DjZed

Sorry i mean, Bul.board site! i changed it in the og post.

Hey, i am thinking of starting a forum dedicated to anyone who has had an abortion or has been affected by an abortion.

I AM NOT LOOKING TO HAVE A DISCUSSION ON ABORTION.. only to get your thoughts about a post abortion board.

Okay, you asked so........why do you want to start this and do you expect it to be heavily trafficked on a Christian forum? I guess I just can't see where you're going with this if there is to be no discussion of abortion issues.

Perhaps you misunderstand.

In this thread i do not want to know if you are pro either.

I want to start a forum online. not in this christian board. A seperate forum altogether.

one that would be dedicated to people effected directly somehow.

a place where they can go to speak with others in similar situations. to help get through consiquences of the abortion.

I wanted thoughts from people about that. Ideas. Encouragments, discouragments.

Hey, i am thinking of starting a bullitn board dedicated to anyone who has had an abortion or has been affected by an abortion.

I AM NOT LOOKING TO HAVE A DISCUSSION ON ABORTION.. only to get your thoughts about a post abortion forum.

I honestly don't know where to begin describing this, but ever since I gave birth to my son, God's love for us just amazes me so much. I hold my baby in my arms sometimes and wonder at the fact that God sent His only begotten son to suffer and die for us...I cry almost every time I think about it. And to think, His love is so deep for us that He calls us sons and daughters.

Yes. when we recieved our first child, a baby boy. looking down in the crib at him one night i just began to weep. It was an emotion that i had never felt to that degree before. I am not a very emotional man, i was very hardened in my youth and tears don't come easy. but that night i was full of emotion, and i ran to the same thoughts you did. emotions help us to balance our knowledge and knowledge helps us to balance our emotion. thats why my wife is my wife. Hearing your stories of love helps me to keep a perspective that says wow god IS at work, really at work, using all the body parts where they are needed. And it comes out in real life. to know god prepares these circumstances before us and prepares us for the circumstances. For his good pleasure and purpose, by the coucel and kind intention of his own will.

ANYONE ELSE

GOT A STORY OR TWO?

the best reading of the sovergn hand of god is our lives before us.

Keep going, more, more..

well, i could give a lot of stories.... but the one that is looming in my mind is the one that just happened... my unsaved daughter was getting married and even though nobody at my church even knows her, they all pitched in to GIVE her the perfect wedding... collectively, they decorated the church, they did the photography, the videography, the technical stuff with the sound, the piano, the vocals, the hair & makeup, the whole nine yards.

ok, let me go back though. now christmas is always a rough time of year for us, but a few years ago we had just finished buying the gifts for the girls. we didn't have anything left over, but mark came home from work and told me about a woman who worked in the office who he'd caught outside crying on her lunch break. he asked what was wrong, and even though she barely knew his name, she spilled her guts to him. she had four young sons, her husband had been injured and was out of work, and christmas wasn't coming to their house that year.

i told mark to pick up the phone and call her, and tell her we were going to take her out shopping for her children. she would give them christmas. i didn't know HOW we were going to do it, but we were. so while he called her, i went to the mailbox. when i came in, i opened up a christmas card and out dropped a check for $200. i held the check out to mark with tears in my eyes and said "tell her we're going tomorrow."

It brought tears to mine, and i only read it.

you lived it. Thanks

I wanted to read some of your stories of love towards people.

Give one story out of your life that demonstrated to you what love looks like.

either love toward you or your love towards another.

Thanks.

