johnP

Hello SharingTheGoodNews. Good to meet you. I must say your post requires much attention. I will give a fuller response tomorrow when I have decoded it. I take that to mean God raised Him from the dead. How do you handle; JN 2:18 Then the Jews demanded of him, "What miraculous sign can you show us to prove your authority to do all this?" JN 2:19 Jesus answered them, "Destroy this temple, and I will raise it again in three days." JN 2:20 The Jews replied, "It has taken forty-six years to build this temple, and you are going to raise it in three days?" 21 But the temple he had spoken of was his body. 22 After he was raised from the dead, his disciples recalled what he had said. Then they believed the Scripture and the words that Jesus had spoken. How could He rise Himself if He is not God? johnp.

Hello Leonard. I hope you are feeling better. I answered that. Believer's children are automatically included into Christ as part of the promise of God. They receive the circumcision of the heart and become members of true Israel. No outward sign is needed. They are marked by the Holy Spirit. Baptism does not replace circumcision because circumcision is still here. Eze 37:25 ...They and their children and their children's children will live there forever... johnp.

Fr Chuck. That is a very odd statement if you don't mind me saying so. To 'have to become a Jewish convert to become a Christian'. Do you mean the Christians who wanted to work the Jews in the temple. To work among the Jews circumcision aided them in the places they could go. They became like the Jew to save the Jew. Could we have some scripture on this teaching please. It is new to me. It is God that purifies not baptism; If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 1 John 1:9. stevehut. What validates a baptism? I think baptism should be understood first. I stand by what I said to begin with. Baptism is a bit of theatre with lots going on. God is watching us imitate the greatest act ever performed. The death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. So any baptism reminds the demons of their destiny. An awful practise. The CofE is guilty of this and say that it is good to get people into church. They have convinced the general population that all they need to do is turn up for their christening, their wedding and their funeral and they are hunky dory with His Nibs upstairs. Notice they are carried in at least twice. johnp.

Hello Melody. It's not for any to tell you. You are a child of God and report to Him directly. All we should do is tell you what we believe not decide for you. He will love you regardless of your choice. Relax, the clock is not running. That's because they come from the Reformation and hold to it's beliefs I think. They won't compromise their belief but if you get a hold of this yourself, know the subject inside out, you will be able to have years of fun arguing the point with the leadership. You might even change their mind because it should be changed. So was I but I got baptised as an adult after I became a Christian. My first Church was Calvinist but we did not baptise infants. johnp.

Hello SharingTheGoodNews. The "Mighty God" in Isaiah 9:6 is the same Mighty God in Isa 10:21 isn't He? We may have two of everything soon. The Everlasting Father. "My Lord and my God!" Thomas said to him, John 20:28. Firstborn was a title given, funnily enough, to the firstborn child. If that child was a girl and a brother came along later the title of firstborn was transferred to the boy. He would become firstborn even though he was not the first child. Firstborn means preeminent. The most important. ...`This is what the LORD says: Israel is my firstborn son... Ex 4:22. Israel was never the first created nation but it is firstborn. This is a difficult passage to deal with quickly. There is a subordination in the Godhead. This subordination has to with offices that are held and has nothing to do with the 'nature' of God. The same goes for, "...for the Father is greater than I." This is not a comparison of the nature of Christ and the Father but is a comparison between the position Jesus was in, as a man, and the position that the Father is in where He is. Greater does not mean better. HEB 1:5 For to which of the angels did God ever say, "You are my Son; today I have become your Father" ? John knew what Jesus was saying. John 5:18 For this reason the Jews tried all the harder to kill him; not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God. The Jews knew what Jesus was saying and condemned Him to death for it. John 10:33-39. "We are not stoning you for any of these," replied the Jews, "but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God." Matt 14:64 "You have heard the blasphemy. What do you think?" They all condemned him as worthy of death. God is One. If Jesus was not God He could not have raised Himself from the grave. johnp.

