asper

I think then that others are connecting you to that video and assume that is your position. Sort of a human thing to do. I put the - there to avoid the big video popping on screen. That is ABC Nightline. I find it more objective. Have fun. Jesus Is Lord. hi mike, let's go to the main event first. they said that it did not valadate the claims of tongue speaking. even (i guess the pastor) the one believer said the same thing. further tests have to be done evidently in the area of thinking before you speak as opposed to not thinking before you speak. i wonder what would show up if you were singing a song you knew very well and did not have to think about it when singing. other point, i cannot bring myself to care about other people's opinions and actions.i have more important things to do.. Galatians 1:10 For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ. Matthew 7:16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? 17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. 19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. 20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them. 21 ¶ Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Absolutely, I do see your point. The evidence on video would be valid. Even if the person liked the police or not. Do we use the video to prove that All police are bad though? Or Do we use the video to see a problem with better training, and weeding out bad police, where the whole is valid with some things needing fixed? Jesus Is Lord. i see the problem, you think that i see all tongue speakers as bad. that is not the case. the second thing that you are assuming is that i am trying to prove tongues don't exist today. that is not the case either. all i want is some honest discussion about the evidence for or against certain topics. if i did want to disprove tongues exist today i would certainly be alot more aggresive and persistant in my amount of posts and information provided. what i don't like about some of the (some) posters here is that they use common cult practices to silence thier (supposed enemy) challenger. Character assassination, Peer pressure, Denial (that’s not what it means or your conclusions are crazy) Surprise (you believe what!) Presentation of opinions instead of facts (making themselves the authority) And so on. so perhaps you can see my point.

What I think is that we need to be honest. There was a scientific study done on tongues, hosted by all people ABC News. In that study of all different types of tongues, it was the "Charismatic" Group that "Claimed" To be filled with the Holy Spirit that produced brain wave patterns not found in any type of religious Tongues. It showed them that at least, something was very strange and different about it, while all the others languages tested the same brain responses. This was a study done for a Network that on the most part could care less about God. It makes it more valid. It was done by scientist that did not believe one way or the other, they really set out to prove it's all the same. Your posted video is done by a group that is against those that speak in tongues. Now I know you can be honest, and see that for what it is............... It makes it not even worth looking at. There is a reason for Jury selection. They attempt.......... "Should attempt" to get the most unbiased people possible. That is just how it works, or should work. Biased means false judgement. I tried to explain it as simple as possible, if you still don't agree, then at least try to see what I am looking at. Jesus Is Lord. hi mike, when you jump to jurry selection that is where you go wrong. evidence is presented to the jury from whatever source and then they would determine if the evidence was creditable. someone saying something about someone is not evidence. let's say someone who doesn't like police officers takes a film of police brutality the evidence is still submitted. why? because it is on film. it really doesn't matter the opinion of the one taking the film. i am being honest. don't you see what i am saying?

Grace Jude 1:4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

Did you mention my name? You can't control other people in how they post or what they say. Your experience sounds off the wall. That, would be YOUR problem...not anyone elses' ok then...

from a scientific perspective, any "Evidence" that claims to be found has to do so without an agenda. The video's posted have a agenda against a certain group of people. So, all their evidence becomes worthless in proving anything. They would have no ability in themselves to look for opposite evidence. That makes them fools. Acai Berry is a very awesome fruit. It has shown at the university of Florida to actually kill cancer cells. That is evidence. Claims that it can help you lose weight, and kill cancer in your body. Make you super healthy, is only claims by many of those that exploit this berry to make money. They have an agenda, so any claim is foolish. Is the berry healthy for you? Yes. Are there other things that are cheaper and just as powerful in antioxidants then the expensive Acai Berry? YES!!!!! Junk evidence will not point that out however, because the Agenda is in the way. The video's mean nothing except to let us know there are still foolish, and ignorant people around who have nothing better to do. Jesus Is Lord. Hi mike, I think you are mistaken with your definition ev·i·dence    /ˈɛvɪdəns/ Show Spelled [ev-i-duhns] Show IPA noun, verb, ev·i·denced, ev·i·denc·ing. noun 1. that which tends to prove or disprove something; ground for belief; proof. 2. something that makes plain or clear; an indication or sign: His flushed look was visible evidence of his fever. 3. Law . data presented to a court or jury in proof of the facts in issue and which may include the testimony of witnesses, records, documents, or objects. from dictionary.com

What are you now? baptist, some would call me calvinistic, i would be closest to spurgeon in beliefs. so what are you?