Ok everyone, as was said in the other posts. This is a round and round discussion for everyone here. I dont know how long you each have been discussing this over the years. It is a prominate division amongst believers and it will always come up at some point in every believers life. Some will gravitate more then others on the matters at hand. This is not wrong. Nor should anyone thwart people in the church from expressing where they are at. it shows a part of who they are.It is a division, it is not a seeming division, it simply is. each one of us intrprets these diff. it is not merely because of the individual passages we quote. its because of the system of theoligy we come from. One example of this is the church and isreal. how we view them is part of how we intrpt each scripture mentioned. jews, gentiles, believers, unbelievers, choice, predestination, spiritual isreal, he who is a jew is one inwardly. And we do that because of how we might see gods unveiling himself to man. Example a dispensationilst says that the key to properly intrpt the whole of the scripture is through the eyes of dispensations. a covenantalist says that that the key to properly intrp the whole of scripture is through the eyes of covenants. New covenentalists say that the key to properly intrp the whole of scripture through the eyes of the new covenant. Many call these presuppositions. That is 1st we have the idea and then we read it into scripture. Though none of us would say we read into the scripture as we sit right now. If we look back at our lives we will see better how our ideas were formed. we can also see where we use to hold to such and such but now we hold to this and that. and how we have reached this point. The views in the sytems of theoligy mentioned see things gravely different. To the point of sinful division within the church. Now couple any other systems with those. Examples, put arminianism with dispensationalism. put covenentalists with calvinism, put dispensationalism with pre-mill pre- rapt., put covenentalism with post millenialism. All of these different combinations will produce a differnt view than the other. Those are just examples, i'm not saying that each one is coupled, just the idea of coupling Different systems.

Does this mean we should stop discussing it? I dont think thats poss. We certainly don't want to say hey it's my way or the highway. Thats denominationalism. You agree with there systematic theoligy or you can't function in the body of christ properly. That is a hinderence of the use of ones gifts, and custom calls it church. Now because of my views on the church i know there is no hinderence for any believer to serve where is gifted. Denominations cant hinder that. Is fellowship about understanding doctrines. Part of it is and noone should have to feel that where they are at in thier theoligy is looked down on in a personal way. People might get the wrong idea with statements like. Beating a dead horse, have the shirt etc. I dont get the wrong idea, i'm not offended. i dont care what camp your in. I like the discussions. but some will be offended, and we dont want to offend someone because of negative comments made.

Now ultimatly i say all this because if we want to concern ouselves with doctrines in this setting, we are going to discuss this over and over. It will not dissapear. There are many doctrines i dont agree with other than this discussion. but i dont enter those because thats not where i'm at. If i were into escat. right now i would be in discusions about my views on esct. Not to say i dont study esc. i just dont participate in those discussions. i might someday. And would like the option if i do, Not have it shut down because its repetitive. And others have been there longer than me.

the only way to not divide over this is intentional on our individual part.

Otherwise you would say, move on down the road its better for you down there.

Which is like saying, we cant use your gifts here, or rather god cant use you here.

So please allow the conversations to go as the do. When someone is done, they will move on.

We all partake in these discussions together, and there are agendas as to why. Either we are looking into the subject because it is a new idea to us and we want to know more, or we are debating a subject, or we are trying to change someones mind about a subject. regardless, we are here. For the sake of those hearing a debate over something the opposing side should have a clear view of what it is the other believes. Some comments lead me to believe there is not a clearity of the others view. Both sides should be at least able to somewhat understand where the other comes from and present it in thier argument. as clearly a poss. Here in this discussion everybody is tryng to. it seems in all the discussions that noone has a clear understanding of what the other says. Doesnt meen you have to agree at all. it means you understand the perspective. Some have said that you are elected and some say you have a choice.

The points ao calvinism and arminian thoughts are contradictive to one another. They always will be. They were in the begining of the debate when calvin first responded to the five subjects he disagreed with on arminiuses teachings. And they will continue till the end.

Lets continue if thats what people want to do. In love.

Danny

in psalm 83 I believe it discusses Islam. In about 645bc from what I remembered in history (biblical) they had not 'left' God but added other Gods which perverted the original belief in God. To me that is the same of leaving God.

I do not agree with Moreys reformist statements, few I do but not all.

The descendants of Ishmail I believe is the reason we remain to have trouble in the middle east. I do believe it started with hagar and sarai and it is a perfect story of what happens when one takes matters into their own hands instead of letting Jesus do things in His perfect timing.

Sorry guys.

Not to be divisive, but the ishmealites were mentioned as having conspired against isreal because they hated god. I don't see islam mentioned. I did look in my concordance and found no refrence at all to the word "islam."

Some people are placed in your life for a season for a special purpose, and when that season is over, the person is no longer in your life on a consistent basis. And...everyone you meet has a purpose in your life or you in theirs. One teaches and the other learns. Eccl 3:1-8 on seasons.