Hello Old Timer. I don't know this subject very well. Pre-trib say that the saints are taken away before the tribulation. What is the tribulation? Is that from Rev 6 and 7. Have I told you enough for you to give me a label? That would be helpful to know which camp I am in. I believe that we are here to the end. The final moment when Jesus comes back. I don't believe in a thousand year period as propounded by some. The millenium means something else rather than a period of time when saints and sinners will rub shoulders but I don't know what. Thanks. johnp.

Leonard. I have prayed for you. I have not thought you mean. Wrong but not mean. I hope mine does not come across mean to you either. We seem to be opposites. I've picked on your posts because they give me a good platform. I hope you don't mind. Looking back to the early Church is interesting and can be useful to a degree but we must not let them dictate our belief. Tradition must come from scripture alone. What we cannot prove to ourselves we should leave dormant. You can't get away with this assumption. There is the problem I think and the confusion stems from here. I don't believe baptism replaced circumcision. It is not right because circumcision done in the flesh was a type to show what God does in the heart. That is what includes us into the covenant, circmcision of the heart, not what is done in water. I believe God is revealing His glory to us in baptism because everytime it is enacted God is showing us what Jesus did. He is into the theatre of it and loves to see us imitating His Son. There is glory around the death and resurrection of Christ even when acted out by us. That is what I think baptism is about. God revealing His glory. Jesus even rehearsed it with John. I thought it was law. But the kid has no choice as it is with infant baptism. Concentrating on physical things is wrong. We are spiritual and all things happen in the spiritual realm for us. The circumcised one was included in the covenant which God made with the nation of Israel. This did not include him in the spiritual nation of Israel. Spiritual Israel is the reality and receive the inclusion by circumcision of the heart not the flesh. So if baptism is a replacement for circumsision then it only includes into the outward appearance of the church. As it was in Israel so it is in the Church. There are many that are not of Abraham in the Church. Baptism brings pleasure to God because He sees His children acting out the actions of their Big Brother. It's a rememberance. For the past two thousand years He has shown this to the fallen angels. Every minute of the day there is probably someone getting baptised somewhere. I bet this drives them round the twist. Believer's children are automatically included into Christ as part of the promise of God. The circumcision of the heart. No outward sign is needed. Eze 37:25 ...They and their children and their children's children will live there forever... Not so. The Baptists were around long before the Reformation. They joined the Reformation because of the persecution they got from their brothers over this issue. You can't get away with this either. We must make sure by scripture. The whole Church believed nothing of the sort. You mean those that persecuted the whole Church did not believe. They have no authority to dictate to us their erroneous views. All tradition must come under the light of the word by us. We must make sure. Yes if your conscience is troubling it must be quitened but we should be clear that the trouble is our conscience and not just other peoples. They can lay the law done so easy and it is so easy to cause a person confusion. There is no scriptural support for this statement is there? I can't think of where rebaptism is mentioned in the bible except where they had not heard of the Holy Spirit. From your point of view does that not make it a re-circumcision? johnp.

other one. Israel is surrounded by enemy countries but Jerusalem is not surrounded by armies. Too soon. Don't forget, when Jerusalem is surrounded by armies then nukes are included in this scenario. By way of interest. The sixth angel poured out his bowl on the great river Euphrates, and its water was dried up to prepare the way for the kings from the East. The Tigris and Euphrates can be turned off because of the dams along it. Turkey have the ability to do this by themselves. It might come about as a grab for resources or a false miracle to gee the troops up. If it is then we should still preach the word to all that will listen. God uses the scriptures to judge people as well as save them. Too soon I think. But is yet to blossom. It's an healthy tree though. Yes I am in full agreement with you. He did say He would be like a thief in the night. johnp.

That must have been a day! I thought it sound advice that you gave. johnp.

