Scudbuddy

Neb says, "Why did Peter and John have to travel so far to lay hands on them if the laying on of hands was not nessesary? Let me know what ya think." Scudbuddy replies, I have to go to work, so I can only give the simple answer to this question. Frequent flyer miles.

Now you have ruined my reputation. How am I going to intimidate those posters who come on here with the fear of "The Scudbuddy" if you are going to say such nice things. I will accept your apology if you will say "Neb was the nice guy, and Scudbuddy is just having a bad day."

Neb, Whatever you have done, you did not deserve that last post. We may disagree over these things, but you have been a true gentleman in your disagreeing. I am compiling my argument (or my anwser for Glorybees sake) as I can. I do hope you are not finished, but this has gone on for along time. It does sound like you are a student, and are busy in your finals. So if you want to continue, I will be glad to. Just post according to your time. David Scudder. P.S. Though I strongly disagree with your posistions, you are a worthy adversary in the debate process.

Neb, So far in getting to know you, You have done away with the gifts, (not unusual) done away with demon possession, and now you are the first to claim that the apostles were the only ones in the upper room. You are digging yourself deeper and deeper into this hole of yours. You are going against something that is taught in every commentary I have ever read. I guess we should throw those commentaries away because you say so. The 120 just disapeared with the word "men". Problem is, women were rarely acknowledged. Problem is getting rid of the women doesn't get rid of the other men. Problem is living by your rule; where does it say that only the apostles were there? That rule really can bite you on your behind when you use it. Let's take a look at the word "men" in Jewish culture. How many people were said to be at the feeding of the 5,000? How about the 4,000? Look the verses up. It only refers to the men. So in fact there was probaly 20,000 to 25,000 counting the women and children. Women were less than dogs. Peter was talking to a culture that could care less what was happening to the women. Again, I have seen and commented a dozen times on your verses. You either don't read my comments, or you don't care. So why don't you find some other verses for me to comment on so that you can care less about those too. I am tired of the same ping-pong match here. You refuse to even acknowledge any argument. The best you can do is go outside of even the Cessationist theology to prove your point. Btw, find me a commentary that says that only 12 men were there on Pentecost. I would like to read that one. Remember I own alot of commentaries. Many of them are Cessationist commentaries. Your the first to say the bit about demons and the 120. Scholars who have degrees coming out of their ears coming from Universities way out of both our leagues would be lost at your conclusions. So I would like to read a scholar that supports your ideas. And "dunamis" which is the greek for "miraculous powers" is used several times in the book of Revelation to describe the church. 1:16, 3:8, 11:6, 12:10 "Exousia" is also used several times. That is the word to descibe Jesus after doing many mighty miracles in Matthew 9. It describes "Miraculous Authority" on Him. In Revelation it is used also to describe the authority on the church and on the two witnesses. Of course this is after the apostles rise from the dead and lay hands on them.

No! I am giving you 5 minutes to answer my questions, or you will be darned to eternal questioning.

Neb goes even farther than that. He actually believes that demons possessing people have ceased too. He has brought Cessationism to its logical conclusion. It is just unbelievable. And he is alone in this forum in believeing demons power to possess is gone. The weird thing is he is from a Third World country where the supernatural is much more normal.

I was just curious because the word in Greek is not Dunamis. I had a look and it is endunamoo. Made up of Two words. , en and dunamoo. En means a fixed position in time place or state, and (by implication) instrumentality (medially or constructively). Dunamoo means to enable:--strengthen. This word comes from dunamis which means a specially, miraculous power. You did some good research but it was just a little mixed up. The definition of "miraculous power" is twice removed from the word endunamoo. This word just means (increase in) strength, be (make) strong. Dunamis is not the word used. Well if I said that then I was very wrong. Can you remember where I posted that? Well that

You are now using the word to mean both miraculous powers and strength. Grammatically this does not work.. It either means one or the other. Where did I say that? I said that the apostles passed on the HS. Where have you drawn that from. It simply says: Yet Saul grew more and more powerful and baffled the Jews living in Damascus by proving that Jesus is the Christ. There is no previous context of gifts in this vs therefore your definition of the word

Well what does he know. Just because he is in the middle of the situation doesn't mean a thing. Why Dan Rather is seeing the situation from the view of one of CBS' satellites, and he can count all the terroist as they kill and all the innocent civilians as they die. He has pictures of entire regiments of US soldiers with their hands up in surrender. He got them from some guy who works for George Soros, and he is "putting" the memos he recieved together as we speak. He is just looking for an old typewriter. He is having a "Superscript" problem. Anybody know where he can get one. (No one has told them that they now use modern computers in the military. He will figure it out at his retirement dinner.)