Yes, what anexample said!

I would say no also.

as it was posted earlier it didnt come about until the 6th century.muslim tradition holds that god handed the quran to Muhammad. Muhammad was illiterate according to tradition. So he didnt just make this up.

a little tidbit.

a reason the quran is not reliable:

Now in the quran, surat 61:6 "And remember, jesus, The son of Mary,said: "o children of isreal i am a messanger of allah(sent) to you, confirming the Taurat (which came) before me, and giving glad tidings of a messenger to come after me, whose name shall be Ahmad. But when he came to them with clear signs they said," this is evident sorcery."

Now the footnotes in the quran are similar to the bibles footnotes.

This is what the quran says in the footnotes for "whos name shall be Ahmad."

"Ahmad" or "Muhammed" is almost a translation of the greek word periclytos. In the present gospel of john 14:16 15:26 and 16:7, the word "Comforter" in the englidh version is translated paracletos, which means a"advocate",or "one called to the help of another, a kind friend",rather than "comforter". Our doctors contend that paracletos is a corrupt reading for pariclytos, and that in their original saying of jesus there was a prophecy of our holy Prophet Ahmad by name. Even if we read paraclete, it would apply to the holy prophet.

There are several things interesting. The first is the statement "almost a translation". the others are found in jesus explination of who the paraclete, paracletos, or thier doctors version, pariclytos, pick one becuase it doesnt matter the word meant the Spirit of God. This is clear when reading the entire john texts. It is clearly the holy spirit, not almost a translation of ahmad.

It is possable, ishmeal could be the father of many arabic peoples, i believe muhamad could have been from that side of the Issac - Ishmeal deal. God did promise hagar that He would make a great nation of ishmeal. Muslims just happen to be prominate in that nationality because of muhammad and what i believe was muhammads understanding of the OT scriptures. And what, i believe, he tried to change for his own benefit . Now there are bassically 5 main sects of muslims, much like denominations, they divide over issues. The "extremests" Thwart many of the techings in the quran. jihad is a big one, my understanding of jihad as taught by muhammad in the quran is that if they are being persucuted they are to fight(jihad) and kill untill there is no more persucution of them. If the persucuters stop then just as god has mercy they should stop killing.

just info. Somewhat pertains.

"We love him, because he first loved us" 1 John 4:19

"But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us." Romans 5:8

"All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all." Isaiah 53:6

"Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new" 2 Corinthians 5:17

"As far as the east is from the west, so far hath he removed our transgressions from us." Psalm 103:12

"If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed. " John 8:36

it doesn't mean you chose redemption, you only receive redemption.

When You Look At The Huge Distance God Reaches Down To Offer Us His Salvation It Sure Does Seems Like We Do Nothing.....

"The LORD hath appeared of old unto me, saying, Yea, I have loved thee with an everlasting love: therefore with lovingkindness have I drawn thee." Jeremiah 31:3

Then I Read..... Choose You This Day Whom Ye Will Serve

"And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD." Joshua 24:15

And Again When I Read..... Whosoever Will Let Him Take The Water Of Life Freely

"I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star. And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely." Revelation 22:16-17

I'm Led To Believe That God Really Did Mean It When He Offered The Lord Jesus Up For ALL Men To See And To Believe In And To Have Everlasting Life!

"And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." John 3:14-16

If We Would Just Repent

"Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;" Acts 3:19

Just Confess And Believe

That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation." Romans 10:9-10

And By His Grace, God Even Offers The Very Faith Needed For Salvation

"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast." Ephesians 2:8-9

If We Would But Believe God.....

"They that sow in tears shall reap in joy. He that goeth forth and weepeth, bearing precious seed, shall doubtless come again with rejoicing, bringing his sheaves with him." Psalms 126:5-6

Be Blessed Beloved Of The KING

The LORD bless thee, and keep thee:

The LORD make his face shine upon thee, and be gracious unto thee:

The LORD lift up his countenance upon thee, and give thee peace.

And they shall put my name upon the children of Israel; and I will bless them. Numbers 6:24-27

Love, Your Brother Joe

I know where your coming from. i personally do not think these are contrary to election. The preaching of the gospel is heard and those who are his hear him.