Hello dgolvach. I have not been into Revelation much so don't know all the different strands. From the cobbled together doctrine I have I believe that there is to be a seven year period at the end that will be split into two halfs. The beginning of the first 3 1/2 year period will be a time of recovery after an severe international crisis. I see Europe defending it's borders. Becoming federal but not by consent of the people and dominated by the Catholic countries, France, Poland, Spain, Eire, Italy, Portugal and Malta. With many members unable or unwilling to continue within the Community. The European Community I believe are the feet of that statue in Daniel. Such a mix of countries. Iron and clay. Chalk and cheese, French and English! HaHa! With Babylon in uproar, Israel back and under siege and with a real deadly war waging throughout the world it is soon I think. Something really bad is going to happen. But the strong will weather the storm and secure their safety and their needs. The beginning of the three 1/2 year period will be one of relief for the people involved. Hope for a better future and a trusting in men. I think when Jesus said, "It is not for you to know the times or dates the Father has set by his own authority. Acts 1:7. I don't believe that injunction was meant for all time. He will let us know with a certainty I am sure. It will be self evident and we have the Holy Spirit with us. The end is nigh! Looks odds on that the last pages of the bible will unfold before our eyes! Cool or what? We are going to shine like the stars. We may be the saints at the end of the bible. Our story may be in there. That's cool. johnp.

Leonard. Scriptural support needed here. Where are you starting that thread on baptism? johnp.

Hello Serendipity. What denomination are you? There is one Lord, one faith, one baptism. Ehp 4:5. Baptism of the Holy Spirit is the moment of salvation. Regeneration with the forgiveness of sins. The term is often used by some to mean an infilling of the Spirit of God. An outpouring of God became known as the Baptism of the Holy Spirit. I think it came from the Pentecostals and it is confusing. The problem should be addressed. Calvinists know it as an infilling or more like a deeper sense of God's presence. It's uplifting and tends to the overwhelming of one. Even us cold fish know it! I believe Calvin agreed to the doctrine that children should be baptised. Not as a way of salvation but a bringing into the membership of Christians much like the Israelites had circumcision as a sign of their nationhood. Since Calvin believed that the children of believers are saved they are included in Christ and as such should be baptised as a sign of their nationhood. I believe that is wrong. I believe that the children of believers are saved regardless of their actions. This is into their adulthood as well. The children of believers and their children are saved by the parents being saved. The only condition that we do not let them get out of control by disciplining them. But I do not believe baptism replaced circumcision Being Baptised or not being Baptised as a baby makes no difference to you. I got baptised because Jesus told me to be baptised. I was christened as a child by my non-Christian parents. I was going to say it should be done under the authority of your leadership but I don't think it does. A quick change of mind! Anything nice goes because this is a special personal time. I was responsible for making sure the baptism pool was filled and the water warmed for baptisms in my first Church. A labour of love. I baptised my eldest daughter and was asked to stay in the water while we baptised several youngsters. A great priveledge. Keep a clear conscience. I believe Leonard is in error with his advice. Forgive me for being blunt. My advice is that ...in the gospel a righteousness from God is revealed, a righteousness that is by faith from first to last, just as it is written: "The righteous will live by faith." Rom 1:17. To believe that Jesus died for your sins is faith. What does the Scripture say? "Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness." Rom 4:3. To believe in Jesus and go on giving your trust is faith and you can ask for more and more and keep getting it. We are in His loving arms. We do not need to seek Him. The obstacle between us and God was taken away on the cross, we have continuous direct contact with the Father. We do not need to seek Him but turn our gaze on Him. johnp.

Dave. That is maturity. As it was so shall it be. Look at Israel, the type for the Church. No difference there either. I think to get a good picture of the church it is to look at the type. It is very hard to tell the sheep from the goats. Good point, Why did God want it in then? But I believe Paul. I've come to know the man and would not expect a lie from him. He uses his experience to support his claim and I believe him. I am not a non-Christian and it does not increase my faith. What effect does it have on a non-Christian? None I would say. He is talking to the Church not evangelising. He says to his brothers and sisters a thing that is unprovable to the world but not to those who know him. Discernment tells me to believe him because I know he knows the truth. I know him. johnp.