The videos are not IN context so making a judgment out of context is like someone seeing you at a magazine rack looking at a computer mag right beside the Playboy mag. The reason we have the Bible to is KNOW what is acceptable and what is not. It's also the reason we have teachers. Please stop using the RC church to point out bad habits. I was RC and yes they have a lot of BAD habits. However there are many RC's who are truly born again believers. You have no way of knowing what is acceptable to me unless I tell you, and I didn't tell you the links you provided were acceptable behaviour, because I wasn't there. I don't make judgment calls based on videos. Just remember when you point a finger at someone saying they are the problem or have a problem, there are three of your own fingers pointing back at yourself. It’s all evidence and it doesn’t matter what context because there is no context where this is acceptable. Just in case I missed something let me ask you where would this conduct be acceptable? Of course if you did not watch them how would you know? The mention about the rc is because you questioned my link about many belief systems. Quote, I read the link you provided and it is full of unsupported assertions, from someone I have never personally heard of, or for whose credentials I can validate. unquote So I used some personal experiences to show my point. Please try to pay attention… They are indications of how some people use speaking in tongues. Like I said I wasn't there so I can't know what the context was and neither do you obviously. Your lack of understanding or even having a correct perspective to assess these videos, invalidates your conclusions. Yes I guess I did observe that you seem to have not been able to settle on one belief. Like I said, I read the link. Not ALL of it, but enough to know where this guy was going, and to assess he was wrong. That is the benefit of knowing Christ as your Saviour and knowing God's Word. Please resist the urge to get snotty.... I don't need to address your posts you know. Please spare me. I gave one witty remark. Sorry Mr. innocent. Continuing on, There are videos there not just words. Hence evidence. As far as your opinion of me it just shows your inability to respond to me with evidence instead of just opinions, yours and others I assume.

After some heavy computer calculations with my awesome computer, and waiting 3 days for the answer to finally print out. I can now confirm that God never changed, the Holy Spirit never changed, and The gifts are alive and well. Jesus Is Lord. hi mike, what computer program do you happen to be using?

my bold in quote, hi fez, thanks for a strait answer. so why associate with people that walk disorderly? Because Jesus did. 2 Timothy 4:2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine. 3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; 4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. 1 Timothy 5:20 Them that sin rebuke before all, that others also may fear.

i would not call that evidence

my bold in quote, hi fez, thanks for a strait answer. so why associate with people that walk disorderly?

hi matthitjah, is that can't or don't? of course you are entitled to your opinions just make them prove you are wrong by using facts instead of just giving thier opinions.

hi interplanner, great post. 1 Corinthians 14:21 In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord. can this be taken two ways?

The videos are not IN context so making a judgment out of context is like someone seeing you at a magazine rack looking at a computer mag right beside the Playboy mag. The reason we have the Bible to is KNOW what is acceptable and what is not. It's also the reason we have teachers. Please stop using the RC church to point out bad habits. I was RC and yes they have a lot of BAD habits. However there are many RC's who are truly born again believers. You have no way of knowing what is acceptable to me unless I tell you, and I didn't tell you the links you provided were acceptable behaviour, because I wasn't there. I don't make judgment calls based on videos. Just remember when you point a finger at someone saying they are the problem or have a problem, there are three of your own fingers pointing back at yourself. It’s all evidence and it doesn’t matter what context because there is no context where this is acceptable. Just in case I missed something let me ask you where would this conduct be acceptable? Of course if you did not watch them how would you know? The mention about the rc is because you questioned my link about many belief systems. Quote, I read the link you provided and it is full of unsupported assertions, from someone I have never personally heard of, or for whose credentials I can validate. unquote So I used some personal experiences to show my point. Please try to pay attention…

Hi stan, and sevenseas, Change the subject all you want I can still focus on the point. The point being (for those who need help) is there are many people of different beliefs and there are those who make a mockery out of God. The videos are one proof of people making a mockery out of God. The proof of different beliefs lie in the following, When I was a roman catholic charismatic I went to the meeting along with other roman catholic charismatics who also spoke in tongues also. Most prayed to mary almost exclusively. Mary received most of their worship by their adoration and the way they talked. So you can act ignorant of these things which would make me conclude that you guys are not very observant or that you are just ignoring the facts. The question I have then is, the behavior that the videos showed of your groups, is that acceptable to you guys/girls. If it is then all I have to say is that you guys/girls are the ones with the problem

All this is, is Pentecostal bashing. You don't understand it so you bash it...just like the Pharisees did to Jesus. hi stan, i am glad that i don't understand the actions in these videos. btw i used to be a roman catholic charismatic and spoke in tongues... how does that sit with you?