I must 1st start off by appoligizing to patricia and all the readers here. But most of all to our god for misrepresting who he is. I made the comment " predestined for wrath" in two replies. I do not believe this. I do not hold to that thought and will not try to excuse it. Please do not let this hinder our discussions. Thank you guys for calling that one out.

Now in response to the comment onwingsasaneagle made "Predestination is so unfair to the people not predestined to goto heaven" What i am saying is that you,me and all who have ever believed were guilty. We deserved what the unbelievers will get. So the whole world is guilty and deserves to be seperated from god eternally. That is what we deserved too. So in all true fairness it is we who get what we dont deserve. unbelievers get what they deserve. That is justice, and it is mercy that is given to the believer. It is fair for them. its not an issue of fairness. Its about gods sovergn choice of people.

I say that because of my views of who is being talked about in romans 9 or the whole layout of romans for that matter. So if i believe that the vessels of wrath are unbelievers then i am forced to say that your choice is a work based on how i see the scripture. VRS 23 and 24 is what tends to point me to seeing the context as being about believers and unbelievers, as well as others scripture in romans. If that is the case then paul is making the point that it is about believers in contrast with unbelievers. Gods choice not mans. That is why i brought up merit.

Response to 1 thess. 4:1

You siad " we are able to look towards god to please Him" I dont disagree, but i see the key in the scripture as well as your statement as being "brethren" and "We" , Belivers.

Romans 8:7,8

The mind set on the flesh is hostile toward god; it does not subject itself to the law of god and is not able to do so. Those in the flesh cannot please god.(unbelievers)

However you are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit dwells in you.( believers).(believers are not in the flesh but in the Spirit if the Spirit is actually in them, if the Spirit is not in them they cannot please god.)

So in your view, is your choice pleasing to god?

God wants All to be saved 1st tim 2:4 and it is his will that none should parish 2nd pet 3:9

Those that perish are not saved and therefore perish because they deny Jesus Christ,not because God willed them to hell.

i want to reply to this but don't have time.

I will be back hopefully friday to continue with you all!

Thanks, i enjoy this greatly.

WHAT Djzed said is exactly what im saying.........i didnt choose to believe in jesus.......i heard sermon after sermon and didnt believe....then all of a sudden i felt his spirit come over me...and it was gods spirit in me that confessed jesus as my lord and savior not my personal choice.....i think god always sets out a choice...but he also says no one seeks after him...not one so...in his mercy he sends his spirit to convict and save the ones that were predestined for glorification... and in the end the ones that didnt follow god get to see they had a choice but out of there wickedness they "chose" not to belive...but if you think about it they just didnt recieve the gift of faith...

this is a guess based on my interpretation of scripture............but i also see scriptures that see to go the other way.....like people that get saved then fall away....they couldnt of been predestined to get the holy spirit just to greive it right?.....so this leaves me with a bit of confusion lol...

Predestination is so unfair to the people who are not predestined to go to heaven. If I have no control over my belief and have already been predestined to go to heaven, then we do those who are not controlled with belief and are not predestined? Do they not have a choice that they are going to hell?

The Spirit does not do this for people. God does not start working in our lives until after we have been born again. Not before. It is our hearing of the "Word" that causes us to believe -

Romans 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

God is no respecter of persons.

Acts 10:34 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:

Romans 2:11 For there is no respect of persons with God.

Ephesians 6:9 And, ye masters, do the same things unto them, forbearing threatening: knowing that your Master also is in heaven; neither is there respect of persons with him.

Predestination and not having control over my belief is "respecting persons".

You do choose to believe in Jesus or this scripture would be unfair

Hebrews 3:12 Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.

And Jesus would not have, "whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life". The "whosoever" is leaving the salvation of Jesus left open for the whole world and that is why he died for the whole world.

Its not a matter of fairness. we all deserve hell. thats true fairness. It is the mercy and forgiveness of god given to us freely by god that you say is unfair! Does your choice make it fair or unfair?

