johnP

shiloh357. Your 'replacement theology' I've looked it up and taken the first result from Google; http://www.bridgesforpeace.com/publication...Article-18.html Does that sum it up? I'll go through it later. Well extension seems to be at a loose end. Who owns this word? Did I say based on the parents or did I say chosen in God? I might have done I can't remember. Those that don't make it are accountable that's for sure. Rom 9:6 It is not as though God's word had failed. For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel. 7 Nor because they are his descendants are they all Abraham's children. On the contrary, "It is through Isaac that your offspring will be reckoned." 8 In other words, it is not the natural children who are God's children, but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham's offspring. 9 For this was how the promise was stated: "At the appointed time I will return, and Sarah will have a son." The Church is the true Israel. I haven't the time at the moment to go through the rest of your post. I'll try and catch up tomorrow. There is a gulf between us and we won't bridge it here. We should try to find some common ground. johnp.

Bob. AC 4:12 Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved." Your parents were chosen by God and so were the children. If He uses a Christian to have a child that child was chosen by God before the creation as we were. Our responsibilty is to bring them up in the Lord. Eli did not. If they go off the rails then they will return. Pro 22:6 Train a child in the way he should go, and when he is old he will not turn from it. Just make sure they are trained and they have cracked it. God does the work and we get the blessing. You have an obligation Bob. He died for us and lives for us. He is inside me and shows me what He did for me. The older I get the more sin I see the more sin I see the more I love Him for loving me and giving Himself for me. What has love to do with responsibilties, they fetch judgement but love overcomes. johnp.

KMB. This is the same charge made against Calvinism. I agree with it. I believe a man is saved by grace and not by works. I Really really believe that. I believe the Holy Spirit makes His dwelling place in the heart of His people and He gives His people exactly what they need to get home. How He does that is up to Him to decide not us. and whoever lives and believes in me will never die. Do you believe this?" John 11:26. The parents can't die. Do you believe this? I am aware of the danger of speaking falsely. I believe I should speak the whole counsel of God as I know it and this is as you believe. One of us is wrong. Your view of love might need modifying. My love loves me and died for me as He did for all His people. Nothing can seperate His children from Him. Do you think baptism and circumcision have the same meaning? johnp.

shiloh357. Come off it! Who's 'extension' is that then? That's a heavy weight piece of scripture! Where is that then? Eze 37:25 They will live in the land I gave to my servant Jacob, the land where your fathers lived. They and their children and their children's children will live there forever, and David my servant will be their prince forever. 26 I will make a covenant of peace with them; it will be an everlasting covenant. I will establish them and increase their numbers, and I will put my sanctuary among them forever. 27 My dwelling place will be with them; I will be their God, and they will be my people. 28 Then the nations will know that I the LORD make Israel holy, when my sanctuary is among them forever.' " That's us that is. Spiritual Israel. johnp.

Hello KMB. What's death got to do with life? I say that a man is blessed by his having his children included in his blessings you come back with death? What's so bad in what I said? But then what of Eli's sons? Did this throw you off. That I said that it was not absolute? We the parents are held accountable for the safety of our children. People need to hear that. I don't know why you say that. I was asking about what covenant is it that we must walk in and obey. The answer came back, "EVERY man and woman, boy and girl must be obedient to the gospel." What? Do you think baptism and circumcision have the same meaning? johnp.

shiloh357. Is that why I said, "Charles Spurgeon is a great preacher...?" Thanks for the lecture I know that. But you believe everything Spurgeon ever said? No we won't. Jesus took my penalty. Who makes a charge against the children of God? Rom 8:33. Yes we are. For I told him that I would judge his family forever because of the sin he knew about; his sons made themselves contemptible, and he failed to restrain them. 1 Sam 3:13. A rejected progeny in the House of the Lord. Why else would it shock Israel so much? I stand before God at all times brother. I do not need to wait to hear what He has to say to me. There is no question, Jesus Christ died for my sins. It's good news not fearful. That is the heart of the gospel. He died for my sins. There is no coming judgement for the children of God. Would you like to rephrase that. It looks like you are saying kids go to Hell. You say, "Every...boy and girl must be obedient..." Or what? If you say children not yet reaching maturity will be saved then I win because you are making an exception. There are people in Heaven who did not make a choice. If you say that children go to Hell same as the grown ups then you lose. I wait on my 'Or what'. Have you said yet if you think baptism is a replacement for circumcision? johnp.

shiloh357. Replacement theology is new to me. Never heard of it and don't know what it means. We are going off topic. Catch you another time for this stuff 'a'? Charles Spurgeon is a great preacher but he is not scripture. You have left scripture! I asked in the last post what do we have to be obedient to? The law or what? johnp.

shiloh357. Now I thought the law had been dropped for us. There are rules that applied to the nation that do not apply to us but all the promises do belong to us. So you believe Israel is not the type for the Church? I know I am going to have to do better at defending infant baptism. I'll get round to that when I believe in it. But I do have a case. What's the covenant to be kept? The law is it? Have the translators erred here with their commas? johnp.