Since I had a couple of remarks about the other link I decided to give another one. I think the question is not “if tongues exist today” but the real questions is what in the world is going on here? http://www.bible.ca/tongues-audio-video-documentation.htm#tacf

i don't remember anyone ever telling me that but if you could find a source then let me know.

We have no timetable as to when the gifts stopped in the body, but I would guess it was when man took over the church and kicked God out. That started around 300 AD, give or take a few years. hi onelight, i have searched for this but there are many groups that are putting up conflicting information. if i find anything i'll let you know

Who are the 'those' you mention? My experience is 90% are, but then again I don't worship at places that DON'T believe in 'tongues' and their legitimate uses within the church. Have you documented this kind of person? How do you know that some speak in tongues that have never received the infilling of the Holy Spirit? I only KNOW about Christian belief. What exactly do you KNOW? I'm going to assume you are asking from a Christian perspective, as any other perspective would be pointless. Do you also question the validity of other people's salvation? I can't see this tact being very unproductive in fostering a better sense of Christian acceptance and tolerance. I read the link you provided and it is full of unsupported assertions, from someone I have never personally heard of, or for whose credentials I can validate. I do note the church you attend and have to ask myself, just exactly what is your motivation here? Do you accept that the speaking in tongues of the NT exists today and is relevant, or is it your intention to cause doubt as to it's current day applicability? Hi stan, Interesting response. I had left a link for a reference so you can either refute it with some facts or just have a fit.. The rest of your response really doesn’t say anything otherwise I would respond… By the way, they were questions as indicated by the question marks.

hi mike, if i were to guess, these passages are to the nation israel. and this verse would explain them. Matthew 21:43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof. here is a link about john lake, http://www.letusreas...g/Popteac41.htm

care to elaborate?

Why did tongues disappear for well over a thousand years and then suddenly reappear? Is there some indication in Scripture that this would happen?

Then why does Acts 2:4 link the activity of the Spirit with the speaking, while 2:5 suggests no such Spirit activity with the hearing? That is not what Scripture says. I wonder what sort of utterances you perceive as "babblings." I've heard a lot of tongues-speaking. None ever sounded significantly more babble-like than, e.g., people speaking Chinese or Spanish in very rapid-fire fashion, or cantors chanting Latin or Greek or Hebrew. The testimony of Acts 2, 10, 19, 1 Cor. 14, Col. 3:16, Eph. 5:19 & 6:18, and Jude 1:20 is that praying, praising, and singing in tongues is fine even in public, even uninterpreted, as long as it doesn't lead to tumult. In a church prone to disorder, Paul's rules in 1 Cor. 14 are useful. It is equally true that anyone can claim to be prophesying. If you mean they were necessary for preaching the Gospel, you have things backwards. There is no Biblical evidence of tongues ever being used to preach. There was no need. Most people were functional polyglots. In Jerusalem at Pentecost, everyone present would have been at least conversant in either Greek or Aramaic, or both. Many also spoke their own native languages. Some would have had working knowledge of either Latin or OT Hebrew. Beyond Jerusalem, anyone living in a region that was part of the Roman Empire would have had working knowledge of Greek. It would have been rare to encounter a potential convert and not have anyone in the missionary group who could translate. If uninterpreted tongues-speaking in non-private situations is ALWAYS undesirable, then Acts 2, 10, and 19 were all "out of order." Since Paul was personally present at the last of those, Luke should have recorded him rebuking the Ephesians for their disorderly behavior. Hi norin radd, Been looking over some responses and ran across your reference to the following verses and something puzzled me. Ephesians 5:19 Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord; Ephesians 6:18 Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints; Colossians 3:16 Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord. Jude 1:20 But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost, Where is tongues mentioned in these verses?