How is that god being a respector of persons? Because hes sovergn and chose us. he did not choose me on any merit at all. Thats what romans mainly addresses. salvation not based on works of the law. or any work,deed, word spoken or prayer. You were not even able to look towards god. You could never please him. But his sheep hear his voice and they know him. You recognized your redemtion. it doesnt meen you chose redemtion, you only recieved redemtion.

reply is to onwingsofaneagle

Those prepared for destruction were Gentile but through the sacrifice of Jesus we are now able to be saved and become saints just as the jews were able to in the O.T.

vrs 4 belongs to isrealites

vrs 5 the fathers( included abram the gentile)

the christ according to the flesh ( isreal )

vrs 6 the word of god did not fail, -----the word did not fail, isrealites who had no faith did.(the unbeliever)

not all isreal (physical isreal) is isreal ( beliveing isreal)

vs 7 they are not children of god (believers)because they are abrahams seed ( physical isreal)

vs 8 not the children of the flesh( physical isreal) but the children of the promise are regarded as descendents( believers)

vs 9 a word of promise, sarah shall have a son - which is in refrence to the descendents in vs 8

vs 10 11 12 13 / not only that but rebekah had twins, they hadnt done anything good or bad and god says jacob i loved, esau i hated. but this was in order that gods choice might stand, not because of works, but because of HIM whou calls.

(He chose jacob who was a gentile until he was renamed,the 1st of physical and believing isreal. esau was a gentile)

vs 14 , so, is there any injustice with god,no.

vs 15 god has mercy and compasion on whom he choses (physical isreal & gentile)

vs 16 doesnt depend on man who wills or runs, depends on god who has mercy.(gentile & physical isreal)

vs 17 pharoh was raised up that gods name would be proclaimed throught whole earth(gentile egypt, Physical isreal)

vs 18 god has mercy(believing gentiles and believing isreal) and hardens whom he desires.(Gentiles and physical isrea)

vs.19 if god does this why does he find fault in us

vs 20 who are you to dispute god the thing molded doesnt say why did you make me this way.

vs 21 the potter has right over the clay to make from the same lump one for honor(believers) one for dishonor (unbelievers).

vs 22 what if god, although willing to demonstrate his wrath,had patience with vessels of wrath (unbelievers)

vs 23 God endured so that he might make known the riches of his glory upon vessels of mery, which he prepared beforehand for glory (all believers), whom he called , not from the jews only, but from the gentiles also.

i'll stop there. Paul is trying to get them to understand throughtout romans several things. I think the point here is that believers are believers because god makes them that way.its not based on the physical anything,not works, not works of the law,not on geneoligy, but on god. It is about a sovergn god. I do not get that vessels of distruction are the gentiles out of this passage. paul does focus quite a bit here on the jew/gentile relationships so i can see reading into the text.

Hello DjZed, welcome to the conversation, and welcome to Worthy.

My God bless you for going where other's dare not, to reach the lost for Him. You have to be careful, but if you can handle it and you feel called to go, then go you must.

Thank you. the thing is i don't really go anywhere. The circumstances are ALWAYS laid out before me. I just follow them to see where they might lead. some have lead to freindships,intimate, and some have not. belivers and unbelievers alike. some who were unbelievers we have continued relationships with have sinse become believers. This was not my doing, but gods, he saved them,and not solely through the use of us.

I had to shift from i and me to we and us. my wife and children are a huge part in these freindships.

I think you have taken the idea of eating or drinking with unbelievers to an extreme. Not only is there no scripture telling us to befriend the unsaved...but there is certainly no scriptures telling us that we should put ourselves into illegal situations to do so.

In my opinion, you should be uncomfortable around blantant sin, and illegal activity.

Friends is biblical. I don't see that it is biblical to purposly not be friends with sinners.

Sin is sin, blatent or in your heart. Uncomfortable? if your conscience is seered, then stay away. Which is why i said in an earlier post, RUN THE OTHER WAY!For my concience says, Whatever god lays before me i will pursue. In this process i have become "friends" with many people, believers and unbelievers. I am not afraid to share intimate things with anyone. Should i use this only with my family. NO! i use my life with all people that i might win some. Does this mean i have christian fellowship with all, of course not, how can you have true fellowship with an unbeliever? As its been said, light & darkness have no fellowship.