Yes, the gifts that the people receive are chosen by th HS by they are passed on by the Apostles. If what I say is true does that make what I am saying correct then? maturity." He was learning how to trust God in everything more and more. So are you saying that he grew in strength with regards to maturity? That's what I said. Have a look: (italics added) Now you are taking me out of context. His maturity built up his faith. He had faith for greater works and miracles. Your posistion is that their is no faith involved in what the Holy Spirit does, that the HS is doing it at the max right at the first and that ignores Jesus' statement about the "Mustard Seed" and how much it can affect the miraculous. Pauls maturity produced greater faith for greater miracles. The "Strengthened" is about being endowed with miraculous powers.

Yod, the Navy and times were changing drastically at that time, and it was believed that the aircraft carriers and their support ships were the thing of the future and the older battle ships and such were no match for the mobile air on the sea, so they were pretty much disposable and would not be effective in defense of the oceans as they were in the past. So he had the aircraft carriers and their support ships moved safely out to sea and the older no longer viable ships put into harbor. They also pretty much put the land based aircraft together out on the ramps to be easily destroyed by the Japanese air strikes. we only lost the part of our navy that would not have been effective against the air power in the first place. Yeah... right. That is why they spent, who-knows-how-much on deep-sea welders to put all those useless ships back together If they were disposable then why re-assemble them? Oh wait... these are conspiracies... they don't HAVE to make sense... That's what I said. Ignore the part that contradicts your theory. We needed those ships badly. Yes, aircraft carriers were the dominant factor in WWII, but no one knew that at the time. They were still the ugly "stepchild" to the battleship. And battleships were what pulverized islands and other ships. That was standard theory and useage. FDR and the military would have been out of their mind to orchestrate such happenings. We almost lost the war because of it.

Neb doesn't care less how much proof we have. How many witnessess. Doesn't matter. What matters is does it fit within his paradigm of how things are supposed to be. And he can't state that only the bible can offer proof, because when it does, he presumes the proof out of it, making it impotent. Every verse that shows the gifts are for today he mocks or messes with. "These signs shall follow those who believe." He brings up snakes and poisons. "Strenthened" he corrupts with the idea that it had to mean he became a better preacher. "Filled with the Holy Spirit" he changes to baptism with water and just getting the Holy Ghost without the evidence of such. He has more magic tricks up his sleeve to get rid of the gifts than any Cessationist I know. And he has gotten rid of demon possession too. They went with the passing of the gifts. Even his Cessationist allies are in amazement about that. He did that with logic. No verse out there even remotely suggest it. Enter into this debate, and you enter the land of OZ.

Neb says, "I reject you experiences because I have no way of verifying them. Just as you reject my experiences because you have no way of verifying what I say." ________________________________________________________________________________ Never once have I rejected that your experiences happened. In fact I have made it a point of saying I believe they happened. I disagree with what your friend did. He shouldn't have done it. But it happened and I believe everything you have told me. But "Love believes all things" actually meant that to me. I hadn't heard the "Crossed T" version yet. Second, as I had said in previous post, the word "strength" means in the greek "endowed with miraculous power." His "strength" increased. So yes, it is referred to. And the fact that I have already showed the biblical verse and word showing so in the last post is my answer to your ignoring it. You have done that several times before. Usually I have to show the verse twice or more before it is looked at from my point of view and dealt with. ________________________________________________________________________________ Scudbuddy said, Guess what later before he ever met the apostles the WORD says about Paul. It describes "Strength" increasing on him. Guess what that word is a derivative of. "Dunamis". Guess what Dunamis means. "Miraculous Power." And he hadn't even met an apostle yet. Neb replied, There is two problems with your theory. First, the word also means to become stronger or to make strong. Saul was becoming stronger in his ability to speak about Christ. Secondly, the HS does not get stronger in a person. He already is strong. Just like you would not say the HS power gets weaker in a person, you cannot say the HS POWER gets stronger. This insinuates that the HS was weak in the first place. ________________________________________________________________________________ "Endowed with miraculous powers." That is what the word means. And the verse says he was getting stronger. So the verse contradicts the idea that Saul/Paul wasn't getting stronger in the gifts. It is called "maturity." He was learning how to trust God in everything more and more. Thank God he never ran into a Cessationist that got rid of the gifts and demon possession. I can just see it now. "Jesus I know, Paul I was supposed to know, ......." You presume way too much.