Hello Scudbuddy. They knew her. She lived with them. I can imagine all the men knew her down the pub. She was one of the boys and so the women knew her too! Knew her very well. Imagine knowing a neighbour like that and she comes running proclaiming the arrival of the Messiah man! Announcing the arrival of Jesus. I've just realised that she, not Mary, was the second woman evangelist. She's got religion. Who her? You are right here but you can't extend that to people who are distant from each other. I overlook 'lucky' as a slip of the pen and easy to do. Fortunate is a word I have to keep rejecting myself. Jesus needs to do things because they are part of His plan. That's the only reason Jesus 'needs' to do anything. I believe God was putting on a show. He was revealing His glory right up front. How comes so many demon possessed people kept turning up? They are not stupid those demons. You would have thought they'd keep well away from the Son of God. God was revealing His glory and He works by cause and effect. Too many miracles would bring the natural system He created to it's knees. People that lived in most of the world had their own Gods. They did not need another but if one came along they might check it out. If he was more powerful then they would include him in their Pantheon. We had to go and tell them our God was killed! But He can still do this, the rising of the dead and the healing of the sick. The word is established now. The story understood and acceptable. People have a point of reference and many witnesses testify to it's truth. Who knows why He does anything? Each generation must weigh all things for themselves. I am appalled by the lack of understanding I see around me but I do not say this generation but those close by, they are for me to judge. Every generation goes through this. Proof? If they do not believe what Moses wrote how they going to believe what you say? It must be verifiable for me to praise the Lord for it otherwise it goes on the self towards the back. It must not become frustrating Scudbuddy. It is God that teaches and He does as He pleases through us. He convinces, not us. Elijah was just like you. Only if verifiable. It would not increase my faith. I believe God rather works through cause and effect and He likes it like that because that is the system He chose. I don't think He chooses to ignore it but whenever He wants He does. It does not increase my faith though. That is God's job. To harden or soften. It's our job to pray for a strong Church. You have that duty and so does Neb. We all do. To speak the truth we have. To contend. He could explain it all to us in a second but He wants us to grow together. We should trust Jesus to direct the Holy Spirit. He is changing all of us at His pace. johnp.

You mean unimportant? Then you would be wrong. What was their testimony Scudbuddy. I don't think it was their own testimony, the testimony of things they done but what they believed. Their confession of faith. Their testimony was Jesus Christ and Him crucified. I don't disbelieve your witness of what you have seen. That would not be right as I have come to know you a bit. I don't believe the witness of a second person that you pass on but I am not called to. I believe that God still works as He ever did. '...we do not see Paul trying to eliminate or limit the gifts... is indisputable. He never hinted at any gifts would vanish. In fact the thought that God would give a gift and then take it away again leaves my salvation in doubt. He may take that away as well. If it is a gift it belongs to us. But nowhere does it say that faith will be produced by telling anyone of your experience. What that would mean is that your words save. To see family or friends being healed is useful in evangelism but it must be direct and verifiable and then it is only an aid. It is the word of God that converts and nothing else. Gets complicated don't it? Absolutely right but you keep sending me into one camp then you send me into another. If I believe miracles are at a low ebb does that make me cessationist? Nothing else has been offered I think. Your miles ahead but you rely too much on what you have seen and that detracts from the scriptural evidence. When you say people's eyeballs have been put back in it is too incredulous to take your word for. I believe the Creator can do as He pleases but this I have to see with my own eyeballs. Mind you, I think I shall retract an earlier boast of mine and give the title over to you and Neb. I must say Neb that is an impressively long post. You could get that donkey up and walking long before me! johnp.

Hello Botz. I used to know a man that read all the biographies of the great men of faith, great men will do. He lapped it up and thought everyone calling themselves Christian should behave like they did. He failed to see that these books concentrate on the persons acheivements and not the other 99% of their lives. Now there is no way you can substantiate this statement and there is no way I can prove it wrong. But I think it unreasonable to imagine the early Church operated like this if you mean the whole Church all the time. They would have run out of demons to cast out pretty fast and sick to heal! Then they would not be doing it. So they would not be operating as you say. What this does is pull the Church down. It does not edify and you can't be certain of your statement. You have your failings don't you? We are here to learn from each other. To help each other and to lift the Church high. You only put peoples backs up this way. I have learnt from this topic. I have started to push the eldership of my Church to take their healing ministry seriously. I will not use your words to do it because I find them judgemental. Right may be but wrong. johnp.