I came from that realm also. I have sold drugs in two countries, been a drunk for 30 years while I was selling and doing drugs. I have done things that most people think about but don't have the guts or stupidity to do

Literally hanging out with abusers of drugs while they are abusing of drugs of all kinds and going to their parties does nothing for the good of them or you. Nor does it glorify Christ in their eyes because they are to whacked out to know anything else. Going to a party to preach Jesus to a bunch high people is the same thing as casting your pearls out to the swine. Knowing them and talking to them when they are sober gives them a chance to hear the gospel through clear ears instead of clogged ears

The rules or regulations that God has set down for us is to protect us from falling prey to temptation or going back to the old man.

If you see it does no good for you, fine. To say it does no good for them is to mock the sovergnty of god! Christ is glorified, you once again speak of someonelses eyes. I dont see how you can say if christ is glorified in thier eyes. Doesnt matter. Christ is glorified in me. I have a life statement so to speak. "the gospel to the unbeliever and the scripture to the believer."So with my unbeliveing "friends" I preach the gospel, to my beleiving friends i exhort from the scripture. My whole life. The only gift i know to give. Parumpumpumpum. I don't need rules and regulations for god to protect me. God will protect me and nothing will pluck me from his hand!

What is accidently infringing a couple of traffic regulations. in a moment of lack of concentration have in common with hanging out with carnal minded people as friends. Sure you are a new creation, as a result of being convicted of sin. You have been lifted out of the deep dark pit. It doesn't mean you have to return to the pit and mix with those still there..

People keep insisting that Jesus was friends with sinners and wine drinkers. The word says Mat, 9"10...And it came to pass as Jesus sat at meat, many publicans and sinners came and sat down with Him and his disciples. whis is different than Him going to sit with them.

He was talking to man to man and and told the onlookers He came, not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance. He never said they were His friends.......the scribes and pharasees did. People keep writing stuff into the bible that isn't there.

We all meet someone from the "bad old days" in our walk in life, and I still stop and talk with them and ask after their health and all the usual small talk, but they are no longer my friends, we choose to walk in different directions. I don't have to shoot pool or play cards in the clubs or pubs with them,......I've done with that lifestyle.

If people want to have unsaved friends coming ang going to their homes, that's okay by me, just don't keep trying to tell me it's biblical to do so, because the bible makes it crystal clear not to associate with them.

The point of the traffic violations was simple to point out that it against the law. ie. illegal. It's interesting how you use the words "accidently", and "Moment of lack of consintration" As if that makes it less illegal. Once again, i said this in response to the 1st post. Trying to encourage her that it was alright to have friends that were unbelivers.Giving a much more extreme situation as an example. some ran with it. Was not the prostitute considered a friend. or was christ only a friend after she belived. Thats only one of many bible stories we could relate to friendships believer/unbeliever situations. You don't see a clear statment word wise from jesus about his being god, but his actions demonstrated it and thus they sought to kill him because of blashemy

Whats the matter with pool,cards,clubs and pubs.is it because sinners are there?

where is this clearity you speak of in the scripture not to associate with them?

Keep the light on. I'll pray god send them!

Shalom DJZed,

Actually, Paul states not to eat with a CHRISTIAN who is living in unrepentant sin. Not non-Believers.

1 Corinthians 5:11

11But now I am writing to you not to associate with anyone who bears the name of brother if he is guilty of sexual immorality or greed, or is an idolater, reviler, drunkard, or swindler

Mat 28:4 And for fear of him the keepers did shake, and became as dead men.

Rev 1:17 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:

There are several other verses I just cannot find them right now.

Those are not proof text for being slain in the spirit. explain your interp of these. If you had an idea about being slain in the spirit and then read these i suppose you could believe it, however im not big on reading into the text.

You are correct vicki. it is for another board. My excellent response was to the observance of denominations, The real question asks for scriptual proof of being slain in the spirit. Well. Anyone?

thanks for putting the board back into perspective.

I want to know, how do you witness, what methods do you use?

I also would like know how successful it is.

And I want to know what it was that someone did or showed you that brought you to a Saving knowledge of the LORD.

