 80s I transferred to the UT Mental Sciences Institute, working for the department called Neurobiology of Aging. There I did mostly neuropsychopharmacology research looking at differential affects of neuroleptics by age (NIA grant). I felt that I needed more pharmacology academics so I completed a Master's program at UTGSBS (UT Graduate School of Biomedical Sciences) in Pharmacology (coursework was really pharmacokinetics). During that time I transferred to the department called Biological Psychiatry and spent several years investigating animal role models for drug-induced psychosis. You can still find most of my publications from this time online and in journals such as the Journal of Neuroscience. In the late 80s, rapid advances were being made in the area of oncogene research and I had an exciting opportunity to do some cutting edge research in the genetics of cancer at UT M.D. Anderson Cancer Center. I was already very experienced in standard biological and chemical assay techniques (HPLC, TLC, GCMS, Binding and Update scintillation processes, etc), but was doing much more of my own data analysis. Following that, I moved to the Clinical Trauma Research Team for Hermann Hospital (Orthopaedic Surgery). Was doing really cool Biomedical Engineering stuff like modeling MRI scans in 3D to design custom implants for total hip and total knee replacements. The data were shipped to Dow Corning to actually cut the titanium. Also investigated the area of materials strength testing for various cements between the titanium implant and the femoral head bone material (using cadavers). Becuase the 3D modeling required a lot of math and computer programming (finite element analysis, etc), I enrolled in another graduate program at UH for an MS in Information Technology (CIS was the actual degree field). Those were also fun years, even though I did not publish very much. But in the mid 90's I got my "call to ministry" after being saved 15 years. I then enrolled at the largest Houston-based Protestant Seminary, the Houston Graduate School of Theology, and completed a Masters of Theology (an MA *not* the more difficult MDiv). Since then I have continued to "tent-make" in the science and engineering fields, while teaching and pastoring within the Church. Anybody who loves to learn like I do usually loves to teach as well (we enjoy sharing knowledge) and I have taught in may places: Some of the most memorable include Computer Operating Systems at the University of New Mexico at Carlsbad, Lunar and Planetary Geology at Rice University (I had a minor in geology on my first BS), and I still teach Theology and NT Greek in an accredited Bible College (not Seminary) in southeast Houston. Now, if you took the time to read all of that, my level of respect for you has increased. shlomo toot, toot. And what does all of this qualify you for?

As a Christian (and a Pastor), I am also a Research Scientist with many degrees, primarily focused in Molecular Biology and Neuropharmacology. And I can tell you that *all* scientists study God's creation using man's logic. Your assertion that this precludes any meaningful conclusion is invalid. History proves that. Truthful tenants: 1) It IS possible to understand creation by reason. 2) It is NOT possible to understand God by reason. He can only be understood by revelation. shalom -- shlomo How many degrees, if you don't mind me humbly asking? And it's not my conclusion, but that of many members here who have made their opinions of the subject known.

That is SO sad. Are you saying that bbread's life journey was pathetic and worthless, ie sad? I would beg to differ. No one's life is meaningless. I'm sure his/her struggles will, in the end, glorify Him.

I've heard it said by members of this board that most research scientists, specifically those in the fields related to evolutionary biology, are misguided. They study God's creation using man's logic, thereby eliminating all possibilities of ever reaching any meaningful conclusions (so the argument goes). My point of posting the question was to see what people's answers would be.

Are these scientists misguided? Should they stop what they're doing and study something else? Article

By your particular definition of "Christian" I guess. Lots of believers understand and accept evolution. There's only one definition of 'Christian'; a follower of Christ. I hardly think you are a good judge of such things. Actually I think a nonbeliever who is familiar with the teachings of Christ would probably be a better judge of whether someone is following Jesus's teachings than someone who is emotionally invested in their own interpretation, do you know what I mean? They could provide an objective perspective.

1 Corinthians 15:22 >>>>><<<<< If upbringing in terrible circumstances (Life) is the problem what is the answer? Is it the same answer for all people descended from folk of ill circumstance? Why? Why not? Who judges? While I appreciate the overwhelming brevity of your response (it must've been hard), I have to ask is there something in particular that you'd like to ask that won't derail the thread?