Called. But you could serve to moderate your side, to pour oil onto troubled waters. I do not hesitate to correct a Calvinist when he goes too far. (Or anybody else now I think of it). All the children will be saved you are right in saying that. It is my belief as I have come to believe through scripture. There are good people? Sinless? No one is sinless therefore no one is good. That is a very strange thing to say if you don't mind me saying so. Now if I was the kind of Christian that got offended I would get offended at that. Take a chance? You judge me from a distance do you not? Just what would I be taking a chance over? The only chancy thing I do is trust that Jesus died for my sins. Only there am I out on a limb me dear. That is as far as I go in testifying about myself. Do not concern yourself Debbie, my assurance is beyond measure like our kin of the Reformation. There I go testifying about myself again. Ten's of thousands of our brothers and sisters were butchered for this and they passed it to me. I can take a few knocks. My church is small, about twentyfive or so with as many kids. Many of the congregation have parents who are Calvinist and none of them are, their families put them off it! I've met some of their parents and can understand why in some. If any get the scriptures wrong then law rises it's head and life ends up, " ISA 28:10 For it is: Do and do, do and do, rule on rule, rule on rule; a little here, a little there." Instead of; "ISA 28:11 Very well then, with foreign lips and strange tongues God will speak to this people, ISA 28:12 to whom he said, "This is the resting place, let the weary rest"; and, "This is the place of repose"-- but they would not listen. And that is where I intend to stay and call people into God's rest from there, the Sabbath for those He calls. Peace. The rest to the weary. Instead of; ISA 28:13 So then, the word of the LORD to them will become: Do and do, do and do, rule on rule, rule on rule; a little here, a little there-- so that they will go and fall backward, be injured and snared and captured. I really fail to understand how trusting in Jesus can lead to a false sense of security. I don't trust in OSAS but in the One that said it. He died for my sins and will complete the work He started. That I trust, His word I trust. No it doesn't always. So then, the word of the LORD to them will become: Do and do, do and do, rule on rule, rule on rule; a little here, a little there-- so that they will go and fall backward, be injured and snared and captured. Because you do not believe Jesus died for your sins. If you believed Jesus died for your sins then what can you go to Hell for? Since Jesus did die for my sins what can God do, extract punishment twice for the same crime? You charge God with this? We cannot give up what does not exist. Look at Peter doing the same thing and getting away with it. But Judas' Father was not Peter's. Peter's Father loved him with an everlasting love like He loves us. How could our lover from the Song of Songs live without us. He loved me and gave Himself for me so that I could be with Him and He with me. Nothing gets in our way. Nothing can separate us. You have no say in it anyway. Your parents saved you. You turn your back anytime you want it is your parents that received the promise; They will live in the land I gave to my servant Jacob, the land where your fathers lived. They and their children and their children's children will live there forever, and David my servant will be their prince forever. You try to win a point but lose it because you say that you can do better than our Mother and Father, Adam and Eve, that you can do better in our enviroment than they could in their enviroment. That will be the day as they say. How does that work out? We are sinners they weren't. Thank you for your concern. I am not being sarcastic. (It might come over like that). And I have a concern for my brothers and sisters as well. That is why I am talking to you. It gives me the oppotunity to talk about Jesus and to meet many others. We should all be concerned about each other. To put others before ourselves. I am here to serve the faith of God's elect and to serve the knowledge that leads to Godliness. I believe only Calvinism can lead us out of captivity because I believe Calvinism reflects His glory and stands us on the Rock. It is scriptural and a found me out. He came for me and died for me and He says He is coming back for me and will be with me forever. Great. I believe Him. "...not even the threat of death." Peter said that be careful. I am sure about one thing. I am not sure about me. I put my trust in no man, especially myself. I know myself too well. And I thank you very much for it. I think it a nice thing to do. You have also given me another oppotunity to teach my teach and for that I thank you. Philippians 3:9 and be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ--the righteousness that comes from God and is by faith. I have jumped from the bridge, I have set my course, I have taken a leap and I have jumped into His arms. My prayer is that others come and do likewise. johnp.