I use the methods of circumstance. God will always provide the opportunities for us to spread the gospel. It's not really a work you can master. You may have all knowledge, know every tactic and argument of all false teachings and other worldly arguments. You will never get someone to believe by any given method. I learned to practice something i learned with a business partner. The gospel to the unbeliever and the scripture to the believer. It didnt matter what i said there was always an argument against god from him. After months of spending all day with him i realized that the most benificial thing i could preach was that he was just like all the people he hated. Pointing to him his sinfulness. then the death and ressurection of christ for salvation and hope. If a man does not see this, he will not recieve christ. So all that talking and trying to persuade came to a conclusion of always preaching the forgiveness of sin. This particular man is still against god. but sometimes men recieve easily. I believe we partake in the preaching of the gospel as privlage. god does not need us, he uses us. In the end it is the spririt of god who opens a man to see his wretchedness and recieve christ. This is gods work, to save men.

No study of the Bible is complete without at least some working knowledge of the covenants that are prevalent throughout Scripture. As I stated in the introduction, the covenants occur concurrently alongside what are known as

It seems, bigblue, that your protestations to the phenomenon known as being "slain in the spirit" has touched quite a nerve in this thread. As a recovering Southern Baptist who has received the baptism of the Holy Spirit with the evidence of speaking in tongues, I can empathize with your position and fully understand just why it is not scriptural. I personally have been on both sides of this coin and it was none other than my Heavenly Father who showed me the truth of His word in a rather dramatic fashion. I have listened to the teachings of my denomination, accepting them at face value because I was a newly minted Born Again believer and surely these learned men knew much more about God's Word than I knew. As my leaders and teachers in the things of God, surely they would teach me the truth of Scripture and for the most part, they did.

However, as I studied the role of denominations within the Body of Christ, I became aware that denominations arose in opposition to a doctrine that was being taught which a certain group of people within that denomination opposed as a false teaching. An excellent example of this is the Lutheran denomination which sprang into existence through the teachings of a Roman Catholic monk named Martin Luther. It was never Luther's intention to start a new denomination, he was only interested in reforming some of the false doctrine he had spotted in the Catholic faith. However, when the Catholic Church rejected Martin Luther's teachings as heresy, the followers of Martin Luther broke from the Catholic Church and the Lutheran Denomination was formed, against the expressed wishes of Martin Luther. This denomination arose because some people disagreed with the stance an established denomination had taken on a biblical issue, feeling that their take on the subject was really God's truth. In light of this, no denomination has a corner on what God's really saying in His Word and this then leads to the position that no denomination will ever fully mature in the Lord because they cannot be taught the deeper things of God which contradicts with their established doctrine.

Whenever a denomination or an individual ceases to to be able to be taught the deeper things of God simply because such a teaching goes against their own denomination's take on the subject, they have reached the maximum level of their spiritual maturation. Since we are not omniscient beings, we can never know the full depth of God's mysteries on our own. We need to be taught "line upon line, precept upon precept" as Isaiah taught in the 28th chapter of his book, verse 10. The Person who does this is the Holy Spirit, yet many a Christian will not accept the deeper teachings of the Spirit, especially when such teachings are contrary to their denominational teachings. Yet the denominational teachings are not infallible because the denomination, being formed by men, cannot be an omnicient being in its own right. When Satan has placed false doctrine in a denomination (and he has done it in every denomination) and these false doctrines have been accepted as the very truth of God by that denomination, it takes the power of the Holy Spirit to blast that denomination out of its error. This has such an adverse effect on the people within that denomination who have accepted the false doctrine introduced by Satan as the very truth of God, that the denomination dare not change course. Therefore, the arguments defending the error within a denimination are mounted by the leaders and teachers within that denomination to prove that their view is the only true view on that particular subject. Discussions become heated, Scripture becomes twisted, the false doctrines become more firmly embedded within the fabric of the denomination as they are firmly believed to be not a false doctrine, but the true doctrine from the Word of God. And they will prove their stance by Scripture, often quoting Scripture totally out of context in order to prove a preconcieved point of view is true, not false. Thus we have the dust-up that is evidenced in this thread.