Tess. Eli was also saved and lost his kids. So I did cover this point in a way. He did not restrain them so we take that responsibility as parents. To bring them up right. I did say that there was a downside. It is a general thing not absolute. johnp.

shiloh357. What's the Millenium? If it is a thousand year rule I do not believe it. Regardless of that the scriptures were written for the Church. The passages are talking about the Church. Israel was just a type. We are the reality. PS 103:17 But from everlasting to everlasting the LORD's love is with those who fear him, and his righteousness with their children's children-- PS 103:18 with those who keep his covenant and remember to obey his precepts. You misuse the English. The bit in the commas is an aside. Verse 18 is a continuation from verse 17 before the comma. johnp.

Jake. What happens if they are dumb? Are you going to start to make exceptions? johnp.

shiloh357. None. Why should I give you circumcision verses? Why do they not apply? Called. It has nothing to do with baptism. johnp.

shiloh357. PS 103:17 But from everlasting to everlasting the LORD's love is with those who fear him, and his righteousness with their children's children-- ZEC 10:9 Though I scatter them among the peoples, yet in distant lands they will remember me. They and their children will survive, and they will return. EZE 37:24 " `My servant David will be king over them, and they will all have one shepherd. They will follow my laws and be careful to keep my decrees. 25 They will live in the land I gave to my servant Jacob, the land where your fathers lived. They and their children and their children's children will live there forever, and David my servant will be their prince forever. 26 I will make a covenant of peace with them; it will be an everlasting covenant. I will establish them and increase their numbers, and I will put my sanctuary among them forever. 27 My dwelling place will be with them; I will be their God, and they will be my people. 28 Then the nations will know that I the LORD make Israel holy, when my sanctuary is among them forever.' " johnp.

Jake. For a post there we were in agreement. Along with their kids. Right? johnp.

Tess. What, something for nothing? shiloh357. What of the promises in the OT? johnp.

Hello Jake. A wrong linking together of baptism and circumcision caused this. If one believes baptism and circumcision are linked then it is safe to assume one should baptise infants. That would be consistent. Wrong but consistent. johnp.

shiloh357. Ok, but that still leaves the OT passages. johnp.

Called. God is Sovereign. johnp.

Tess. I am confused. Which bit is the problem? Does this help. When we go and preach to others we should include this statement in our witness. If any accept the sacrifice of Christ they can rest assured that their children are included. johnp.

Bob. I don't understand what you mean. So I will say this. Peter is talking to the people. He says repent and be baptised. If you do you will bring your children and their children into the Kingdom. If this scripture is overthrown the problem persists with the OT verses. If you think I mean that some get into Heaven without repentance I would not like to say this is so or not. I could give it a guess. He will cause these children to do what they need to to gain the promise made to their parents. If He does not then the promise fails. johnp.

Hello Called. What's the command? Repent and be baptised. What's the promise? The promise of salvation for you and for your children. Go against the grain? The promise is for you and your children... It just supports the OT quotes. From the reaction I would venture to say that you have not misunderstood. johnp.

Tess. Why not? As Christian parents we teach our children. That is discipling is it not? There are more people in the world than our kids. What you think? johnp.

Called. Just finished it. More or less yes. 'Automatically included' is not really right. Each and every person saved is elected by God and known to Him in a special way. I can think of scenarios where this falls down and one scriptural reference where the children of a Christian are damned but in the general scheme of things our kids are with us forever. Beat them they will not die. Spare the rod and spoil the child is not a tyrant God telling us to thrash the brats but a command to restrain them. To bring them up like most of us do anyway. Any caring parent will want the best for them and most get it right. The result may not look good but if you bring them up to the best of your ability then they are safe. Noah was a righteous man, blameless among the people of his time, and he walked with God. Noah had three sons: Shem, Ham and Japheth. Gen 6:9. The promise is right there from the beginning for us to know that within certain very definable circumstances, that your children are safe. He wants you to know that. PS 103:17 But from everlasting to everlasting the LORD's love is with those who fear him, and his righteousness with their children's children-- ZEC 10:9 Though I scatter them among the peoples, yet in distant lands they will remember me. They and their children will survive, and they will return. EZE 37:24 " `My servant David will be king over them, and they will all have one shepherd. They will follow my laws and be careful to keep my decrees. 25 They will live in the land I gave to my servant Jacob, the land where your fathers lived. They and their children and their children's children will live there forever, and David my servant will be their prince forever. 26 I will make a covenant of peace with them; it will be an everlasting covenant. I will establish them and increase their numbers, and I will put my sanctuary among them forever. 27 My dwelling place will be with them; I will be their God, and they will be my people. 28 Then the nations will know that I the LORD make Israel holy, when my sanctuary is among them forever.' " The NT. Acts 2:38 Peter replied, "Repent and be baptised, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off--for all whom the Lord our God will call." The downside. 1SA 3:11 And the LORD said to Samuel: "See, I am about to do something in Israel that will make the ears of everyone who hears of it tingle. 12 At that time I will carry out against Eli everything I spoke against his family--from beginning to end. 13 For I told him that I would judge his family forever because of the sin he knew about; his sons made themselves contemptible, and he failed to restrain them. 14 Therefore, I swore to the house of Eli, `The guilt of Eli's house will never be atoned for by sacrifice or offering.' " Eli is held responsible for the loss of his children because he did not bring them up right. johnp.

No age limit Bob. The promise was made to me and is not dependent on the kids. johnp.

ic49. He did not surprise the five vigins. He sent a herald ahead of Him to wake up the sleepy Christians. Matt 25:> johnp.