Who said the originals were perfect scud old buddy. Is this assumption I see before me? In Christ. johnp.

I am going to be a bit slow because of other commitments but I will reply to all. Jake. It's good to know you were in good health! When was going to church a sign of being a Christian? Why should I read a book. I think there are too many books. I might read the wrong one. So he is a Calvinist? Where's the quote? That is just your word. I did not say that. I said I'd been to his site and read his statement of faith. I then asked 'where is this living with the Devil?' You say you have heard him but still you do not substantiate your claim. When bringing a charge against anyone you must substantiate it or bring dishonour on yourself. Let's get real here. I don't know most people who believe OSAS. Not always. When you are assembled in the name of our Lord Jesus and I am with you in spirit, and the power of our Lord Jesus is present, 5 hand this man over to Satan, so that the sinful nature may be destroyed and his spirit saved on the day of the Lord. 1 Cor 5:4-5. Who are you to judge? What does the Scripture say? "Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness." Rom 4:3, Gal 3:6, James 2:23. COL 2:13 When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your sinful nature, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins, 14 having canceled the written code, with its regulations, that was against us and that stood opposed to us; he took it away, nailing it to the cross. 15 And having disarmed the powers and authorities, he made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross. Since the law is of no effect in condemning Christians on what principle can we go to Hell? Why have you brought this Stanley into this conversation? johnp.

nice one "Stop grumbling among yourselves," Jesus answered. John 6:43 just spotted it John 6:44 is right. john

Hello Born Again. You are saying that a Christian can be lost by using 2 Peter 2:20. Am I wrong? I asked how you can believe that in the light of John 6:43 where Jesus says, "No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him, and I will raise him up at the last day. johnp.

Caught you as well Bob? johnp

Sorry Tess. I should have answered your first post. I don't think this will last long. Just this bit then I'm off the subject I think. Thanks. It's still a work but God performs it for us. JN 6:28 Then they asked him, "What must we do to do the works God requires?" JN 6:29 Jesus answered, "The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent." Eph 2:8-9. For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith--and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God-- 9 not by works, so that no one can boast. Not by our works that is. Ok?

Bob. Now you have flipping started! What's going on? Well blow me down! Where have I done this? Prove Calvin wrong on scripture. I can. You show where he was wrong and you will not be misrepresenting anyone. Statements like that let you down. Where do you think mine are from? johnp.

Dime. Why bring it up? What's it got to do with our conversation? Charles Stanley. I have just been to his website and checked out his statement of faith. There are bits below; God the Holy Spirit: Every believer is called to live in the power of the indwelling Holy Spirit so that he will not fulfill the lust of the flesh but will bear fruit to the glory of God. (John 3:3-8; 14:16-17; 16:7-11; 1 Corinthians 12:7-11, 13; Ephesians 4:30; 5:18) Salvation. All who so trust the Savior are forgiven of their sins and born into the family of God by the regenerating work of the Holy Spirit. (John 1:12; Acts 16:30-33; Romans 10:9-10; Ephesians 1:7; 2:8-9) The Christian Walk. Individuals must choose to keep the flesh in subjection to Jesus Christ through the power of the Holy Spirit, or it will surely manifest its presence in life and dishonor our Lord. (Romans 6:11-13; 8:2, 4, 12-13; Galatians 5:16-23; Ephesians 4:22-24; Colossians 2:1-10; 1 Peter 1:14-16; 1 John 1:4-7; 3:5-9) http://www.intouch.org/inside/about_us/statement_76838.html Is that the right Charles Stanley? Now where is this living with the Devil? What are you trying to say? I could come up with countless dozens for you if you want them but what are you trying to say? Is Stanley a Calvinist? Of course faith is a work. Where do you store knowledge if it is not in your head? It does not matter how you accept salvation but if you do you must believe Jesus died for your sins. How do you believe if not through the knowledge in your noggin? No Jake I did not ask that; I asked, "What happens to your forgiven sins. Do you get them restored to your credit or do you start with a clean slate?" johnp.