For example, bigblue offered up the opinion that the last verse in 1 Corinthians 14 was talking about order in the worship service, yet this is not the context of that verse. 1 Corinthians 14 is all about the proper use of the gifts of the Spirit and is essentially a continuation of 1 Corinthians 12. The love chapter, 1 Corinthians 13 is essentially a parenthetical chapter that inserts the subject of God's love in the middle of a discussion on the gifts of the Spirit to the Body of Christ and their proper usage. It is necessary because the only way you can properly utilize the gifts of the Spirit is with the love of God, the Agape kind of love. However, you can put parenthesis around the entire 13th chapter of 1 Corinthians, temporarly move it to one side and then read Chapter 12 and continue with Chapter 14. The subject matter continues without a hitch, winding up with Paul admonishing the Corinthians that the use of the gifts of the Spirit should be done decently and in order. Nowhere in the context of 1 Corinthians 12 or 14 is the worship service discussed, only the gifts of the Holy Spirit, what they are and how they should be utilized within corporate worship. Therefore the utilization of the gifts of the Holy Spirit is the main thrust of 1 Corinthians 14, not the form of corporate worship. That is only incidental to the utilization of the gifts, hence 1 Corinthians 14:39-40 is speaking of the utilization of the gifts of the Holy Spirit, not laying down guidelines for corporate worship. In this context, Sherman is right and bigblue is wrong in the opinions they have separately expressed. Sorry, bigblue that your denominational toes have been stomped on, but that is the fate of those who will not let the Holy Spirit teach them the deeper things of God because such things are counter to what their denomination teaches on that subject.

excellent!!

Listen, I think this is getting off. Did i say to place yourselves purposefully into situations if i did that is not what i meant.. God lays out our lives before us. I dont set out to got parties, and hang out with so called bad people. This is what happens when your neighbor is not friendly, gangsta guns and all with his prison parole king-flo. It is where i was at that moment. I had no control. I have 100 stories of living in that house. All from different renters in the same house next door. But it taught me many things about the lost. Just because i as a beliver have not such a big problem with it. Sis is Sin. Thanks be to christ we, the belivers, are freed. Expierience does not come without error. Should i feel guilty because i know god breaks down all barries. i've started many long relationships with people in that house next door. two which have become believers. Nomatter the depths of thier wickedness the gospel must be preached. So please i dont mean to say put yourselves in the midst of wickedness, i was only giving an extreme in contrast with the o.g. message. She was worried about hanging out with her unbelieving friends. I exhorted her with an extreme that she might see that it was alright. I thought i was doing it within the context of my understanding of the character of god in his sovernty. And the redemtion of men. I dont think i told her to not hang out with believers.

okay so are we dispensible or not? Let us say Noah was called and instructed...and Noah replied NO! Would Jesus find someone else?

I an getting a better understanding of what is being said..

in romans 8-30 i am not sure I am understanding all of the explanation.

If what I read I believe what is being said is that one is discussing Jesus as being predestined and His work.. but I find some counfusion in the plurality of the pronouns being used. Jeus's work is done and even He I am sure was given a choice as well as he also, knowing what had to be done asked His Father if there be any other way..to pass this cup.

All have a function in the kingdom of God whether they acknowledge it or not. Ceaser, judas, pharoah. Jesus I KNOW had a hand on me since a child , but was not aware until I met up with Him. What if I never came to know Him then I was not predestined.?

Cant say if he would have chosen someoneelse. if he did it would mean the same for the redemption of man. Yes christ did lay down his own life. My opinion is that yes even the wicked are chosen fo their role. And yes you would have been predestined, but for wrath not salvation.

God has not chosen any one for wrath,we bring wrath upon ourselves,by not accepting the free gift of salvation offered to ALL who will receive it.

Read romans Vessels i belive. god has predestined them for wrath. That is what they were made for. But has predestined the elect for restoration to himself. Predestined us for glory!

God has shown his mercy to those fitted for destruction(the Gentiles)so that they too may receive Christ and escape God's wrath.

The only ones that will endure the wrath of God are those that choose to reject the salvation offered to us ALL.

So these are just two camps of believers in this passage? the ones prepared for destruction are the saved gentiles? Do my questions make sense?